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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Right but if its the far north in the "Chaos Wastes" how do cities exist there? Wouldnt it be too cold? And with that being the case, how are there so many of them coming from the Frozen North Wasteland just to try to burn the world down? Thats what always gets me.... like... how do they have the money for all that armor? Does their hatred/evilness keep them warm and fed?
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May 27, 2020 21:39
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KingKapalone posted:We want to work together. He'll probably want to try something more flavorful than vanilla humans though (obviously he should just play whatever looks fun, but I could also pass along some fun recommendations). If you want flavorful, then go for the double Orc goodness of Grimgor and Wurrzag. Right in the middle of everything, pretty close to each other, and the new Greenskin rework has made the race pretty fun.
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May 27, 2020 21:40
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Twigand Berries posted:
Also, Gejnor it looks like stone trolls aren't receiving any recruitment rank bonuses.
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May 27, 2020 21:40
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I'd say the empire is really flavourfull tbh. They don't have tons of monsters but they have tons of FIREPOWER It's really satisfying to rocket barrage hordes of rats or orcs. Grenadiers are really great too. Against the AI they are super powerful and regularly rack up hundreds of kills
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May 27, 2020 21:42
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Some of the old lore suggested that chaos warriors are literally mutated into the armour. They can't take it off, don't need to eat, etc. Which, for Khorne, sure, but what's the point of worshipping Slaanesh if you can't eat or gently caress or snort a line
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May 27, 2020 21:43
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Which, for Khorne, sure, but what's the point of worshipping Slaanesh if you can't eat or gently caress or snort a line Suit generates cocaine as part of its life support.
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May 27, 2020 21:44
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Some of the old lore suggested that chaos warriors are literally mutated into the armour. They can't take it off, don't need to eat, etc. You say that as if a proper Slaaneshi armor wouldn't have a fully functional dick.
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May 27, 2020 21:45
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Night10194 posted:Suit generates cocaine as part of its life support. DeadFatDuckFat posted:Wanna party at the Tower of Khrakk
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May 27, 2020 21:47
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Twigand Berries posted:
I approve of this army
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May 27, 2020 21:48
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:A voter of the Big Blue Birds Betraying You Forever party: "I never thought the birds would betray me"
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May 27, 2020 21:53
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Does anyone have recommendations for vampire counts, in particular how to use guns? I’m used to bows and their arcs, so positioning is throwing me off here.
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May 27, 2020 21:53
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tildes posted:Does anyone have recommendations for vampire counts, in particular how to use guns? I’m used to bows and their arcs, so positioning is throwing me off here. I found this very helpful: 
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May 27, 2020 21:56
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tildes posted:Does anyone have recommendations for vampire counts, in particular how to use guns? I’m used to bows and their arcs, so positioning is throwing me off here. the good news is you don't need to worry about guns!  I assume you meant coast, in which case you want to use a checkerboard formation where your infantry have gaps for your gunners to shoot through.
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May 27, 2020 21:59
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yikes! posted:the good news is you don't need to worry about guns! someone forgot the von carstein handgunner levy smh
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May 27, 2020 21:59
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Also, you can just shoot straight through crabs so learn to love crabs. An all-crab frontline isn't unreasonable, even.
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May 27, 2020 22:09
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Twigand Berries posted:Also, Gejnor it looks like stone trolls aren't receiving any recruitment rank bonuses. Odd, its working for me? I am fiddling with the mod a great deal still so there may be weird gaps and stuff that happens between updates. Speaking of Updates: I've removed the need for secondary buildings when it comes to recruiting units, instead the buildings that unlocked units now give factionwide buffs at their max tier besides their normal bonuses. Perhaps even greater of a change, and one i haven't added in just yet (literally about to flick the switch on this one, but i want to get as many things working properly as possible before i do) is the fact that i am going to make the new greenskin trolls Throgg only. The Armoured Chaos Trolls will still be available to Wulfrik. But fret not, for Wulfrik will gain his own pair of unique units. Added into the Smith building line, Wulfrik can recruit Gorebeast Chariots at tier4 and Hellcannons at tier 5. The Hellcannon units will come with a unit cap system much like that for Dread Saurians and Lizardmen, to limit their presence but still give you that sweet sweet arty game Norsca lacks, if you so chose to gain it.  
