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Djarum posted:
idk. i think he will do another one in another red state in a week from now or so. being an embarrassing moron has never stopped him before.
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Jun 21, 2020 04:49
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Dapper_Swindler posted:idk. i think he will do another one in another red state in a week from now or so. being an embarrassing moron has never stopped him before. They made such a big deal about this and projected so much where it is a massive failure I can see everyone involved not wanting to take that chance any time soon. Tulsa is about as good of a venue for Trump as they were going to get. There is are several big reasons why it was chosen. Everyone involved having a ton of egg in their face coming out of this means they aren’t doing anything until they can produce exactly what they want which would be the convention. Also with whatever is about to bubble up with Barr next week I assume they are going to try and keep Trump away from open mics for a bit. My gut tells me that Barr is going to have to fall on his sword shortly which will mean that Donnie needs to keep quiet for a bit.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:00
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Djarum posted:They made such a big deal about this and projected so much where it is a massive failure I can see everyone involved not wanting to take that chance any time soon. Tulsa is about as good of a venue for Trump as they were going to get. There is are several big reasons why it was chosen. yeah. i think my point is anyone smart enough to realize what a gently caress up this was is long loving gone or is too much of naked lickspitle fuckhead to say so outloud. we will see i guess. trump also said a bunch of dumb awful poo poo too so it wont help him any either. the "we should slow down testing lol" poo poo is getting alot of play as is his defense of the confederacy and weird ramp ramblings. he is super desperate to try to pull a 68 but as has been said, he is too loving dumb to realize what won it for nixon.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:03
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Dapper_Swindler posted:idk. i think he will do another one in another red state in a week from now or so. being an embarrassing moron has never stopped him before. He's absolutely going to keep doing them. The adulation of a crowd is his true addiction and there's nothing that anyone will be able to do to stop him. Even if he were only drawing crowds of 10 he'd keep on going so long as they were cheering him and pumping up his ego. The rallies themselves have never made an actual difference. 2016 was a matter of his opponent running the dumbest campaign while he grifted on, floating on managing to both say all the quiet parts out loud while also somehow being seen as a blank slate who was too clownish to manage to actually gently caress things up. This time he's got the worst of all worlds where the majority just wants him to shut the gently caress up and everyone is worried that he'll really gently caress things up at any moment. At the same time instead of running against his party's ideological boogieman, he's running against an avatar of Generic Democrat who is letting everyone project whatever they want onto him while also steadfastly letting them believe in an option where they don't have to hear about politics for 4 years. Trump has become the unholy amalgamation of Hillary 2016/W 2008, and he can't understand that anything has changed since last cycle.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:04
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Gyges posted:He's absolutely going to keep doing them. The adulation of a crowd is his true addiction and there's nothing that anyone will be able to do to stop him. Even if he were only drawing crowds of 10 he'd keep on going so long as they were cheering him and pumping up his ego. true. its also as boring and moderate as biden is, he is pretty liked by alot of people in this country for a variety of reasons, partly because he is just a boring but well meaning old dem who will put fires out. people obviously want some kind of progress on various issues and i assume they think biden can deliever enough while being a safe winning candidate who wont start new fires. like others have said in this thread. if trump were smart or a actual populist, biden would have alot rougher time. but trumps trump and all the smart ghouls have fled.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:08
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Dapper_Swindler posted:true. its also as boring and moderate as biden is, he is pretty liked by alot of people in this country for a variety of reasons, partly because he is just a boring but well meaning old dem who will put fires out. people obviously want some kind of progress on various issues and i assume they think biden can deliever enough while being a safe winning candidate who wont start new fires. like others have said in this thread. if trump were smart or a actual populist, biden would have alot rougher time. but trumps trump and all the smart ghouls have fled. I've often said that if he had actually listened to Bannon then the dems would be dead meat for 50 years.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:13
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Pick posted:I've often said that if he had actually listened to Bannon then the dems would be dead meat for 50 years. I doubt they would be dead for 50 years but if he had actual strategists and any sort of discipline he would be a much, much harder opponent. He is next to impossible to follow or take seriously as someone who isn't a true believer. Like whatever tonight was if I were apart of that team I would be drinking heavily and trying to find an exit. You see better campaigning from people running for the school board in their podunk town than this.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:23
