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Josef bugman posted:Also chicken turned out very nicely. Literally falls off the bone and is extremely nice tasting! Hell yes! Also no no countdown, did someone buy a weird ad perhaps?
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May 8, 2020 22:24
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Mebh posted:Been non stop operatic national pride style music playing from some street party for the last 2 hours. Just cut off now at exactly 10pm thank christ as it was really starting to grate. The gently caress is wrong with people? We're in a Labour stronghold in a mining/steel town and they all still buy massively into the poo poo Tory VE day propaganda. People want to be proud of the things they belong to. Why is this difficult to understand?
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May 8, 2020 22:26
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:stories from america https://twitter.com/axlrose/status/1258265406050951169
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May 8, 2020 22:27
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OwlFancier posted:Hell yes! Must be. It's gone now. I also am on PC and not phone so that might be it. Was really good, now I have enough stored food to last me for 8 days at minimum!
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May 8, 2020 22:27
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Trin Tragula posted:People want to be proud of the things they belong to. Why is this difficult to understand? Yeah VE day stuff goes far deeper than any party loyalty. I guarantee those towns sent a hell of a lot of young boys (and some girls) to fight the fash and not all of them came home, or came home whole. Much as I hate how it's being turned into a nationalist nonsense celebration I can't get salty about the underlying thing of people being glad that we beat the Nazis until the rubble bounced. Could do with a bit more of that spirit these days itbt 
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May 8, 2020 22:31
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Trin Tragula posted:People want to be proud of the things they belong to. Why is this difficult to understand? Because the idea that you belong to the country is one that requires a fairly oblivious viewpoint. As is the idea that you could be proud of it even if you did.
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May 8, 2020 22:34
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Trin Tragula posted:People want to be proud of the things they belong to. Why is this difficult to understand? lol in what possible sense have the proletariat ever 'belonged to' any nation state outside of hollow rhetoric encouraging them to sacrifice themselves
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May 8, 2020 22:40
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Ms Adequate posted:Yeah VE day stuff goes far deeper than any party loyalty. I guarantee those towns sent a hell of a lot of young boys (and some girls) to fight the fash and not all of them came home, or came home whole. Our Nazis are celebrating beating their Nazis.
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May 8, 2020 22:43
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baka kaba posted:vox pop: haha gently caress yeah!!! Yes!! VC Day  7 :cryingcolonelsanders.gif:
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May 8, 2020 22:43
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Trin Tragula posted:People want to be proud of the things they belong to. Why is this difficult to understand? It isn't difficult to understand, it's just that lots of those sources of 'belonging' like nation or race are understandably seen as kind of iffy to people on the left. I will say that ceding that ground so much that you'd call VE day 'Tory propoganda' is just loving stupid though it's untrue and is a massive self-own.
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May 8, 2020 22:45
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The specific push to celebrate it at this time in this place is tory propaganda, because its function is to distract from the failures of the government and their culpability in tens thousands of preventable deaths. It is a circus, which works to rob it of any other meaning it might have had, which frankly I would also dispute.
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May 8, 2020 22:48
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That's the tory voting public who thinks Boris is doing a good job
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May 8, 2020 22:55
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OwlFancier posted:The specific push to celebrate it at this time in this place is tory propaganda, because its function is to distract from the failures of the government and their culpability in tens thousands of preventable deaths. It is a circus, which works to rob it of any other meaning it might have had, which frankly I would also dispute. Isn't that just dictated by the 75th anniversary though? We'd still be celebrating it today with no COVID and if Corbyn was PM.
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May 8, 2020 22:58
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OwlFancier posted:The specific push to celebrate it at this time in this place It's the 75th anniversary VE day, I'm not sure other times and places would have made much sense? The right wing hijacking something doesn't stop the thing itself being real, it just isn't a circus and the meaning is still there. Like keep being disgusted at this dogshit government and it's evil cynicism but don't accidently actually fall for their framing.
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May 8, 2020 22:59
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OwlFancier posted:There is a reason nationalism is a favourite tool of the right and that's because it works on people. sometimes I think about a line I used to use when people were asking why I am so passionately terrified and repulsed by nationalism - "this is a hill that I might quite literally die on, so I'm happy to do it rhetorically". been thinking about it a lot of late.
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May 8, 2020 23:01
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Bobstar posted:I had to look up mawkish because it looked like it might have an interesting etymology, and I was right: This is amazing, thanks for sharing!
