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nivdes posted:Annual premiums were much higher than the penalty for the vast, vast majority of people my dude That doesn't matter healthcare usable my dude
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May 2, 2020 00:23
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Lemming posted:Encouraging Biden to remain in the race by advocating for people to vote for him increases the chances of Trump getting re-elected because the Democratic base isn't going to be excited about voting in a loving rapist Yeah, there has to be a point where too many people are vocal about not voting Biden and the party changes course. I don't know if we got that point but we won't find out if people don't at least say they will withhold their vote. Like, just lie. Plan to vote for him but tell people you won't and try to get the party to fix this.
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May 2, 2020 00:24
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Gumball Gumption posted:Sure, here's some https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/02/scientists-for-trump/516033/ Oh, oh. Either I didn't realize you were talking about a physicist and not a climate scientist, or you were being intentionally vague about it. Here's what the physicist you are pointing to has to say about climate change: quote:“I don’t agree with all the hysteria about climate change,” And the other scientists cited in the article are mathematicians, epidemiologists, meteorologists, an experimental psychologist from Oklahoma, and a guy who is the Director of the Center for the Study of Science at the Cato Institute  OK, so you don't have any examples of climate scientists who say "Vote for Trump." ? e: also you are saying I am "appealing to authority" by looking to see if any climate scientists think Trump is better for the climate than Biden. Uh...yes?? How are u fucked around with this message at 00:28 on May 2, 2020 |
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May 2, 2020 00:26
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Brownhat posted:They have a pile of legitimate reasons to pressure him to drop out, but they don't even want him to. I don't think the opinions of forum poster "How are u" (Or any of us, honestly) are going to suddenly cause them to reconsider. I mean yeah of course, I'm trying to argue with someone who inexplicably believes the Democratic party has any integrity. My point is that even with his hosed up logic, it STILL doesn't make any sense to advocate for voting for Biden.
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May 2, 2020 00:26
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If you guys really agreed that Biden is a lovely candidate who should drop out, you wouldn’t make dozens of posts loving shilling for him and berating people who dislike him
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May 2, 2020 00:26
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Hellblazer187 posted:So, I'm not saying I'm there yet, but this is the line of inquiry I'm bringing up. Clinton signed welfare reform when Reagan and Bush couldn't get it done. Buy in from the democratic president made it a possibility. Republicans unilaterally doing it was not tenable. My fear with a Biden administration is that the same thing will happen with Social Security and/or Medicare. I'm not saying "this is what will happen" if Biden is President. But, given the history with Clinton gutting welfare, and Biden's comments on Social Security and or Medicare over the course of his career, it seems more likely we get a "bipartisan" Social Security cut under a Biden presidency than under a Trump presidency. Trump with a Democratic house is in some respects more dangerous than Biden with a GOP house, but in some respects less dangerous as well. LGD posted:its quite likely You two remember in 2005 when Dubbya put forward an initiative to privatize Social Security? Do you think Trump wouldn’t try that poo poo again, given his infatuation with the stock market, if he’s elected to another term? Also, if the Obama led initiative you’re thinking of is the same one I remember, there was increased payroll tax and a reduction in benefits in that bill, the Republicans balked at the former, the Dems the latter, hence... dead in the water.
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May 2, 2020 00:26
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How are u posted:Oh, oh. Either I didn't realize you were talking about a physicist and not a climate scientist, or you were being intentionally vague about it. Here's what the physicist you are pointing to has to say about climate change: Oh, I thought you were being sincere and was trying to be cool but you're still trying to back me into a gotcha on something I didn't say and wasn't the point I was making. gently caress off.
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May 2, 2020 00:27
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How are u posted:By "taking action" do you mean "refuse to vote for a Democrat" ? Joe Biden doesn't need your vote to win, Trump will lose in a landslide not seen since 84. Given that, why are you voting for Joe Biden?
