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Crowsbeak posted:I actually do. And most were the latter. Also lol at anyone who votes Labour unless the person they vote for says Corbyn was betrayed. You can excuse my confusion when you say quote:Like at this point some guys defending Stalin for not killing Beria seems pretty small potatoes versus a party that will likely kill hundreds of thousands of its own countrymen. which to the untrained observer would seem to say that Stalin didn't kill hundreds of thousands of people. And real shame about those reactionaries, who'd have thought nearly the entire Lenin-era Bolshevik party would turn out to be imperialist turncoats?
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May 5, 2020 18:34
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Norton the First posted:lol at I do, and also, I don't. How embarrassing. Are you a Homework Explainer alt? Kulaks deserves it as did land lords. Also. Will you vote for someone in Labour who doesn’t defend Corbyn and his policies or if they don’t take issue with him for being too much of a compromised?
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May 5, 2020 18:36
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multijoe posted:I would have a ton more respect for marxist-leninists if they just acknowledged the death and repression under that happened under most of their favourite guys but just accepted it as a neccessary sacrifice to build communism rather than these endless mental gymnastics where they either claim it didn't happen at all or that everyone who did get it was a unforgivable reactionary who definitely had it coming they didn't build communism, and they weren't doing it to build communism, so i am comfortable saying they had it coming. for an easier example, i do not respect comrades more when they defend pol pot.
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May 5, 2020 18:44
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Crowsbeak posted:Kulaks deserves it as did land lords. Also. Will you vote for someone in Labour who doesn’t defend Corbyn and his policies or if they don’t take issue with him for being too much of a compromised? You know the Great Purge killed hundreds of thousands of party members, right?
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May 5, 2020 18:48
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Norton the First posted:You know the Great Purge killed hundreds of thousands of party members, right? Yeah. And? I mean I want to know if all you people who take issue with this party are going to unequivocally vote Labour.
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May 5, 2020 19:16
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Crowsbeak posted:Yeah. And? I mean I want to know if all you people who take issue with this party are going to unequivocally vote Labour. Nope I ended my membership yesterday, happy to clear that up
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May 5, 2020 19:17
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Crowsbeak posted:I actually do. And most were the latter. Also lol at anyone who votes Labour unless the person they vote for says Corbyn was betrayed. Until Corbyn became leader I had never voted for Labour. As soon as it became clear his replacement was going to be Starmer I quit the party & until they give up the loving weak milquetoast neoliberalism I'll not be voting for them. Next year's Scottish elections I'll probably vote for the Greens because they are the furthest left party with a seat at Holyrood & with a chance of holding onto that seat. Next national election I have no loving clue who I'll vote for but also it won't matter because it's a safe SNP seat since the Lib Dems killed themselves. Labour were an opportunity, it didn't work out, other than that I've no attachment to them, I came of age in the Blair years, can't really be on the left & have fond memories of those. multijoe posted:
Yeah, I mean, look at the original Sovnarkom formed in November 1917, 14 ministries, 1 not filled immediately (Rail), & 1 with 3 ministers (Military Affairs). So of the 15 members of that initial revolutionary government Lenin, Stalin, Stepanov, Nogin, & Lunacharsky died of natural causes. That leaves Rykov, Milyutov, Shliapnikov, Antonov-Ovseenko, Krylenko, Dybenko, Lomov, Teodorovich & Glebov died during the purges, plus Trotsky obviously was assassinated. And obviously there were other prominent names who weren't in Sovnarkom originally & were later purged, most notably Bukharin, Zinoviev & Kamenev. Sure, maybe Lenin was a really bad judge of character & 2/3rds of Sovnarkom were fascist spies plotting to bring down the revolution from inside. But if he's that bad at judging his own party members do you really want to listen to anything he has to say on politics? Sounds pretty useless to me. Or alternatively, Stalin was a paranoid megalomaniac & just because he wrapped himself in a red flag doesn't actually mean he's worth celebrating because I dunno, murdering comrades seems suspect to me. If you can tell me what exactly Aleksandr Shliapnikov did that warranted being executed I'd be fascinated to know.
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May 5, 2020 19:18
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gh0stpinballa posted:true but I'll probably end up voting for em at the next election if they run cos the labour party is officially a dead end now. I don't know why you'd choose them even if you absolutely must vote for a communist party. There are probably some out there known for things other than homophobia
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May 6, 2020 03:06
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Doc Hawkins posted:they didn't build communism, and they weren't doing it to build communism, so i am comfortable saying they had it coming.
