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Hey, does anyone remember which of the archived Gundam threads had people riffing on the R&D stage of mobile suit design? The only one I immediately remember is the Tallgeese one: "I've got it. A mobile suit so fast that the acceleration will kill the pilot. You don't have to decide now, just think about it."
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May 7, 2020 22:42
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| # ? May 10, 2024 12:23 |
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Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOON: The Stupid One-Year War
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May 7, 2020 22:48
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S.D. posted:Hey, does anyone remember which of the archived Gundam threads had people riffing on the R&D stage of mobile suit design? The only one I immediately remember is the Tallgeese one: The great thing is how little that description narrows things down. Every Gundam faction has at least a few projects where there's got to be a pretty crazy story behind them ("Just hear me out, Jim: Spiders."), but Zeon has some real standouts in the horrible idea department, made all the more obvious by the occasional members of the team at Zeonic who kept saying things like "Maybe just... a Zaku but better. The Zaku worked.". Gjallarhorn's probably the dullest people at the party, but even they have Yamazin Toka, who's very excited about horrific human experiments.
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May 7, 2020 23:32
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Doing Gjallarhorn in that style still ends up with something like "So we take this guys brain and put it into a really loving big Grace, and then we give it huge legs and sweet axes and this is gonna own" and " Remember those weapons we aren't allowed to use? So I'm thinking orbital bombardment"
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May 7, 2020 23:59
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God, thank you. Those few pages are/were amazing.
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May 8, 2020 00:28
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Zedd posted:Doing Gjallarhorn in that style still ends up with something like "So we take this guys brain and put it into a really loving big Grace, and then we give it huge legs and sweet axes and this is gonna own" and " Remember those weapons we aren't allowed to use? So I'm thinking orbital bombardment" The railguns are perfectly sensible. "So those wonderweapons from the Calamity War? I know we're officially not using them any more due to international treaty... stop laughing, Sven. Anyway, Lord Elion's been talking about how pirates have been getting bolder since Edmonton, and how we need something to even the odds if full on war erupts again. Don't worry about PR, he knows people. I figure we go with something basic. We can't make more Gundams, but the Graze is a solid platform, and if we reuse the monkey models we've been selling to handle reloading, we can get these ready for mass production before the EB-08 finishes testing, giving us a stopgap in case, I don't know, some dumbass reactivates a Mobile Armor or something. I know none of us want to commit war crimes... drat it, Sven, this is serious. I know we don't want to get caught committing war crimes, but I think we all can agree with the boss that a stable solar system demands a strong Gjallarhorn, and that means we need something to deal with Gundams, Space Rats, and anything else too dangerous for a standard Graze. So let's get to it, people. Rebels don't kill themselves, even if we try to make it look that way."
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May 8, 2020 01:12
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These were good times. "It's not like his name is Lt. Col. Measured Response."
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May 8, 2020 01:30
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Still the best part from that thread:closeted republican posted:HOLY poo poo I SAW HIM AGAIN TODAY!!!
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May 8, 2020 03:16
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Hall of fame post.
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May 8, 2020 03:39
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That post makes me die inside everytime it's so good. And clearly the voice of reason in Wing's R&D team was Howard, who hosed off to salvage and probably smoke a bunch of weed on Earth. I can respect that.
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May 8, 2020 04:27
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amigolupus posted:Still the best part from that thread: Droyer we should get this in the OP.
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May 8, 2020 04:28
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i like how zeta gundam starts out with camille seeing char and immediately going gently caress yeah i want to be team up guys
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May 9, 2020 20:47
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Warmachine posted:
So I finished this and have come to a conclusion: OOF is the 0083 Stardust Memory you ordered from Wish.
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May 9, 2020 21:51
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Stairmaster posted:i like how zeta gundam starts out with camille seeing char and immediately going gently caress yeah i want to be team up guys Kamille's probably the closest Char's ever come to being a good mentor figure. (Which is deeply, deeply sad.) Kamille thinks Char is cool, and is way into the whole Contolism thing... but Kamille also calls Char on his endless mountains of poo poo, up to and including punching him out. Hardly a wonder that Char took the ending of Zeta so badly.
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May 9, 2020 22:02
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I've never got the impression he even knows about what happened to Kamille, because he's defeated by Haman before Kamille goes ham on Scirocco and then leaves off-screen and we never see him realize anything happened. He's not even that strong a Newtype, or one with a pre-existing Newtype connection to Kamille to headcanon it as him finding out off-screen via Newtype senses.
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May 10, 2020 00:41
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tsob posted:I've never got the impression he even knows about what happened to Kamille, because he's defeated by Haman before Kamille goes ham on Scirocco and then leaves off-screen and we never see him realize anything happened. He's not even that strong a Newtype, or one with a pre-existing Newtype connection to Kamille to headcanon it as him finding out off-screen via Newtype senses. Char and Kamille absolutely have a newtype connection. Char is sensing Kamille from literally the first episode (where he mistakes him for Amuro for a moment.)