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May 2, 2020 00:31
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Scientist Al Gore posted:I wouldn't agree with that either but the overwhelming majority climate scientists don't view a Biden presidency as such. Being a climate scientist does not mean you're good at judging politicians or political promises. The argument you're making requires two pieces of information: - Evidence that the *explicit* elements of Biden's stated plan would have a significant positive effect - Evidence that there's any reason to trust that Biden will do any of these things Both of these are problems. 2 is the most obvious; climate scientists are not even remotely any sort of experts in this area and there is literally nothing but reasons to not trust Biden. His entire career is quite literally indistinguishable from a Republican's in this regard. That being said, 1 is also a big issue. Climate scientists are free to read whatever they want into vague claims that we'll try to reduce emissions by X date. To use Biden's website's climate plan as an example, it is full of imprecise language that can freely be interpreted into whatever the listener wants to believe. For example (from Biden's climate plan on his website): quote:Ensure the U.S. achieves a 100% clean energy economy and reaches net-zero emissions no later than 2050. On day one, Biden will sign a series of new executive orders with unprecedented reach that go well beyond the Obama-Biden Administration platform and put us on the right track. And, he will demand that Congress enacts legislation in the first year of his presidency that: 1) establishes an enforcement mechanism that includes milestone targets no later than the end of his first term in 2025, 2) makes a historic investment in clean energy and climate research and innovation, 3) incentivizes the rapid deployment of clean energy innovations across the economy, especially in communities most impacted by climate change. Sounds good, right? If I were a naive climate scientist, I could definitely see myself projecting all my hopes and dreams onto things like "establish enforcement with milestones no later than 2025" or "make a historic investment in clean energy." Unfortunately, for people who aren't total rubes (or more generously "normal people who don't pay attention to this stuff as much as we do"), nearly everything listed there is completely open to interpretation. What enforcement mechanics? What milestones? How much investment (he's actually given a figure on this, but it's pathetic and literally 1/10 of what Sanders proposed)? And that's generous. If I were being less generous (and probably more realistic) I'd realize that "clean energy" probably includes stuff like natural gas, and that "innovations" should be a red flag any time it's given heavy focuses in contexts like this. The rest is actually worse than the part I quoted and as far as I can tell includes literally no specifics outside of "rejoin the Paris Agreement." I actually have more sympathy for the things you're saying here that my tone is letting on, but it's frustrating for those of us who have been following this stuff long enough to immediately notice when a politician isn't any sort of ally. The liberal politician playbook on these things is to always just "acknowledge and study, but don't do anything." Under Biden, we'll continue to 'seriously study the impact of climate change and innovations that might help fight it." Nothing will actually be done beyond this, but liberals will be able to point to it as "the thing that makes them different from the GOP." Stuff like this is actually what makes the Democrats particularly insidious; they act as a pressure release valve that makes the left think that their concerns are being acknowledged. How are u posted:OK, so you don't have any examples of climate scientists who say "Vote for Trump." ? The argument that poster used isn't the one I'd go with on this. The issue here isn't that climate scientists are wrong about climate science; it's that they don't have political judgement any better than a layperson*. As I mention above, Democrats like Biden use language that can be freely interpreted as almost whatever the listener wants. Trump is enough of a distraction that most probably aren't being that critical about what Biden says. Also, another poster astutely pointed out that climate scientists have a significant personal incentive to get Democrats back in power - research funding. And that funding is certainly good, but it won't actually do anything about climate change. "Studying problems and never doing anything about them" is what the Democratic Party does best. * anecdotally/subjectively my opinion about scientists' political judgement is actually pretty dire; they aren't any more politically astute than any other layperson, but they often believe that they are Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:42 on May 2, 2020 |
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May 2, 2020 00:34
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Eminai posted:Joe Biden doesn't need your vote to win, Trump will lose in a landslide not seen since 84. Given that, why are you voting for Joe Biden? What planet are you living on? No matter how you slice it November is gonna be a close race
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May 2, 2020 00:39
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Gumball Gumption posted:Oh, I thought you were being sincere and was trying to be cool but you're still trying to back me into a gotcha on something I didn't say and wasn't the point I was making. gently caress off. What was the point you were trying to make? As best I can tell, now, it seems to have been "OK sure, climate scientists say Biden is better for the Earth than Trump, but I can find some other scientists [not climate scientists] who say vote Trump, so who cares what the climate scientists say." I hope that's not what your point was. e: I mean, one of the big arguments that people itt are putting forward for why Biden needs to lose is that a second Trump term will ultimately be better for the environment. I would think that the input of climate scientists would be valuable and important in determining whether that argument has any merit at all. How are u fucked around with this message at 00:44 on May 2, 2020 |
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May 2, 2020 00:41
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Sarcastr0 posted:Holy poo poo dude. You a full Malthusian mass death worshiper? I get that Malthusian is supposed to be a slur, but accepting that there are limits to what humanity can be is ok.
