OFFICER LIGER posted:

Except that hasnt happened.

hambeet posted:

also: holy poo poo amnistar wtf happened to your avatar

zzyzx posted:

Amni probably saw Steak say something mildly awkward and thought, "If I get a hit here, it'll be the next big mafia instagram moment and we'll all laugh and I'll be very popular."

But then he missed like a doofus, and probably had to play off the fact that he's kind of embarrassed by it. Just a...yes, a joke! I meant to do that all along, guys.

Amnistar posted:

So, I'm gonna go with ##vote zzyzx

Here is why:


This is a manufactured reason not to vote for me that they made up...and it completely contradicts everything I've said so far about why I did shoot steak. almost as if zzyzx knows I'm not scum, and needs to create a reason not to vote for me.

merk posted:

What do you think of KK’s made up analysis?

Amnistar posted:

He called me stupid at the begining of it so I am not sure I can read it without bias.

Jamuraan posted:

Oh my fault, I don't know why I thought you were.

Amnistar posted:

This is a manufactured reason not to vote for me that they made up...and it completely contradicts everything I've said so far about why I did shoot steak. almost as if zzyzx knows I'm not scum, and needs to create a reason not to vote for me.

Amnistar posted:

Ignoring the hypothetical of how I would act if steak was scum, I don't beleive your thought process here is genuine. You think that I'm lying about why I shot, and that the reason I'm lying is because I'm embarrassed that I was wrong about steak being scum?

I rather think you wanted to not vote me, but didn't want to seem like a bandwagon vote so created a reason to not vote me that was original.

zzyzx posted:

Of course it contradicts what you've said so far; I think it's a made-up reason. If Steak had flipped scum, you absolutely would not have followed up with, "I just did it because it was funny, I didn't have any scum read on him." (You'd be getting familiar with the smug emojis instead.) That only came after yuming voted you.

Varinn asks why a townie would try to make excuses like that, and the answer is that they know they did something dumb.

vivat virtute posted:

There is way too much mind reading and fortune telling in this post, you're tunneled too hard on Amni and locked in regardless of the truth.

Amnistar posted:

Ignoring the hypothetical of how I would act if steak was scum, I don't beleive your thought process here is genuine. You think that I'm lying about why I shot, and that the reason I'm lying is because I'm embarrassed that I was wrong about steak being scum?

I rather think you wanted to not vote me, but didn't want to seem like a bandwagon vote so created a reason to not vote me that was original.

Amnistar posted:

He called me stupid at the begining of it so I am not sure I can read it without bias.

OFFICER LIGER posted:

It's almost reason enough for me to want to vote Amni. But I want more before I vote.

merk posted:

What do you think of KK’s made up analysis?

Khris Kruel posted:

Also notice that merk hasn't once mentioned their read on officer liger

Voodoofly posted:

Their as in other peoples read or their as in nongender reference to merk’s read?

The Ninth Layer posted:

merk says he's unavailable but then makes a post seven minutes later, highly suspicious.

Deadbeat Dad posted:

You kind of made it so he won't do it now because casing him immediately after and accusing him of doing this doesn't ring true. It's projection. He shot, he was wrong, really not much else you can do as a vig except go "welp, I hosed up!"

Like, in theory, if this exact scenario happened I agree that the vig should be looked at, but now it gives room for Amni to be like "hey, I didn't coast after my vig and played like this this and this" because you called him out for something he hasn't even been able to do and now he's very aware.

zzyzx posted:

I've read this a few times and I'm still not sure what to make of it.

The vig should be looked at if he coasts and doesn't do much else. However, by voting for Amni, Varinn has made Amni aware of this, and it gives Amni "room" to participate in future game days and claim that he's not coasting. I think you're criticizing Varinn's case for this.

Wouldn't we all expect Amni to do that anyway?

Voodoofly posted:

This post is the one I’m referring to.


On an unrelated note, I’m now fine voting amni day 1 just so I don’t have to see that avatar anymore

Voodoofly posted:

Like Tokes won’t be around much today but much more active during the week.

Am I missing something on Liger? Everyone is saying he made an obvious joke post. I definitely didn’t read that “sort of suspect amni but need something more” as a joke.

OFFICER LIGER posted:

his avatar was what made me want to lynch him. i didn't say i scumread him. you're the one twisting my words.

Voodoofly posted:

##unvote

##vote officer liver

The “I’m almost ready to vote but need more” post then voting amni right after stuck out skimming on my phone.

Also I’m the last person to ever clear someone from a role but that said daykill scum or sk on day 1 s pretty far fetched. I’m not voting amni today except to avoid a no lynch

LordNad posted:

You joke voted a guy with 2 serious votes and then unvoted when called out on it.

Seems to me you're trying to build momentum in the guise of "it's a joke vote".

##vote Officer Liger

LordNad posted:

A scum day kill is an incredibly powerful tool. As mentioned before it could be used in LYLO to end the game earlier for them. By using it this early, he's brought massive attention on himself day 1 for no real benefit. I can't imagine scum letting a confirmed vig coast to the end game. He still has to vote and participate or he'd get lunched himself.

Personally, popping off day 1 is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect from a Town Vig with that kind of power.

LordNad posted:

I'm voting because what you did was scummy and your explanation afterwards doesn't feel right. Where did I agree with your prior points of view?

