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How are u posted:I strongly disagree with this basic premise, so the whole argument falls apart for me. Read a funding history book. Maybe even wiki "Paul von Hindenburg"
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May 7, 2020 20:33
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Phi230 posted:Read a funding history book. Maybe even wiki "Paul von Hindenburg" What's a good book on the history of government appropriations?
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May 7, 2020 20:34
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RBA Starblade posted:Well, that and the argument that if Trump wins we have a chance to stop climate armageddon that won't happen if Biden wins instead. Now, this is not my reason for not voting Biden (again, California, etc), but there is a pretty sound logic here if you don't trust Biden to do anything good for the climate and at best go back to Obama's "let oil pipelines bulldoze cultural sites and leak poo poo everywhere for years" stance. Let's say Trump wins. This is four years of climate denialism, which is bad. Very, very bad. Then there will be another election, and even if you don't think that it'll be one where a strong left-ish candidate will represent the Democrats, it will definitely be one other than Joe Biden, one of the worst Dems on the climate, and thus another chance to try to make the party take climate change seriously. On the other hand, if Biden wins, we will have four years of oil and coal companies guiding his environmental policy, and given both Obama and Clinton most of the damage Trump did will become the new status quo rather than be fixed. He definitely will not do anything remotely close to sufficient for the entirety of his first term, and then he may well get a second term, which is another four years of letting the planet burn. Or maybe he'll die or only run for one term, meaning we get a different Dem candidate for president... Except it will almost certainly be his VP, who is extremely unlikely to be any better on the climate than he is because they're going to be part of his administration, listen to the same ghouls, and so on, and they could have up to two more terms; replacing them with someone better will be nigh-impossible because the DNC will rally behind their incumbent and may shut the primaries down entirely, just like how some Republican states have done for Trump this year (and how New York Democrats are trying to do as well). Or maybe the 2024 Republican candidate beats Biden/his VP; they definitely won't be any good on the climate, and again, could have up to two terms instead of just one and will have incumbency advantage helping them make that happen. So a Biden victory pretty much guarantees at least eight, possibly twelve years of effectively nothing being done about the environment before there's a reasonable chance of electing someone who will actually take the problem seriously. Four years of inaction is extremely bad. Eight to twelve years of it pretty much guarantees our doom, even if each of those eight+ years is slightly less bad than each year in the four year scenario. If you don't think that Biden will take meaningful action on the environment, then it's hard not to conclude that his victory means that's it, game over, we're doomed. And even most of his defenders here have admitted that Biden will not be close to sufficient in this regard, so... That's basically an admission that he's going to doom any chances of saving the planet; I've yet to hear any ways that he doesn't that aren't outright fantastical and not at all based in reality, though it'd admittedly be nice if there were. So, what do you think? Do you think Biden will actually take necessary action, or pick a VP who would take the climate seriously even though he doesn't? If not, how do you reason that Biden winning doesn't guarantee a minimum of eight years of less-than-nothing for the environment and near-certain climate apocalypse? How are u posted:No. I believe that Biden will be *better* on climate than Donald Trump. If those are my two choices then it is extremely clear who will be better on climate. Same to you; does "better" here still result in inevitable climate armageddon? If so, how is that actually better in anything but the most meaningless, pedantic way? If Biden does win and shows the same unwillingness to actually take meaningful action on the environment that he always has, and pretty much declares Trump's changes the new status quo, what will you do? Do you have any idea or plan for how you would handle this? Are you just going to accept the death of the planet because someone with a D next to their name is the one responsible? Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 20:35
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I really don't understand how the most hysterical people in this thread who absolutely hate Joe Biden aren't actually politically active irl. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 7, 2020 20:36
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What makes you think Biden won't do anything. If you think Biden and Trump are the same on the environment you're loving nuts. Just bringing back Obama's executive actions on the environment will help us far more than keeping the status quo.
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May 7, 2020 20:38
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Chuka Umana posted:I really don't understand how the most hysterical people in this thread who absolutely hate Joe Biden aren't actually politically active irl. Weird way to admit you're in the process of doxing a bunch of internet posters.
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May 7, 2020 20:39
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Comforting to see the lesser evil crowd making peace with woefully insufficient action on climate change and overthrowing inconveniently unsubservient countries, but with the mask mostly back on so it's for "democracy", and with "good intentions", and plausibly deniable when the results and true intentions maybe start to become clear years later and ever so slightly edge into general awareness. Truly we are ready for the lesser evil Democrat administration and the waves of death and displacement due to climate and regime change With Best Intentions, and bonus austerity for all(poors) - dems can make the hard choices after all, if only better things were possible - vote blue no matter who!
