|
piratepilates posted:tng only has no swear words (the movies have one or two) There are a few "hell"s in the series. There's one in Darmok that I know of. There are also some "drat"s too. I think that's as bad as they get though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILbLGNDqUxA
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 05:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 03:27 |
|
|
According to http://scriptsearch.dxdy.name/ there are 111 damns and 245 hells in TNG and the TNG movies. Edit: Whoops, it looks like a lot of those "hells" are actually "he'lls." Lester Shy fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jun 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 05:24
|
|
|
Nullsmack posted:There are a few "hell"s in the series. There's one in Darmok that I know of. There are also some "drat"s too. I don't give a drat about a hell.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 05:26
|
|
|
Double Dumb-rear end On You There's also a use of dipshit in that movie.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 05:29
|
|
|
What the hezmana are you yotzes on about?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 05:34
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJuHgBFZOSU
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 05:51
|
|
|
Son of Sam-I-Am posted:What the hezmana are you yotzes on about? Space this entire frelling conversation!
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 06:00
|
|
|
Lester Shy posted:According to http://scriptsearch.dxdy.name/ there are 111 damns and 245 hells in TNG and the TNG movies. What the hell, I didn't know that drat website existed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 06:20
|
|
|
Lester Shy posted:According to http://scriptsearch.dxdy.name/ there are 111 damns and 245 hells in TNG and the TNG movies. I was wondering how the hell people made videos like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz1c1xdoUFc
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 08:02
|
|
|
Nullsmack posted:There are a few "hell"s in the series. There's one in Darmok that I know of. There are also some "drat"s too. Pretty sure in one of the first or second seasons of TNG, Picard says "merde," the french word for 'poo poo.' Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGzW7zAj_EM
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 08:12
|
|
|
As good a time as any to remind people that McCoy never, ever said "Dammit Jim" on the series, and especially not "Goddammit Jim", except in the movies of course. "Let's get the hell out of here" at the end of City On The Edge Of Forever was a pretty bold move at the time, and that's as far as they went until the movies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
Sir Lemming posted:As good a time as any to remind people that McCoy never, ever said "Dammit Jim" on the series, and especially not "Goddammit Jim", except in the movies of course. "Let's get the hell out of here" at the end of City On The Edge Of Forever was a pretty bold move at the time, and that's as far as they went until the movies. drat it, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a censor!
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
Oh my god thank gently caress this run of really objectifying misogynist episodes in TNG S2 ended with Pulaski kicking all kinds of rear end in “Unnatural Selection”.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 04:35
|
|
|
More TOS, where the decline in overall quality is starting to slowly become apparent- A Piece of the Action- AKA the Mob Planet episode. I really struggle at the idea of a society being able to survive when it's entirely built around the concept of the Chicago Mob from the 1920s. It feels like everyone would have killed each other off way before the Enterprise ever arrived. The crew also keeps very easily getting captured/recaptured by the different mob people (this seriously happens at least four times). I get that the crew does not want to cause more damage to this society than has already been done, but the mess was already made and by the end of the episode they end up having to interfere pretty directly anyway. It's a little jarring when in the latter third of the episode, Kirk suddenly pretends to be a mobster and knows the slang despite not knowing what the Iotians were saying earlier. Overall it's alright but pretty forgettable other than the premise. The Immunity Syndrome- Now this is a well done episode. I had seen it many, many years ago but forgot most of it. The tension is built up throughout the episode, and it's much like The Doomsday Machine in that you at least feel like the Enterprise is in serious trouble and the stakes are pretty significant, as the crew comes to believe that this giant amoeba may be the first of its kind and it could wipe out most life if allowed to reproduce. Everything feels desperate and it's not until the very end that the problem is resolved. Definitely a top-tier TOS episode. A Private Little War- You can tell immediately from this episode that this is meant to be a Vietnam allegory. I think there is even an offhand reference to Vietnam at one point. In doing some reading, apparently the original draft of the script was even more blatant about it. I think the general idea of this story, where a proxy war on a stone-age planet between the Klingons and Federation makes a mess of the culture is a good one, but the execution is not great. It gets bogged down in the conflict between Kirk and the wife of the man who he had met years ago as a Lieutenant on the Farragut, who is constantly upset that her husband does not want to have open war with another tribe. There is a whole sub plot where Kirk is poisoned by a creature and saved by this woman, who is implied to be using Kirk against his will to get weapons. This is never 100% certain, but it's the majority of the episode. We briefly see a Klingon operative giving weapons to the rival tribe, but it's a very short part of the overall episode. At least thankfully by the end, Kirk backs off his original plan to arm his friend's tribe with weapons to match the ones the Klingons gave the enemy tribe. For most of the episode he's insistent that it's the only way. There isn't a resolution to that power imbalance by the end, but I think that's fine considering this episode was written in the middle of the escalation in Vietnam which had not yet been resolved. Overall the episode is ok, but I feel like with some changes it could be a potential classic. Return to Tomorrow- This episode is pretty forgettable. Again, the idea of there being survivors of an advanced civilization from half a million years ago is interesting, but we never end up learning much about them by the time the episode is over. The script is also filled with Deus Ex Machinas towards the end that just become tiring. Suddenly these beings have way more power than mentioned previously which conveniently is a good way to work around the obvious problems like Kirk being 'dead', and later Spock being 'dead'. Overall this one is pretty dull and isn't even strange enough to be memorable at all. Not much more to say about it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 05:31