Gejnor fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 22:09
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Jesus christ the problem with Chaos is not that it's not humanized or relateable enough. Chaos is the Id of the universe lashing out at everyone. Is Settra human or relateable? No! He's a megalomaniac, but a FUN megalomaniac. That's what Chaos needs. Archaon got plenty of backstory and it was all poo poo, Valkia and Sigvald are not empathetic or likeable people they're just fun because they're bombastic and have a good aesthetic. More of that please.  Nurgle and his daemons are the perfect example of this. They are not cool or good, they're just goofy gregarious nihilism and that's entertaining. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 22:14
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Some of the old lore suggested that chaos warriors are literally mutated into the armour. They can't take it off, don't need to eat, etc. Not needing to do a thing is not the same as being unable to do that thing. I mean I guess if your helmet is bonded to your head and you can't access your mouth, you probably can't eat, but I don't think that's how many Slaanesh followers are.
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May 27, 2020 22:20
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The Chaos gods are also all massive dicks and love ironic gifts.
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May 27, 2020 22:24
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Captain Oblivious posted:Jesus christ the problem with Chaos is not that it's not humanized or relateable enough. Chaos is the Id of the universe lashing out at everyone. I mean yeah, but I also think actually expanding a bit on the Chaos peoples as well to make them a bit more fleshed out in what motivates them as a whole and what unifies and divides them would do some good. Apart from when you specifically look at Norsca, which kind of makes sense as a fantasy viking culture that raids the south and worships strange gods (I think the expansion of them in WFRP which essentially makes them weird fantasy gnostics is interesting, but I don't think that's really made its way into anything else), Chaos just kind of seem to be a bunch of evildudes in armor, especially when you look at Undivided. I guess that's also a problem in that while the champions and followers of the individual Gods make sense and often have fun stories to them, I don't really get Undivided, why it exists and who is part of it. Like a unifying Chaos leader would make more sense if he was like a ridiculous fantasy Genghis Khan than Archaon, who I think is supposed to be some fallen Sigmarite priest or something. What does he bring to the table in terms of unifying the followers of the Chaos Gods under one banner?
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May 27, 2020 22:29
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tildes posted:Does anyone have recommendations for vampire counts, in particular how to use guns? I’m used to bows and their arcs, so positioning is throwing me off here. The one thing I look out for is low rises on the map - I tend to zoom in to ground level when setting up my gunline. I usually do not run more than 8 gunnery mobs just because it can be hard to find enough level ground to set up on with largest unit sizes.
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May 27, 2020 22:30
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Randarkman posted:I mean yeah, but I also think actually expanding a bit on the Chaos peoples as well to make them a bit more fleshed out in what motivates them as a whole and what unifies and divides them would do some good. Apart from when you specifically look at Norsca, which kind of makes sense as a fantasy viking culture that raids the south and worships strange gods (I think the expansion of them in WFRP which essentially makes them weird fantasy gnostics is interesting, but I don't think that's really made its way into anything else), Chaos just kind of seem to be a bunch of evildudes in armor, especially when you look at Undivided. Archaeon beat up the other champions and proved his worth to the gods and received all of their blessings, didn't he? It wasn't just "okay the chosen one is here we're all following him." I haven't really looked at Archaeon lore much but I could have sworn there was more to it than "He's here now, watch him conquer everything NO IGNORE THAT GRIMGOR THING IT DOESN'T COUNT ARCHAEON WINS"
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May 27, 2020 22:35
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Randarkman posted:I mean yeah, but I also think actually expanding a bit on the Chaos peoples as well to make them a bit more fleshed out in what motivates them as a whole and what unifies and divides them would do some good. Apart from when you specifically look at Norsca, which kind of makes sense as a fantasy viking culture that raids the south and worships strange gods (I think the expansion of them in WFRP which essentially makes them weird fantasy gnostics is interesting, but I don't think that's really made its way into anything else), Chaos just kind of seem to be a bunch of evildudes in armor, especially when you look at Undivided. You know what motivates Valkia? NOTICE ME MURDER GOD SENPAI. And yet everyone loves her, because she implicitly yells it with style. 
