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FCKGW posted:CA is suing Uber and Lyft for misclassifying employees Excellent timing, I hope they get wrecked.
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May 6, 2020 19:14
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Did they ever get enough signatures to put the Uber/Lyft "gig workers are exempt from being classified as employees" proposition on the ballot for November?
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May 6, 2020 19:19
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drat that's loving sad 
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May 6, 2020 19:24
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Sydin posted:Did they ever get enough signatures to put the Uber/Lyft "gig workers are exempt from being classified as employees" proposition on the ballot for November? no not yet they don't even have 25% of the required sigs, but they only just started at the end of march - the deadline is june 25 but they probably won't make it quote:Deadline: The deadline for signature verification is June 25, 2020. However, the process of verifying signatures can take multiple months. The recommended deadlines were March 3, 2020, for an initiative requiring a full check of signatures and April 21, 2020, for an initiative requiring a random sample of signatures.
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May 6, 2020 19:39
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:no not yet Lockdown is destroying all the props for this year's election, lol. From a quick look, the good ones were for legalizing shrooms and regulations for dialysis clinics. Then a bunch of terrible ones, and a few mystery props.
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May 6, 2020 20:09
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Neat. I guess a silver lining of the current situation is that it frustrates the hell out of any signature collection efforts for that crap.
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May 6, 2020 20:10
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I thought there was a partial repeal of Prop 13 (for commercial properties) headed for the ballot this year. Did that die already?
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May 6, 2020 20:25
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jetz0r posted:Lockdown is destroying all the props for this year's election, lol. Mystery props as in we don't know anything about what they mean, or mystery props like Prop 11 that are unclear on who benefits and what the actual political goal is?
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May 6, 2020 20:27
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LtStorm posted:Mystery props as in we don't know anything about what they mean, or mystery props like Prop 11 that are unclear on who benefits and what the actual political goal is? The latter. Save endangered wildlife prop could mean putting two birds in a cage while dumping $-37 crude on their old habitat and burning it for 8 months, for the cost of $200mil/year to contractors.
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May 6, 2020 20:36
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He didn't make it. https://www.sfgate.com/news/bayarea/article/22-Year-Old-Suffers-Critical-Injuries-In-Weekend-15246629.php
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May 6, 2020 20:39
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https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Twitter-employee-transit-advocate-dies-after-15248295.php drat.
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May 6, 2020 20:42
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Can people just relax for a moment outside in America without worrying about being gunned down?
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May 6, 2020 20:44
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:Can people just relax for a moment outside in America without worrying about being gunned down? No and it is an assault on my rights to even ask.
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May 6, 2020 20:46
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First loving response is a "thoughts and prayers" from a D legislator. This loving country.
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May 6, 2020 20:47
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Colin Mockery posted:
Colin Mockery posted:
Fixed link https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/San-Francisco-transit-advocate-dies-from-shootout-15249129.php
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May 6, 2020 20:48
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:Can people just relax for a moment outside in America without worrying about being gunned down? no, its every americans right to shoot each other u dont hate uncle same do you just speaking about dolores park, i can remember off the top of my head (grew up in SF, lived in the bay all my life) a few shootings there that were in the news, and those are all from the past 10 years, when gentrification has been making things less shooty. My friend witnessed one there when he was a kid in the 90s, and i remember being warned myself to stay away from drug dealers who liked to hang out in certain parts of it. Dolores park is kind of right on the border of a fancy pants area, and a currently gentrifying half working class and half fancy area, where gang/drug warfare is relatively common (was more so in the past), though the blocks nearest to the park are entirely gentrified these days aside from residents with rent control and the public high school right next to the park. society gets hosed up when your country's guiding principles have always been racism, theft, and murder
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May 6, 2020 21:58
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bawfuls posted:I thought there was a partial repeal of Prop 13 (for commercial properties) headed for the ballot this year. Did that die already? yes it's already on the ballot, as is rent control (somewhat watered down from last time) and elimination of cash bail also vote no on this bullshit that they're trying again to let boomers get around more of prop 13
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May 7, 2020 00:37
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Had a very California conversation where someone was taking about how much they hated spineless liberals, how Biden was basically the same as trump, etc. and then prop. 13 came up and they shifted into a “ahh yes, well you see the thing there is that property isn’t the same as other kinds of wealth you see” equivocating tone and it came out that they had land in SF they bought decades ago they didn’t want to get the rates raised on.
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May 7, 2020 08:14
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The old adage was that as you got older you'd get more conservative. Turns out that it's property ownership that makes you more conservative, which is exactly why younger generations are staying radicalized since none of us will ever be able to afford to buy any.
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May 7, 2020 09:08
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Property only makes you more conservative when property is an investment to sit on and pull money out of and not, you know, a place to live.
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May 7, 2020 15:18
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Still Dismal posted:Had a very California conversation ... Phil Ochs posted:10 degrees to the left of center in good times, 10 degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.