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May 6, 2020 05:49
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May 6, 2020 06:27
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forkboy84 posted:Sure, maybe Lenin was a really bad judge of character & 2/3rds of Sovnarkom were fascist spies plotting to bring down the revolution from inside. But if he's that bad at judging his own party members do you really want to listen to anything he has to say on politics? Sounds pretty useless to me. Or alternatively, Stalin was a paranoid megalomaniac & just because he wrapped himself in a red flag doesn't actually mean he's worth celebrating because I dunno, murdering comrades seems suspect to me. If you can tell me what exactly Aleksandr Shliapnikov did that warranted being executed I'd be fascinated to know. The fascism accusations were almost certainly theatrical slander, but plotting in secret was basically how Bolsheviks still operated in their internal power struggles, and explicit calls for a coup had been made in the past. There's no real difference between Stalin and Lenin in branding ostensible socialists as counterrevolutionaries for actively undermining their vision. In this way, perceived indirect aid for fascists could be construed as being agents of fascism. But Lenin would have done that as well if he thought the same people were coup-plotters. Stalin was paranoid to the extent that actual realities taught him to be, and he was as megalomaniacal as the goals of the party demanded of a leader: these are aspects behind his popularity and appeal among his peers. Stalin's negative personality traits are overblown because of the silly trend of trying to explain what historical figures did by their psychology, but they really weren't anything clinically concerning. For what it's worth, my understanding of the history is that Stalin initially appeared as a less brutal figure than e.g. Lenin and Trotsky, and punishment of unprovable suspicions by death aspect came as he became surrounded by yes-men and there was no counter-paranoia anymore to their collective catastrophizing. I think lack of a certain emotional maturity and a consequent preference for predictable yes-men may have been the most tragic of Stalin's personality traits, but there's also nothing psychologically special about that, it's all in the surrounding context. Crowsbeak posted:Kulaks deserves it as did land lords. Also. Will you vote for someone in Labour who doesn’t defend Corbyn and his policies or if they don’t take issue with him for being too much of a compromised? "Kulaks deserved it" is a bullshit diversion because the kulaks are not what is really the concern! First off, there was far too much suspicion going around for there to have been time to gather reasonable proof of those suspicions. As such, we are talking about terror rather than justice: it's not done to punish wrongdoers but to instill a fear of acting suspiciously in public in everyone equally. You have to support terror without the pretense of there existing such a thing as unproblematically just terror. You have to face that terror causes damage to people who don't deserve it and who could have been important allies. When you obviously can't know who's who, you should have an inclination to minimize unintentional damage rather than to maximize some kind of righteous punishment. And that's precisely where Stalin lost his touch over time: he became too able to convince himself that actually he did know for certain who was who and there was no consequential unintentional damage that could be done. But damage was done, a whole lot of societal and organizational trauma that could have been avoided without putting anything in serious danger. A new society can't be built on the basis of fearing the consequences of standing out while going against the prevailing wisdom. Late Stalin's approach favored those who went against the grain dishonestly and in secret, people who didn't have good intentions and knew it.
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May 6, 2020 07:22
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Continuity RCP posted:I don't know why you'd choose them even if you absolutely must vote for a communist party. There are probably some out there known for things other than homophobia we live in a one party state and not one of the good ones so i say vote for whoever you want
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May 6, 2020 08:58
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Pol Pot was a CIA stooge, those comrades do not even respect themselves. learning pol pot and isis were both colonialist projects of the CIA and NATO was a real omg moment for me
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May 6, 2020 09:00
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ISIS wasn't a deliberate NATO project unless you're counting 'inevitable consequences of incompetent and horribly violent imperialism' as a project.
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May 6, 2020 09:49
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Boy these UK politics sure are interesting huh
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May 6, 2020 10:00
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I voted tusc in 2015
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May 6, 2020 11:09
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Jose posted:I voted tusc in 2015 I hope one of the lasting legacy of Corbynism is the collapse of all the really garbage left pretend electoral projects because they all joined Labour. Galloway and the Tankie Project are hopefully the last gasp of their lovely grouping and whatever comes next will be actually viable.
