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I have had the good fortune of introducing someone to 40k. I'm getting back into it as well since 9th Edition is coming up. We'll be playing on Tabletop Simulator since that has a ton of resources for models and maps. Does anyone have any good resources for introducing people to the game (outside of the starter sets)? She's never played in her life so I obviously don't wanna shove a tricked-out Coldstar Commander at her face, but how big should a starting game even be?
The Deleter fucked around with this message at 14:53 on May 29, 2020 |
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May 29, 2020 14:22
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If you're gonna play 8th then like 1,000pts is probably a good size. 500 is stupid and you barely play the game, 1,000 is still manageable and will be a lot more engaging. Avoid poo poo like superheavies, probably write up a pair of highlander lists that do more to show off how the game works than are deliberately set to be good. If you're not expecting to play until 9th, there's meant to be a whole bunch of rules for smaller game modes and stuff that will be helpful for new gamers (hopefully, anyway).
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May 29, 2020 14:35
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The Deleter posted:I have had the good fortune of introducing someone to 40k. I'm getting back into it as well since 9th Edition is coming up. We'll be playing on Tabletop Simulator since that has a ton of resources for models and maps. Does anyone have any good resources for introducing people to the game (outside of the starter sets)? She's never played in her life so I obviously don't wanna shove a tricked-out Coldstar Commander at her face, but how big should a starting game even be? In particular, they've been hyping "Crusade", a way to play 9th where you start small (as a Combat Patrol at 500 points) and gradually increase the size of your army as well as "level up" units as they gain experience. As the 9th edition codexes get released, they will include faction specific Crusade rules as well. Even as someone who already has three and a half armies, this sounds like a pretty drat cool way to play the game. For new players it sounds ideal, since you can make a relatively small investment in an army, and add to it over time while still having a decent experience....assuming, of course, that the Crusade rules are as cool as advertised. It's always hard to gauge how new rules are going to work before actually seeing them in play. So I'd recommend waiting on buying anything until 9th edition pops in a month or two or three or whenever it hits the shelves.
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May 29, 2020 15:19
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May 29, 2020 15:44
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Cooked Auto posted:They must've broken the website in general recently because the vast majority of the time when I try to load it in either chrome or FF it just comes up as empty and all I see is the top and bottom bars. Glad that wasn't just me. As the Ptarmigan said, had to purge cookies to get anything at all to display. Re: Resin chat. I'm pretty certain that the incredible, laughable, bullshit they came out with about the high-quality of Finecast models was a huge contributor to hobby burnout for me several years back. I know some people said they thought the quality improved after a few months but the last thing I bought (the 25th anniversary marine captain) was absolutely no better than the first. There's nothing inherently wrong with resin though, ForgeWorld resin is fine because they vacuum cast it. IIRC for Finecast GW were trying to shove some weird resin formula through their existing spun-rubber mould machinery designed for casting metal which is clearly going to result in feeble foamy garbage. Anyway I've only been back on this bullshit about a month and despite thinking I would just build through my shameful stack of existing sprues, I've somehow already spent close to £300 on miscellaneous shite.
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May 29, 2020 15:53
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I’m not an expert by any means on resin casting or injection molding. We spent a while on it in a manufacturing class in college. And I’ve done a bit of resin casting on my own for the odd bit. My understanding is for metallic or resin casting, the process boils down to manually pouring liquid metal or resin into a mold; then some additional process to remove air bubbles. For plastic models, you use a completely different technology: injection molding. It uses a a high pressure feeder to fill a 2 piece metallic mold with liquid plastic. It’s way more expensive. One of your primary wear parts is your precision machined mold and the machines themselves can get mega expensive. In resin casting your big wear part is the relatively cheap silicon mold. But the upside is the manufacturing process is infinity more repeatable. You dial in your machine and let her rip until it’s time to change out the mold. It doesn’t rely on Joe from Forgeworld spraying the release agent on just right. GW/FW is remarkably bad at resin casting and it consistently shows in the quality their casts.
