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Zikan posted:The issue with rout chasing is that any unit with a charge bonus applies it’s full charge bonus for every attack it makes to a routing unit. This is why hound units and light calvary will basically annihilate anything they are chasing as long as they aren’t super elite units. Shaven skirmishers just doing ranged damage doesn’t wipe out a routing unit nearly as quickly as even light calvary in my experience. Huh, good to know. I suppose that's why Pistoliers getting a charge bonus isn't as weird as it sounds.
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Jun 29, 2020 01:05
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juggalo baby coffin posted:Sick of kharn the betrayer being a super edgelord? Let's not talk about impossibilities here.
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Jun 29, 2020 02:44
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TheLastRoboKy posted:Let's not talk about impossibilities here. i love kharn too i was just trying to think of someone with an axe and horns on their helmet who slambo could fill in for
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Jun 29, 2020 04:22
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LLSix posted:It also feels weird that the tiny unit size demigryph knights are more effective than the higher unit count cav units. For most melee units that fight in a relatively tight formation, model count isn't that important (except if it gives the unit more HP). Most of the time it's only the front line of models that's actually doing anything, the rest are just sitting around waiting. This is also why ranged units have much higher DPS than melee units - DPS per model is lower, but every model is contributing damage at the same time. Also, when it comes to empire cav specifically, none of it has any meaningful AP damage to speak of except the demigryphs (and the elector count empire knights with greatswords, I guess), and late in the game when you're up against poo poo like Chaos Knights, Dragon Princes and Blood Knights that's armored up the wazoo, only demigryphs really have a fighting chance. I prefer the halberds because when I play empire I mostly use my cav to screen against other cav, and demigryphs with halberds are basically the best anti-cav cav in the game. Oh, and demigryphs are the only empire heavy cav that isn't obnoxiously slow. Still though, the best empire cav is the Bordermen (the elector count variant of outriders with grenade launchers that get armor piercing grenades). 
TheFluff fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jun 29, 2020 |
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Jun 29, 2020 04:42
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TheFluff posted:For most melee units that fight in a relatively tight formation, model count isn't that important (except if it gives the unit more HP). Most of the time it's only the front line of models that's actually doing anything, the rest are just sitting around waiting. This is also why ranged units have much higher DPS than melee units - DPS per model is lower, but every model is contributing damage at the same time. I thought only the first two rows of ranged units fired? That reminds me, do any of the spear/polearm units get bonuses for rank depth or allow people not in the front rank to fight?
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Jun 29, 2020 04:43
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LLSix posted:I thought only the first two rows of ranged units fired? all ranged units fire at once in warhammer
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Jun 29, 2020 04:53
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Ammanas posted:all ranged units fire at once in warhammer Yep, even if the formation is like 12 ranks deep, and even if it's a direct fire unit like handgunners. You can form up gunners in really narrow formations to shoot through fortress gates for example, and all ranks will fire. LLSix posted:That reminds me, do any of the spear/polearm units get bonuses for rank depth or allow people not in the front rank to fight? Not as far as I know. The only benefit of a deeper formation is that they die slower and that it's harder for things like chariots to just charge straight through the unit.
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Jun 29, 2020 05:00
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I have been using handgunners completely wrong. Not having to have ranged units all stretched out is going to make them way more effective.
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Jun 29, 2020 05:03
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Square formation is usually good for ranged, since it's the fastest to turn around.
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Jun 29, 2020 05:07
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Ethiser posted:I really wish they'd put some sort of limit on the Greenskin confederation. I shouldn't be trying to stop a 20 region Grimgor on turn 20 . dogstile posted:What the gently caress is up with skaven right now? I've just tried to play imrik on ME and eshin has four stacks on me by the time i've secured the first province.
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Jun 29, 2020 07:29
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LLSix posted:I thought only the first two rows of ranged units fired? Pretty sure that hasn't been true from RomeTW onwards (with mayyybe a caveat for Empire since you needed a tech to enable multiple ranks firing). Certainly the whole "make a super narrow front so that your entire unit can shoot through a keyhole/wall breech" was already a thing back in M2TW. I know, because I tested it extensively back then ! dogstile posted:What the gently caress is up with skaven right now? I've just tried to play imrik on ME and eshin has four stacks on me by the time i've secured the first province. Are they stacks or "stacks" (ie all skavenslaves) ?