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May 6, 2020 11:55
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namesake posted:hopefully the last gasp of their lovely grouping and whatever comes next will be actually viable. we are a one party state for as long as the tories and the press want it that way
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May 6, 2020 12:59
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namesake posted:I hope one of the lasting legacy of Corbynism is the collapse of all the really garbage left pretend electoral projects because they all joined Labour. Galloway and the Tankie Project are hopefully the last gasp of their lovely grouping and whatever comes next will be actually viable. I think this could finally be the SWPs moment, this time for sure
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May 6, 2020 13:32
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Britain somehow avoided being the only European nation to enter a depression due to Brexit by the saving grace of Roni. God truly chose the UK as its special annointed one.
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May 6, 2020 13:33
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cyka blyat posted:Britain somehow avoided being the only European nation to enter a depression due to Brexit by the saving grace of Roni. A good hard Brexit at the end of the year will certainly get the economy back on its feet, and resurrect all the destroyed businesses.
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May 6, 2020 13:43
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The UK grew by 0.0% in Q4 2019 rather than a negative number and that's the only reason.
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May 6, 2020 14:32
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gh0stpinballa posted:we live in a one party state and not one of the good ones so i say vote for whoever you want CPGB-ML are only helping Galloway because they've been haemorrhaging members for the last couple of years and are desperate. They're deader than Labour.
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May 6, 2020 20:54
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banksy is a basic bitch
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May 6, 2020 21:39
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Tha_Joker_GAmer posted:banksy is a basic bitch Yes? Okay?
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May 6, 2020 22:12
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Continuity RCP posted:I think this could finally be the SWPs moment, this time for sure Do you like jazz
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May 7, 2020 00:04
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MikeCrotch posted:Do you like jazz Only if it's mandatory and played by racists
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May 7, 2020 00:06
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May 8, 2020 20:43
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Finally, I understand what Brexit is!
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May 8, 2020 20:54
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https://twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1258674594136961031?s=21 The vultures are gathering.
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May 8, 2020 22:32
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1258674594136961031?s=21 the people voted for pain
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May 8, 2020 23:51
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1258674594136961031?s=21 Egg man loving loves Ayn Rand to the point he goes to the annual Ayn Rand convention every year
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May 8, 2020 23:55
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his wife literally threatened to break up with him if he didn't stop trying to read Rand to herthe spectator posted:just before Christmas, Sajid Javid performed a ritual he has observed twice a year throughout his adult life: he read the courtroom scene in The Fountainhead. To Ayn Rand fans, it’s famous: the hero declares his principles and his willingness to be imprisoned for them if need be. As a student, Javid read the passage to his now-wife, but only once — she told him she’d have nothing more to do with him if he tried it again.
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May 8, 2020 23:58
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What does run the economy hot even mean
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May 9, 2020 00:23
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gove used the same phrase earlier in the epidemic, it means "open the blood gates and shovel old people and the poor into the fire box of the economy" but it sounds a lot cooler than saying "I think it's more important that me and my pals make money than that we try and save lives"
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May 9, 2020 00:27
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XMNN posted:gove used the same phrase earlier in the epidemic, it means "open the blood gates and shovel old people and the poor into the fire box of the economy" but it sounds a lot cooler than saying "I think it's more important that me and my pals make money than that we try and save lives" It's insane. It would take less than a minute of critical thinking to realize that pretending the roni isn't real and trying to open the country up is actually bad for the economy. Do they think normal people are going to go shopping when the death toll is over 100,000 thousand and we all witnessed relatives dying? we don't even need to guess because america is doing just that and they're loving themselves over horribly. I think this denial of reality has to be something more than just about the economy but just a sheer terror of the status quo changing.
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May 9, 2020 11:00
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word on the street is that BoJo is a great fan of Winston Churchill and even wrote a biography about him?? i wonder if having a brush with death makes you more/less like Churchill...
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May 9, 2020 11:03
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hemale in pain posted:It's insane. It would take less than a minute of critical thinking to realize that pretending the roni isn't real and trying to open the country up is actually bad for the economy. Do they think normal people are going to go shopping when the death toll is over 100,000 thousand and we all witnessed relatives dying? yeah its the latter, the thing that absolutely must be stopped at all costs is a reversal of neoliberal decay and theft thats got us to this point the blindingly obvious solution is direct government provision and some form of wartime socialism, but that absolutely must not happen or it would undo 50 years of effort for the neoliberal vultures that scares them a lot more than megadeath
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May 9, 2020 13:03
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"Oh no, all the remaining NHS staff are sick. poo poo, no choice but to print pounds straight into private healthcare initiatives run by our friends."
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May 9, 2020 14:27
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Watching the UK slowly morphing to all the worst parts of America is pretty loving sad not gonna lie
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May 9, 2020 14:36
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