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Overall this one is pretty dull and isn't even strange enough to be memorable at all. Not much more to say about it. They used to say that if Trekkies liked Star Trek, they'd stop bitching...but they do bitch. They realize that they have to. Do you wish that Rick Berman hadn't gotten PTSD from the nerdrage, or that we hadn't whined Manny Coto into the best season of Enterprise, or forced the studio to reboot the franchise after Nemesis? That's like saying you wish that you were still watching Trek on your VHS tapes like your father and grandfather used to. I'm not a mod, but I am nerd. I could make you reconsider your choices, but I'm not...because...you are right in pointing out the enormous danger of becoming bored as gently caress with some TOS episodes. But I must point out the possibilities, the potential for top quality episodes and memorable moments is equally great! Bitching...bitching is our business! That's what this thread is about! That's why we're shitposting in it! You may disagree without risk of probation, of course.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 06:29
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:More TOS, where the decline in overall quality is starting to slowly become apparent- The Chicago mobster planet concept was actually in the original series pitch, and I'm guessing it got developed for want of any better story treatments to develop; TOS was always desperate for shootable scripts. It's probably for the best that Gene Coon produced it as a comedy episode, it probably would have been awful if they'd tried to play it straight.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 07:29
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:It's probably for the best that Gene Coon produced it as a comedy episode, it probably would have been awful if they'd tried to play it straight. c.f. "Omega Glory, The".
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 07:38
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:TOS was always desperate for shootable scripts. Lest we forget that Gene wanted to include an episode in a hypothetical TOS season 4 (or was it a Phase Two pitch?) that involved Spock being the shooter on the grassy knoll.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 08:30
|
|
|
Drone posted:Lest we forget that Gene wanted to include an episode in a hypothetical TOS season 4 (or was it a Phase Two pitch?) that involved Spock being the shooter on the grassy knoll. I dunno that knoll is getting awfully crowded  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6naJ08Tskk
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 08:38
|
|
|
Drone posted:Lest we forget that Gene wanted to include an episode in a hypothetical TOS season 4 (or was it a Phase Two pitch?) that involved Spock being the shooter on the grassy knoll. It was his pitch for every movie after the first.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 10:42
|
|
|
There was no political dimension, he just lusted to kill.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 16:59
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:A Private Little War- You can tell immediately from this episode that this is meant to be a Vietnam allegory. I think there is even an offhand reference to Vietnam at one point. In doing some reading, apparently the original draft of the script was even more blatant about it. I think the general idea of this story, where a proxy war on a stone-age planet between the Klingons and Federation makes a mess of the culture is a good one, but the execution is not great. It gets bogged down in the conflict between Kirk and the wife of the man who he had met years ago as a Lieutenant on the Farragut, who is constantly upset that her husband does not want to have open war with another tribe. There is a whole sub plot where Kirk is poisoned by a creature and saved by this woman, who is implied to be using Kirk against his will to get weapons. This is never 100% certain, but it's the majority of the episode. We briefly see a Klingon operative giving weapons to the rival tribe, but it's a very short part of the overall episode. At least thankfully by the end, Kirk backs off his original plan to arm his friend's tribe with weapons to match the ones the Klingons gave the enemy tribe. For most of the episode he's insistent that it's the only way. There isn't a resolution to that power imbalance by the end, but I think that's fine considering this episode was written in the middle of the escalation in Vietnam which had not yet been resolved. Overall the episode is ok, but I feel like with some changes it could be a potential classic. Unpopular opinion: I think Kirk was right to keep both sides armed at the same level. It was an imperfect solution to a problem that had gotten out of hand, and it was much better than the hands off approach that TNG tended to take with the Prime Directive.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 18:15
|
|
|
F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Unpopular opinion: I think Kirk was right to keep both sides armed at the same level. It was an imperfect solution to a problem that had gotten out of hand, and it was much better than the hands off approach that TNG tended to take with the Prime Directive.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 18:38
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t think there were any ‘good’ options to the dilemma. The obvious problem of giving the tribe flintlocks to match the other tribe is that you end up with an arms race. No, there wasn't. One thing I like about the original over TNG is the fact that they gave Kirk a lot more latitude to make that call than in TNG, where the Federation apparently made the top-down decision to follow the letter of the law rather than its spirit. But you're right about the arms race. Too Short A Season would have been a better episode if it had been about revisiting Tyree's planet after Kirk's plan was put into place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 18:44
|
|
|
I think one of the differences between TOS and TNG was that TNG seemed a lot less tolerant of moral ambiguity than TOS. There were a bunch of TOS episodes where Kirk looked back at the end and said basically, "I did what I had to do and I'm pretty sure what I did was right, but we can't know for sure." TNG seemed a lot more confident that what they were doing was right.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 18:48
|
|
|
Epicurius posted:I think one of the differences between TOS and TNG was that TNG seemed a lot less tolerant of moral ambiguity than TOS. There were a bunch of TOS episodes where Kirk looked back at the end and said basically, "I did what I had to do and I'm pretty sure what I did was right, but we can't know for sure." TNG seemed a lot more confident that what they were doing was right. Tough men making tough decisions!
