Command & Conquer Remastered Collection | Welcome back Commander [C&C1+RA1]

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ErrEff: Feb 13, 2012

Escape Goat posted:

With the Saturn/PS1 discussion, I looked up the N64 version of C&C. Woof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0dCOwh8gNo

N64's weaknesses are on full display with the texture detail and lack of storage for FMV. Pretty interesting port though, 3D models!

And a MIDI soundtrack... that's not bad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWbl4KBpZW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBOn3zG8Wdg

I'm impressed at how they got around the animated cutscene limitations by simply re-enacting a bunch of the cutscenes in-engine. Like... it's horrible but they loving tried.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP3xhddUDKI

It's too bad about the music because the N64 supported audio streaming at that point in its lifespan but for some reason the game didn't use that tech, even though it was a Nintendo-published game.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 04:33

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:05

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

What the gently caress

Did they have to completely rewrite the whole game?

# ? Jun 10, 2020 04:37

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK: Sep 11, 2001

FrickenMoron posted:

Which of the Nod 13 Mission is actually the easiest?

Left gives you enough tiberium for a starting base but sandwiches you between 2 missile gunboat rivers.
Middle seems to want you to migrate your MCV somewhere else but the starting force is terrible
Right seems to be a gimmick where you have to build your mcv/hand of nod in a remote location then capture a base using commando & engineers.

I did mission 13a or the left one. The gunboats aren't really that big of a deal and you can just build a turret or two to deal with them. I don't think I lost a single harvester to the gunboats and I just kinda ignored the top one.

Once you take over the gdi base, you can scout the other 2 gdi bases and use the chinooks full of engineers to completely takeover or cripple them. From there it's just clean up.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 04:38

Twerk from Home: Jan 17, 2009; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

ErrEff posted:

I'm impressed at how they got around the animated cutscene limitations by simply re-enacting a bunch of the cutscenes in-engine. Like... it's horrible but they loving tried.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP3xhddUDKI

It's too bad about the music because the N64 supported audio streaming at that point in its lifespan but for some reason the game didn't use that tech, even though it was a Nintendo-published game.

This is absolutely insane. My mind is blown, what a creative different port.

About the sound, I'm going to guess that with all the voice lines, they already had a huge expensive cartridge and couldn't or didn't want to burn even more memory for music.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 04:45

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Edit: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ BAHAHAHAHA that kane T-pose

Here's the target decision for campaign airstrikes

https://github.com/spookydonut/CnC_Remastered_Collection/blob/d9e287e08b3e2fb3e46690d1029f90e3b17faf0f/TIBERIANDAWN/AIRCRAFT.CPP#L625
https://github.com/spookydonut/CnC_Remastered_Collection/blob/d9e287e08b3e2fb3e46690d1029f90e3b17faf0f/TIBERIANDAWN/TECHNO.CPP#L1732

https://github.com/spookydonut/CnC_Remastered_Collection/blob/d9e287e08b3e2fb3e46690d1029f90e3b17faf0f/TIBERIANDAWN/TECHNO.CPP#L1301

Most notably:

code:

	int rawval = object->Value();
	value = rawval + object->Kills;

Kill counts matter for targetting.

Then:

code:

	/*
	**	Lessen threat as a factor of distance.
	*/
	if (range == -1 && value) {  // spookydonut NOTE: range is -1 always for the purposes of A10 targetting
		/*
		** Code from RA so that the value isn't always 2 on a mapwide scan with the range set to -1. ST - 3/2/2020 5:02PM
		*/
		value = (value * 32000) / ((dist/ICON_LEPTON_W)+1);
	} else {
		/*
		** Original TD code
		*/
		int modifier = dist;
		int crange = range / ICON_LEPTON_W;
		if (crange) modifier /= crange;
		if (modifier) value /= modifier;
	}
	if (rawval) {
		value = MAX(value, 2);
	}
	return(true);

So yes it appears they have changed the logic slightly, but it's actually a bugfix since the original code didn't work as intended.