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Pick posted:I've often said that if he had actually listened to Bannon then the dems would be dead meat for 50 years. probably. the thing is the GOP is way to objectvist and weird to even consider strasserite type politics. they arnt the European right which toys with that poo poo at times.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:24
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Djarum posted:I doubt they would be dead for 50 years but if he had actual strategists and any sort of discipline he would be a much, much harder opponent. He is next to impossible to follow or take seriously as someone who isn't a true believer. Like whatever tonight was if I were apart of that team I would be drinking heavily and trying to find an exit. You see better campaigning from people running for the school board in their podunk town than this. the smart ones already know this and are hoping that they themselves survive. i keep hearing the internals are loving horrible for the GOP but the people in charge are as dumb as the morons on the ground so they keep thinking the base is the silent majority and or they will take california. they fell into the same trap we did in 2016.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:26
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Pick posted:I've often said that if he had actually listened to Bannon then the dems would be dead meat for 50 years. If he'd actually listened to Bannon he'd be in better electoral shape, but he'd also almost certainly be facing an actual opponent instead of a picture in a basement. Though a whole lot of his trouble right now has little if anything to do with stuff Bannon would have done differently. Even if Bannon were puppetting Trump for the last 3 years, we'd still have a disasterous response to Covid which tanks the economy and the streets would still be flooded with protestors. It remains weird as all gently caress that in a modern campaign, the winning strategy actually does appear to be running an old school 19th century campaign where the candidate stays home and pretends they aren't actually running for president.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:27
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Gyges posted:If he'd actually listened to Bannon he'd be in better electoral shape, but he'd also almost certainly be facing an actual opponent instead of a picture in a basement. Though a whole lot of his trouble right now has little if anything to do with stuff Bannon would have done differently. Even if Bannon were puppetting Trump for the last 3 years, we'd still have a disasterous response to Covid which tanks the economy and the streets would still be flooded with protestors. i mean thats how Harding won by a landslide in 1920.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:28
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Dapper_Swindler posted:true. its also as boring and moderate as biden is, he is pretty liked by alot of people in this country for a variety of reasons, partly because he is just a boring but well meaning old dem who will put fires out. people obviously want some kind of progress on various issues and i assume they think biden can deliever enough while being a safe winning candidate who wont start new fires. like others have said in this thread. if trump were smart or a actual populist, biden would have alot rougher time. but trumps trump and all the smart ghouls have fled. It shouldn't be under-estimated just how much people want politics to be boring again. There are so many people who think, why the gently caress do I know who the energy secretary is? Why has Trump fired so many people? Why is politics in the news all the drat time?. I expect a large number of people will vote for Biden equally as much as they will vote for someone to hire a cabinet that will actually make sure the Government can run efficiently (as possible within the current system).
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Jun 21, 2020 05:28
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Dapper_Swindler posted:the smart ones already know this and are hoping that they themselves survive. i keep hearing the internals are loving horrible for the GOP but the people in charge are as dumb as the morons on the ground so they keep thinking the base is the silent majority and or they will take california. they fell into the same trap we did in 2016. The grift has been going on so long that now the party is being run by those who were raised in the grift. Those who know it's just a grift are diminishing, and are losing their ability to lead the herd instead of following along. Luckily their opponents are the Democratic Party, whose leadership are largely still broken from the 70s/80s and are desperately still trying to find the mystic third way.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:32
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CelestialScribe posted:It shouldn't be under-estimated just how much people want politics to be boring again. There are so many people who think, why the gently caress do I know who the energy secretary is? Why has Trump fired so many people? Why is politics in the news all the drat time?. I expect a large number of people will vote for Biden equally as much as they will vote for someone to hire a cabinet that will actually make sure the Government can run efficiently (as possible within the current system). this. look i love/"love" politics but i too want it to be boring again. i still think people want their to be actual progressive change, they just don't want insane controversy every day and they want the normal day to day relations in the country.