LordNad posted:

So you admit you voted for a guy with 2 serious votes who you thought was town

LordNad posted:

Plus they threw snowballs at Santa. Who tf does that.


He jokes about wanting to vote Amni for his avatar. If it's a joke vote, why not just vote?


4 posts later, 12 minutes after Varinn drops the 2nd serious vote on Amni, he comes in with his joke vote. The timing is very suspicious to me, and it is a vote of opportunity disguised as a joke. I don't know Liger but I sure as hell am not getting a townie vibe from him.

Tom Tucker posted:

Here's who I was thinking - Voodoo go read it back in context.

I don't think Voodoo is scum here he straight up admits he's skimming.

LordNad here is really leaning in:


This doesn't seem genuine to me, where have joke votes ever built momentum? If you believe this what is Liger's best-case scenario, that he sticks his neck out as the third vote which causes a tidal wave of momentum, but has his cake and eats it too by making it a joke vote? What does he do when the tidal wave comes in, unvote his joke vote? Leave it on and look scummy as hell? There's no "good" scenario here there's no reason for him to be pushing a 2-vote candidate with a joke vote expecting results and assigning that motivation to him seems absurd. Early in day 1 joke-voting someone who has two votes, who cares?

It's the momentum onto HIM that stands out to me. LordNad had already raised my hackles with this post:

Tom Tucker posted:

Where I accused him of basically contributing to a discussion (which I found unproductive), keeping it going, while adding nothing of real value. I think the Liger vote is partially in response to being called on that, but his vote is also mere statements of fact. My gut tells me LordNad is avoiding stating opinions of things and relying on facts to explain themselves because facts don't lie, even if they don't say what his vote implies they do.

His actual vote looks to split the difference - stating facts, then stating his "opinion" that this is an attempt to build momentum, which I believe is a flawed conclusion. LordNad gets pushed back and I feel like backed into it he feels the need to double down.

Tom Tucker posted:

Continued engagement but the "explanation afterwards doesn't feel right" - what about it doesn't feel right? LordNad seems to hold the views that it was a joke vote and was some sort of scheme to build momentum simultaneously. I think these two ideas are, in most cases I can think of, exclusionary.

Tom Tucker posted:

This is what really annoys me though. Again LordNad is simply stating facts, but framing it as if it is an "admission". This framing is very suspicious to me - Liger has already said it was a joke vote, we know the other two votes are serious ones, Liger has stated he feels Amni was town, none of these facts are in contention. Yet here we have LordNad presenting them as if it is some sort of "admission". It feeds into LordNad's "bring up facts to continue conversations but add little" and what I feel is a hard-to-draw conclusion based on those facts which he does and then presents as a done deal or some "admission" of Liger's.

Here LordNad gets a little bit out of the hole by trying to make an argument here and ascribe motive, which is good, but the argument itself seems silly compared to the wording he's used before (mostly "admission"). Liger is joking about Amni's avatar and overall being worthless but doesn't actually vote Amni. LordNad asks "why not just vote" which is a question I still don't understand. Why do anything when you're joking around? If your point is that he's scummy for still joke-voting when people are getting serious that's fine, but it's not LordNad's point, he's saying that Liger planted this idea then waited 12 minutes to do the actual vote because he wanted a third vote for more momentum and was taking advantage of the opportunity which is, to me, absurd. The Machiavellian picture that unfolds of scum, seeing 1 vote on Amni, and tenting their fingers and saying "ah yes! I will vote for Amni as a JOKE VOTE to push the lunch! But I can't just do it... I must set up my joke vote, which is actually a real vote to push the lunch, but making a FIRST post wherein I say I [i]might vote him, then when the second vote happens, I sweep in with my third vote, and the lunch will be on autopilot from there! Now to play the waiting game..." it's nonsense. LordNad is pushing it hard and vaccilating between stating facts "you voted for someone you thought was town" which are not in disagreement with absurd doubling-down that this is somehow scummy (it ain't).

Tom Tucker posted:

Dude you followed up a "I need to see more" serious post with a joke post that wasn't super funny and added a real vote to a growing launch - this is scummy behavior it is hard to argue that. I still think you are town despite that but at least acknowledge it.

CapnAndy posted:

If there’s anything you and I and like 80% of this game should know right now it’s that the reverse is also true and amni does things scum would do while town.

jivjov posted:

Doing some reading back, and yeah...Liger building momentum on someone like that seems a bit sus....tbh I don't know you well enough to definitely trust my own reads, but when they are already lining up with the majority...

##vote OFFICER LIGER

jivjov posted:

Doing some reading back, and yeah...Liger building momentum on someone like that seems a bit sus....tbh I don't know you well enough to definitely trust my own reads, but when they are already lining up with the majority...

##vote OFFICER LIGER

Amnistar posted:

I would vote this post if it were not their first game.

jivjov posted:

Oh, guess I should probably ##unvote since my vote was...well, not really a joke, but done in direct response to the vote against me which doesn't exist any more

OFFICER LIGER posted:

How did you win survivor

CCKeane posted:

Give it a shot, I'd love your thoughts.

CapnAndy posted:

Maybe don't flat out admit that you're voting someone just because they're voting you? It is bad form.