Spookydonut fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Jun 10, 2020

# ? Jun 10, 2020 04:50

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

that must surely be one of the first examples of an RTS doing in-game cutscenes?

# ? Jun 10, 2020 04:51

OneEightHundred: Feb 28, 2008; Soon, we will be unstoppable!

Spookydonut posted:

Kill counts matter for targetting.

Does that include intentionally killing your own minigunners to make a juicy bait unit?

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

that must surely be one of the first examples of an RTS doing in-game cutscenes?

The N64 port was released after StarCraft, so technically no.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 05:13

Escape Goat: Jan 30, 2009

ErrEff posted:

I'm impressed at how they got around the animated cutscene limitations by simply re-enacting a bunch of the cutscenes in-engine. Like... it's horrible but they loving tried.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP3xhddUDKI

It's too bad about the music because the N64 supported audio streaming at that point in its lifespan but for some reason the game didn't use that tech, even though it was a Nintendo-published game.

. I didn't see the cutscenes. What a port.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 05:15

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

OneEightHundred posted:

Does that include intentionally killing your own minigunners to make a juicy bait unit?

Strangely yes that helps, kill tracking doesn't care about friendly fire.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 05:20

Chev: Jul 19, 2010; Switchblade Switcharoo

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

What the gently caress

Did they have to completely rewrite the whole game?

It's easy to forget but it's in the era where completely rewriting the ports was the norm.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 06:11

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

The N64 port was done by Looking Glass Studios of Thief and System Shock fame, during their period when they were owned by a company that mostly did, like, software for cars, but had a weird fixation on the N64 and wanted to make N64 games. A lot of the profits from the Thief games were sunk into the resulting N64 ports, ultimately helping kill Looking Glass off after System Shock 2's post-Columbine issues getting marketing and retail traction.

I think Westwood did the Playstation port themselves.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 06:38

Vakal: May 11, 2008

BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

It makes thing extra spicy when your harvester thinks the shortest path to resources is through an enemy base

Of course the same holds true for the AI

Which is all fine and good until an enemy harvester does it early in a stage, triggering a massive enemy counter attack before you have anything built.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 07:01

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

So I just figured out another thing Hard changes: Harvesters don't auto-heal back to 50%. Weirdly the Mammoth tank still does but I had a Harvester in the red for almost an entire mission.

I have to say, my modification to the difficulty has made things way more fun. I'm up to the final GDI mission and other than some save scums/reloads when I screwed up this has been going much smoother than the NOD campaign. Then again, the GDI campaign (minus a few particularly nasty missions) is far easier than the NOD campaign.

obese retard posted:

Stupid question inbound:

Do mods for this game disable obtaining achievements? I know some games will do this when you install/play with mods from the workshop.

Nope. Hell, I don't even know if they disable online play. Haven't tried to play online (since I don't really enjoy it) since I changed the definitions for hard difficulty.

axeil fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Jun 10, 2020

# ? Jun 10, 2020 07:37

Chronojam: Feb 20, 2006; This is me on vacation in Amsterdam
Never be afraid of being yourself!

Using even the modem wall construction workshop mod disabled online play for me

# ? Jun 10, 2020 08:00

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

axeil posted:

So I just figured out another thing Hard changes: Harvesters don't auto-heal back to 50%. Weirdly the Mammoth tank still does but I had a Harvester in the red for almost an entire mission.

I have to say, my modification to the difficulty has made things way more fun. I'm up to the final GDI mission and other than some save scums/reloads when I screwed up this has been going much smoother than the NOD campaign. Then again, the GDI campaign (minus a few particularly nasty missions) is far easier than the NOD campaign.

Nope. Hell, I don't even know if they disable online play. Haven't tried to play online (since I don't really enjoy it) since I changed the definitions for hard difficulty.