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Jun 21, 2020 05:47
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CelestialScribe posted:It shouldn't be under-estimated just how much people want politics to be boring again. There are so many people who think, why the gently caress do I know who the energy secretary is? Why has Trump fired so many people? Why is politics in the news all the drat time?. I expect a large number of people will vote for Biden equally as much as they will vote for someone to hire a cabinet that will actually make sure the Government can run efficiently (as possible within the current system). This is every single human being I interact with at work, corporate side and personal side.
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Jun 21, 2020 06:02
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Gyges posted:The grift has been going on so long that now the party is being run by those who were raised in the grift. Those who know it's just a grift are diminishing, and are losing their ability to lead the herd instead of following along. Luckily their opponents are the Democratic Party, whose leadership are largely still broken from the 70s/80s and are desperately still trying to find the mystic third way. Well I do wonder what will happen to the GOP especially if they fail as spectacularly as it is looking to be. Will they splinter with the Trump/Neo-Fash wing going one way and a new GOP forming? I have been saying for awhile that if you went back to old conservative views; small government, states rights, fiscal responsibility, privacy and cut all the weird religious, racism and culture war stuff out they would likely do a lot better in the future and wouldn't have to defend such awful positions all the time. The Democrats are increasingly looking to get a lot more progressive. Their safest seats are getting primaried from the left which is causing many of the most powerful Neo-libs to lose their seats. The Engel race in New York for example is going to be a big tell on if the old guard is really in trouble or that AOC for example is a fluke. Personally I know I would and a lot of people in the country would like to get back to our politics being we need to build a road and debating on how best to build it and how to pay for it instead of one side saying we need to build a road and the other denying roads exist.
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Jun 21, 2020 06:02
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I think what the aftermath of this rally truly highlights is how the state of the election has fundamentally changed since 2016, and how Trump has completely failed to grasp that. Back then, his rallies were still utterly abhorrent and nonsensical, but they were carried by news networks uncritically and all his worst statements were about things he would do as President—build the wall, deport everyone, ban muslims, nuke ISIS, etc. But because they were aspirational statements, and Trump didn't have a record, it was much easier for his supporters and defenders to disseminate and justify them into "Oh, what he really meant was..." or "He talks tough, and that's what we need because..." while all the while, Clinton was constantly on the defensive for past scandals because she had a record and was the presumed heir apparent, making her easier to attack and her positions harder to defend. This time around, Trump isn't the challenger who can promise anything and everything. He now has his own record, one that is extremely hard to defend, and relatively few positive achievements. So what's going to get covered at his rallies isn't just poo poo like "build the wall," but things like "There would be fewer COVID cases if we tested less," which is an insane thing for a President to say during a pandemic, very easy for the media to jump on. and is of course completely indefensible outside of the extremely weak "it was a joke." It doesn't help either that Biden isn't Clinton, and 2020 isn't 2016. Oh, sure, a lot of the policies are the same, they're both lifelong establishment democrats, but Biden as a challenger simply isn't as threatening or frightening to undecided and/or moderate voters. Clinton you'd see people getting into a frothing rage over, even among those who didn't like Trump. Biden?  But Trump (And probably a decent part of his team) don't understand that. They know how they won in 2016, and are trying to repeat the same playbook in a fundamentally different election. So they'll keep holding rallies, even though they've long since hit the barrier of diminishing returns, and his speeches now hurt him in the media far more than they help. Trump will keep attacking Congress and the Supreme Court, even though the Republicans control the Senate and the Supreme Court seats two of his nominees. He'll keep insisting nothing is his fault and only he can fix things as the country continues to collapse around him, and it'll be less and less convincing each time. And he'll refuse to make any pivots or any concessions, because that's how he won in 2016, even though being President is all about pivoting and making concessions to Get Things Done, and it's the Things You God Done that win you reelection. Not gonna say his defeat is inevitable of course, because we're still four and a half months out and anything can happen. But in my mind, it's highly unlikely Trump can be convinced to change direction until it's far too late, and the direction he's heading in will only continue to push away more and more persuadable voters in the days, weeks, and months to come.
