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It's gobsmacking to me that Taibbi thinks politicians' votes are the moral deliberations of individuals, and not bullets aimed by a coalition of interests. Are we certain he hasn't been replaced by a pod person?
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Jun 13, 2020 22:48
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Gripweed posted:Even if it was just meant a s a "hobbyist garden" it was still complete dogshit. the context of it was that it was to teach people how to plant who had never done it before I believe; thus the dogshit quality
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Jun 13, 2020 22:51
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Gripweed posted:Even if it was just meant a s a "hobbyist garden" it was still complete dogshit. have you ever seen a neighborhood garden
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Jun 13, 2020 22:54
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prefect posted:I think it's adorable he believes Susan Collins's vote was ever in doubt. lol exactly if mcconnell didn't have the votes in his pocket kavanaugh's nomination never would've come up Victory Position posted:have you ever seen a neighborhood garden surely washington state has at least one cow college with an ag extension office that can teach them a few things The Muppets On PCP has issued a correction as of 22:58 on Jun 13, 2020 |
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Jun 13, 2020 22:55
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Lady Militant posted:the context of it was that it was to teach people how to plant who had never done it before I believe; thus the dogshit quality like sure and bless their hearts for trying, but it is such a perfect symbol of the organization and direction missing from the chaz. seminars on helping people engage in healthy hobbies like gardening is good but probably won't help keep the chaz alive.
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Jun 13, 2020 22:56
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Lady Militant posted:the context of it was that it was to teach people how to plant who had never done it before I believe; thus the dogshit quality And they were purposefully teaching them wrong, as a joke? Victory Position posted:have you ever seen a neighborhood garden Yes, I have. It has raised beds, and all the dirt is in the raised beds. The plants are evenly spaced. It wasn't a half inch thick layer of top soil dumped in a big circular pile on top of cardboard with a bunch of randomly assorted plants put in haphazardly.
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Jun 13, 2020 22:59
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The Muppets On PCP posted:lol exactly if mcconnell didn't have the votes in his pocket kavanaugh's nomination never would've come up sadly Wazzu's stuck out in the middle of nowhere, aka Pullman
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Jun 13, 2020 23:05
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None of this makes any sense. If it was intended to genuinely be a longterm source of food for the zone, then I can understand why people bristle at it being mocked. It's a well-intentioned action by people who are actually there, trying to work for a better future, so it shouldn't be mocked by people sitting at home on Twitter. I don't agree with that argument, but it's a reasonable argument that reasonable people could make. But if it was a planting seminar, then why didn't they use pots? Why did they teach people how to make a giant mess and plant plants that are guaranteed to die? And has it been cleaned up yet? If it wasn't supposed to be permanent, if it really was just for teaching people how to plant and not intended to be a permanent installation, why did they make such a huge mess that they would just have to clean up? And if it was just a "hobbyist garden", a permanent addition but not intended to proved food for the people of the zone, then why the gently caress would anyone defend it at all? Shouldn't you all not only mock it, but be very angry that a bunch of morons selfishly made a huge mess for their own amusement in what's supposed to an important political moment? Gripweed has issued a correction as of 23:20 on Jun 13, 2020 |
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Jun 13, 2020 23:14
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the answer is that no one else is even trying to make a lovely garden, so some people feel like they have to defend it to fend off nihilism
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Jun 13, 2020 23:18
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Trabisnikof posted:like sure and bless their hearts for trying, but it is such a perfect symbol of the organization and direction missing from the chaz. im not sure anyone in "chaz" has expected that they would be able to exist purely on their own internal resources. Gripweed posted:And they were purposefully teaching them wrong, as a joke? I don't know I'm just some gu- Gripweed posted:None of this makes any sense. lol
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Jun 13, 2020 23:19
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Lady Militant posted:im not sure anyone in "chaz" has expected that they would be able to exist purely on their own internal resources. my point has nothing to do with that. how does teaching hobbyist gardening help chaz? A moral boost, not much more. And yeah good on whoever took initiative to do *anything* but maybe just maybe there was something better to teach then and there.
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Jun 13, 2020 23:26
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Gripweed posted:None of this makes any sense. it's because anarchists have a weird fetish with gardens. during the occupy ICE demonstrations some groups tried to set up gardens in ICE building parking lots. I don't know how this relationship started. the marxist-leninist equivalent would probably be waving the flags of socialist states at every possible opportunity, even if it doesn't really make sense. except flags are cool.