Nope - in c&c it was only mammoths that self heal,
Harvesters only started healing in RA

# ? Jun 10, 2020 08:03

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Yeah if you have a different .dll you can't play online.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 08:35

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK: Sep 11, 2001

The Covert Ops missions are mostly pretty fun and challenging. Some are a fun puzzle to figure out like the last Nod mission. GDI mission 30 where you have to evacuate the delegates after the nuke is terrible and easily the worst mission of the bunch.

Nod mission 30 was surprisingly hard. I had to restart that one and not burn down the whole village because the GDI retaliation is very harsh. Just burn down the 3 structures for cash and then stop. I ended up making my base north of the village in the pass. It's a good thing the whole map is basically covered in tiberium because you will need it to survive the constant GDI attacks.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 09:37

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK: Sep 11, 2001

Is it just me or is the audio busted for the console exclusive TD missions? The music isn't playing and all the bonus features don't play the audio either.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 12:54

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

DLL mods disable online play because all the online play is hosted on EA's servers and they're not that crazy. I believe the plan was for multiplayer mods to be handled by LAN support (combined with Hamachi or whatever, I guess?), but that got put aside as a possible post-launch thing due to the pandemic making it very hard to test. Hopefully the game's success has bought the dev team some time to go back to this once huge QA labs full of networked PCs are safe to return to again.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 12:58

Sheen Sheen: Nov 18, 2002

I imagine we�ll be getting TS and RA2 remasters at some point in the future (fingers crossed!), but what I�m really hoping for is that this whole experiment renews interest in C&C enough for EA to take it seriously again and maybe bring the franchise back from the dead with games that are actually good

# ? Jun 10, 2020 13:21

Entorwellian: Jun 30, 2006; ~~Northern Flicker~~
Anna's Hummingbird

Sorry, but the people have spoken.

Sheen Sheen posted:

I imagine we�ll be getting TS and RA2 remasters at some point in the future (fingers crossed!), but what I�m really hoping for is that this whole experiment renews interest in C&C enough for EA to take it seriously again and maybe bring the franchise back from the dead with games that are actually good

I think someone mentioned there was a very vague hint that they're in production: In the Kane Lives vid, in the transparent background text to the right, there is a quote about Red Alert 2.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 14:15

Slavik: May 10, 2009

BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

There was another map on PS1 Retaliation my friend and I used to play on link cable that had tesla-civilians and nuke-civilians, and the best way to get civies was to build advanced power plants and then sell them, which would leave 2 or 3 civvies behind. It was incredibly dope.

I think the map was named "The Hills Have Eyes" on pc? Lot of fun!

# ? Jun 10, 2020 14:46

power crystals: Jun 6, 2007; Who wants a belly rub??

Sheen Sheen posted:

maybe bring the franchise back from the dead with games that are actually good

How the hell does this place not have a monkey's paw smilie.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 14:52

Sheen Sheen: Nov 18, 2002

power crystals posted:

How the hell does this place not have a monkey's paw smilie.

Hey, I put the �games that are actually good� caveat in there! :v:

I know EA sucks and all, but it�s not like there haven�t been any good C&C games since EA acquired the C&C IP; RA2/YR, which I consider to be the pinnacle of C&C and the RTS genre as a whole, was published by EA, and Generals, C&C3 and RA3 and their expansions are all well-regarded games even if they weren�t as popular as the games that came before it. The fact that EA allowed Petroglyph to make the remasters without meddling too much, and the fact that people seem to be buying the remasters, gives me a tiny bit of optimism for the future of a franchise I had thought was dead and buried.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 15:14

Insert name here: Nov 10, 2009; Oh.
Oh Dear.

power crystals posted:

How the hell does this place not have a monkey's paw smilie.