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May 8, 2020 23:03
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Prince John posted:Isn't that just dictated by the 75th anniversary though? We'd still be celebrating it today with no COVID and if Corbyn was PM. "If Corbyn was in charge we'd be flying Soviet Flags" - My latest piece in the times by Puce Wattlegammon
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May 8, 2020 23:05
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Prince John posted:Isn't that just dictated by the 75th anniversary though? We'd still be celebrating it today with no COVID and if Corbyn was PM. but we do have covid, and a "lockdown", but everyone (including the BBC) is magically pretending we don't and everything's normal a government that was serious about any of this would have issued warnings not to have gatherings in advance, and the police would be breaking them up and issuing fines (like they've been happily doing before this), but that's not happening because this kind of thing plays so much into their idea of British identity, and also the whole war and patriotism rhetoric surrounding the corona response
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May 8, 2020 23:05
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if anyone had a time machine to go back to June last year, they could probably find a better use for that than arranging this bank holiday as a distraction
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May 8, 2020 23:10
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And why do you think there is so much desire to repeatedly celebrate anniversaries of historical events that perpetuate the myth of grate britane the eternal righteous imperial power? They're always digging something up with a round number attached to it because they serve a purpose. Nobody celebrating it actually understands what happened, because world war 2 is a myth at this point, in the old, literal meaning of the word. It's been so utterly demolished by decades of media portrayal that the actual events that happened are meaningless in the face of what people believe happened, and what people believe happened is intrinsically tied up in nationalistic horseshit about how great britain is, was, and always will be. Everything is in service to the perpetuation of that mythic history. And the function of it is to make peoples brains melt into puddles of mush the minute they see someone waving a union jack. Its function is to obstruct any attempt to criticise someone doing that appropriately, or any suggestion that maybe we shouldn't have more "just" wars in the future, or that the second world war wasn't in fact a good thing and was in fact a pointless waste of life and resources on all sides. The second world war at this point is nothing more than the bit at the end of a movie where the hero kicks in the door and shoots all the bad guys and gets the girl at the end. And is given exactly the same level of critical evaluation. Why does the conflict exist in the first place? Who cares? It serves exactly the same function in society, too, except people point at it as if that utterly contextless telling of the story was a real thing that actually happened and therefore should be the model for the future. The second world war is gone, it is separated from us today not just by time but by an ocean of lies and hollywood reimaginings and propaganda. You, personally, might be able to get close to the truth of it, with a lot of study, but the popular conception of it is fiction. It might as well be arguing over harry potter characters, because it's 99% propagandistic horseshit that has been told and retold for decades. It's as real as the siege of Troy. Or bible stories. And like both of those its only function today is as a political tool in the hands of the powerful. It's people cosplaying the blitz by having a picnic in the street and singing vera lynn while the government kills more people than the blitz ever did. That is what today is. That is what it will always be. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:16 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 23:10
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https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/1258840112353419272 my interest in the labour party died the day corbyn stepped down so just lmao at this clown car of a political party now. gently caress them and gently caress anyone defending them. burn in hell labour hahaha.
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May 8, 2020 23:13
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VE Day/Liberation Day/Victory over Fascism Day has the potential to be good, as long as it steers away from insular nationalism and Churchill/Spitfire/late 40s Britain cosplay. Fell at CP like all 8channers. Cerv posted:if anyone had a time machine to go back to June last year, they could probably find a better use for that than arranging this bank holiday as a distraction
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May 8, 2020 23:14
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Guavanaut posted:VE Day/Liberation Day/Victory over Fascism Day has the potential to be good, as long as it steers away from insular nationalism and Churchill/Spitfire/late 40s Britain cosplay. what, like go into the bunker to pop champagne when he pulls the trigger?
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May 8, 2020 23:19
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I was thinking more "would you use a time machine to reschedule VE day" twinned with the ever popular "would you use a time machine to kill Hitler" question, but going back to his bunker just to say "lmao get reckd" works too.
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May 8, 2020 23:22
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I’ve considered it and I would. But only if I can take the squad of Ghanian pallbearers and the concept of EDM music with me too
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May 8, 2020 23:25
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Guavanaut posted:as long as it steers away from insular nationalism and Churchill/Spitfire/late 40s Britain cosplay. 
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May 8, 2020 23:39
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gh0stpinballa posted:https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/1258840112353419272 It's all the worst parts of Miliband labour.
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May 8, 2020 23:41
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Guavanaut posted:Paul Thomas in The Paper That Supported Hitler right on cue... I see 5 subliminal nazi salutes.
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May 8, 2020 23:43
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Guavanaut posted:Paul Thomas in The Paper That Supported Hitler right on cue... I'm either the brown guy 'sieg heil'-ing in the background, or the presumably muslim person wearing a surgical mask, who's bringing the cake like a good servant
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May 8, 2020 23:44
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Guavanaut posted:Paul Thomas in The Paper That Supported Hitler right on cue... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDuHXTG3uyY
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May 8, 2020 23:45
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Guavanaut posted:I was thinking more "would you use a time machine to reschedule VE day" twinned with the ever popular "would you use a time machine to kill Hitler" question, but going back to his bunker just to say "lmao get reckd" works too. Mein Fuhrer, a line of infinite people just appeared outside. Half of them want your autograph, the other half are carrying machetes.