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Jun 21, 2020 06:18
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Djarum posted:The rally tonight was an epic failure. I will be surprised if they choose to do another anytime before the convention. The optics both from the Media and from people coming out of the event were bad. They can’t risk him going out in public again without a full house. So they will keep him in DC until the convention and have him rant and rave in front of the packed RNC. From what I heard, the decision behind the rally was less that his strategists thought it would be a good idea, and more that he was demanding it and was being impossible to deal with. So they figured they'd hold the rally, cheer him up, and get him off their backs. There are also stories that part of the reason the Trump people thought that the rally would be a bigger deal than it was (and why Pascale tweeted the high number of tickets ordered) was because a former Buttigieg staffer used Tik Tok to inspire people to sign up and order tickets to artificially inflate the numbers, and a bunch of teenagers and k-pop fans took her up on it and organized a campaign to do that. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/politics/tiktok-trump-tulsa-rally-trnd/index.html Epicurius fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jun 21, 2020 |
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Jun 21, 2020 06:24
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Djarum posted:The Democrats are increasingly looking to get a lot more progressive. Their safest seats are getting primaried from the left which is causing many of the most powerful Neo-libs to lose their seats. Looking at the Dem senate candidates for likely pickups, I'm seeing a lot more Schumer than Sanders. We've seen some promising looking primaries on the House side, but it won't be enough to counterbalance the pickups of either 18 or (hopefully) 20.
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Jun 21, 2020 06:26
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Paracaidas posted:This is rarely how it works, with 2018 as a prime example. AOC, Tlaib, and Pressley are great additions to the caucus, but the growth was largely from purple-to-red districts. The caucus grew with members who largely fell towards the right side of the party--- more Tim Ryan than Nancy Pelosi(to say nothing of Barbara Lee). Barring big political realignments, that's almost always the way that growth in the caucus works. If you're flipping a seat where the incumbent is of the other party, that means that you're winning over the votes of people who were fine with voting for a candidate of the other party. The progressive pickups in 2018 were progressives winning primaries in already safe Democratic seats.
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Jun 21, 2020 06:35
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Epicurius posted:From what I heard, the decision behind the rally was less that his strategists thought it would be a good idea, and more that he was demanding it and was being impossible to deal with. So they figured they'd hold the rally, cheer him up, and get him off their backs. I had heard the same things prior to this. But Trump also was convinced that this would be a massive success and it wasn't. This wasn't even as big as some of his rallies prior to COVID. That means that not only is much of his platform not working even in the most favorable of places, that he is struggling to get people to show up to his events despite it being incredibly well promoted everywhere in the world nearly. And the ordering tickets to not go was a thing that locals were doing in Oklahoma prior to whatever Buttigieg staffer decided to TikTok about it. Epicurius posted:Barring big political realignments, that's almost always the way that growth in the caucus works. If you're flipping a seat where the incumbent is of the other party, that means that you're winning over the votes of people who were fine with voting for a candidate of the other party. The progressive pickups in 2018 were progressives winning primaries in already safe Democratic seats. Exactly. To produce change and to move the party to be more progressive it is going to be have to be that you get smart, young progressives to take the safe Democratic seats. A big reason why you see so many Neo-libs and establishment Dems freaking out about Engel for example is that they know what it means for them. Another win like this means that you can see a lot more if not all of these safe seats challenged by progressives and put many of them on their heels. It is the same thing that is happening with the Senate Primary in Kentucky where Booker is giving the establishment pick of McGrath a huge battle despite having much less money than her. The youth are a lot more progressive and demanding more radical change from the Democratic Party and the country in general. Most people 35 and under are inherently much more politically involved and aware than previous generations, mostly from growing up in a post 9-11 world where everything inherently became much more tangently political. It will be hard to ignore them as they gain in influence.
