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don't know if Cotton's gonna be the big winner in four years but we're not really in an aw shucks era anymore
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Jun 22, 2020 20:16
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:don't know if Cotton's gonna be the big winner in four years but we're not really in an aw shucks era anymore I'm just saying for mass appeal purposes there's a South that's all smiles, bbq, good times country songs, and genial tough guys in pickups with trucker hats. And there's a South that's leering at you with a wall eyed incest face between the misshapen boards of a mountain shack's door.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:23
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Cerebral Bore posted:"competent fascist" doesn't refer to someone who is somehow actually good at running a fascist state but someone who is capable of seizing power and willing to actually try to topple the existing order in favor of outright fascism Any competent fascist leader must try to resolve somehow the suicidal tendencies of fascism itself, if they want their rule to endure. You have to sit at the head of a movement that will always make for itself new enemies, both real and imaginary, and prevent it from eating itself and becoming one of those enemies. It's possible, at least for a while, but it's tough: try to moderate things a bit and you risk losing popular support, probably to someone else, and then you're dead. You're better off playing factions against each other whilst keeping yourself and your (believed to be, by you) loyal inner circle above it all, and relying on spies and secret police to suss out and murder factional leaders who could eventually pose a threat. In theory you could do this forever, but in practice you end up killing a lot of competent people and that has a cost, too, that eventually you'll have to pay. You can also try to turn all that energy outward instead, which used to work really well before the advent of nuclear weapons. It still works as long as you restrict yourself to those nations that have neither nuclear weapons nor strong alliances with nuclear states, but that doesn't work as well as total war. This all puts the competent fascist at a disadvantage against the popular leader who is more than willing to ride the thing out either because he's going to be dead soon anyway, or he's too stupid to recognize the danger in the first place, or as in the case of Trump, both of these things. Also the competent fascist will probably try to avoid nuclear war, while the popular leader might think nuclear war sounds awesome - certainly a lot of his base thinks this way. Point being, the so-called competent fascist will perhaps not look so competent in the end, as they try to resolve all the contradictions of fascism and probably fail. At which point we'll all breathe a sigh of relief because we yet again avoided a "competent fascist." I don't know, it all reeks of Great Man Theory to be honest. I think that's my beef and I probably should have just started there. Instead of worrying about who is or who isn't going to lead the movement, look instead at who are the ordinary people invested in it, what they want, how they think it should be achieved, and the threat all of that poses to the rest of us.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:29
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buddy, fascism isn't a revolutionary ideology, it's an evolution of bourgeois capitalism into a ultranationalist death cult hence it ultimately can't survive since it labors under the same contradictions as regular capitalism and the only tool it has to solve it is violence, but can only gently caress things up for everyone
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Jun 22, 2020 20:34
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Cerebral Bore posted:buddy, fascism isn't a revolutionary ideology, it's an evolution of bourgeois capitalism into a ultranationalist death cult yeah nobody means "a fascist who will actually deliver on all the promises the Nazi Party made" when they say competent fascist, come the gently caress on A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 20:45 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 20:40
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Cerebral Bore posted:buddy, fascism isn't a revolutionary ideology, it's an evolution of bourgeois capitalism into a ultranationalist death cult A Wizard of Goatse posted:yeah nobody means "a fascist who will actually deliver on all the promises the Nazi Party made" when they say competent fascist, come the gently caress on
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Jun 22, 2020 20:45
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it is a fascist who can effectively seize and wield the levers of power to their most destructive extent, e.g. a Trump who fully leveraged the Executive branch's war-on-terror powers to target dissidents and their families for extermination, one who maintained a good working relationship with America's vast and all-pervasive secret police apparatus, who is capable of forming some vision of imperial conquest and focusing on it long enough to start a few major wars, who maintains enough decorum or whatever to drum up support for a Patriot Act II that'll let him finally put all the muslims and antifas and whatnot in a death camp. All of this is going to innately shorten the lifespan of the empire, because it is the empire devouring itself in an orgy of brutality; the good fascist is a terrible leader. Trump has not succeeded at any of this mainly because he's simply too narcissistic to organize his power and direct it towards any particular goal beyond running short cons and getting his face on TV as much as possible, and too mercurial to get steered by the many fascist visionaries around him; he rode in on fascist rhetoric but doesn't have the kind of thousand-year-reich visions that brought us to this point. We won't get so lucky with the next Republican to take the Oval Office. A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 21:03 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 20:46
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vyelkin posted:...while no matter what you say about Trump you have to admit he has an absurd level of charisma in the knows-how-to-work-a-crowd and knows-how-to-land-competent-insults kind of way that wonkish politicians almost never have. I'm not willing to concede that at all.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:36
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he's only charismatic if you already agree with what he's saying, otherwise he sounds like a raving lunatic
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Jun 22, 2020 23:40