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May 29, 2020 16:18
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I like resin in that it bends and conforms really well if you dip it in super hot (just under boiling) water for a minute or two and give it a press. Stuff then hardens right back up. It let me fix up some repressor kits that were “resold” on eBay and weren’t recasts...nosireebob. I’ve tried bending plastic models using the hot water method and I’ve not had a lick of success. Here’s a question for GW historians...those old hero quest and battlemaster’s MB games had plastic minis that were pretty good, and that was back in the 90s. Anyone know how that related to GW production at the time? Was the whole thing mass produced by Milton Bradley?
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May 29, 2020 16:38
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If I was going to start a Space Marine army with the new edition, is there any reason to buy smol Marines, or just go with Primaris all around?
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May 29, 2020 16:55
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Regular Marines still have more weapon options that you can kit your Tac Squads with. Intercessors only have Bolt Rifles and then grenade launchers for one or two members if I remember right. Edit: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/29/new-rules-for-chaos-daemons/ *dramatic gasp* Daemons! Cooked Auto fucked around with this message at 17:11 on May 29, 2020 |
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May 29, 2020 17:00
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Funzo posted:If I was going to start a Space Marine army with the new edition, is there any reason to buy smol Marines, or just go with Primaris all around? Scouts are still the cheapest troops but we have no idea if that's going to matter in a month. Centurions are really good right now. Otherwise it's mostly vehicles from the small marine line that see a lot of play, and a good chunk of them are Forge World models at that, which may also change significantly in the next month and a half. If you're just starting out there are enough Primaris things that are good that you can start with those and figure out if small marines are worth your time later.
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May 29, 2020 17:21
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Funzo posted:If I was going to start a Space Marine army with the new edition, is there any reason to buy smol Marines, or just go with Primaris all around? Most of us who still use smols are doing so out of a stubborn desire to keep using the assembled and painted models that we've had for as long as twenty years. From a play standpoint, though, smol Marines have the following advantages: Mixed Weapon Loads. You can get a number of melee weapons and/or combi-weapons on smol Characters and Sergeants. You can get a bunch of different other weapon choices as heavy weapons or special weapons at need. The problem, though, is that you're paying for that privilege by getting models that are half as durable as their Primaris counterparts for more than half the points. A Tactical Marine costs 12 points while an Intercessor is 17, but the latter has two wounds and a better basic weapon, as well as Intercessor only strategems. Still, it's possible to put together smol Marine exclusive builds that are very effective, such as... Drop Pods. A Grav-Cannon Devastator Squad in a Drop Pod can land Turn One and delete nearly anything short of a Knight when combined with the Grav-Amplification strategy (bonus points if you do this as Iron Hands and tag in Merciless Logic). Jump Pack Characters. The classic Smash Captain is a smol Captain with a Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, and Jump Pack. Bike Characters. You can still get a Captain (or Khan if you're playing White Scars) on a Bike. Though with Primaris Outriders on the horizon, it's possible that a Primaris Captain on Bike will supplant this soon. Support Characters. If your character, like an Apothecary or Ancient or Lieutenant or Chaplain, is only going to be hanging around providing an aura buff, then getting him as a smol is slightly cheaper points wise than the Primaris version. Terminators. While arguably too expensive for what you get, Deep Striking Termies can still get work done, especially when used to steal a lightly held objective on a flank somewhere. They can't withstand a full army's firepower, though, so you have to use them as raiders, not mainline combatants. Centurions. These guys are very good, and even better depending on which Chapter you pick, though calling them "smol" is kind of amusing. tl;dr: There are edge cases, but generally Primaris is the way to go. And those edge case keep going away as the Primaris line keeps growing. A week ago, I'd have listed Bikes up there, but with Primaris Outriders having been announced, that's probably no longer true. For the moment, then, I'd recommend mostly Primaris with just a smattering of smols for specific tasks that you want done, like a Smash Captain, or Grav Bomb Devastators in a Drop Pod. And of course Ninth Edition is on the horizon, and new codexes coming sooner or later, so who the hell knows what's still going to be viable by Christmas? jng2058 fucked around with this message at 18:57 on May 29, 2020 |
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May 29, 2020 17:27
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jng2058 posted:so who the hell knows what's still going to be viable by Christmas? And that's why I always tell new players to choose armies based on fluff or what they like the look of best. The meta is a fickle thing.