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Jun 21, 2020 06:52
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Djarum posted:I had heard the same things prior to this. But Trump also was convinced that this would be a massive success and it wasn't. This wasn't even as big as some of his rallies prior to COVID. That means that not only is much of his platform not working even in the most favorable of places, that he is struggling to get people to show up to his events despite it being incredibly well promoted everywhere in the world nearly. I mean, this is why you don't hold a rally in the middle of a pandemic in a city that still doesn't have spread under control. Polls from before the rally showed that a majority of Americans and even a majority of Republicans thought the rally was a bad idea. And I'm thinking that even a lot of people who love Trump and normally would have wanted to go to a rally didn't want to risk coming down with COVID quote:And the ordering tickets to not go was a thing that locals were doing in Oklahoma prior to whatever Buttigieg staffer decided to TikTok about it. Oh, sure. She didn't come up with it. She just increased its visibility
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Jun 21, 2020 06:58
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Epicurius posted:I mean, this is why you don't hold a rally in the middle of a pandemic in a city that still doesn't have spread under control. Polls from before the rally showed that a majority of Americans and even a majority of Republicans thought the rally was a bad idea. And I'm thinking that even a lot of people who love Trump and normally would have wanted to go to a rally didn't want to risk coming down with COVID That much is obvious to those living in reality in the real world. You have to remember that the Trump camp does not live anywhere near reality. I am sure everyone involved thought this was going to be a massive success, they would have a sell out or near sell out of the venue with some overflow outside to have Trump come out and give some remarks like a rock star and put it on an ad. This was a very, very rude awakening. Now we know that Trump isn't going to think that his message is wrong or the polls are right. He is going to blame the campaign and imaginary forces for ruining his big day. Those in the campaign are going to try and avoid a repeat of this any time soon even if Trump throws more tantrums.
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Jun 21, 2020 07:14
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Wow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niCxnEyG0SM&t=4275s Dude is losing it on stage about father's day and how tough kids are and poo poo after some dumb religious liberties nonsense... how is this real.
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Jun 21, 2020 07:14
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Dapper_Swindler posted:probably. the thing is the GOP is way to objectvist and weird to even consider strasserite type politics. they arnt the European right which toys with that poo poo at times. And most likely it would have ended the same way the original strasserites ended, with them outliving their usefulness to the guys at the top and the more corporatist side taking their place
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Jun 21, 2020 07:17
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We're just learning how you can't hyperextend expectations based on any race Hillary Clinton is in.