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May 2, 2020 00:44
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Biden is definitely better for the climate than Trump, in the way that being shot in the head once is better than twice.
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May 2, 2020 00:44
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Vote for Biden or don’t, I mean it’s worrying how many people believe in accelerationism here but whatever, I get it I wouldn’t love punching a ticket for someone I didn’t believe in (but I also don’t have orange man as the opponent in my country, as leader of the free world, but hey at least your conscious is clear) But like a lot of the arguments against Biden work against Bernie. “He won’t get Medicare for all!” Like neither will Bernie? He will say a lot (like Biden does) and unlike Biden what he’ll say will be good, but it won’t get done anyway? You reckon the same poo poo house and senate you say will back up Biden will help Bernie? No way.
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May 2, 2020 00:48
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teacup posted:But like a lot of the arguments against Biden work against Bernie. “He won’t get Medicare for all!” Yeah, sure, this is fine. It's not like Biden's history with austerity hasn't been brought up almost every other page. It's not like Biden himself isn't going out there telling people he's going to put Republicans in his cabinet. It's not as if he is literally taking advice, right now, from people who have done more damage to the world, long and probably near term too, than Trump. Nah it's just 'NO M4A'.
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May 2, 2020 00:52
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Parrotine posted:What planet are you living on? No matter how you slice it November is gonna be a close race I'm basing that on sound, reasonable arguments such as the following: How are u posted:You don't have any power or legitimacy. Your Bernie or Bust faction lost the election. You're going to sit home or write in whoever the Green party grifter or the Marxist candidate's name in November. All signs are pointing toward (D) winning in a hell of a wave. Your show of power in an attempt to re-elect Donald Trump isn't going to amount to a grasshopper's fart.
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May 2, 2020 00:55
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Ytlaya posted:Being a climate scientist does not mean you're good at judging politicians or political promises. What are you talking about? Climate scientist are better than just about anyone else at evaluating policy and political proposals. Or are you saying no one is able to? Regardless, it’s actually a lot simpler than your two pieces of information. You just have to not be a complete and total moron. That’s literally the only way you could possibly think that trump would be better, or even the similar, on climate issues. Oh. Or have been in a coma for the last 4 years - even then half an hour of googling should have you up to speed. Otherwise there is no way you could feasibly have missed the lengths the trump administration has gone to roll back any and all environmental protections, pulled out of international agreements, furiously de-funded research into climate change, including the parts of nasa who monitored climate change and disallowed them from producing reports on it. Not to mention pulling out of international agreements (even non-binding ones, demonstratively), denigrating and ridiculing climate issue advocates. The list goes on. Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 01:00 on May 2, 2020 |
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May 2, 2020 00:57
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/lawcrimenews/status/1256291992780374016?s=19 It's been a while since I had read it, but I want to say there is a special ring of Hell in Dante's Inferno for child molestors. If Allighieri didn't explicitly say that, then there should be and Biden and nobody should bat an eye or shed a tear. Mekchu fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 2, 2020 |
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May 2, 2020 00:57
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Revelation 2-13 posted:What are you talking about? Climate scientist are better than just about anyone else at evaluating policy and political proposals. Or are you saying no one is able to? Everybody arguing that Trump is better for the climate is pretty much by default claiming that they have a better understanding of policy and politics than climate scientists and climate activists. It's kind of absurd.