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 20:18
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t think there were any ‘good’ options to the dilemma. Neither did Kirk in the episode. His hand gets forced and he picks what seems to him like the least terrible option.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 20:22
|
|
|
Drink-Mix Man posted:Tough men making tough decisions! Sort of, I guess. But more an understanding of your own fallibility? You do what you can to try to help, and you manage to help change things, but you don't know for sure if your changes are, in the long term, going to be for the better. You've destroyed the computer they worship, and now maybe the people of the planet will have a chance to actually expand and develop on their own, but it's going to be hard for a people who lived their entire life being told what to do. You've killed the god Apollo and freed your ship, but there's some regret in that, because he did inspire the Greeks and help bring about western civilization. You've stopped the Klingons from taking over the planet, but only by giving your friends more advanced weapons and teaching them how to kill. Some of these things are tough decisions, but even when they're not, they're decisions with consequences. And I think Kirk had a lot more self-doubt in him and was a lot more emotionally vulnerable than Picard was.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 20:48
|
|
|
Picard’s a lot different in how he approaches problems though. He typically sees violence as the last resort. The Federation is also radically different in his time compared to Kirk’s, so I don’t know if there will be a good way to compare the two
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 20:59
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Picard’s a lot different in how he approaches problems though. He typically sees violence as the last resort. The Federation is also radically different in his time compared to Kirk’s, so I don’t know if there will be a good way to compare the two As to the first point, I think the same is true of Kirk. You've been watching through the TOS episodes. Does Kirk ever engage in unprovoked violence? The only time he uses force is when he, his crew, or his ship are in danger, and even then, it's minimal force. He pretty much never kills, and he's more likely to outsmart his enemies than outfight them. As to the second point, obviously, Kirk, Picard, the Federation, etc. are all made up, so when I say "Kirk had a lot more self-doubt in him and was a lot more emotionally vulnerable than Picard was" it means the same as "TNG seemed a lot less tolerant of moral ambiguity than TOS.". I think a good question to ask is why that's the case? Why was the original series willing to show its characters as flawed and self doubting, while TNG tended towards the smug and self satisfied?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 21:18
|
|
|
I think a lot of it is because the show was formed under a show bible that said that (according to Gene) humanity had moved past major conflicts. This stuck, as much as the later producers tried to shake things up a bit so that the character interactions didn’t become too stale.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 21:25
|
|
|
Epicurius posted:As to the first point, I think the same is true of Kirk. You've been watching through the TOS episodes. Does Kirk ever engage in unprovoked violence? The only time he uses force is when he, his crew, or his ship are in danger, and even then, it's minimal force. He pretty much never kills, and he's more likely to outsmart his enemies than outfight them. Even when he does engage in unprovoked violence, Kirk is usually cast as the one who is in the wrong. Part of what makes Arena and Errand of Mercy such brilliant episodes is that they set you up to believe that Kirk is right: the Gorn and the Klingons have to be stopped at all costs. But then you realize that Kirk is being as much of a warmonger as his enemies. I think it's clever because instead of hitting the audience over the head with a message (cough Let That Be Your Last Battlefield cough), the anti-war message is completely unexpected and shows Kirk to be a flawed - but well-meaning - human being.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 21:41
|
|
|
F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Even when he does engage in unprovoked violence, Kirk is usually cast as the one who is in the wrong. Part of what makes Arena and Errand of Mercy such brilliant episodes is that they set you up to believe that Kirk is right: the Gorn and the Klingons have to be stopped at all costs. But then you realize that Kirk is being as much of a warmonger as his enemies. I think it's clever because instead of hitting the audience over the head with a message (cough Let That Be Your Last Battlefield cough), the anti-war message is completely unexpected and shows Kirk to be a flawed - but well-meaning - human being.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 23:06
|
|
|
Drink-Mix Man posted:Tough men making tough decisions! The "hard men making hard choices" meme is predicated on the inherent hypocrisy in that premise -- the stock "hard men" aren't, they're chickenhawks who deflect as much responsibility and consequence as possible onto others every single time, which makes their choices as easy as they are cowardly. So I guess the typical Star Trek moral dilemma is actually "hard men making hard choices" played straight, because they really are "hard" (in that they have the inner strength to set ego aside and examine conflicts from every perspective, and strive for peaceful solutions whenever possible) and make "hard choices" (up to and including destroying themselves to uphold their principles or to defend the helpless, even strangers who will never know their sacrifice, instead of engaging in soulless realpolitik).