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May 8, 2020 23:46
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Guavanaut posted:Paul Thomas in The Paper That Supported Hitler right on cue... will someone tell those kids to get further apart
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May 8, 2020 23:47
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OwlFancier posted:And why do you think there is so much desire to repeatedly celebrate anniversaries of historical events that perpetuate the myth of grate britane the eternal righteous imperial power? They're always digging something up with a round number attached to it because they serve a purpose. Based post, start a podcast, but you're making so many false assertions and then just building on them as though they were true. I know that in WW2 almost half a million working class lads died fighting, it was under nationalistic duress sure but the material consequence of their sacrifice was that Nazism was stopped. It's possible to recognise that fact while also not buying into right-wing framing so I'm not sure what point your presenting the entire event as pure narrativising has. You're so pissed off at the reframing that you're deconstructing and dismissing WW2 as a historical event, it seems dumb why not use your rhetoric to utilise the history instead? Like you think the NHS gets created without WW2?
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May 8, 2020 23:48
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What do you think history is if not a story loosely based on things that might have happened one time? What about the world we live in today gives you the idea that the storybook concept of the past is not the driving force, rather than actual historical events? How do you make left wing rhetoric out of fetishizing britiain's imperial past when the entire media industry is working to twist it into right wing narratives? If your takeaway from world war 2 is that the only way to defeat a bad nation state with an army is a good nation state with an army you've already ceded the left ground entirely. We'd best just keep producing fascists so we can fight them again until the planet is dust. Also I'm not angry about the loss of history to narrative reframing, to be clear I do not think that history has ever existed other than through narratives. There was never anything to lose, historical truth can not exist in the mass consciousness save in those who live through it. All that ever exists after that is stories. And the function of the stories today are to utterly neutralize whatever ideas might have established the postwar consensus. I could posit that the specific bent our idea of world war 2 takes is a property of living in an environment dominated by mass media, whereby editorial control of the stories we are exposed to is centered in middle and upper class types even when they aren't massively overseen by actual right wing state actors (like hollywood absolutely is, the US military has a massive amount of direct editorial control in response for helping provide actors and props for war films) but the central concept of history becoming divorced from reality the minute it moves out of the lived experience of the majority of people holds true regardless. The stories might be somewhat different if we lived in a different time, but they would still not be reflective of reality. The people out celebrating today did not experience world war 2, they saw a lot of world war 2 movies and propaganda and have integrated those into their identity, and those are what they're celebrating. Those are all they can celebrate, because those are all that exist today. It is historical flavoured masturbation. And to be clear, I do not object to that in principle, there are left wing equivalents of that, a lot of us do it on mayday and we can take some of those ideas and stories from the labour movement's past and use them to inform our current lives in useful ways, but the stories and propaganda associated with the war are not ours, they do not serve us, they can not serve us, they were created and are put about by the right and celebrate their ideas. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:48 on May 9, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 23:55
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Guavanaut posted:Paul Thomas in The Paper That Supported Hitler right on cue... British facists trying to take out a plane that killed Nazis via an unorthodox cork bomb. An accurate cartoon.
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May 9, 2020 00:09
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That really was one loving poo poo day.
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May 9, 2020 00:15
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I dunno, I had the bank holiday off and I didn't go to any VE poo poo, I just drank a lot and played that loving Sacred Coil final mission in xcom over and over. It was pretty great.
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May 9, 2020 00:22
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I did a quiz with my friends, it was pretty good apart from the fact that i spent all week procrastinating my actual work so I didn't even get started on procrastinating writing my round until this morning got it finished before the second round though, just did "this day in history" with people's birthdays it was actually fairly entertaining if I do say so myself
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May 9, 2020 00:30
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The current VE day propaganda isn't about *beating the hateful fascist Nazi's*, it's about *showing Jerry what for* There is a broad understanding that Hitler did all sorts of awful stuff, y'know, like the holocaust and what not but broadly for a significant whack of the country, that's as far as it goes, beyond that it's just "We're the good guys, we beat the bad guys" and most couldn't tell you the Soviets were good guys right up until they weren't. Nobody in this thread will say that stopping the Nazi's was a bad thing, but the way in which it's being celebrated -- one where multiple outlets are calling it Victory *over* Europe instead of Victory In Europe -- is all about bunting and blitz spirit and affirming that we knew best and Jerry just needs to get back to his own country and stop annoying us in any way we've decided this week.
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May 9, 2020 00:32
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OwlFancier posted:If your takeaway from world war 2 is that the only way to defeat a bad nation state with an army is a good nation state with an army you've already ceded the left ground entirely. We'd best just keep producing fascists so we can fight them again until the planet is dust. I agree with most everything you've said but I'm leery of this - unless you've developed international class consciousness to the point where fascism is an impossibility any fascist state can only be beaten by the application of external military might. I'm not certain that acknowledging that is ceding the left ground. I suppose then you're getting into questions about the nature of the nation state itself though, and how socialism might interact with the concept prior to the establishment of global communism.
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May 9, 2020 00:55
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