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May 2, 2020 00:59
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How are u posted:Everybody arguing that Trump is better for the climate is pretty much by default claiming that they have a better understanding of policy and politics than climate scientists and climate activists. It's kind of absurd. It's funny how we're being told that the Democratic Party is super inept and corrupt yet completely fooled everyone by taking down Bernie Sanders and even getting him to betray his own cause.
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May 2, 2020 01:07
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Eminai posted:I'm basing that on sound, reasonable arguments such as the following: lmao maybe the next 6 months won't be so bad if I keep getting meltdowns like this.
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May 2, 2020 01:07
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All this climate debate has shown me is that both candidates are comfortable with the not too far away destruction of our planet because they're both so old they won't live to see or be inconvenienced by it.
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May 2, 2020 01:08
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How are u posted:Everybody arguing that Trump is better for the climate is pretty much by default claiming that they have a better understanding of policy and politics than climate scientists and climate activists. It's kind of absurd. Nobody is saying he's better, they are saying he is effectively identical. In that, we will continue to rapidly approach catastrophic climate change under both administrations. Biden's target of 0 net carbon emissions by 2050 is both pointless and an obvious lie.
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May 2, 2020 01:09
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Revelation 2-13 posted:What are you talking about? Climate scientist are better than just about anyone else at evaluating policy and political proposals. Or are you saying no one is able to? The climate scientists could be being dupped but would you think that's happening to nearly all of these experts? Does anyone have any evidence to show that? Nope.
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May 2, 2020 01:09
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PerniciousKnid posted:Biden is definitely better for the climate than Trump, in the way that being shot in the head once is better than twice. Not to be totally pessimistic here, but isn’t one shot in the head about the best we can hope for at this point? We’re long past the time we should have been implementing any kind of change to save humankind, and now it’s all about how long we can prolong our existence. I understand it’s difficult to accept that we’re hosed, but we are, and now it’s all self-preservation stuff. We will all return to dust, this planet will outlive us, it’s just a matter of when, not if.
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May 2, 2020 01:10
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After reading this thread some more, I've realized that I'm unsure of if I want to vote Biden. Any idea who I should vote for as a third party candidate?
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May 2, 2020 01:11
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Nobody is saying he's better, they are saying he is effectively identical. They aren't identical. And Bernie's plan wasn't even the best. It was Jay Inslee's.
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May 2, 2020 01:12
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Brownhat posted:All this climate debate has shown me is that both candidates are comfortable with the not too far away destruction of our planet because they're both so old they won't live to see or be inconvenienced by it. I think that's actually the strongest argument for Mayor Pete  I'd much rather have Pete than Biden, though. What a world we live in.
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May 2, 2020 01:13
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TobiasKelly posted:After reading this thread some more, I've realized that I'm unsure of if I want to vote Biden. Any idea who I should vote for as a third party candidate? Just leave it blank. Vote down-ballot, leave it at that. All the third party candidates suck rear end too, in one way or another.
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May 2, 2020 01:13
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generic one posted:Not to be totally pessimistic here, but isn’t one shot in the head about the best we can hope for at this point? We’re long past the time we should have been implementing any kind of change to save humankind, and now it’s all about how long we can prolong our existence. Exactly, that's why you different Representative Concentration Pathways!
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May 2, 2020 01:13
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TobiasKelly posted:After reading this thread some more, I've realized that I'm unsure of if I want to vote Biden. Any idea who I should vote for as a third party candidate? I am extremely excited to vote for Bernard sanders in November.
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May 2, 2020 01:13
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misadventurous posted:If you guys really agreed that Biden is a lovely candidate who should drop out, you wouldn’t make dozens of posts loving shilling for him and berating people who dislike him But have you not considered that sitting President Donald John Trump is bad and should be removed even if that means voting in a guy who told a 14 year old she had nice tits, forcibly stuck his fingers up a womans hoohaa, etc. etc.
