May 2020 Damage Report: ACAB Spring

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > May 2020 Damage Report: ACAB Spring

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Terrifying Effigies posted:

It's a shame they let Trump buy it, the Old Post Office Building is pretty classy

The only reason he hasn't put TRUMP at the top or down the length of the tower is because to my knowledge, the ~~post office~~ National Park Service still owns the tower.

# ? May 30, 2020 02:37

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# ? May 29, 2024 05:41

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

Trump, length and tower in the same sentence are making me uncomfortable

# ? May 30, 2020 02:44

MonkeyWash: Jan 14, 2005; Donkey Rinse

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Normally I'd agree with you, but it's the old post office building and an innocent casualty of Trump's incessant desire to buy things and brand them after himself

dammit, I had forgotten that, yeah salt the earth on his golf courses

# ? May 30, 2020 02:45

facialimpediment: Feb 11, 2005; as the world turns

This one's from Louisville.

https://twitter.com/ChrisBishopL1C4/status/1266546753182056453

The real shitbags really aren't hiding it these last few days.

# ? May 30, 2020 03:07

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

https://twitter.com/JamesAGagliano/status/1266547580663709696?s=20

# ? May 30, 2020 03:09

Terrifying Effigies: Oct 22, 2008; Problems look mighty small from 150 miles up.

https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1266473366225068032

UI Berniebucks go away end of July, right around when small businesses look set to implode.

And the GOP National Convention is the end of August.

Going to be a long hot summer.

# ? May 30, 2020 03:14

piL: Sep 20, 2007; (__|\\\\); Taco Defender

facialimpediment posted:

This one's from Louisville.

https://twitter.com/ChrisBishopL1C4/status/1266546753182056453

The real shitbags really aren't hiding it these last few days.

I. Uh. Look. I dont know if NBC has really held to journalistic integrity, and maybe there's a point to be had about what it means to place press organizations on a pedestal when everyone has a camera in your pocket. I get it. But now isn't the time for your loving anti media performance piece. The Louisville Police do not need enemies.

That said, I'm a little more scared when this happens in NYC.

# ? May 30, 2020 03:26

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

Someone say NYC?

https://twitter.com/jasonlemon/status/1266529475757510656?s=21

# ? May 30, 2020 03:32

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

So cmpd has 4 cars that i saw with lights running gaurding the entrance to a shopping center that has a target in it and I think theyre definately taking the wrong lessons from...everything

# ? May 30, 2020 03:57

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

hobbesmaster posted:

Question for joat mon: how much does the precise cause of death matter to charge here? ie, whether he died because he was choked by the cop or had a panic attack then heart attack due to excessive force by the cop or what.

Bored As gently caress posted:

Can joat mon or a lawyer explain why the exact "cause of death" matters in terms of culpability or punishment? Yeah, okay, he had underlying conditions, and that, combined with the combination of what the officer did, killed him. Why does it matter that there were no strangulation marks or whatever?

Whatever underlying conditions the guy had doesn't matter (or shouldn't) - the actions of the cops still caused the death. It's not like his underlying conditions caused his death suddenly at that exact moment without outside action. Just like positional asphyxiation killed Eric Garner specifically caused by police action (and inaction when he stated he couldn't breathe), George Floyd's death was directly attributable to that cops actions.

Not to mention the other two cops were on top of him (not needed at all after he's secure in handcuffs, unless he's flailing around/kicking, in which case you secure his feet and place him in the goddamn cruiser, not hold him down for 10 loving minutes like psychopaths), and the other one, who didn't take responsibility and tell the main guy "hey man, I got this, back off a little" or do literally the least anyone could do / anything to stop him.

Can an attorney explain why the exact cause of death matters?

Here are what a jury is going to have to find beyond a reasonable doubt to find somebody guilty of murder 3 in MN.

quote:

First, the death of xxxx must be proven.

Second, the defendant yyyy caused the death of xxxx.

