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UnknownTarget posted:When you think about it, all symmetrical modern military doctrine is based on theory and no one serving at any level has any first hand experience fighting against a state foe that posed an existential threat. Literally no one. iran
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May 4, 2020 22:48
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UnknownTarget posted:When you think about it, all symmetrical modern military doctrine is based on theory and no one serving at any level has any first hand experience fighting against a state foe that posed an existential threat. Literally no one. I mean, Taliban (both world superpowers), ISIS, FARC, EZLN, Chechen Separatists, the Donbass liberation brigades. Rich veins of applied military knowledge, specifically high-casualty operations against a first world enemy. And about a 50/50 success rate considering failure is absolute suppression if not extermination. Just, all very unlikely to share with the US military. And tbf, not much of it applicable to naval operations. e: and Iran, yep. Also Iraq at least thrice. ee: and the Viet Cong. PipHelix has issued a correction as of 04:45 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 22:57
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Probably the closest we've come to a real naval/air war since 1945 is the Falklands, and I'm not sure how applicable lessons that are now almost 40 years old would be anymore e: the Falklands was closer in time to World War 2 than to today vyelkin has issued a correction as of 23:10 on May 4, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 23:01
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vyelkin posted:Probably the closest we've come to a real naval/air war since 1945 is the Falklands, and I'm not sure how applicable lessons that are now almost 40 years old would be anymore Bosnian Serbs whopped at least one F-16 about PipHelix has issued a correction as of 23:14 on May 4, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 23:10
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I was saying the US doesn't have that experience. Even with Iran, it's 1) all theory since we haven't gone to war with them officially and 2) it's still not existential in the way that a war with China, the EU or Russia would threaten the country's existence.
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May 4, 2020 23:14
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UnknownTarget posted:When you think about it, all symmetrical modern military doctrine is based on theory and no one serving at any level has any first hand experience fighting against a state foe that posed an existential threat. Literally no one. no one in imperial armies
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May 4, 2020 23:19
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PipHelix posted:Bosnian Serbs whopped at least one F-16 about they would take microwave ovens and modify them so they could be turned on with the door open. they'd point them up and they would appear similar enough to the radars that the US would drop fire really expensive missiles to take out a $50 microwave
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May 4, 2020 23:54
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euphronius posted:superpowers haven’t had a navel battle in 75 YEARS There was some naval warfare in the Falklands. One of two military ships sunk by a submarine since ww2 was in that war TeenageArchipelago has issued a correction as of 02:45 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 23:57
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argentina blew up some smaller british ships with anti ship missiles during the falklands war, and britain sunk argentinas battleship
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May 5, 2020 00:01
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UnknownTarget posted:I was saying the US doesn't have that experience. Even with Iran, it's 1) all theory since we haven't gone to war with them officially and 2) it's still not existential in the way that a war with China, the EU or Russia would threaten the country's existence. oh i thought you meant on earth
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May 5, 2020 00:12
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PipHelix posted:Bosnian Serbs whopped at least one F-16 about And an F-117 which made everyone crowing about US stealth tech quieten down quite a bit.
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May 5, 2020 00:47
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they try to say that guy only hit the 117 cause he had foreknowledge of it coming due to laziness of the sortie planners using the same route or something like that but they interviewed the guy and hes like hey i shot it dont rob me of that
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May 5, 2020 01:51
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TeenageArchipelago posted:There was some naval warfare in the Falklands. One of two military ships sunk by a submarine was in that war superpowers not third rate tryhards
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May 5, 2020 02:33
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Real hurthling! posted:they try to say that guy only hit the 117 cause he had foreknowledge of it coming due to laziness of the sortie planners using the same route or something like that but they interviewed the guy and hes like hey i shot it dont rob me of that well they're right.
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May 5, 2020 02:37
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were carriers even deployed in the Flaklands scuffle
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May 5, 2020 02:42
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euphronius posted:were carriers even deployed in the Flaklands scuffle By both sides! Argentina had a carrier that they had bought from the Brits
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May 5, 2020 02:45
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TeenageArchipelago posted:By both sides! Argentina had a carrier that they had bought from the Brits ok well that counts then I’m sorry for being dismissive
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May 5, 2020 02:46
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euphronius posted:were carriers even deployed in the Flaklands scuffle iirc the royal navy had to fly harriers and choppers from the decks of cargo ships
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May 5, 2020 02:46
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For those wondering why NATO didn't get called in, afaik article 5 only applies to attacks against countries that occur above a certain latitude, and the Falklands are not exactly far north
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May 5, 2020 02:59
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Ironically this was because at the inception of NATO the US didn't want to be obliged to help fight the UK/France with the obviously looming imperial wars
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May 5, 2020 03:06
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yeah iirc the latitude clause was heavily negotiated
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May 5, 2020 03:07
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Fuzzy McDoom posted:Ironically this was because at the inception of NATO the US didn't want to be obliged to help fight the UK/France with the obviously looming imperial wars The death squads meant more when they came from the heart
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May 5, 2020 03:50
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Spergin Morlock posted:they would take microwave ovens and modify them so they could be turned on with the door open. they'd point them up and they would appear similar enough to the radars that the US would drop fire really expensive missiles to take out a $50 microwave Hah hah jokes on them, we just made the cost up when Clinton cut welfare for poor kids. Budget neutral, didn't cost us a dime. Fuzzy McDoom posted:Ironically this was because at the inception of NATO the US didn't want to be obliged to help fight the UK/France with the obviously looming imperial wars UnknownTarget posted:1) all theory since we haven't gone to war with them officially Stairmaster posted:well they're right. Within 10 years a hypersonic missle is gonna send around 1000 sailors and a couple billion dollars worth of naval architecture to the bottom of the straits of Taiwan, but at least it won't count because the guy in charge of the anti-missile defense system (that has to be rebooted hourly and also doesn't work and never had in the first place) was asleep or jerking off so we're still #1. Edit - when did this thread go from licking our chops at the prospect of America splintering under it's own decayed bloat to denying the bloat even exists, hey nonny nonny, hooraw semper fi? PipHelix has issued a correction as of 05:05 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 04:23
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vyelkin posted:Probably the closest we've come to a real naval/air war since 1945 is the Falklands, and I'm not sure how applicable lessons that are now almost 40 years old would be anymore Holy poo poo, I was born basically equidistant from the end of WWII until today 
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May 5, 2020 04:34
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We're not owned, we're not owned, we insist as we lose every major war we've prosecuted in the better part of a century while also getting memorably and hilariously pantsed at least once by every minor militia we do manage to put down.