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 23:49
|
|
|
McSpanky posted:The "hard men making hard choices" meme is predicated on the inherent hypocrisy in that premise -- the stock "hard men" aren't, they're chickenhawks who deflect as much responsibility and consequence as possible onto others every single time, which makes their choices as easy as they are cowardly. So I guess the typical Star Trek moral dilemma is actually "hard men making hard choices" played straight, because they really are "hard" (in that they have the inner strength to set ego aside and examine conflicts from every perspective, and strive for peaceful solutions whenever possible) and make "hard choices" (up to and including destroying themselves to uphold their principles or to defend the helpless, even strangers who will never know their sacrifice, instead of engaging in soulless realpolitik). quoting this for later, because wow that's a good phrasing
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 23:53
|
|
|
I don't know all the behind the scenes drama, but I'm wondering was there any consideration given to setting up another series when DS9 ended, to keep two Star Trek series on air at once? Or did they kind of realize "one is the right number and we should just leave it at Voyager and set up something else after that?"
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2020 00:07
|
|
|
Arivia posted:I don't know all the behind the scenes drama, but I'm wondering was there any consideration given to setting up another series when DS9 ended, to keep two Star Trek series on air at once? Or did they kind of realize "one is the right number and we should just leave it at Voyager and set up something else after that?" They were pretty much in a "wait and see" mode, because DS9's viewership had been drastically lower than TNG's (helped in no small part by fuckery on the part of the syndicating stations in several large markets like Chicago and New York), and after a gangbusters premiere, Voyager's ratings cratered.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2020 00:18
|
|
|
I remember watching Voyager's TWO HOUR SEASON PREMIERE EVENT on UPN (which we barely got because the only translator was miles and miles away) and realizing at the end that I didn't give a poo poo about any of the characters or what had just happened. I think I caught the next episode where they find a "hole" in the event horizon of a black hole and that ruined what was otherwise a perfectly average episode of TNG with bad replacement actors and I gave up then. Edit: Not really criticizing anyone particularly as an actor, there's some good talent in Voyager but it's utterly wasted in the pilot. Even Mulgrew's speech at the end is just...flat. Zurui fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 9, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2020 00:27
|
|
|
Timby posted:They were pretty much in a "wait and see" mode, because DS9's viewership had been drastically lower than TNG's (helped in no small part by fuckery on the part of the syndicating stations in several large markets like Chicago and New York), and after a gangbusters premiere, Voyager's ratings cratered. Makes sense!
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2020 00:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 03:27 |
|
|
bull3964 posted:Specifically, the book had a B plot with a former drone that they recovered from a planet following a cube's destruction. That drone was a human woman freighter captain assimilated 13 years ago. They tried re-integrating her into society, but it didn't go well. I was 11 when this novel came out and I was a positively rabid Borg fanboy so getting it was like Christmas, but I still have vivid memories of one scene playing in my imagination to this day. During a like psychotic episode with this former drone she wound up breaking a window somehow and ended up basically plugging it with her arm because of the pressure differential before the emergency force field snapped on and amputated the arm at the shoulder. She then proceeded to hose down the room with blood in total silence and they just barely saved her from bleeding out. They fitted her with a prosthetic and it made her happy because to her it was like becoming more Borg  I still love this novel. Hipster_Doofus posted:I was 21 years old, living in Boston, voluntarily homeless (long story) in the summer of 91, and I read that entire novel in one go, overnight, while sitting on a bench near the New England Aquarium, tripping my socks off on It really was great. In retrospect I think hallucinogens combined with all the Borg creepiness would have sent me screaming away. Lordshmee fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jun 9, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2020 02:03
|
|
s and plenty of 
. I didn't take any breaks except for weed and possibly to roll cigarettes, though tobacco may very well have not even crossed my mind, cos that's just how trippin' is. I was glued to that bench.