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Weka posted:This is from a while ago but I happened to be reading about these today and I recalled there was some confusion about how to use them. They have a spout in the mouth, you plug it with your thumb and scoop wine into it, then remove your thumb and let the wine run into your mouth. The ancient equivalent of a beer bong. Well my interest in buying replica rhytons just went way up
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Jun 9, 2020 15:54
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 Arruns "the rat-snitch good-time-ruiner" of Closium.
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Jun 9, 2020 16:00
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Do you we know how many times steel was invented?
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Jun 9, 2020 16:08
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No. It's possible it was only invented once and the technology spread, but IIRC majority opinion is it popped up a few places in the old world. The earliest steel shows up in Anatolia.
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Jun 9, 2020 16:12
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Grand Fromage posted:No. It's possible it was only invented once and the technology spread, but IIRC majority opinion is it popped up a few places in the old world. The earliest steel shows up in Anatolia. This is what historians refer to as the Riddle of Steel.
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Jun 9, 2020 16:45
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You'd be better off setting up a chording keyboard like a brailler.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:31
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Jun 9, 2020 17:36
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They've got 6 years to identify all the old walking paths in Britain before landowners are allowed to close them off for good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dYc0Ouxhx0 https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ramblers-protect-rights-and-corpse-roads https://www.ramblers.org.uk/dontloseyourway/ It does seem like one of those things that satellite archaeology would come in handy for.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:34
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FAUXTON posted:now the lugal can google This was fantastic
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Jun 10, 2020 00:00
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Grand Fromage posted:No. It's possible it was only invented once and the technology spread, but IIRC majority opinion is it popped up a few places in the old world. The earliest steel shows up in Anatolia. iirc archaeologists are pretty convinced that iron working was developed independently in subSaharan Africa. Meanwhile whether East Asia imported the tech from the steppe or developed it themselves is still disputed.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:15
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Squalid posted:Meanwhile whether East Asia imported the tech from the steppe or developed it themselves is still disputed. There's also a theory that it was both; China invented it independently, but it spread to Mongolia -> Korea -> Japan from the western steppe rather than China, since China's iron was cast but the latter all used bloomeries.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:41
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Lol at Braintree and Holme just hanging out among all the Latin names. A quick look at wikipedia implies that we don't know the Roman name for the settlements there.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:44
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e: wrong thread
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Jun 10, 2020 02:21
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What's the building with the three giant arches at the back? I've got photos of it from when I was in Rome 20 years ago, but no idea what it is.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:59
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Elissimpark posted:What's the building with the three giant arches at the back? I've got photos of it from when I was in Rome 20 years ago, but no idea what it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_Maxentius
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Jun 10, 2020 03:04
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Seeing the real size of this thing was phantastic
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Jun 10, 2020 06:16
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yeah that's what ur mom said
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Jun 10, 2020 06:58
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Roman Moretum (Herbed cheese spread)  Source (with truly amusing copyright notices) https://tavolamediterranea.com/2018/01/15/columellas-moretum/
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Jun 10, 2020 07:49
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Not enough cabbage in there.
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Jun 10, 2020 07:56
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That’s the sort of copyright you’d put on the spicier sort of religious scripture
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Jun 10, 2020 08:22
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CommunityEdition posted:That’s the sort of copyright you’d put on the spicier sort of religious scripture *Turns on reader view* ubinam deus tuus nunc est? 
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Jun 10, 2020 12:43
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Squalid posted:iirc archaeologists are pretty convinced that iron working was developed independently in subSaharan Africa. Meanwhile whether East Asia imported the tech from the steppe or developed it themselves is still disputed. If I remember African arch correctly, the thinking is that it also emerged independently several times within Africa, with Nubia and the Nok region being the big two, and maybe a third in the Interlacustrine Region. Though the Interlacustrine is close enough to Nubia and uses a similar enough technique that it may have come from there. Studies of the big internal African trade networks are in their infancy.
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Jun 11, 2020 06:44
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Thanks! Power Khan posted:Seeing the real size of this thing was phantastic Also this.
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Jun 12, 2020 03:03
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KiteAuraan posted:If I remember African arch correctly, the thinking is that it also emerged independently several times within Africa, with Nubia and the Nok region being the big two, and maybe a third in the Interlacustrine Region. Though the Interlacustrine is close enough to Nubia and uses a similar enough technique that it may have come from there. Studies of the big internal African trade networks are in their infancy.
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Jun 12, 2020 13:35
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Elissimpark posted:Thanks! When I was there, they had a mobile platform hanging down there with people doing some work. You don't really get the insane scale of these arches, unless there's a person right there for reference. Still need to see the Hagia Sophia.