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May 29, 2020 18:12
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Legendary Ptarmigan posted:I was able to fix this by clearing the browser cookies for their site and reloading it. I've actually had the same problem and i tried this and it didn't fix it
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May 29, 2020 18:15
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So, as said, the initial outlay for resin or metal is much lower. It's on the order of $500-1000 for a mold, whereas the kind of mold needed for plastic runs in the tens of thousands. The tradeoff is that the material and labor needed for resin or metal is much more expensive than the plastic, where you're talking pennies to the sprue in material. The molds also last longer. Though they do have a shelf-life; after somewhere between 100,000 and a million uses, they need replacing. That's why you see more prominent mold lines and then greater moldslip as time goes on. This is why GW still uses resin for kits they expect not to sell very many copies. Though, the last year or so they've been using aluminum molds for that purpose. Cheaper than the steel molds used for their high-volume stuff, but not as durable. I expect this to become the norm going forward, as even their limited edition models are likely to have enough of a market these days to make the aluminum molds worth it. You'll also see resin used a lot for boutique miniatures. This is partly because they're low-volume by their nature, but also because resin can still hold crisper, finer detail than even the best plastic minis. It's not a huge difference, and it generally isn't going to matter to most of us, but it is there.
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May 29, 2020 18:25
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JackMann posted:You'll also see resin used a lot for boutique miniatures. This is partly because they're low-volume by their nature, but also because resin can still hold crisper, finer detail than even the best plastic minis. It's not a huge difference, and it generally isn't going to matter to most of us, but it is there. It can also do undercuts, which a rigid plastic mold can't do at all.
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May 29, 2020 18:37
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jng2058 posted:
It'd be hilarious if more Normal Marines went into Centurion training because of the influx of Primaris.
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May 29, 2020 18:40
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How strict do people tend to be about bolt rifle variants? Have you ever encountered anyone insisting that you can’t use auto bolt rifles because the models have regular ones? It seems like such a minor thing, especially since it’s a squad wide option, rather than something you have to track on a model by model basis. Related, is there any consensus on the best bolt rifle to use?
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May 29, 2020 19:23
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a witch posted:How strict do people tend to be about bolt rifle variants? Have you ever encountered anyone insisting that you can’t use auto bolt rifles because the models have regular ones? It seems like such a minor thing, especially since it’s a squad wide option, rather than something you have to track on a model by model basis. I dont want to meet the player who wouldn't let an opponent change a single option about their minis just for a fun pickup game.
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May 29, 2020 19:31
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What's a good loadout for a Land Speeder? I've got one from my Warhammer Conquest subscription and I'm not sure how to equip it. I think it's the only thing I'm not sure on how to equip.
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May 29, 2020 19:41
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Floppychop posted:And that's why I always tell new players to choose armies based on fluff or what they like the look of best. The meta is a fickle thing. While this is broadly true vis a vis picking what faction to play....Grey Knights were at the bottom of the meta for ages and the new PA book shot them to the top of the pops...in this case regarding smol vs Primaris, I really don't think so. Primaris will keep getting new unit types, smols won't. Therefore, as Primaris versions comes along that gives you more benefit for your points/dollars compared to the left behind smols, there's less and less reason to buy smol. Sooner or later there will be a Primaris version of everything smols can do, and then what are you going to do with your smols? It may take years, but it's going to get to that point eventually. So if you're starting from scratch, why invest heavily in smols who are on the way out? This is the age of the Primaris now, for better or worse.
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May 29, 2020 19:41
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new players, give guard a chance! (but don't get attached to any of the special characters)
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May 29, 2020 19:53
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I'm throwing together an old school Command Squad for fun. Are Techmarines no longer members of Command Squads? Also, are jump-pack CS's practical?
