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ChubbyChecker posted:some people hate tolkien for his racism and classism, and some hate lewis for his racism, misogynism and jesus lions I doubt either of these are common sentiments. Both are a stretch.
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# ? Apr 30, 2020 14:50 |
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# ? May 6, 2024 04:14 |
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Tosk posted:I made this point a page or two ago and someone already voiced their disagreement then, but I think people feel more let down by Bakker than some other fantasy authors because the first trilogy was really good. Yes, with all the important caveats that jump immediately to mind, but nonetheless, it was some solid fantasy. I enjoyed the first trilogy and had no problem with the "good guys lose" ending, but the second trilogy was just a mess. Only a few of the various plots really went anywhere or mattered at all, which made for a really unsatisfying ending in a different way than I think Bakker was aiming for.
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# ? Apr 30, 2020 15:09 |
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Cardiac posted:I am mostly curious why people are so upset about Bakker and the books since there are plenty of mediocre fantasy written by authors with questionable opinions out there that people don’t get upset about. He wrote about sex. It's as simple as that. Amethyst posted:I doubt either of these are common sentiments. Both are a stretch. They're pretty common and not really a stretch. Tolkien wrote about good, tall, long-lived pure-blooded Numenoreans and little-Englander hobbits (apologies for the lack of appropriate accents, my new computer is annoying) fighting evil Southerners/Easterners and ugly, uneducated-sounding, man-eating orcs. Yes, he subverted that occasionally, but it's a pretty big part of his books, Lord of the Rings in particular. Lewis wrote about good Christians and devil-worshipping Muslim-a-likes, and the last Narnia book includes Susan's being excluded from Heaven because she discovered lipsticks and nylons, if I remember the line correctly. They were fundamentally white Edwardian men, it's no wonder people today take issue with their ideas on race, sex, and class. As for the Jesus lion, nuff said.
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# ? Apr 30, 2020 16:27 |
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Lmao if you think racism in Narnia is a stretch, please re-read Horse and his Boy or Last Battle sometime
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# ? Apr 30, 2020 16:40 |
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Safety Biscuits posted:
You hate lions or something?
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# ? Apr 30, 2020 17:00 |
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I’m talking hating Tolkien, not writing about Edwardian views on race in general. Acting like lotr is a racial manifesto because it was written in the early 29th c is very dumb, sorry.
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# ? Apr 30, 2020 20:19 |
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Amethyst posted:I’m talking hating Tolkien, not writing about Edwardian views on race in general. Acting like lotr is a racial manifesto because it was written in the early 29th c is very dumb, sorry. No, it's a pretty obvious reading, albeit not the best one. Crimpolioni posted:You hate lions or something? I'm a zebra.
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# ? May 1, 2020 04:43 |
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There are no good or bad readings. There is bad writing, like Bakker or Tolkien.
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# ? May 1, 2020 08:19 |
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I'd agree the first trilogy was actually sold fantasy with some interesting and unusual ideas. A solid editor might have kept Bakker to that and curbed some of his body horror moments with a reality of check of 'why do you keep writing about all these people enjoying being raped? Or more importantly why is the major focus of the horror Howe much they're enjoying it rather than just... The rape?' gently caress I'd have been fine with the ending we've got if it had clearly been an ending. Instead we get a few possible threads being raised, the good guys otherwise losing the battle and the No God appears.
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# ? May 2, 2020 11:14 |
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Amethyst posted:I doubt either of these are common sentiments. Both are a stretch. both are common sentiments and not stretches
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# ? May 3, 2020 14:00 |
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No they aren’t. Checkmate.
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# ? May 4, 2020 06:07 |
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I know it’s a cool internet thing to do to butt into conversations asserting that everyone knows a popular thing is morally reprehensible and racist, but I’ll let you in on a secret: no one gives a poo poo about your inane bullshit. No one.
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# ? May 4, 2020 06:09 |
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Oh wow you managed to interpret elves as perfect Aryan super men? Incredible. Can’t wait to hear all about how the criminals speak with regional accents and are basically an open throated endorsement of social Darwinism. Did you ever notice that super saiyans in dragon ball have blonde hair by the way?? Messed up. It’s really, super important you post this all over the place, get the message out.
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# ? May 4, 2020 06:11 |
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The only non-dumbass forum link for the google search “Tolkien racist” is a professor of children’s literature saying that no, tolkein isn’t racist in any meaningful sense. Not a common sentiment. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? May 4, 2020 06:17 |
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So what you're saying is... it's a common sentiment, you just ignored all of it except for one professor, responding to the common sentiment, says otherwise.
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# ? May 6, 2020 21:40 |
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Stop bumping this to continue the idiotic argument. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? May 7, 2020 13:20 |
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Amethyst posted:Stop bumping this to continue the idiotic argument. Please don't do this. Content: I will forever be bummed that the "what if the god is actually a helicopter" didn't go anywhere because it was a genuinely awesome idea. Put more high tech into low tech settings please.
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# ? May 7, 2020 13:31 |
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StrixNebulosa posted:Please don't do this. Book 1 has the No-God loudly screaming WHAT AM I? and 6 books later we still don't know. Heron Spear should have been a bazooka, tbh.
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# ? May 7, 2020 14:04 |
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Bakker wrote a series so edgy that the main villain identified as an attack helicopter like ten years before that was a transphobic joke
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# ? May 7, 2020 14:08 |
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I get sad every time I see a new post in this thread because it reminds me I read every single one of these goddamn books
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# ? May 7, 2020 16:39 |
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It genuinely saddens me that this series started with an interesting concept of the horror of an objective non materialist morality system, humans as biological machinery, magic as differential ways of understanding and shaping reality and ended up with a cannibal rape fest, an Empire Strikes back ending and a dragon screaming 'I smell cunny!'
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# ? May 8, 2020 10:23 |
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# ? May 6, 2024 04:14 |
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MrNemo posted:It genuinely saddens me that this series started with an interesting concept of the horror of an objective non materialist morality system, humans as biological machinery, magic as differential ways of understanding and shaping reality and ended up with a cannibal rape fest, an Empire Strikes back ending and a dragon screaming 'I smell cunny!'
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# ? May 10, 2020 23:59 |