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Jun 12, 2020 13:53
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I'd really enjoy hearing more about this. Me too. The only one I know of is in Tanzania, and it was around 2000 years ago so it's possible it was spread from the Mediterranean down the East African sea routes. But I also don't know what tech they were using, it may be obviously independent invention if they were doing something more primitive than Mediterranean steel making.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:14
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I'm really curious to know more too. On the surface level it sounds kinda unbelievable to me that iron was invented in Africa independently multiple times before bronze, when it seems to have come afterwards literally everywhere else in the world, and possibly only invented once and spread from there. But then I'm not an archaeologist so if this is the favored theory then they surely know better than me about how it all works. It has me wondering a bit about how some of this technology diffuses though. Like for China it was made using blast furnaces first which is distinct from the bloomeries their neighbors used, but is that because Chinese metalsmiths encountered this cool grey metal via trade and realized "hey wait so we can make that too?" and figured it out from there their own way, or was it genuinely just that they got iron from nothing? Likewise for Sub-Saharan Africa, it shows up there some centuries after it was first made in the near east; could a similar thing have happened? Or alternatively I'm probably too set in some kind of linear path to technological development; just because iron was developed one way in other parts of the old world doesn't mean that's the only way it can happen.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:04
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I can see ironworking arising without bronze, since bronze requires access to both tin and copper and tin is relatively hard to find. Bronze almost requires long distance trade unless you're real lucky in your location. Iron is way more abundant than either metal, which was why it replaces bronze when you have the ability to work with it. It's inferior (until you figure out steel), but it's way cheaper and easier to get. I do wonder how you make the leap to understanding metalworking at all though, since it's so much harder to get the heat required to make iron. Maybe if you're using high temperature furnaces for something else? Glassmaking? I dunno.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:14
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Ceramics, maybe? I think stoneware was popular at the right time.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:26
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Grand Fromage posted:I can see ironworking arising without bronze, since bronze requires access to both tin and copper and tin is relatively hard to find. Bronze almost requires long distance trade unless you're real lucky in your location. Iron is way more abundant than either metal, which was why it replaces bronze when you have the ability to work with it. It's inferior (until you figure out steel), but it's way cheaper and easier to get.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:34
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Yeah you'd have to have accidentally realized that there are rocks you can heat up and metal comes out of them before you can do anything else. I bet mercury is a likely one since cinnabar was used all over the place for pigments and other art. Lead bearing minerals aren't uncommon either.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:40
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Grand Fromage posted:Yeah you'd have to have accidentally realized that there are rocks you can heat up and metal comes out of them before you can do anything else. I bet mercury is a likely one since cinnabar was used all over the place for pigments and other art. Lead bearing minerals aren't uncommon either. What about copper nuggets?
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Jun 12, 2020 20:42
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Lawman 0 posted:What about copper nuggets? Is tin naturally shiny? Maybe tin was made for ornaments and the same technology later got applied to bronze working.
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Jun 12, 2020 21:02
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Nessus posted:Copper wouldn't melt at campfire temperatures. It does seem possible that they would encounter some elemental silver or gold just laying around - obviously at this point we've picked most of that clean but in 6500 BC you may well be the first human in a particular area. It could also just be a gradual process rather than a sudden eureka moment. Maybe somebody finds a copper nugget and thinks it looks cool, and hammers it into a neat shape. Then someone else finds out that, while it doesn’t melt, a campfire makes it softer and easier to work. Then a third person experiments with hotter fires until they figure out how to melt it. Early human history is full of weird experimentation like that, we’re naturally curious (especially once alcohol enters the mix).
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Jun 12, 2020 21:32
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I think I remember reading that along the Indus they had kilns that would grab the wind and get super super hot? That's the one that's the wind tunnel from the Himalayas right?
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Jun 12, 2020 21:58
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Fly Molo posted:It could also just be a gradual process rather than a sudden eureka moment. Maybe somebody finds a copper nugget and thinks it looks cool, and hammers it into a neat shape. Then someone else finds out that, while it doesn’t melt, a campfire makes it softer and easier to work. Then a third person experiments with hotter fires until they figure out how to melt it.
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Jun 12, 2020 22:12
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Nessus posted:You're gonna wear out the 2001 tape like that! You’re not my real dad!!
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Jun 12, 2020 22:16
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Not to distract much from metal chat but this seems pretty amazing. I can't wait until more of this tech is used at other sites: http://www.sci-news.com/archaeology/falerii-novi-ground-penetrating-radar-survey-08513.html The lede: quote:The first high-resolution ground-penetrating radar survey of a complete ancient Roman town — Falerii Novi, in Lazio, Italy — has revealed previously unrecorded public buildings, such as a temple, a macellum or market building, a bath complex, and the ancient city’s network of water pipes.
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Jun 12, 2020 22:54
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Nessus posted:. Hematite is, I could see that leading to iron use.
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Jun 13, 2020 03:44
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spoon daddy posted:Not to distract much from metal chat but this seems pretty amazing. I can't wait until more of this tech is used at other sites: http://www.sci-news.com/archaeology/falerii-novi-ground-penetrating-radar-survey-08513.html The lede: Ground-penetrating radar is the coolest thing. There's a plot point in Childhood's End where a human says "No matter how advanced the alien overlords are, they can't see through solid rock." And now we can. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
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Jun 13, 2020 09:11
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