Third, the defendant yyyy's intentional act, which caused the death of xxxx, was eminently dangerous to human beings and was performed without regard for human life. Such
an act may not be specifically intended to cause death, and may not be specifically directed at the
particular person whose death occurred, but it is committed in reckless or wanton manner with
the knowledge that someone may be killed and with heedless disregard of that happening.

Fourth, the defendant yyyy's act took place zzzz, in Hennepin County.

The bold bits are the pertinent parts here.
Causation is harder than hearsay to explain.

Civil law (lawsuits for money) has a kind of causation called res ipsa locuitur. It means 'the thing speaks for itself' and basically relieves a plaintiff of actually proving causation - you just have to show that a bad thing happened in a place where the defendant was in control. It's sort of a legal conclusion of 'well, who else's fault could it be?' Res ipsa locuitur does not apply in criminal cases. and for good reasons.

'But for' causation is slightly more rigorous - it's the kind of causation most non lawyers think of. Would Floyd have died but for getting arrested? If the answer is no you have causation. It's easy to string a line of but fors to move causation back a long way.

Proximate cause basically says you can't make that string of causation too long-
The cause must be proximate/close to the effect.

"Gunshot #1 resulted in avulsion of the left atrium from the rest of the heart and a 4 cm long tear in the aorta" would nail all three levels of causation as to the act that killed someone.
"He died in police custody but we don't know how or why" might get you res ipsa and but for cause, but you've making a much bigger ask for a jury to give you proximate cause - certainly more than a gunshot or a cause of death that can be proximately connected to an action that occurred.

So no, exact mechanism of death doesn't matter. What matters is how causally proximate a provable action by a defendant is to a victim's death.

Nystral posted:

Yeah how does this work given that the officer was armed, had his gun drawn at one point per the report and the guy died. There was a case in WI from 2018 where a armed robber holding up a burger joint had someone die of a heart attack getting hit with murder charges.

Felony murder is dumb and bad.
What placed felony murder in play in the WI case was not that somebody had a gun but that somebody was doing a particular kind of felony that is particularly likely to result in dead people, and someone did in fact die.
The interesting felony murder thought experiment in this situation would be to charge the cop who killed Floyd with felony murder of the people who died as a result of the ensuing riots.

# ? May 30, 2020 04:18

Lake of Methane: Oct 29, 2011

Terrifying Effigies posted:

https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1266473366225068032

UI Berniebucks go away end of July, right around when small businesses look set to implode.

And the GOP National Convention is the end of August.

Going to be a long hot summer.

"Senate Republicans have declared the [$3T House] bill to be "dead on arrival." Mitch McConnell (R-Turtle) said on Friday that the next potential relief bill will be the final coronavirus stimulus legislation."

# ? May 30, 2020 04:32

Immanentized: Mar 17, 2009

Whoa CNN has protestors at the White House getting froggy with the secret service

# ? May 30, 2020 04:41

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Define froggy

# ? May 30, 2020 04:42

ded: Oct 27, 2005; Kooler than Jesus

The go.cnn feed doesnt have that. It's some interview with Kobuchar(sp)

# ? May 30, 2020 04:45

lightpole: Jun 4, 2004; I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Nonconsensual but desired, shoes on pants off.

# ? May 30, 2020 04:45

iwentdoodie: Apr 29, 2005; 🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗

ded posted:

The go.cnn feed doesnt have that. It's some interview with Kobuchar(sp)

Lol interviewing the woman who let this dude off this first time he did this poo poo.

# ? May 30, 2020 04:47

Patware: Jan 3, 2005

Immanentized posted:

Whoa CNN has protestors at the White House getting froggy with the secret service

protestors gonna draxx them sklounst?

# ? May 30, 2020 04:47

CRUSTY MINGE: Mar 30, 2011; Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur

ded posted:

The go.cnn feed doesnt have that. It's some interview with Kobuchar(sp)

https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/cnn-news-usa.html

Same problem with Kloberella on the screen, but they're rotating between cities and occasionally stop on dc.