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May 27, 2020 22:36
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Captain Oblivious posted:You know what motivates Valkia? NOTICE ME MURDER GOD SENPAI. And yet everyone loves her, because she implicitly yells it with style. It helps that she managed to get it to work with Khorne of all gods.
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May 27, 2020 22:39
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Hunt11 posted:It helps that she managed to get it to work with Khorne of all gods. Yeah I'm not arguing Valkia doesn't rule I'm just saying she's absolutely ridiculous. And so are all the other good characters.
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May 27, 2020 22:42
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Archaeons gimmick is being the dumbest motherfucker on gods green earth
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May 27, 2020 22:43
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The Chad Jihad posted:Archaeons gimmick is being the dumbest motherfucker on gods green earth That is a required trait for every Chaos Undivided leader except Horus.
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May 27, 2020 22:45
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Archaon was a devout worshipper of Sigmar who got brainproblems and became the destroyer of worlds
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May 27, 2020 22:47
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Archaon has a glimmer of being interesting in that he really should be the champion of Malal, ie. the Chaos god of Order. He loathes the Empire and Sigmar but he also hates Chaos, and he wants to Chaos to win as it's the biggest gently caress you he can give to the Chaos gods, since they'd lose all their playthings and the fun games they can play with them. None of this ever really gets across when Archaon does anything so he's just a boring angryman.
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May 27, 2020 22:47
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:Archaeon beat up the other champions and proved his worth to the gods and received all of their blessings, didn't he? It wasn't just "okay the chosen one is here we're all following him." I mean for sure there's lore, and I'm only partially aware of the details of Archaon's lore, but it seems pretty generally agreed upon that Archaon isn't that interesting or compelling. With his background and apperance maybe he'd make more sense as a kind of right-hand man of the actual boss hog of Chaos. It's that Darth Vader kind of background that you find everywhere in fiction. Captain Oblivious posted:You know what motivates Valkia? NOTICE ME MURDER GOD SENPAI. And yet everyone loves her, because she implicitly yells it with style. This is better because it's simple, catchy, entertaining and even understandable within its context. I've never read anything about Valkia but I understand what motivates her and her followers. It doesn't always have to be so simple (and being simple isn't bad), but there has to be something. Archaon just seems to lack personality, and it extends to the entirety of his Chaos Undivided. The guy who unifies the Chaos Hordes and the followers of the different Chaos Gods should be someone with charisma and personal drive, not just an angry fightman in armor. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 22:51 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 22:48
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Still want Harry the Hammer in the game somewhere, dammit.
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May 27, 2020 22:56
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CA please give us SLAMBO!
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May 27, 2020 22:57
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i think one major problem with archy (aside from the other n billion times ive said he's bad), is that his characterization is dependent on his power level. he's just supposed to be the best, the strongest, the most cunning, the most brutal, so whenever he's in a scene he just sucks the air out of it because nobody is allowed to do things better than him. and he's not actually that competent or smart (because he's not written by terribly competent or smart people, heheh) so his grand battle tactics are things like "have endless hordes of best soldiers and most powerful creatures, get hung up versus a crumbling border fort with some dudes with their grandpa's hunting rilfes, scream endlessly about it and beat up a giant or something to let off steam". so that means he has to suck a lot of air out to be impressive like sigvald has more to him than "is strong"; you turn sigvald into a depowered everyday dude and he's still going to be sigvald, a weird creepy narcissist who keeps smiling at his own reflection in a nearby polished bit of silverware. throgg is still a smart boi troll whose pissed about the other trolls being uninteresting in hearing his latest cave allegory. some lords are a little dependent on their power level like grimgor, but he's at least grumpy and taciturn as a general concept and that can work even on a nerdling. archy tho, if you take away all his toys and plot powers and requisite tragic backstory, is just some blowhard dipshit, probably complaining about how the latest dude he got beat up by in a bar cheated or something Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 02:10 on May 28, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 23:05