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Jun 29, 2020 07:59
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TOP LORD PICKS ROUND 2 THROT THE UNCLEAN OR GHORITCH   Faction: Skaven (Clan Moulder) Chances of being included: 60% (throt) 10% (ghoritch) i already typed a post on potential moulder lords very recently and these two were my top picks for that. i favour throt because he is the largest and would be better for enabling a 'warpstone lab' style gimmick for clan moulder, but ghoritch is also very cool. I would be happy with either, the three armed ultralarge rat or the rat ogre with robo arms and the brain of a chaos marauder. I left out skweel here even though he has the most endearing backstory because he is not either a monster or a mounted lord, and skaven already have 4 on-foot lords. a lot of clan moulder stuff (clanstone, giant rats, giant pox rat) have been datamined so I give these guys a strong chance of being in. HORTICULOUS SLIMUX   Faction: Nurgle Chances of being included: 10% Horticulous is nurgle's own personal gardener, and one of the oldest known nurgle demons, far older than any great unclean one. He has been tending to nurgle's poisonous plants for all of time, and unlike most nurgle demons he is quite serious about it. mess with the crop, you get the chop, courtesy of his giant pair of rusty shears. He rides around on his beloved snailapillar, Mulch, ploughing the earth as he goes. when he arrives in battle, his garden arrives with him, spilling out of the warp to envelop the battlefield in poisonous miasma. I like horticulous because of his whimsical design, his contrasting serious, workmanlike attitude, and the fact he embodies one of the more neglected aspects of nurgle, that of unhealthy growth. we see a lot of disease and decay, which is growth of a kind, but not much plantlife or mushrooms blooming. I think CA could do wonders with his animations too, I want to see the little nurgling lure wiggle about, his snail lick its lips, and horticulous himself snipping off heads as he goes. I think he is a lower chance inclusion because he is a newer model and there are more iconic nurgle choices (who i will post about too they are just lower on the list). U'ZHUL, SKULLTAKER  Faction: Khorne Chances: 70% U'zhul is the foremost bloodletter in the universe. the bloodletters are khorne's minor demons, which isn't to say they're weak, but they're about as close to cannon fodder as non-nurgling demons get. U'zhul got khorne to notice him by immediately chopping off the head of the first thing he saw the instant he was created. It was another bloodletter, but khorne appreciated the moxie. After taking his 888th head in battle, khorne called him up to the skull throne and said 'i'm proud to be your pep-pep, you are my shining boy' and promoted him to sacred executioner, which is i guess a high rank. the unique thing about U'zhul is that he is not just a raging berserker like literally every other khorne demon, he is a methodical duellist. he stalks the battlefield looking for worthy foes, then challenges them to a duel. Inevitably he chops all their limbs off without killing them, then does the predator head-rip move and holds up their head. Cool black fire burns away the flesh on the head, producing a shiny new skull for the skull throne. U'zhul has only lost three duels ever, and one was to sigmar. when he isn't having a war he travels across the land, searching far and wide, because he wants to be the very best, like no one ever was. he finds worth creatures and says 'duel me or i'm going to gently caress up this entire town you live in'. If they say yes he salutes them then chops them to pieces. like horticulous he has an aspect of his god you don't really see that often, in this case the aspect of martial honour. without skulltaker I don't know how much variety there will be in characters in the khorne faction. another unique thing with skulltaker is that khorne actually makes him keep some skulls he takes. Any really special duel he wins khorne says 'no no, you keep it, you are my son and I love you', which is crazy because you know how greedy khorne is for skulls. All the skulls on his model are engraved with numbers, which I think marks who they are in order of which duel they were in. khorne is his dad and valkia is his mommy (i didn't talk about valkia yet because I am lazy and her story is really long, but rest assured i really want her in the game too, i'm just not sure if she would be warriors of chaos or demons). also in 40k he dumpstered a whole shitload of grey knights, including senior captains, which is impressive. A minor demon vs the overpowered mega demon killer space marines and he came out 'a-head'. also gently caress the grey knights, mary sue rear end bitches. next time: probably more fuckin nurgle guys
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Jun 29, 2020 09:09
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Kobal2 posted:Are they stacks or "stacks" (ie all skavenslaves) ? It's "stacks", but its enough that i basically had to spend 10 turns playing whack a mole because they kept burrowing to the other side of the mountain and taking territory. I guess I can always just abandon my starting province and go nuke their capital. I guess my mistake was finishing off the dwarves.
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Jun 29, 2020 12:04
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I heartily endorse Slambo because I'm also sick of all grimdark all the time and one of the best things about WHFB (as opposed to 40k) is it never went quite so far down that road and kept at least some of the silliness.
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Jun 29, 2020 12:07
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dogstile posted:It's "stacks", but its enough that i basically had to spend 10 turns playing whack a mole because they kept burrowing to the other side of the mountain and taking territory. I guess I can always just abandon my starting province and go nuke their capital. I guess my mistake was finishing off the dwarves. When I did Imrik, I was able to wipe out Eshin by having Imrik himself take their capital then work his way back west - beeline for the cities, don’t get distracted trying to chase down the armies. Sniktch tried to siege my capital, underwaying across that nearly impassable river delta, but I had hired a lord with the powerful trait to supplement the garrison and that was plenty to repel his attack. Edit: Wiping out the dwarves then taking that long northern route to the Eshin capital was my opening play, I didn’t go for Eshin first. Taking the dwarf towns gives you a chance to fill out your starting stack and get a few levels - you won’t be able to get to Eshin fast enough to stop them from having a pile of armies, because the river delta blocks you from rapid action. Eshin has to use those first few turns to kill the greenskins in Pigbarter, so they’re not an immediate threat. litany of gulps fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Jun 29, 2020 |
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Jun 29, 2020 12:33
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I'd say there's a 0% chance of Throt not making it into the game, given Moulder being added is a matter of when rather than if. Skweel is not cool enough as a DLC centerpiece lord and Ghoritch is kind of obscure given everyone else that's been added for the rats so far has been featured in the army book.