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May 29, 2020 20:02
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a witch posted:How strict do people tend to be about bolt rifle variants? Have you ever encountered anyone insisting that you can’t use auto bolt rifles because the models have regular ones? It seems like such a minor thing, especially since it’s a squad wide option, rather than something you have to track on a model by model basis. I use stalkers and regular bolt rifles interchangeably because they're basically impossible to spot at gaming distance anyway, and I doubt a lot of people would even be able to accurately tell you which was which. The autos I think are better being modelled because they look significantly different to an extent you can spot from across the table, but I think as long as it wasn't confusing for an opponent - for example if they were your only kind of bolt rifle - it wouldn't really matter.
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May 29, 2020 20:06
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a witch posted:How strict do people tend to be about bolt rifle variants? Have you ever encountered anyone insisting that you can’t use auto bolt rifles because the models have regular ones? It seems like such a minor thing, especially since it’s a squad wide option, rather than something you have to track on a model by model basis. As someone who doesn't play marines I'm probably just as ignorant about the specifics about which bolter is which, as you are about what specific gun my termagant is carrying. All that really matters is I can tell your squads apart so different loadouts don't get confused.
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May 29, 2020 20:11
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Babe Magnet posted:new players, give guard a chance! (but don't get attached to any of the special characters) Cadian is boring and Catachan is worse. Plastic DKoK, Vostroyan or Valhallan please.
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May 29, 2020 20:14
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I started out with Steel Legion when they came out because I thought they looked good and I liked the idea of mechanized infantry. I was a foolish young man.
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May 29, 2020 20:22
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Azerban posted:Cadian is boring and Catachan is worse. Plastic DKoK, Vostroyan or Valhallan please. krieg also have some fun-rear end rules the main reason I want flak-less guard models is the huge potential for running an army that isn't just Cadia But Blue, the conversion potential is huge. bring back Al'rahem and the tallarn gw you cowards
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May 29, 2020 20:42
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Professor Shark posted:I'm throwing together an old school Command Squad for fun. Are Techmarines no longer members of Command Squads? Command Squads don't exist anymore. The support characters, your Apothecary, Ancient, and yes, the Techmarine are all individual units unto themselves. You can move them together if you like, but they're no longer part of one squad. Which is better, actually, since you can send the Techmarine one way to repair a tank, while the Doc goes the other to heal a dude and not worry about unit coherancy. The grunts in the old CS are now Company Veterans, who do get quite a number of weapon options and can even soak wounds for nearby characters as bodyguards. What you can't do is give them, or the support characters, jump packs. The closest you could do is a Captain with a Jump Pack flying around with Vanguard Veterans. Yvonmukluk posted:What's a good loadout for a Land Speeder? I've got one from my Warhammer Conquest subscription and I'm not sure how to equip it. I think it's the only thing I'm not sure on how to equip. Depends. If you want a cheap objective grabber, then just the Heavy Bolter. If you want reasonable firepower at range, HB and Typhoon Launcher. If you want suicide close, then Multi-Melta and either Assault Cannon or Heavy Flamer. That last one will die super quick, but might draw fire from something important before it dies. Personally, I don't use them much, but when I do, I go with HB/Typhoon. But then, I favor shooty lists with as much anti-tank as possible. Your tastes may differ. a witch posted:How strict do people tend to be about bolt rifle variants? Have you ever encountered anyone insisting that you can’t use auto bolt rifles because the models have regular ones? It seems like such a minor thing, especially since it’s a squad wide option, rather than something you have to track on a model by model basis. I tend to be anal about my WYSIWYG. My Stalkers all have scopes, my Autos all have the box ammo clip, and my regular Bolt Rifles have neither. I don't demand that from my opponents, though. As long as I can tell at a glance who has what, I don't care how we get there. As for best, that depends on opponent. Autos are great at clearing large numbers of lightly armored targets, so Orks, Guard infantry, 'gaunts and Genestealers, that sort of thing. Stalkers are great against armored multi-wound heavy infantry, like other Primaris or Terminators. Regular Bolt Rifles split the difference, and have the best strategem. If you know what you're facing, pick the gun for that. If you don't, regular Bolt Rifles are the most versatile and usually the safest choice.