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Tiler Kiwi posted:i think one major problem with archy (aside from the other n billion times ive said he's bad), is that his characterization is dependent on his power level. he's just supposed to be the best, the strongest, the most cunning, the most brutal, so whenever he's in a scene he just sucks the air out of it because nobody is allowed to do things better than him. and he's not actually that competent or smart (because he's not written by terribly competent or smart people, heheh) so his grand battle tactics are things like "have endless hordes of best soldiers and most powerful creatures, get hung up versus a crumbling border fort with some dudes with their grandpa's hunting rilfes, scream endlessly about it and beat up a giant or something to let off steam". Pretty much. WHFB Chaos isn't boring, Archaon is boring. There are tons of fun and flavorful Chaos characters - you don't need a huge compelling backstory or ~interesting motivations~ to be cool in Warhammer, you need bombast and fun character traits. Grimgor is almost literally Greenskin Archaon - the biggest baddest dude who punches all the other dudes and fights all the time to prove he's the biggest baddest dude - but Grimgor is beloved because Grimgor has a lot of personality. As for why the Chaos faction in TWW is boring, that's because it's a super half baked unfinished roster missing 70% of what it should have, but is condemned to only be completed in game 3 despite being a huge part of game 1 and mortal empires. The Empire would be pretty boring if its entire roster was "state troop infantry, pistoliers, and maybe a cannon".
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May 27, 2020 23:16
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Archaon is a plot device, not a character. He exists to signify "Hoo boy chaos is getting serious now" and provide events where other characters can be fleshed out. His loving hat has more personality and motivation than he does.
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May 27, 2020 23:19
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Kanos posted:Pretty much. WHFB Chaos isn't boring, Archaon is boring. There are tons of fun and flavorful Chaos characters - you don't need a huge compelling backstory or ~interesting motivations~ to be cool in Warhammer, you need bombast and fun character traits. Grimgor is almost literally Greenskin Archaon - the biggest baddest dude who punches all the other dudes and fights all the time to prove he's the biggest baddest dude - but Grimgor is beloved because Grimgor has a lot of personality. I don't really think Grimgor would have worked as well if he weren't an Orc. I think the key to Grimgor working and being fun is that the Warhammer Orcs themselves are so well-characterized and Grimgor kind of just seems like the Orciest Orc there is. e: Wait. Archaon became evil because he read it in a book? Randarkman fucked around with this message at 23:33 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 23:23
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:What Fellatio del Toro said/shared, and to add to the above to make it work better for VCoast/ZP (Zombie Pirates) use deckhand mobs to be your tarpits. I especially like having a Deeps and a Vampire caster in each army because lords/heroes are decent tarpits and they can summon more tarpits with those two lores, and Vampires has Invocation of Nehek to help keep your tarpits around longer. yikes! posted:the good news is you don't need to worry about guns! Fellatio del Toro posted:I found this very helpful: Edgar Allen Ho posted:Also, you can just shoot straight through crabs so learn to love crabs. Thank you all this is really helpful! I’ll try using those formations with deckhand mobs/lords as I work my way towards the crab front line (and then I guess no “frontline” once you get colossi?)
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May 27, 2020 23:33
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Holy poo poo this cult of sotek vortex start. open-palm slam that Rite of Sotek button and ambush until the rats are seeing their tails as angry snakes this start will learn you the importance of ambushing the AI if you're like me and you never mess with it because A) they might go another direction or B) you are playing a race where it is automatic
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May 27, 2020 23:33
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Eimi posted:Archaon has a glimmer of being interesting in that he really should be the champion of Malal, ie. the Chaos god of Order. He loathes the Empire and Sigmar but he also hates Chaos, and he wants to Chaos to win as it's the biggest gently caress you he can give to the Chaos gods, since they'd lose all their playthings and the fun games they can play with them. None of this ever really gets across when Archaon does anything so he's just a boring angryman. If we’re pulling out the obscure lesser chaos gods then I invoke Necoho the god of atheism and disbelief in religion and deities
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May 27, 2020 23:39
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One of my favorite parts of Chaos WHFB lore is that Tzeentch is an officially recognized god in Cathay and its somehow totally fine (for now)
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May 27, 2020 23:41
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