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May 7, 2020 20:39
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Chuka Umana posted:What makes you think Biden won't do anything. That's not at all what that post says lol
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May 7, 2020 20:39
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Gumball Gumption posted:Weird way to admit you're in the process of doxing a bunch of internet posters. No, I'm trying to say that the most radical people in this thread and in SA in general are very online people who's reality and ideology has no relevance in society today due to the lack of any visible political activism in real life.
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May 7, 2020 20:41
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How are u posted:Sure you can say that, but the practical real world effect of what you propose (voting 3rd party to throw the election to Trump to punish the centrist Dems) is an argument that Trump needs to be re-elected. "I'm just being practical" I say, as I close the gas chamber door (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 7, 2020 20:41
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hobotrashcanfires posted:Comforting to see the lesser evil crowd making peace with woefully insufficient action on climate change and overthrowing inconveniently unsubservient countries, but with the mask mostly back on so it's for "democracy", and with "good intentions", and plausibly deniable when the results and true intentions maybe start to become clear years later and ever so slightly edge into general awareness. So we should not vote and wait for climate accelerationism and then...run on reverting back to hunter gatherer society in 2024.
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May 7, 2020 20:42
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Chuka Umana posted:No, I'm trying to say that the most radical people in this thread and in SA in general are very online people who's reality and ideology has no relevance in society today due to the lack of any visible political activism in real life. This says more about your ignorance than others alleged laziness
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May 7, 2020 20:42
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like it's a direct chain from -> it's not happening so we don't have to do anything -> it's happening but we're not causing it so we don't have to do anything -> it's happening and we're causing it but we can afford to wait so we don't have to do anything -> it's happening and we're causing it and we can't afford to wait but the scientists' plans are all too impractical we'll find another way so we don't have to do anything -> it's happening and we're causing it and we can't afford to wait and there is no other way but future technology will reverse it so we don't have to do anything -> it's happening and we're causing it and we can't afford to wait and there is no other way and the future technology didn't arrive, but it's too late to stop it now so we don't have to do anything as each step becomes untenable in the face of new evidence and has to be abandoned for the next bullshit the Republicans fall between steps 1 and 3 depending on how willing they are to ignore evidence, a few of the reasonable intelligent conservative columnist types are at step 4 with Biden
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May 7, 2020 20:42
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I honestly feel bad for How are u, given that they’re at least trying to argue. It’s a shame that D&D separates US politics into a “good” thread and a “bad” thread, even if they call it “general election” instead of “thunderdome.” No discussion, no debate, just a thread for dogpiling liberals and a thread where liberals can safely do nothing but whine about Trump. Waltzing Along posted:My advice: GTFO of this poo poo hole. This isn’t actually advice for the vast majority of us who have no ability whatsoever to immigrate to a better country. A lot of the people I know can’t even afford to get out of this lovely state.
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May 7, 2020 20:42
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Chuka Umana posted:No, I'm trying to say that the most radical people in this thread and in SA in general are very online people who's reality and ideology has no relevance in society today due to the lack of any visible political activism in real life. Oh, so you aren't in the process of doxxing them, but you know who they are and could doxx them at any point? Cool. Cool cool cool.
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May 7, 2020 20:43
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Unoriginal Name posted:"I'm just being practical" I say, as I close the gas chamber door Wow, we've reached the point that voting for Joe Biden is exactly like the holocaust.
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May 7, 2020 20:43
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Eminai posted:Oh, so you aren't in the process of doxxing them, but you know who they are and could doxx them at any point? Cool. Cool cool cool. Where are the mass movements of leftists?
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May 7, 2020 20:44
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Somfin posted:Is the fact that Inslee's plan was better than Bernie's relevant to discussion of Biden's plan which is worse than both, which is where you started from, or are all of the plans actually bad so we shouldn't bother talking about who might have actually had an okay one versus whose are noticeably awful It isn't even remotely true that Inslee's plan was better than Bernie's. "Inslee being best on climate change" was just one of those myths that found its way into the discourse.
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May 7, 2020 20:45
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Chuka Umana posted:Where are the mass movements of leftists? They just got told by the DNC to shut the gently caress up and vote for Joe Biden or else it’s their fault Trump will win
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May 7, 2020 20:45
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Chuka Umana posted:Wow, we've reached the point that voting for Joe Biden is exactly like the holocaust. how did we get desert concentration camp again
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May 7, 2020 20:45
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Chuka Umana posted:So we should not vote and wait for climate accelerationism and then...run on reverting back to hunter gatherer society in 2024. "Not voting the way I prefer is accelerationism". If only we could be as politically active as you, whom I'm sure is working hard to get Biden elected.