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May 10, 2020 01:12
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ImpAtom posted:Char and Kamille absolutely have a newtype connection. Char is sensing Kamille from literally the first episode (where he mistakes him for Amuro for a moment.) I'm going to wager that this is just Kamille being a bonkers powerful newtype already, and not Char being exceptionally good at being a newtype (he isn't).
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May 10, 2020 04:21
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Warmachine posted:I'm going to wager that this is just Kamille being a bonkers powerful newtype already, and not Char being exceptionally good at being a newtype (he isn't). I'm not saying that it is a sign that Char is an exceptionally good Newtype. I'm saying that "Char felt what happened to Kamille" is entirely possible because the dude was feeling Kamille before he even met him.
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May 10, 2020 04:57
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char was a dick, but not so much that he'd simply forget kamille existed once he was out of sight. he certainly would have found out what happened to kamille, whether by newtype flashes or otherwise. if nothing else, he certainly would have sought out info on all the known powerful newtypes while planning the events of cca. the dude had a very healthy respect for the absolute bullshit newtype kids can pull.
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May 10, 2020 05:09
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ImpAtom posted:Char and Kamille absolutely have a newtype connection. Char is sensing Kamille from literally the first episode (where he mistakes him for Amuro for a moment.) Newtypes can sense the "pressure" or "presence" of other Newtypes, but the fact that Char could mistake the presence of Kamille for that of Amuro, someone he has met and fought before, and someone that he was outright obsessed with in the latter half of 0079, kind of proves that he's not great at picking up on the subtleties of Newtype sensation. The ability to recognize the presence of other Newtypes seems to be a very different thing from Newtype connections too, since it's more just recognizing something nearby rather than sharing an intimate moment with them that binds them together. He may have had a Newtype moment with Amuro at the climax of 0079 too (though it's also possible both had a shared moment with Lalah, or both had seperate simultaneous moments with Lalah), and was still unsure about Amuro's presence regardless. gimme the GOD drat candy posted:char was a dick, but not so much that he'd simply forget kamille existed once he was out of sight. This is exactly the kind of dick Casval reads as to me. He moved on from the AEUG as soon as either he'd lost to Haman (well, more of a draw; but I can see why he'd take it as a loss) and/or the Titans were done and once he has moved on from something he seems to leave pretty much everything about his past behind with the old persona. He wasn't making a new identity though, just taking up an old one; one that didn't know or care about Kamille. Char in Char's Counterattack is very similar to Char in 0079 in his obsession with Amuro and grief over Lalah, and the only thing that seems to remain from Zeta seems to be his desire to push Ereism as a necessity. Char being upset about Kamille isn't actually necessary to explain his character in Char's Counterattack, because he was already invested in Ereism throughout Zeta and that's what his plan in Char's Counterattack is at least superficially about and the only thing necessary to get Char from his place of "I'll try working with Earthnoids to get this done" to "Earthnoids are to blame, so this is happening regardless of how many of them it kills" is time, because Char was always an impatient person and even in Zeta he displays some of that impatience with people. He wonders about whether it's better to make people in to Cyber Newtypes later in the show, specifically because if they don't, then the Earth will be destroyed before people evolve in to Newtypes on their own, for instance. Char only really viewed Newtypes as a tool throughout 0079, and that seems to be his attitude in Char's Counterattack too (again, compartmentalized personality; Char is different to Quattro in how he views Newtypes), and Lalah was the only one Char ever seemed to care for personally. I can absolutely see Char as having seen Kamille as just one more tool that was broken when trying to pursue his agenda, and then moving on from that. More than that, it doesn't really make sense he'd be so angry at Earthnoids in particular in Char's Counterattack as a consequence of what happened to Kamille, because it was a Spacenoid that hurt Kamille while Kamille was shouting in Newtype that he was willing to give up his life to kill Scirocco. Additionally, Newtype connections are very specific, so it just seems weird that Char would end up getting so angry over Kamille being hurt when if he knew what happened through Newtype connection, he should know that Kamille was perfectly fine mentally and that it was just his ability to control his body that was affected. Kamille is already able to communicate with Judau in the first (proper) episode of ZZ, which is only a day or two later. At best, he would sense that something related to Newtypes was happening somewhere nearby and get a vague sense that maybe it involves Kamille or something;, going by past examples. tsob fucked around with this message at 10:23 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 10:19
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Char is absolutely not the kind of person who forgets people instantly. That's part of his problem. He can't let things go. It is his defining feature. He is colored by everything that happened before to the point he is tremendously unhealthy. Merely changing his name doesn't mean he leaves things behind because he already went from Casval -> Edward -> Char while holding all of it. The only time he really tried to 'let things go' was when he was being Quattro and that was explicitly him being out of character and eating crow for it. The dude goes to his dying breath insisting on having a duel to the death with the guy he fought when he was a teenager while acting in the name of his decades-dead father and crying out the name of his decades-dead girlfriend. Char does not move on.