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May 2, 2020 01:16
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Nobody is saying he's better, they are saying he is effectively identical. That's still claiming that you've got a better understanding and know better than like 99.9% of climate scientists and all climate activists (unless I am unaware of the climate orgs that support Trump's reelection in which case please link them for me so I can correct that).
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May 2, 2020 01:18
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Scientist Al Gore posted:They aren't identical. And Bernie's plan wasn't even the best. It was Jay Inslee's. They are effectively identical. They will both result in an uninhabitable planet. Here's an example to illustrate. Let's say that we're going to execute a man by hanging: Trump wants to use a 4 foot rope. Biden wants a 5 foot rope In both cases, the man dies. Are their methods identical? Technically, no. Effectively, yes. So, while Trump and Biden may have subtle nuances that differentiate their climate plans, both of them will kill us, making them effectively identical. Edit: How are u posted:That's still claiming that you've got a better understanding and know better than like 99.9% of climate scientists and all climate activists (unless I am unaware of the climate orgs that support Trump's reelection in which case please link them for me so I can correct that). Ok, find a climate scientist who does not believe that ending fossil fuels by 2050 is too late. Because that's the Biden plan.
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May 2, 2020 01:18
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How are u posted:I think that's actually the strongest argument for Mayor Pete I'm pretty sure Mayo Pete is racist enough to get the nomination, and would at least have some vested interest in the human race's continued survival.
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May 2, 2020 01:21
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Brownhat posted:I'm pretty sure Mayo Pete is racist enough to get the nomination, and would at least have some vested interest in the human race's continued survival. I'll be honest he looks a lot better to me now than he did 6 months ago. Still hoping for the magical Biden drop-out that leads to Bernie with the nomination, but I won't hold my breath.
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May 2, 2020 01:23
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How are u posted:I'll be honest he looks a lot better to me now than he did 6 months ago. Still hoping for the magical Biden drop-out that leads to Bernie with the nomination, but I won't hold my breath. I think he survived his Morning Joe interview earlier today but he is far from being out of the woods. Still, wish he would drop out and have never of run in the first place.
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May 2, 2020 01:25
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TobiasKelly posted:After reading this thread some more, I've realized that I'm unsure of if I want to vote Biden. Any idea who I should vote for as a third party candidate? Here is Gloria La Riva's 10 point program. If you find this to be appealing, and she is on your ballot, you should consider voting for her. 1) Make the essentials of life into constitutional rights 2) For the Earth to live, capitalism must be replaced by a socialist system 3) End racism, police brutality, mass incarceration-Pay reparations to the African American community 4) Full rights for all immigrants 5) Shut down all U.S. military bases around the world—bring all the troops, planes & ships home 6) Honor Native treaties. Free Leonard Peltier now 7) Full equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer people 8) Equality for women and free, safe, legal abortion on demand 9) Defend and expand our unions 10) Takeover the stolen wealth of the giant banks and corporations – Jail Wall St. criminals
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May 2, 2020 01:27
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Scientist Al Gore posted:I think he survived his Morning Joe interview earlier today but he is far from being out of the woods. Still, wish he would drop out and have never of run in the first place. His statement lied and claimed all his senate personnel papers were in the national archive. A rep for the national archive said almost immediately that they were never given his senate personnel papers. Honestly, there's no way that complaint didn't immediately go into a paper shredder. https://twitter.com/NicoleEinbinder/status/1256325088506347520
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May 2, 2020 01:38
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How are u posted:I'll be honest he looks a lot better to me now than he did 6 months ago. Still hoping for the magical Biden drop-out that leads to Bernie with the nomination, but I won't hold my breath. I kind of want this to happen, too. I want him to have a "fine people on both sides" moment, and watch the fallout as Democrats scramble to launder white supremacy the same way they are currently laundering rape. Just to, yah know, see what happens. Because, frankly, this Biden rape allegation has me genuinely curious how far the democratic party will go to protect themselves from scrutiny. I mean, we already have Biden nostalgic about segregation.
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May 2, 2020 01:42
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