With the current popularity of battle royale games it's finally time for C&C Sole Survivor to take its rightful place as the greatest C&C game of all time

# ? Jun 10, 2020 15:15

Mordja: Apr 26, 2014; Hell Gem

Beat the GDI campaign (on Normal because Hard sounds like it was made for ball torture enthusiasts) though I had to reload thanks to those surprise nukes. :argh:

Still, this actually marks the first time I've actually beaten a C&C campaign at all!

I'm gonna switch things up and jump over to Red Alert, play the Allied campaign. Interested in seeing the advances between the two games, because I never actually played RA at all back in the day. In fact, until not all that long ago I'd actually thought that it was made before TD.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 16:03

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

Sheen Sheen posted:

Hey, I put the �games that are actually good� caveat in there!

I know EA sucks and all, but it�s not like there haven�t been any good C&C games since EA acquired the C&C IP; RA2/YR, which I consider to be the pinnacle of C&C and the RTS genre as a whole, was published by EA, and Generals, C&C3 and RA3 and their expansions are all well-regarded games even if they weren�t as popular as the games that came before it. The fact that EA allowed Petroglyph to make the remasters without meddling too much, and the fact that people seem to be buying the remasters, gives me a tiny bit of optimism for the future of a franchise I had thought was dead and buried.

I really want to know what the hell happened with C&C4. I've never seen a game in a franchise that's been that bad and so universally hated. It's like Daikatana except in a franchise that's been running for almost 30 years. It's baffling.

I think I played about 2? 3? missions before giving up and never playing again. And now I hear it's actually impossible to play because the activation servers were deactivated.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 16:21

Gadzuko: Feb 14, 2005

axeil posted:

I really want to know what the hell happened with C&C4. I've never seen a game in a franchise that's been that bad and so universally hated. It's like Daikatana except in a franchise that's been running for almost 30 years. It's baffling.

I think I played about 2? 3? missions before giving up and never playing again. And now I hear it's actually impossible to play because the activation servers were deactivated.

IIRC it was originally intended as a multiplayer only arena spin-off kind of thing. Someone decided to make it a full sequel instead, threw together a campaign and some FMVs and pushed it out the door.

I do hope this release convinces EA to bring back the IP. Even if they don't want to make a RTS game, they could rip off mgs5 for a renegade remake that might be decent or a battlefield game set in the c&c universe. I'd play that.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 16:27

Mordja: Apr 26, 2014; Hell Gem

axeil posted:

I really want to know what the hell happened with C&C4. I've never seen a game in a franchise that's been that bad and so universally hated. It's like Daikatana except in a franchise that's been running for almost 30 years. It's baffling.

I think I played about 2? 3? missions before giving up and never playing again. And now I hear it's actually impossible to play because the activation servers were deactivated.

I think it was originally supposed to be a Chinese F2P spinoff wasn't it?

# ? Jun 10, 2020 16:32

Mordja: Apr 26, 2014; Hell Gem

The funny thing is I kind of enjoyed the open beta for what it was, an arena take on the muiltiplayer rts, it just wasn't a proper C&C game and it wasn't something that should have been $60. And of course post-release, learning of the horrible campaign/story and the fact that singleplayer used the same levelling to unlock units as the multiplayer left it dead to me.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 16:37

power crystals: Jun 6, 2007; Who wants a belly rub??

Yeah, C&C4 as a game was okay, but the campaign/story were utterly dire and "unlocking" units for singleplayer was insanely stupid. Hopefully if we get a 5 they'll just pretend 4 never happened.

Insert name here posted:

With the current popularity of battle royale games it's finally time for C&C Sole Survivor to take its rightful place as the greatest C&C game of all time

I'm legitimately surprised that they haven't already done this. I never got to play Sole Survivor at the time but from what I've seen it looks like it'd take all of like two weeks to (re)write the actual game since it just uses TD's assets.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 16:47

Mordja: Apr 26, 2014; Hell Gem

power crystals posted:

Yeah, C&C4 as a game was okay, but the campaign/story were utterly dire and "unlocking" units for singleplayer was insanely stupid. Hopefully if we get a 5 they'll just pretend 4 never happened.