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Jun 13, 2020 23:32
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a general tendency i've noticed is that anarchists tend to like doing things and action, whereas marxists tend to like htinking and talking, for the material conditions are not ripe for the necessary transition to socialism
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Jun 13, 2020 23:37
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Finicums Wake posted:a general tendency i've noticed is that anarchists tend to like doing things and action, whereas marxists tend to like htinking and talking, for the material conditions are not ripe for the necessary transition to socialism marxists who took action tended to end up very dead very quickly. answering why the same did not happen to the anarchists is left as an exercise for the reader
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Jun 13, 2020 23:42
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Atrocious Joe posted:it's because anarchists have a weird fetish with gardens. during the occupy ICE demonstrations some groups tried to set up gardens in ICE building parking lots. I don't know how this relationship started. If they like gardens so much shouldn't they be better at it?
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Jun 13, 2020 23:53
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You have to be careful about growing food in cities. A lot of the land is chock-full of heavy metals, and not the good kind. 
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Jun 14, 2020 00:00
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Finicums Wake posted:a general tendency i've noticed is that anarchists tend to like doing things and action, whereas marxists tend to like htinking and talking, for the material conditions are not ripe for the necessary transition to socialism doing a stupid thing can be worse than doing nothing. for example: your posts
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Jun 14, 2020 00:04
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Gripweed posted:Yes, I have. It has raised beds, and all the dirt is in the raised beds. The plants are evenly spaced. It wasn't a half inch thick layer of top soil dumped in a big circular pile on top of cardboard with a bunch of randomly assorted plants put in haphazardly. oh good god, that is terrible was zero effort made to teach anything at all? you know, things like "plants like to grow, so they need more than a half-inch of topsoil to do anything more than germinate for the camera?" Victory Position has issued a correction as of 00:07 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 00:04
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excited to talk exclusively about a dumb looking garden for the next 10000 years
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Jun 14, 2020 00:06
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Zokari posted:excited to talk exclusively about a dumb looking garden for the next 10000 years Uriel was a cop.
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Jun 14, 2020 00:07
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Atrocious Joe posted:it's because anarchists have a weird fetish with gardens. during the occupy ICE demonstrations some groups tried to set up gardens in ICE building parking lots. I don't know how this relationship started. gardens are also cool  however that garden looks like dogshit
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Jun 14, 2020 00:11
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Atrocious Joe posted:it's because anarchists have a weird fetish with gardens. during the occupy ICE demonstrations some groups tried to set up gardens in ICE building parking lots. I don't know how this relationship started. Nah, that tendency was co-opted a long time ago; it's a hipster lib thing now, called "guerrilla gardening".
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Jun 14, 2020 00:29
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they should all be building shields and training with baseball bats and molotovs if they want chaz to last
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Jun 14, 2020 00:29
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Zokari posted:excited to talk exclusively about a dumb looking garden for the next 10000 years the garden is an FBI/cop op to distract the masses and media from material dialectism and focus all takes into neutralizing the hashtag resistance
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Jun 14, 2020 00:40
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fred hampton got murdered in his sleep. the anarchist merely finds himself suspended for 6 hours, 4 should he correctly identify all the traffic lights in the grid.
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Jun 14, 2020 00:56
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why are people so psyched out about the chaz? it probably won't even be there in a week or two, right?
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Jun 14, 2020 01:06
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grieving for Gandalf posted:why are people so psyched out about the chaz? it probably won't even be there in a week or two, right? mostly 'cause something (read: anything) happened after a week of facing off against the police line and getting gassed repeatedly basically, the dog caught the car and didn't know what to do with it Oneiros has issued a correction as of 01:15 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 01:12
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grieving for Gandalf posted:why are people so psyched out about the chaz? it probably won't even be there in a week or two, right?
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Jun 14, 2020 01:12
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quote:I’m aware of this tweet suggesting the reasons for Shor’s firing are unknown. I stand by the characterization made in the piece. 
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Jun 14, 2020 01:21
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Oneiros posted:mostly 'cause something (read: anything) happened after a week of facing off against the police line and getting gassed repeatedly oh, so it's like this is what they won and what was the point?
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Jun 14, 2020 01:24
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grieving for Gandalf posted:why are people so psyched out about the chaz? it probably won't even be there in a week or two, right? i mostly just think it's funny, and hey, why not let people have their jubilation. matt is kinda rambling blackpilled af but i don't think he's wrong about an intense sense of fragility in the air that doesn't do anyone any favors because it comes off palpable as if people don't even believe in it themselves, which is wrong because they should. this poo poo is all just toddler crawling warm up until bernie bux ends and everyone is evicted in august and 10+ million go hungry and start skipping meals.