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May 7, 2020 15:38
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Class Warcraft posted:The old adage was that as you got older you'd get more conservative. Turns out that it's property ownership that makes you more conservative, which is exactly why younger generations are staying radicalized since none of us will ever be able to afford to buy any. I have friend who has this weird quirk of defending landlords, any time I bring up rent control she will say that landlords spend hour maintaining their properties for very low profit margins and rent control will ruin them; it is loving bizarre. She doesn't own any rentals but is absolutely convinced landlords are all hard working people and their renters take advantage of the landlords all the time. Edit: I absolutely agree with you point about what property ownership does to a person's politics. side_burned fucked around with this message at 17:07 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 16:57
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The Landlords could be putting all that real estate to other beneficial uses! They don't need destructive renters destroying their property! They should be so lucky
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May 7, 2020 18:02
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side_burned posted:She doesn't own any rentals but is absolutely convinced landlords are all hard working people and their renters take advantage of the landlords all the time. there has got to be more to this story
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May 7, 2020 18:02
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Property only makes you more conservative when property is an investment to sit on and pull money out of and not, you know, a place to live. This is totally not true. People totally see their purchased primary residences as investments, and use the various government apparatuses to protect their investments. This is conservative almost by definition. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 18:18 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 18:08
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I bought a house in Concord in december 2009 and it has doubled in value. It's a place to live, but if me and my wife's parents die (I hope they don't any time soon but) when they go, we'll probably sell, take our enormous windfall profits, and go buy a house outright somewhere actually affordable to live. Despite that fact that, with no effort or action of my own besides "be able to afford a $240k foreclosed house during the housing crisis because the payments were the same as the rent I was already paying, and the FHA 5% down payment deal at that time was pretty good" the equity in my house is now more than half my net worth, and I can't just ignore that. I didn't create the system that made this happen, and it was a personally smart and good choice for us to buy when and where we did. It's a modest 1200 square foot home built in the 1950s mostly for the blue-collar workers that were commuting out to the shipyards and refineries along the sac delta/bay. I'm not living like a rich guy, my wife is an arts administrator, we're not rich, we make a comfortable living but that's it. If I didn't have the equity in this house, I'd be way behind on my retirement savings, and if the equity blows up, we'll have to leave just to find somewhere where the cost of living is lower, so we can afford to save more. But now this house is a significant part of our retirement, and I can totally see how anyone looking at their own numbers, in their 40s or 50s or 60s, can't reconcile their liberal politics with the fact that without that unearned windfall, their retirement would be a hell of a lot less secure and comfortable. I support increased property taxes and the elimination of prop 13, including on my own house. The least I can do is help my community pay for its schools and parks and infrastructure, and if the taxes ever got too high for me to afford, I could sell this house to the I also took on risk, which is the capitalist's justification for my rich reward. In 2011, my house was worth less than I paid for it, and I only put 5% down... if we'd lost our jobs and had to sell at that low, we could have been financially hosed. But that wasn't a very big risk, I knew our jobs were reasonably secure, my position is in demand, and my parents would probably have bailed us out if we needed to bring a few thousand to the table just to get rid of the house. So the risk I took doesn't really line up with or justify this $250k+ reward, and that's true of most of the bay area people who took on risk at some point in the last fifty years, and most of whom have made a lot more than me (somtimes $1M+) in "reward" for that risk. The problem here is that we're using an essential need - housing - to substitute for speculative risks, and the "investment" that home buyers make isn't even like the investment a capitalist makes in a business venture; we're not creating jobs (compared to housing provided by other means than capitalist investment), we're not inventing things that make people's lives better, we're not transporting goods or providing services or whatever. We're just speculating. And my conviction is that speculation - as opposed to investment - doesn't deserve windfall profits and tax-advantaged rewards. I know a lot of D&D posters would rather eject capitalism entirely, and I'm not quite with them on that, but I do think that it's not right that speculation is treated identically to investment in our tax structures. So yeah. Tax my house. Not everyone who owns property shifts to the right or compromises their pre-existing politics. But it's hard and I'm a bit sympathetic to the attitude that a lot of home owners wind up with, when they look at how this system has massively benefitted them and in some cases provided the only pathway to comfortable retirement they ever seriously had. It's not all tech bros making that cash, there's a lot of people who were lower-middle-class in the 1970s or 80s who bought a house and now it's worth $900k, and they can sell it and move to New Mexico and retire comfortably, despite only having a small amount of money in their savings because they never could earn enough to really properly save for retirement. There's a lot of rich assholes but there's a lot of people who only clung to the shrinking and ever more difficult to stay in "middle class" because of the unearned appreciation in their house and prop 13, and those people can't quite act against their own financial best interests by advocating for ending prop 13. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 18:41 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 18:38
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The Cali variant is someone who’ll accuse you of being a coward when you express some trepidation about full communism now being a practical soloution, but will then lecture you on the troubles that “small landlords” face. Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 18:44 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 18:41
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side_burned posted:I have friend who has this weird quirk of defending landlords Your friend personally knows a landlord. Possibly a family member or friend they care about. Or they fully intend on becoming one.