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Jun 21, 2020 07:20
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Djarum posted:Well I do wonder what will happen to the GOP especially if they fail as spectacularly as it is looking to be. Will they splinter with the Trump/Neo-Fash wing going one way and a new GOP forming? I have been saying for awhile that if you went back to old conservative views; small government, states rights, fiscal responsibility, privacy and cut all the weird religious, racism and culture war stuff out they would likely do a lot better in the future and wouldn't have to defend such awful positions all the time. The problem for both the GOP and the Democrats is that the demographics and perception of the Republicans are locking them into being the party of old white rear end in a top hat principles. Since we're a two party system, this conversely locks the Democrats into being the anti-Republican party. We aren't going to get any real change in the two parties until we get a realignment going. Said realignment looks to be in the works, but it is still waiting for a real catalyst unless we end up waiting for the demographic death of the current Republicans. So in the near term, a catastrophic loss in November will just result in rearranging the deck chairs of the GOP. They'll remain a mix of libertarian, dominionist, nationalist, neo-fash, rich people political goals. Each new election will simply determine which particular blend of those things we end up with as the emphasis. Maybe we go a little more theocratic next time, maybe a Stephen Miller type rises ascendant, or perhaps we get some Josh Hawley faux populist. No matter what, they'll still represent the same goals the only difference will be the packaging and the particular emphasis. Like how in practice we're getting most of the same bullshit we got under W with Trump, but now we're actively anti-immigrant instead of trying to pander to the Latino vote. We aren't very likely to regress to some older form of "reasonable" Republican, we're pretty much stuck with one completely batshit party until we get a realignment. Democrats are in a different boat, since they're largely a coalition of different ideological factions bound together by their goals being adverse to the Republicans. They do currently look to be pushing a little more to the left, but that could quickly change in 2022/24. Not because the youth aren't more left than everyone else, but because different political pressures could push some of the other groups ideology. We're likely to see the Democrats generally pushing further left, but we're still a far cry from out of the means testing, overly defensive "patriotism" woods.
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Jun 21, 2020 07:29
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Gyges posted:The problem for both the GOP and the Democrats is that the demographics and perception of the Republicans are locking them into being the party of old white rear end in a top hat principles. Since we're a two party system, this conversely locks the Democrats into being the anti-Republican party. We aren't going to get any real change in the two parties until we get a realignment going. Said realignment looks to be in the works, but it is still waiting for a real catalyst unless we end up waiting for the demographic death of the current Republicans. Well it all depends on how things shake out in November and especially in the GOP who grabs the reins of power. It is very possible that many of the leaders in the party may be gone come January. If that happens I can completely see a war brewing between a for example Colton led faux Trump faction and a more reasonable faction of more traditional Republicans. It will be interesting in seeing how that will play out, as I would assume most of the money would go to the last radical group but who knows anymore. I do think that whatever realignment may come it will be the two parties breaking up and a push to do away with the two party system. I don't think we will see it within the next 10 years but I think as more Gen Xers and Millennials enter politics I think there will be more of an open mind of changing our way of government more, as people in their mid 40s now and younger were not taught like older generations that the Constitution is a thing that is sacred and perfect. I have had many a conversation with a lot of younger people involved in politics discussing this same thing and the the openmindedness of challenging what the Founding Fathers invented and wrote is something that I have never gotten from older people, so it is a generational thing. Alas, it is impossible to predict the future, it is 2020 we very well might not make it to the election let alone the end of the year.
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Jun 21, 2020 08:53
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Everything about that rally just felt antiquated. It was a Greatest Hits album for all the gawking chimps...the attacks on the Clintons and CNN got more applause than any attack on Biden. I try and not assume too much after being shocked by his win in 2016, but it seems completely miscalculated to assume amidst a widespread recession, a pandemic that has killed 120,000 Americans, massive protests and civil unrest, that they can just scream MAGA and ramble about ramps for an hour. At least, I find I find it hard to imagine who is going to be convinced by any of this that wasn't already convinced and indoctrinated 5 years ago.
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Jun 21, 2020 11:21
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I wouldn't jump the gun at this point about Biden's victory. I feel we may be getting a deceptively easy early campaign for Biden, and nothing will sink him faster then complacency.
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Jun 21, 2020 15:20
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Every race is different. And the outcome is always reactive, I don't think especially proactive. Biden pretty openly mourned the death of his son and it did also seem to cost him his last shot, but if he had run a campaign like this at that time, it would've been borderline comical. Reading the room in 2020, meanwhile, it makes a good amount of sense.
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Jun 21, 2020 15:35
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StratGoatCom posted:I wouldn't jump the gun at this point about Biden's victory. Biden is absolutely benefiting hugely from factors outside his control. But though it's possible the protests may fade from the news cycle before November, COVID and the accompanying economic disaster absolutely will not, and it's Trump's response to that which is really killing his chances. I just don't see a pivot ever coming, and I also don't see Biden making a big enough error to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. All he has to do is keep quiet except for the occasional platitude and not pick a Republican as VP.