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May 29, 2020 21:10
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Honestly with gun options that look basically the same even WYSIWYG is a bit poo poo. Like how are you going to tell it's a particular type of gun from the other side of a board? As long as your squads have some sort of marking on them or look different in some way, it basically comes down to have you told me what has what gun at the start of the game so I don't be surprised when I think someone has 30" range but they have 36" or whatever.
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May 29, 2020 21:25
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Can't you just ask "what's the range on that squad?" When you forget what has what weapon?
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May 29, 2020 21:30
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Spanish Manlove posted:Can't you just ask "what's the range on that squad?" When you forget what has what weapon? Needing to do that constantly slows the game down.
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May 29, 2020 21:34
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Spanish Manlove posted:Can't you just ask "what's the range on that squad?" When you forget what has what weapon? Sure, but that's like saying "What's this hand called when you have three picture cards and two of the same number?" in poker. Sure you can ask and it's better to ask than to guess in most situations but if you're unsure enough to ask it doesn't matter. The main problem is, either because of a miscommunication or because you were told or whatever, that you are sure they are one range when they are another so you don't ask. Realistically it's only a problem if you have a big mix of squads, if you have 5 squads of intercessors with X and one squad with Y I only need to remember which squad is Y squad. If you have two of eachj type of gun and they are all spread out I probably need a visual cue so I'm not constantly asking. Even then for a pick up game I don't really care.
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May 29, 2020 21:35
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One of the advantages of primaris, I suppose, is that you don't have to worry about the annoyance of proxying mixed weapon types in a squad.
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May 29, 2020 21:39
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One thing in the metal-resin-plastic debates that is never mentioned is undercuts due to how the molds are made. Resin molds can be made of really soft sillicone rubber which means you can do really crazy undercuts and have pieces that branch out or overhang in 3D perpendicular to the direction of the resin pour. Metal molds are of a harder vulcanized rubber, you can have some slight undercuts but nothing dramatic. Plastic molds are steel so you have zero undercuts. You can still make all sorts of fancy shapes but you will have to split up the model. This "no undercut" effect can be seen when you examine the rivets on any curved surface of a model - the rivets that stand parallel to the plane of the sprue wont be domes but instead have extensions going downwards to allow the part to be ejected from the moulds. This isn't really something that will bother the average wargamer but it's noticeable when you look for it.
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May 29, 2020 21:40
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Z the IVth posted:One thing in the metal-resin-plastic debates that is never mentioned is undercuts due to how the molds are made. Booley posted:It can also do undercuts, which a rigid plastic mold can't do at all. :thinking:
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May 29, 2020 21:57
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Z the IVth posted:One thing in the metal-resin-plastic debates that is never mentioned is undercuts due to how the molds are made. I think this is where GW has developed their techniques a lot though, when you look at plastic special characters these days it feels like the sprue has been designed by a robot because no human would ever think to connect the arm and leg in such a way so that when you stick it together it goes the way it needs to. I wonder if they ever talked about it on their podcast thing how they developed their techniques.
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May 29, 2020 22:10
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They do and there's people whose whole job is figuring out how to do the sprue layouts exactly like that
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May 29, 2020 22:34
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some chapters work better with smolmarines. Salamanders want tacticals and veterans because thats where all of the flamers and melta are. Blood Angels got more options in PA but you're still going to be wanting vanguard vets and jump pack death company.
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May 29, 2020 22:43
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I have one unit of 10 Sisters with a Storm Bolter and Heavy Bolter, and one unit with a flamer and heavy flamer. Should my third unit be a melta squad just to complete the trifecta?
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May 29, 2020 22:46
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Z the IVth posted:Plastic molds are steel so you have zero undercuts. I would love to get the straight poo poo from someone in Manufacturing on why they essentially never use slides.
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May 29, 2020 22:49
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