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Yeah, he definitely has some twisted charisma but "absurd levels"? Lol, guy can barely speak and looks like a Garfield doll left in the sun too long.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:53
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Terry Pratchett had a good word for the sort of personality that is so singular and repulsive and unpredictable yet totally unselfaware that people are mesmerized by it - charisn'tma
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Jun 22, 2020 23:56
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the guy's been a TV heel for longer than most of us have been alive, literally nothing about his repulsive public persona is accidental and by any possible measure outside your personal feelings it obviously speaks to people
A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 00:44 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 00:41
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trumps only real skill is that he's a showman. not sure I'd call him charismatic, but he knows how to I'd an audience and give them exactly what they want and it's one of the few things he's good at.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:48
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Agean90 posted:trumps only real skill is that he's a showman. not sure I'd call him charismatic, but he knows how to I'd an audience and give them exactly what they want and it's one of the few things he's good at. See, I'm not sure that's true. I think he's just got a target audience he plays to very well. If you stood him up in front of a bunch of leftists and told him you'd build a bunch more Trump Hotels if he could get them cheering, I'm not sure he could do it. He has two main intersections of the population under his belt: 1) Rich people 2) Racist people Those two groups cover a large majority of the US voting population and power brokers, so he's good at appealing to them. I don't think he's a good showman in general. He's just such a sleazy rear end in a top hat of an elite that he can get both bougies and reactionaries on his side.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:25
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Cup Runneth Over posted:See, I'm not sure that's true. I think he's just got a target audience he plays to very well. If you stood him up in front of a bunch of leftists and told him you'd build a bunch more Trump Hotels if he could get them cheering, I'm not sure he could do it. He has two main intersections of the population under his belt: The poster above has it right: he's a heel. Even before I was born, he was a natural at being a bombastic tv villain and total bastard. The people who identify with him are the people who would do the things he does if they had his means or were free of obligation. He's pure id and animal want. Many poor racists and many rich people are basically the same but have been educated into denying or hiding their true natures as pure loving animals who would rape and steal with wild abandon if they could be protected from the consequences. Trump is like a powerful beacon straight into that lizard brain consciousness of theirs. I don't know if I'm just repeating you here.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:37
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:The poster above has it right: he's a heel. Even before I was born, he was a natural at being a bombastic tv villain and total bastard. The people who identify with him are the people who would do the things he does if they had his means or were free of obligation. He's pure id and animal want. Many poor racists and many rich people are basically the same but have been educated into denying or hiding their true natures as pure loving animals who would rape and steal with wild abandon if they could be protected from the consequences. Trump is like a powerful beacon straight into that lizard brain consciousness of theirs. Yeah he's basically what would happen if you gave some poor racist dumbass a gazillion dollars and guarantee he faces no consequences for his actions. Sexually harasses women, covers everything in gaudy rear end gold, doesn't pay workers, plasters his name and face on everything cus the world needs to know he's great, etc.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:42
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i bet pooping on a gold toilet would feel really gross from the warm metal
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Jun 23, 2020 01:46
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If the toilet seat is actually solid gold, wouldnt Trump be too fat for it? He would deform it over time cause its so soft? Also the lid would weigh like 80 lbs, so i guess i answered my own stupid "is gold toilet real???" question.
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Jun 23, 2020 02:58
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It's probably gold plated, and not the good kind. I'm saying Trump shits on pyrite and probably rubs off on his rear end.
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Jun 23, 2020 03:12
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Mercury_Storm posted:a lot of boomers refuse to retire and have salaries and benefits that will likely never be afforded to anyone ever again, soo..... Both my parents (silent gen) died under Rptmu (so technically they're non-Umrpt voters realizing they're dying under Murpt, I guess...) I'm pretty sure it was their greatest shame, not outliving this vile heap of poo poo. Even so, I had to fight more that a couple times with them over who their true enemy was. Seriously, I chewed their asses about 20 years ago when I found them watching FoxNewz, thank god it worked and I never caught them watching it again. Even so, dad had a weird obsession that scientists were faking poo poo to get 'moar tax dollars' - Jezuz dad, I'm a scientist, if anything we don't care enough about money.... Think about it man.... Even more so it was hard to convince them that they ultimately lived better than their kids and grand-kids could ever hope for. A couple high-school graduates (and dad would openly admit he barely managed that) raised 4 kids with a mostly stay at home mom. Why yes, dad was in a union, and he was poo poo with money, we still pulled through - unimaginable in their parent's time, and pure fantasy now, union or no. I guess that's why they're gone, too good for this shitheap world. They got out cheap.
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Jun 23, 2020 04:16
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"Trump has a gold toilet" is a right-wing psyop to make you forget that Trump is diaped up to own the libs.