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May 10, 2020 10:32
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ImpAtom posted:The dude goes to his dying breath insisting on having a duel to the death with the guy he fought when he was a teenager while acting in the name of his decades-dead father and crying out the name of his decades-dead girlfriend. Char does not move on. The majority of that was stuff that Char in particular was obsessed with though. Defeating Amuro and the death of Lalah were things the persona of Char was obsessed with; not Casval in general. The only thing that wasn't unique to Char was his father's ideals, and even then, there's seeds of that in 0079. If anything carried over, it was those ideals; not being upset about Kamille. Char being upset about Kamille isn't necessary to explain anything about Char's viewpoint or actions in Char's Counterattack, and Char never mentions or even implies anything to do with Kamille; so why invoke upset over Kamille at all? Injecting hurt over Kamille basically requires a headcanon explanation that Char sensed what happened offscreen in a way that he was never particularly proficient with, completely misread what happened and got upset for entirley the wrong reasons; then using all that to explain something that is already explained a different way in Char's Counterattack so that you can have the character of Char arrive at the same point he was at all along. I just don't see the need. Or even the point, beyond "Well, Quattro liked Kamille and Char isn't all bad, therefor Char was motivated by Kamille". Edit: And yes, I'm aware that a video game cutscene tries to set Char in Char's Counterattack up as having been motivated by what happened to Kamille. tsob fucked around with this message at 11:00 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 10:40
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tsob posted:
Or he could have, you know, read the news. He's not completely ignorant. Kamille wasn't just "that kid Char liked". Kamille was the Newtype Char always hoped for. Where Amuro was practical minded and stuck to the personal level, Kamille was, as Amuro said, better. He was the one who'd save mankind, a shining light to the future who was actually planning to try and do something on a wider level to fix the Federation and make it so (sooner rather than later, hopefully) Char wouldn't have to be in charge of things any more. And instead, he vanished. None of the hopes came true, Kamille was missing, dead, or worse, and all Char's sacrifices meant to make a better future (and unlike just people dying, sacrifices that mattered to him) wound up in ashes. That makes a man bitter, and at minimum, losing his intended protege is a nice cherry on top of a poo poo sundae.
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May 10, 2020 13:30
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chiasaur11 posted:Or he could have, you know, read the news. Why would the news report on the fate of Kamille? He might be the protagonist, but he's still just one pilot in a militia fighting a much bigger war. He's a statistic on any wider social level, and there's no reason the news would report anything about him. Still though, sure, if you want. It still requires the invocation of headcanon for off-screen events that don't explain or change anything about Char's Counterattack. chiasaur11 posted:Kamille was the Newtype Char always hoped for. Where Amuro was practical minded and stuck to the personal level, Kamille was, as Amuro said, better. He was the one who'd save mankind, a shining light to the future who was actually planning to try and do something on a wider level to fix the Federation and make it so (sooner rather than later, hopefully) Char wouldn't have to be in charge of things any more. He was? Kamille didn't actually seem all that invested in continuning to fight to ensure the Federation would change on the kind of level that Char wanted, and seemed mostly invested in getting rid of the Titans. Char is the one who is pushing for Ereist ideals throughout, and while Kamille supports them, I don't recall any indication that he was pushing himself in any way as someone who would never give up on them and would fight endlessly for those ideals, or who was planning some kind of Ereist or even Contolist future. Kamille seems pretty sick of fighting even before the end of the show, which is presumably why he never actually goes back to fighting again after he recovers during ZZ. If anything, Amuro indicates more support of those ideals than Kamille, since he's the one congratulating Char after his Dakar speech (where Char pushed that pretty hard) and talks to him about how excited his speech has made Karaba and AEUG in general. Which carries over in to Char's Counterattack, since Amuro doesn't even disagree with Char's ideals regarding Contolsim and instead just his methods, and impatience. tsob fucked around with this message at 14:03 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 13:44
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i'm not sure if kamille served as any of char's post-zeta motivations, but that's very different from char caring so little that he never bothered to find out what happened to kamille. however, he had enough going on at the time that he might have only looked into it after kamille's recovery and permanent retirement. kamille had a reasonably happy ending, but he never became the newtype messiah char hoped for and that's likely where char's interest ended.
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May 10, 2020 13:54
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The follow up to Kamille and Char’s relationship feels like a casualty of Char’s Counterattack getting green lit and the story of ZZ changing.
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May 10, 2020 16:41
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Kamille being there is often what changes Char's fate in Super Robot Wars.