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May 7, 2020 19:43
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Leperflesh posted:I bought a house in Concord in december 2009 and it has doubled in value. It's a place to live, but if me and my wife's parents die (I hope they don't any time soon but) when they go, we'll probably sell, take our enormous windfall profits, and go buy a house outright somewhere actually affordable to live. great effort post and I completely agree still gotta kill Prop 13, but I understand why so many are so reluctant
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May 7, 2020 19:58
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silence_kit posted:This is totally not true. People totally see their purchased primary residences as investments, and use the various government apparatuses to protect their investments. This is conservative almost by definition. I think you missed the point of my post
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May 7, 2020 20:07
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Would any proposition to kill Prop 13 be more palatable if there's some built-in thing to help lower-middle class people / retirees that would be worse off if it was repealed?
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May 7, 2020 20:17
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Cup Runneth Over posted:I think you missed the point of my post Oh I see, it can be interpreted that way. In that case your post is almost a tautology. It kind of ignores a lot of the things Leperflesh brings up on the subject of the psychology of people who own property, esp. in Coastal California, and why they behave the way they do. ‘You can avoid falling into the self-perpetuating cycle of land-ownership and FYGM politics by being pure of heart.’ silence_kit fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 20:17
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silence_kit posted:Oh I see, it can be interpreted that way. It's not a tautology, it's a simple statement: if housing were not a retirement and investment vehicle, or something that could be speculated upon (i.e. if it were public), then owning your home would not apply conservative pressure to your worldview. Tying home ownership to wealth and one's retirement was a deliberate strategy in America to make the electorate more reactionary, and it paid off in spades. The elimination of pensions, the gutting of social security -- it was a path taken, and these are the results. It's not the fault of the homeowner, as Leperflesh pointed out. It's simply capitalism doing its thing to people. Something something convince the lowest property owner he's better than the best tenant, something something won't notice you're picking his pocket.
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May 7, 2020 20:29
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DrSunshine posted:Would any proposition to kill Prop 13 be more palatable if there's some built-in thing to help lower-middle class people / retirees that would be worse off if it was repealed? Prop 13 supporters are going to argue that you're trying to murder grandma no matter how you structure it. Hell, I've seen people make that argument against repeals solely targeted at the commercial element of the prop. Apparently thinking Disney should pay a fair tax rate on their theme park means I want everyone's grandma forced into the street.
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May 7, 2020 20:32
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Cup Runneth Over posted:It's not a tautology, it's a simple statement: if housing were not a retirement and investment vehicle, or something that could be speculated upon (i.e. if it were public), then owning your home would not apply conservative pressure to your worldview. Tying home ownership to wealth and one's retirement was a deliberate strategy in America to make the electorate more reactionary, and it paid off in spades. The elimination of pensions, the gutting of social security -- it was a path taken, and these are the results. It's not the fault of the homeowner, as Leperflesh pointed out. It's simply capitalism doing its thing to people. Man, if I were to just replace 'Capitalism' with 'Sin', 'Original Sin', 'The Devil', or whatever in your posts, you'd sound like a conservative Christian preacher. Every time there is a societal failure, even if it occurs due to popular will, failure of government, etc., Capitalism is to blame. Your theory of politics is totally un-falsifiable. I feel like even if we were to live in a new world where there were was only public property, but the public property were to be shared or distributed unequally, you'd find some way to attribute the inequality to the Ghost of Capitalism.
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May 7, 2020 20:50
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silence_kit posted:I feel like even if we were to live in a new world where there were was only public property, but the public property were to be shared or distributed unequally, you'd find some way to attribute the inequality to the Ghost of Capitalism. sounds like a question worth answering let's give it a shot
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May 7, 2020 21:10
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Haha good luck!
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May 7, 2020 21:13
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Well if the problem isn't capitalism what is it?
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May 7, 2020 21:17
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Prop 13 supporters are going to argue that you're trying to murder grandma no matter how you structure it. Hell, I've seen people make that argument against repeals solely targeted at the commercial element of the prop. Apparently thinking Disney should pay a fair tax rate on their theme park means I want everyone's grandma forced into the street. Bingo. Any attempt to chip away at Prop 13, even in entirely reasonable cases like making huge commercial interests pay their fair share, will be framed as a) an attempt to kick grandma out of her house, and b) a secret plot to slippery slope towards a full repeal, which will kick grandma out of her house again, somehow.
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May 7, 2020 21:17
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Well if the problem isn't capitalism what is it? People
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May 7, 2020 21:26
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