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May 5, 2020 04:50
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The American ROTC Harry Potter dons his cloak of invisibility, sneaks down into the nefarious lair of professor Snape, sticks his foot in a mop bucket, rolls clanging down the rest of the flight of stairs, directly into the back of Snape's legs, where he shits his pants, filling the room with stink. A moment of stunned silence "Now, see, here's why you actually haven't noticed I'm in here. I've got the most magical power. And this here cloak? Means you can't see me and that's that."
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May 5, 2020 04:59
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PipHelix posted:Hah hah jokes on them, we just made the cost up when Clinton cut welfare for poor kids. Budget neutral, didn't cost us a dime. It's ridiculously racist to characterise the Viet Minh and NLF as 'dirt farming peasants'. They were a sophisticated army with up-to-date weaponry, training and the immortal science guiding their strategy. This is itself a tactic to assuage American fear of your fragility. Insisting that international socialist solidarity in the face of imperialist genocide had nothing to do with it and it was simply a fluke and due entirely to American incompetence. WhiskeyWhiskers has issued a correction as of 05:34 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 05:30
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The Harrier was a short-ranged aircraft with a finicky engine and a small payload, but by God the British did not let us forget that they were able to run them out of their dinky little carriers during the Falklands conflict
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May 5, 2020 05:34
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:It's ridiculously racist to characterise the Viet Minh and NLF as 'dirt farming peasants'. They were a sophisticated army with up-to-date weaponry, training and the immortal science guiding their strategy. This is itself a tactic to assuage American fear of your fragility. Insisting that international socialist solidarity in the face of imperialist genocide had nothing to do with it and it was simply a fluke and due entirely to American incompetence. There are like 50 military cemeteries in the DRV that are proof of the people's resolve against a far larger, technologically and numerically superior foe. Americans fought savagely in Vietnam and committed deep atrocities that still impact the country negatively today.
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May 5, 2020 05:55
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SKULL.GIF posted:A new chapter of American history begins here, at this place Colorado, "Rockmountain". Strike the earth!
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May 5, 2020 06:19
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GATES FOUNDATION posted:There are like 50 military cemeteries in the DRV that are proof of the people's resolve against a far larger, technologically and numerically superior foe. Americans fought savagely in Vietnam and committed deep atrocities that still impact the country negatively today. This is all true while still not feeding into a ridiculous narrative of Vietnamese soldiers being completely untrained and unequipped peasants.
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May 5, 2020 06:44
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PipHelix posted:I mean, Taliban (both world superpowers), ISIS, FARC, EZLN, Chechen Separatists, the Donbass liberation brigades. Rich veins of applied military knowledge, specifically high-casualty operations against a first world enemy. And about a 50/50 success rate considering failure is absolute suppression if not extermination. What part of symmetrical was unclear
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May 5, 2020 09:06
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PipHelix posted:
Have we gone to war with Iran, officially or unofficially and I missed it?
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May 5, 2020 14:04
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PipHelix posted:And thank god, can you imagine the dual nightmares we'd be dealing with 70 years on if we'd let them drag us into helping them pacify say, Iran and Vietnam? you do know that france started the vietnam war right
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May 5, 2020 14:54
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UnknownTarget posted:Have we gone to war with Iran, officially or unofficially and I missed it? Dumb derail, but Iran and Iraq had the last big state v. state fight to the death the world has seen.
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May 5, 2020 15:58
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How are the interstate pacts holding up?
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May 5, 2020 19:06
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UnknownTarget posted:Have we gone to war with Iran, officially or unofficially and I missed it? aside from those bottle rockets getting flung back and forth a few months back, I don’t think so
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May 5, 2020 19:41
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At some point, as a Californian or an Oregonian or a Washingtonian, or any other kind of blue stater, you have to ask why you hang around: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1257741326650470400
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May 5, 2020 20:16
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Zberan Madowinty posted:At some point, as a Californian or an Oregonian or a Washingtonian, or any other kind of blue stater, you have to ask why you hang around: Because the lovely Liberals who run those states are cowards.
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May 5, 2020 20:30
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Zberan Madowinty posted:At some point, as a Californian or an Oregonian or a Washingtonian, or any other kind of blue stater, you have to ask why you hang around: i look forward to manning the border wall between the Northeastern States of America and Bible Hell
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May 5, 2020 20:36
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