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Jun 23, 2020 04:48
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Halloween Jack posted:"Trump has a gold toilet" is a right-wing psyop to make you forget that Trump is diaped up to own the libs. Antithesis: Trump shits in diapers Synthesis: Trump shits in gold diapers
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Jun 23, 2020 05:48
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Halloween Jack posted:"Trump has a gold toilet" is a right-wing psyop to make you forget that Trump is diaped up to own the libs. Of course Trump has a golden toilet to match the shower.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:52
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Halloween Jack posted:"Trump has a gold toilet" is a right-wing psyop to make you forget that Trump is diaped up to own the libs. He has one, he just doesn't use it.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:56
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Cup Runneth Over posted:He has two main intersections of the population under his belt: Don't fall for this weird idea that a narrow electoral college win somehow implies massive popularity
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Jun 23, 2020 05:59
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ShadowHawk posted:Power brokers maybe, but Trump lost 2016 by just under 3 million votes and he's currently polling 8 points behind Joe Biden It's totally irrelevant who wins or loses, neither is capable of leading in this national moment and neither has any ideas beyond using plague spending to gut social programs while the power of the rich is expanded. Just move on to new stuff, nothing that happens in November means anything at this point Biden has a punchers chance at winning sure, but who cares? Odds are even if he wins he doesn't get inaugurated and even if he does it'll just be Obama and Bill all over again
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Jun 23, 2020 06:11
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I heard some concern that Matt Gaetz is probably a front-runner for someone as stupid and untouchable as Trump. Who knows. His secret black cuban child/lover will be the test on whether he really is untouchable.
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Jun 23, 2020 06:23
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We have to get to him now, while things still matter around him
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Jun 23, 2020 06:29
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Suspicious posted:he's only charismatic if you already agree with what he's saying, otherwise he sounds like a raving lunatic He was far and away the most charismatic candidate of the 2016 election. I know I’m damning him with faint praise here, but they were all ghouls and Trump’s attacks on them rang true. Trump himself was a monster as well, but everyone just tut‐tutted Trump for being undecorous. They didn’t dare expose his skeletons.
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Jun 23, 2020 06:35
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Epic High Five posted:It's totally irrelevant who wins or loses, neither is capable of leading in this national moment and neither has any ideas beyond using plague spending to gut social programs while the power of the rich is expanded. Just move on to new stuff, nothing that happens in November means anything at this point
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Jun 23, 2020 07:01
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Phobophilia posted:I heard some concern that Matt Gaetz is probably a front-runner for someone as stupid and untouchable as Trump. Who knows. His secret black cuban child/lover will be the test on whether he really is untouchable. See I don't know who that is right away, so he already is at a disadvantage compared to trump by not having name recognition.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:50
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Epic High Five posted:It's totally irrelevant who wins or loses, neither is capable of leading in this national moment and neither has any ideas beyond using plague spending to gut social programs while the power of the rich is expanded. Just move on to new stuff, nothing that happens in November means anything at this point Well maybe we should do something about that (Biden's apathy). You will get jack and squat from Pmrtu, work with what you got, and keep pushing for more. The world is giving you jack and poo poo - the time to start punching up was long ago.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:38
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I agree, but you did say "topple the existing order. well yes, the existing order is the haute bourgeoisie ruling though liberal capitalism, whereas fascism is a mainly petty bourg ideology that imposes a fundamentally different political order where the capitalist class is forced into the role of junior partner in an alliance with the fascist state
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Jun 23, 2020 08:42
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I thought Tom Cotton was the heir apparent on 2024.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:07
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Is there a new Trump wordfilter or am I having a stroke.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:12
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Volcott posted:Is there a new Pmtru wordfilter or am I having a stroke. Quote your own posts and you can see for yourself.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:18
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Epic High Five posted:It's totally irrelevant who wins or loses, neither is capable of leading in this national moment and neither has any ideas beyond using plague spending to gut social programs while the power of the rich is expanded. Just move on to new stuff, nothing that happens in November means anything at this point I've had about enough of this poo poo. It is not at all irrelevant. Trump's fixer Barr is completely subverting the justice department, with the goal being total elimination of the rule of law. To change things so that Trump can do whatever he wants, totally without fear of recourse. Biden is not going to do this. No sane candidate is ever going to do this. You may have not been happy with the Obama presidency, but man, you are going to hate the second Trump term, if he wins. You won't loving believe the things you see happen in a second Trump term, nor will you believe the things that happen after that, for the rest of your life. He has told you straight-up, who he is, and what he wants. He has told you what his vision is-- it consists of total control of all media, dissidents silenced through any means necessary, blatant racism and further marginalization/elimination of anyone who isn't white, people in cages on the border, rigged, Putin-style "elections", cozying up to dictators, executions for crimes deemed to be harmful to the state (of which there will be many), and vilification of science and intellectualism. If you think there is no difference between Trump getting elected and Biden getting elected, really all I can say is gently caress you.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:22
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source ure succ
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Jun 23, 2020 09:26
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Nah he's right especially the last sentence.
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Jun 23, 2020 11:23
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i'll grant that it's technically correct insofar that biden would do the same things as trump but the libs would stop pretending to oppose that poo poo
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Jun 23, 2020 11:26
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