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Jun 14, 2020 01:28
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the autonomous zone exists because it's allowed to for whatever reason. everyone, literally everyone, knows this. what use it has to whom in this context is subject to interpretation, but imo it's better for Our Side of the argument that it exist and function for as long as possible. even if it's cringe it's a teachable and teaching moment for a bunch of activists who suddenly have to be administrators
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Jun 14, 2020 01:39
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Xaris posted:police sort of just abandoned (and shred lots of documents) on the way out and just got taken over as an abandoned facility 24 hrs later. if they really wanted to they could have just not done that so i think it'll probably be there in a week or two because it's easier to manage. media likes it because they can focus attention and distract/ignore from everything else going on. for some, people can feel like it means it something Meaningful that they're holding onto an abandoned facility and haven't been kicked out yet as a success story. what are bernie bux
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Jun 14, 2020 01:45
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the darkest take: its left wing malhuer national wildlife refuge
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Jun 14, 2020 01:47
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grieving for Gandalf posted:what are bernie bux the extra $600/week that people currently on unemployment are receiving that makes unemployment actually livable it expires at the end of july
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Jun 14, 2020 02:04
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Atrocious Joe posted:it's because anarchists have a weird fetish with gardens. during the occupy ICE demonstrations some groups tried to set up gardens in ICE building parking lots. I don't know how this relationship started. tbqf, in my experience, this seems to be a very uniquely American left thing Cuba saved itself single-handedly by everyone agreeing into doing urban gardening and agriculture after the USSR kicked the bucket, and African as well Latin American socialist militancy are also quite Very loving Serious about it too, emphasizing teaching to work the land to a very high degree, particularly to help poor farmers make their plots viable with their limited resources So it is dumb because of food availability/security there? dunno if reds in Europe feel the same way too
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Jun 14, 2020 02:09
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grieving for Gandalf posted:why are people so psyched out about the chaz? it probably won't even be there in a week or two, right? the media has found hte one noticable group of cringe anarchists in the middle of a movement thats otherwise made up of normies and theyre using it as a cudgel
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Jun 14, 2020 02:36
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dead gay comedy forums posted:tbqf, in my experience, this seems to be a very uniquely American left thing yeah I'm mostly describing US protests. Setting up a small ceremonial garden plot in the middle of summer is different from a serious attempt at food sovereignty. Even within the US, there is a movement for local food production by oppressed communities, which I think shows promise despite being heavily captured by neoliberal institutions and NGOs. This movement as far as I can tell is largely disconnected from radical politics of any sort. It has been forced to confront the difficulties inherent in urban agriculture like contaminated soil that these protest gardens seem to sort of gloss over. Socialist Latin American and African states like Cuba and Venezuela are struggling to establish food sovereignty due to the legacies of colonialism and current systems of imperialism. The need to grow food is very important, since the very survival of the revolution and even country depends on it. The West, and US specifically, dominates and distorts food production globally in way that prevents the development of other states. These states are struggling with a scarcity of nutritious food, and new techniques or local agricultural production is a way to overcome that scarcity. I think overall, the difficulties with regards to food facing workers and oppressed people in the US is very different. There is adequate food for everyone, but capitalist relations restrict who has access to that food. Engaging in local agriculture may be a way to overcome the lack of food, but this will only ever be a temporary solution. I can imagine a situation where leftists organize a local urban community agriculture program using vacant land, and help supply fresh food to a poor urban neighborhood. This goes well for a few years, but then investors start buying up buildings because this program made the area a more attractive target for gentrification. I don't want to imply this project is worthless, just that the movement in the US faces different challenges than in states where socialist groups are in power. Frankly, the area where the left should focus wrt food supplies in the US is migrant workers on farms and the often immigrant worker-forces involved in meat production and packaging. yeah this is a lot about food for the podcast thread, and i did not bring up grilling once.
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Jun 14, 2020 02:56
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Atrocious Joe posted:yeah this is a lot about food for the podcast thread, and i did not bring up grilling once. this is a great reply. Can I put it on the socialist education thread?
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Jun 14, 2020 02:58
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grieving for Gandalf posted:why are people so psyched out about the chaz? it probably won't even be there in a week or two, right? it's a media spectacle: anti-left propaganda for conservatives, a quirky curiosity for liberals, and leftists are divided between embarrassment, critical support, and unrealistic hope. our beautiful wet president has already threatened to invade Seattle over it so everyone feels they have to weigh in
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Jun 14, 2020 03:03
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