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Jun 21, 2020 17:07
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I think we all have PTSD from 2016, but its also very fair to say that being 10 points down and repeatedly doubling down on your worst impulses - which have led you to being 10 points down - and crowing on national TV about how you CAN drink water (an accusation literally only mentioned in one specific ad played on one local TV market) is uh, not promising.
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Jun 21, 2020 17:14
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Breitbart pollster https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1274522208711462913 Hillary won Minnesota by 1.5%
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Jun 21, 2020 17:58
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Bear in mind gravis' reputation is for inaccuracy as much as it is for bias- and 538's eval is it's a slight D bias.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:11
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Chinese Gordon posted:Biden is absolutely benefiting hugely from factors outside his control. But though it's possible the protests may fade from the news cycle before November, COVID and the accompanying economic disaster absolutely will not, and it's Trump's response to that which is really killing his chances. I just don't see a pivot ever coming, and I also don't see Biden making a big enough error to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. All he has to do is keep quiet except for the occasional platitude and not pick a Republican as VP. trump will never pivot and will probably create new controversy and poo poo. protests will probably last through out the summer though it will vary in size.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:18
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Chinese Gordon posted:Biden is absolutely benefiting hugely from factors outside his control. But though it's possible the protests may fade from the news cycle before November, COVID and the accompanying economic disaster absolutely will not, and it's Trump's response to that which is really killing his chances. I just don't see a pivot ever coming, and I also don't see Biden making a big enough error to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. All he has to do is keep quiet except for the occasional platitude and not pick a Republican as VP. I read a story about how the Trump campaign is actually getting super frustrated about Biden's low visibility - and all the jabs about not doing events and "hiding" is so he can come out in the open and make a "deplorable" kind of gaffe they can run with the entire campaign. That being said the "You ain't black" and "10-15% of Americans are bad people" quips didn't stick at all despite the Trump campaign's attempts to make them a thing. It's just really hard to see how a minor verbal gaffe can actually matter in the news and have staying power during these times and when it's not Hillary Clinton. Another thing they keep on saying now is that Trump will destroy Biden in a debate. There is utter confidence that when they got on a debate stage Biden will waste away and dissolve into bones or something because of Trump's FACTS and LOGIC. It's a bold strategy to rely on your opponent being old and confused when your candidate has late stage dementia, and IIRC from 2016 the general sense was Hillary won all three debates (not that it mattered in the long run).
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Jun 21, 2020 18:33
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NBC has put up supercuts of Biden's primary debate performances in 2020. Here's a couple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B7NuO3-sPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM9DKxrQrvI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC-eqMXl7uY No one would deny he's slowing down relative to 2008, but none of the performances above would sink him if repeated. They're not stellar but they're fine.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:37
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DutchDupe posted:That being said the "You ain't black" and "10-15% of Americans are bad people" quips didn't stick at all despite the Trump campaign's attempts to make them a thing. It's just really hard to see how a minor verbal gaffe can actually matter in the news and have staying power during these times and when it's not Hillary Clinton. Also I don't think these stuck well because despite being phrased in ways that aren't  , I don't think very many people actually disagreed with the rationale. Since this is the "state of the race" thread, let's remember the is/ought divide here. Whether people should disagree isn't the point: most people basically accept that Biden would be better for black Americans, and can easily accept that 10-15% of people are loving assholes.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:44
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Biden is definitely slower and more frail than he was, but he is still capable of completing coherent sentences and mostly sticking to the script, which means he automatically wins any debate vs Trump. The only people who think Biden will 'lose' the debates are turbo-chuds and accelerationists desperately insisting that there's no chance he can be elected. All he has to do is stand there as Trump rambles and respond with "c'mon, man" or similar.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:47
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