Since ~~Poochy~~Kane returned to his home planet in that one, they'd kind of have to wouldn't they?

# ? Jun 10, 2020 16:52

Arrrthritis: May 31, 2007; I don't care if you're a star, the moon, or the whole damn sky, you need to come back down to earth and remember where you came from

Gadzuko posted:

IIRC it was originally intended as a multiplayer only arena spin-off kind of thing. Someone decided to make it a full sequel instead, threw together a campaign and some FMVs and pushed it out the door.

I do hope this release convinces EA to bring back the IP. Even if they don't want to make a RTS game, they could rip off mgs5 for a renegade remake that might be decent or a battlefield game set in the c&c universe. I'd play that.

I hope that they make a Command and Conquer 4 and just pretend that the last one didn't happen.

Mordja posted:

Since ~~Poochy~~Kane returned to his home planet in that one, they'd kind of have to wouldn't they?

Kane's Gone? YEAH RIGHT

# ? Jun 10, 2020 16:55

Burns: May 10, 2008

So long as they call it tiberium midafternoon.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 17:10

Carecat: Apr 27, 2004; Buglord

A bigger crime than C&C4 was them having a fully functional C&C Generals 2, tried to make it F2P and then threw the entire thing in the bin.

And that was two years after C&C4! They already knew that trying to fit the RTS into a mass market pleasing competitive model was a failure but god knows you should waste your time making 9 fad chasing failures to try and get that 1 billion dollar title.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 17:22

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Gadzuko posted:

I do hope this release convinces EA to bring back the IP. Even if they don't want to make a RTS game, they could rip off mgs5 for a renegade remake that might be decent or a battlefield game set in the c&c universe. I'd play that.

Petroglyph is working on a spiritual successor to Renegade multiplayer, using their own IP, that's getting a public demo next week as part of Steam's Summer Games Fest event.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 17:25

Nostalgamus: Sep 28, 2010

Spookydonut posted:

airstrike explanation

Thanks, that makes more sense than what I was looking at.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 17:35

A Nice Big Dinner: Feb 17, 2006

Carecat posted:

A bigger crime than C&C4 was them having a fully functional C&C Generals 2, tried to make it F2P and then threw the entire thing in the bin.

As much as I would like a remake of C&C 4 to make it a more proper and worthy entry into the Tiberium franchise, I feel like Generals has been long overdue for a revival and I think I would actually want a proper Generals 2 game over a new Tiberium or Red Alert game (not including a TibSun/RA2 remaster. I'd like those ASAP please!)

I know that most people in the C&C community tend to see the Generals franchise like a weird step-cousin that likes to sniff glue and eat his own boogers, but I actually enjoyed Generals for what it was, especially the Zero Hour expansion, and I think a lot of other people eventually warmed up to it as well.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 17:41

Mordja: Apr 26, 2014; Hell Gem

The Kins posted:

Petroglyph is working on a spiritual successor to Renegade multiplayer, using their own IP, that's getting a public demo next week as part of Steam's Summer Games Fest event.

Knew about the game, not about the demo.

obese retard posted:

I know that most people in the C&C community tend to see the Generals franchise like a weird step-cousin that likes to sniff glue and eat his own boogers, but I actually enjoyed Generals for what it was, especially the Zero Hour expansion, and I think a lot of other people eventually warmed up to it as well.

It's the best game in the series OP.

# ? Jun 10, 2020 17:47

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:05

Sheen Sheen: Nov 18, 2002

I would take a Generals sequel. Or a Tiberium sequel. Or a Red Alert sequel. Hell, I would take any new RTS game with a fun single player campaign at this point, I think C&C3 was the last time I played one

# ? Jun 10, 2020 17:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Command & Conquer Remastered Collection | Welcome back Commander [C&C1+RA1]

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