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May 7, 2020 20:46
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Chuka Umana posted:Wow, we've reached the point that voting for Joe Biden is exactly like the holocaust. if you're a Yemeni, it is
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May 7, 2020 20:47
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rko posted:They just got told by the DNC to shut the gently caress up and vote for Joe Biden or else it’s their fault Trump will win You know that's a cop out.
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May 7, 2020 20:47
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rko posted:This isn’t actually advice for the vast majority of us who have no ability whatsoever to immigrate to a better country. A lot of the people I know can’t even afford to get out of this lovely state. The majority of us have no ability to influence policy, either. Finding a way to leave is the lesser of two evils. I meant that as a joke but now that I look at it I think it fits as a serious statement, as well.
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May 7, 2020 20:48
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When has Joe Biden advocated for the murder of Jewish people? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 7, 2020 20:48
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When the threadshitter leaps with wholehearted agreement into your arguments you might wanna think more deeply about them.
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May 7, 2020 20:48
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Chuka Umana posted:What makes you think Biden won't do anything. Good job not actually reading or addressing anything I said.
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May 7, 2020 20:48
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Trying to debate a liberal is a pointless exercise, same as debating a neo nazi. They're both irrationally attached to their ideologies for external reasons, IE class or race. Both subscribe exclusively to idealist garbage, and magical thinking You will never convince the scum of DnD of anything. They have a vested interest in the status quo and will never even think to change it. The answer is the same for both, bully them, hate them, and kick their rear end when possible Phi230 fucked around with this message at 20:51 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 20:48
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Chuka Umana posted:Where are the mass movements of leftists? Fat jokes aside, 50 Something Awful posters would in no way constitute a "mass movement" noticeable on a global scale. Feel free to add a couple of zeroes to that number if it makes you feel more like a brave truth-teller diving into the den of leftist ideologues. But also, since you asked, https://theintercept.com/2020/04/25/coronavirus-rent-strike-may/
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May 7, 2020 20:48
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Chuka Umana posted:Wow, we've reached the point that voting for Joe Biden is exactly like the holocaust. Joe won't kill as many people as the holocaust, just a couple orders of magnitude more at a minimum from not dealing with climate change The holocaust will be a forgotten footnote compared to how the world will deal with a couple billion climate refugees
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May 7, 2020 20:58
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Waltzing Along posted:The majority of us have no ability to influence policy, either. Finding a way to leave is the lesser of two evils. I find this very hard to take. You’re saying “find a way to walk” to someone who is trying to point out all the folks in wheelchairs. At least bitching about our dystopia is still free. Chuka Umana posted:You know that's a cop out. I’m being completely honest with you about what I think. If I’m wrong, feel free to explain why.
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May 7, 2020 20:59
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Okay, then force Joe Biden to pass a broad climate change bill. Make him do it.
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May 7, 2020 21:05
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rko posted:I’m being completely honest with you about what I think. If I’m wrong, feel free to explain why. They're starting to take pages from the right on tactics more than ever, none of them are trying to debate in good faith.
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May 7, 2020 21:07
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Chuka Umana posted:Okay, then force Joe Biden to pass a broad climate change bill. Make him do it. what do you suggest? and also, why haven't you done this yet if it's so easy? Condiv fucked around with this message at 21:12 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 21:07
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big mean giraffe posted:They're starting to take pages from the right on tactics more than ever, none of them are trying to debate in good faith. It's just endless. "I'm not voting for Biden, I don't agree with him on anything" "Make him do the things you want" "Ok, I'm withholding my vote and advocating others do the same until he makes real promises on these things" "Why do you want Trump to win" "I don't but I don't agree with Biden on anything" "Make him do the things you want"
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May 7, 2020 21:09
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Chuka Umana posted:Okay, then force Joe Biden to pass a broad climate change bill. Make him do it. Seems like a waste of resources
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May 7, 2020 21:14
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All the liberal war crime apologia for the Bush years lately is really getting under my skin and I think we need to remind people of just how bad those years were. Anybody interested in me starting a “let’s re-litigate the Bush years” thread? I think it might be fun to go back through the news archives week by week and relive all the greatest hits along with the smaller scandals everybody’s forgotten about (remember Terry Schaivo!?).
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May 7, 2020 21:14
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https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1258466654348083204?s=19 https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/1258442565445091330?s=19 Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 21:14
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Chuka Umana posted:Okay, then force Joe Biden to pass a broad climate change bill. Make him do it. We can’t force anything in a world where our few political leaders won’t even stand up for their supporters and are bending over backwards to try and find a way to support a monster. Things will have to get much, much worse for the left to truly try force and mass action. And when they do, they’ll encounter our fully militarized police force. You know, like when Occupy Wall Street tried to get Obama to move left. I’m just hopeless now, frankly.
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May 7, 2020 21:20
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love the Hill's dishonest headlines
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May 7, 2020 21:22
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