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May 10, 2020 16:43
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MonsieurChoc posted:Kamille being there is often what changes Char's fate in Super Robot Wars. This ties into the question I ask myself sometimes when this comes up; if Kamille wasn’t brain fried and if Haman and Axis didn’t just... leave like in the Zeta movies, would Char have come back to the Argama?
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May 10, 2020 16:59
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MechaX posted:This ties into the question I ask myself sometimes when this comes up; if Kamille wasn’t brain fried and if Haman and Axis didn’t just... leave like in the Zeta movies, would Char have come back to the Argama? Let's find out in Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ: A New Translation.  Seriously though, I don't know if he still would've come back to the Argama. I feel like Char would've been happy to be declared KIA since it means not having to deal with the hassle of being Casval Deikun, leader of the AEUG, for the foreseeable future. Besides, Kamille's healthy and whole, so there's someone to pick up the slack who Char approves of.
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May 10, 2020 17:32
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MechaX posted:This ties into the question I ask myself sometimes when this comes up; if Kamille wasn’t brain fried and if Haman and Axis didn’t just... leave like in the Zeta movies, would Char have come back to the Argama? Quattro may of returned, Char would not have.
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May 10, 2020 17:53
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MechaX posted:This ties into the question I ask myself sometimes when this comes up; if Kamille wasn’t brain fried and if Haman and Axis didn’t just... leave like in the Zeta movies, would Char have come back to the Argama?
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May 10, 2020 23:06
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https://twitter.com/tvtuners/status/1259638900227805188
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May 11, 2020 01:18
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MechaX posted:This ties into the question I ask myself sometimes when this comes up; if Kamille wasn’t brain fried and if Haman and Axis didn’t just... leave like in the Zeta movies, would Char have come back to the Argama? I haven't watched the Zeta redux trilogy on the back of I heard it wasn't that good, but did they literally nix the setup for the sequel series in their adjustments?
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May 11, 2020 16:16
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The Notorious ZSB posted:I haven't watched the Zeta redux trilogy on the back of I heard it wasn't that good, but did they literally nix the setup for the sequel series in their adjustments? The ending makes ZZ impossible.
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May 11, 2020 16:48
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The Notorious ZSB posted:I haven't watched the Zeta redux trilogy on the back of I heard it wasn't that good, but did they literally nix the setup for the sequel series in their adjustments? Yes.
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May 11, 2020 16:51
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Whoa. Poor Anime Ja'nai being disrespected like that. (I think ZZ is weak, but that OP is legendary).
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May 11, 2020 17:22
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Given the success of Unicorn, I have no idea why they'd want to invalidate ZZ.
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May 11, 2020 17:24
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They should make a sequel to ZZ where the cast meets the cast of Unicorn and laughs at them
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May 11, 2020 17:27
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Warmachine posted:Given the success of Unicorn, I have no idea why they'd want to invalidate ZZ. Unicorn hadn't even started in novel format at the time. I assume the goal was just to give Zeta a happier ending in itself, since there weren't plans for ZZ movies and it's not like a new version of Zeta could canonically displace the TV show which other works had built on for 20 years.
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May 11, 2020 17:31
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| # ? May 10, 2024 12:23 |
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1st Stage Midboss posted:Unicorn hadn't even started in novel format at the time. I assume the goal was just to give Zeta a happier ending in itself, since there weren't plans for ZZ movies and it's not like a new version of Zeta could canonically displace the TV show which other works had built on for 20 years. My understanding of the thinking behind the Zeta movies was that Sunrise approached Tomino because Zeta's 20th anniversary was coming up and Zeta had never gotten any compilation movies despite being one of the most popular entries so they wanted to produce some as a marketing gimmick to revitalize Zeta model sales. Tomino didn't seem to have any interest in it personally, but since a job's a job he took it and decided to use the movies as an opportunity to give the story a happier ending while he was at it because he'd had a rather large shift in perspective over the years and was no longer as nihillistic or pessimistic as he had been when originally directing Zeta. There's no actual source for most of that mind, and to my knowledge there isn't any source where he discusses his mindset going in to the movies at all, at least that has been translated, but Tomino is a "for hire" director, and has never worked direclty for Sunrise and G-Reco is apparently the first time he approached them with a project rather than just making something on request and he does say in an interview with Vice that can be found on YouTube from around the time of the movies production that no-one has spoken to him about a ZZ movie trilogy so he has no plans to make one, which together imply that he only made the Zeta trilogy because he was asked and not because he thought it necessary or preferable. It's also worth noting that Tomino doesn't seem to give a single gently caress about canon. As such it seems likely that when he made the movies he wasn't concerned about which would be the canonical version of Zeta going forward, and left that for others to figure out if they did care.
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May 11, 2020 17:49
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