# ? May 30, 2020 04:51

ded: Oct 27, 2005; Kooler than Jesus

This stream has DC on the bottom right.

https://www.twitch.tv/inteldoge

edit : and it ended right as I posted it

# ? May 30, 2020 05:00

Arven: Sep 23, 2007

~~White house stream - https://www.facebook.com/johnathon.williams.332/videos/3244569558916059/?notif_id=1590806090663119%ACif_t=live_video~~ not live

Another one - https://www.facebook.com/fox46charlotte/videos/180692256632332/?v=180692256632332

*edit* Another - https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1PlJQmMjPPnJE

Arven fucked around with this message at 05:26 on May 30, 2020

# ? May 30, 2020 05:03

Best Friends: Nov 4, 2011

iwentdoodie posted:

Lol interviewing the woman who let this dude off this first time he did this poo poo.

I can't bear to watch but I'm going to guess they don't ask her about that at all?

# ? May 30, 2020 05:20

Woofer: Mar 2, 2020

https://twitter.com/erikstrobl/status/1266552025740906496?s=21

This was powerful.

# ? May 30, 2020 05:26

iwentdoodie: Apr 29, 2005; 🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗

Best Friends posted:

I can't bear to watch but I'm going to guess they don't ask her about that at all?

He didnt ask, he set her up with a vague statement and she pushed it off to her successor and grand jury and "well, I couldn't be responsible, I was a senator by the time all the facts came out"

# ? May 30, 2020 05:27

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

In what can only be called a good move done too late, an E-4B seems to be on its way toward Minneapolis: https://tar1090.adsbexchange.com/?icao=adfeb4

EDIT: Never mind - it just became trackable as it was coming into Omaha airspace to land at Offutt.

# ? May 30, 2020 05:29

Hot Karl Marx: Mar 16, 2009; Politburo regulations about social distancing require to downgrade your Karlmarxing to cold, and sorry about the dnc primaries, please enjoy!

dont worry its all over

https://twitter.com/cmarinucci/status/1266577471941427206

# ? May 30, 2020 05:37

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

BIG HEADLINE posted:

In what can only be called a good move done too late, an E-4B seems to be on its way toward Minneapolis: https://tar1090.adsbexchange.com/?icao=adfeb4

EDIT: Never mind - it just became trackable as it was coming into Omaha airspace to land at Offutt.

How would that help anything even if it headed to Minnesota?

# ? May 30, 2020 05:38

Diarrhea Elemental: Apr 2, 2012; Am I correct in my assumption, you fish-faced enemy of the people?

Hot Karl Marx posted:

dont worry its all over

https://twitter.com/cmarinucci/status/1266577471941427206

Aaaaaaaaaaand there's my crack-ping.

# ? May 30, 2020 05:40

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008

Hot Karl Marx posted:

dont worry its all over

https://twitter.com/cmarinucci/status/1266577471941427206

The moment when the healing began. :rolleyes:

This whole thing is starting to take on a weird Tunisia in late 2010 role. George Floyd�s death may be the catalyst for something significant. I dunno whether that significant thing is going to be bad or good.

# ? May 30, 2020 05:42

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Midjack posted:

How would that help anything even if it headed to Minnesota?

E-4Bs aren't *just* doomsday planes, they're also mobile FEMA command centers.

# ? May 30, 2020 05:45

Woofer: Mar 2, 2020

Whether long term this is good or bad, what is going on right now is necessary.

I�ve cheered when other countries have started fighting back.

I�m cheering now.

One of the best things I�ve noticed about all of this is how incredibly diverse it is. Black people aren�t fighting by themselves in any of the cities where it�s happening.

If you can�t look at that fact and see progress than I don�t know what progress is.

But maybe I just don�t remember how previous protests and riots went and I�m just desperate for a silver lining.

# ? May 30, 2020 05:46