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Jun 29, 2020 12:38
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litany of gulps posted:When I did Imrik, I was able to wipe out Eshin by having Imrik himself take their capital then work his way back west - beeline for the cities, don’t get distracted trying to chase down the armies. Sniktch tried to siege my capital, underwaying across that nearly impassable river delta, but I had hired a lord with the powerful trait to supplement the garrison and that was plenty to repel his attack.
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Jun 29, 2020 12:54
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Agreed 100%, and I can't find any minds that do anything to show them down or stop them from cheesing Waaaghs super hard. I tried a dwarf game this weekend and stopped because after beating the initial Greenskin faction I was facing down a Grimgor who had confederated every surrounding Greenskin and his army had a half built Waaagh that already had four lava spiders. Who knows what his other three armies had. I had two armies of basic troops and had just finished my first tier 3 building.
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Jun 29, 2020 13:01
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Every Thorgrim/Grombrindal ME campaign is you sitting in Silver Road for the first fifty turns beating on greenskins and rats so at least it's a ~*lore authentic*~ experience if extremely loving dull
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Jun 29, 2020 13:26
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HerraS posted:Every Thorgrim/Grombrindal ME campaign is you sitting in Silver Road for the first fifty turns beating on greenskins and rats so at least it's a ~*lore authentic*~ experience if extremely loving dull Nah you can knockout Grimgor ASAP (before unifying your first province, even). Granted, Grombrindal has a *much* easier time of it than Thorgrim : use you gyros to murk the goblin thrower (it *has* to die, if some servants manage to exit the map you hosed up) ; and your flamers & bomb miners to deal with the immortulz while they're tarpitted by your infinity dwarf warriors, which are the only troops you can recruit fast anyhoo. Grombrindal himself can deal with Grimgor with token Xbow support. Keep a lone lord back home to supplement the garrison & push away any broken fang wannabe ; and to recruit a handful of grudgethrowers & ballistas. Reinforce Grombrindal with those ASAP and you're good to win the siege on Grimgor's home region even with an otherwise 90% dorf warrior army. Grimgor shouldn't have time to confederate anything if you work fast enough and/or keep his power rating low enough.
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Jun 29, 2020 14:19
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Ethiser posted:I tried a dwarf game this weekend and stopped because after beating the initial Greenskin faction I was facing down a Grimgor who had confederated every surrounding Greenskin and his army had a half built Waaagh that already had four lava spiders. Who knows what his other three armies had. I had two armies of basic troops and had just finished my first tier 3 building.
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Jun 29, 2020 16:07
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Ethiser posted:I tried a dwarf game this weekend and stopped because after beating the initial Greenskin faction I was facing down a Grimgor who had confederated every surrounding Greenskin and his army had a half built Waaagh that already had four lava spiders. Who knows what his other three armies had. I had two armies of basic troops and had just finished my first tier 3 building. This honestly sounds fine. Dwarfs take age to come online big time because their poo poo is so expensive, but you only need a couple of provinces to get them firing. Your basic stacks should be able to hold off orcs that aren't Grimgor's army if you don't auto. Dwarfs can actually turtle up and survive against a lot compared to most factions.
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Jun 29, 2020 16:35
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JBP posted:This honestly sounds fine. Dwarfs take age to come online big time because their poo poo is so expensive, but you only need a couple of provinces to get them firing. Your basic stacks should be able to hold off orcs that aren't Grimgor's army if you don't auto. Dwarfs can actually turtle up and survive against a lot compared to most factions.
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Jun 29, 2020 16:50
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I'm sorry but a full stack of troops plus the attendant stack of Waaagh troops that includes 4 lava spiders does not in fact sound fine when you are just getting your first tier 3 building online. That means slayers are on the way and they kill everything. You can also use your walled settlements and quarreler armies to hold off just about anything (or trick the autoresolve). If you crack that waaagh and lose a lot of guys you can begin recruiting higher tier units (mainly slayers) and keep trying. They eventually run out of gas and you can just underway battle towards goldmines. I've had Grimgor confederate everyone while I languished in the silver road for various reasons. It's hard but you can still win against the orcs. JBP fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jun 29, 2020 |
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Jun 29, 2020 17:03
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I've yet to have an Imrik campaign actually go well. My latest campaign was going well, I had gotten rid of Enshin and Malus and was conquering south when the two major superpowers to the west of me, Clan Mors and Karaz-a-Karak, declared war on me in the same turn and launched twin invasions. The Dwarves are kind of easy to hold off but with Clan Mors and their drat stalking stance I can't actually move armies around to intercept anyone without getting ambushed left and right by rat doomstacks. Despite having territory, the lack of HE trade income has crippled my ability to replenish my losses or maintain higher tier armies that could fight the doomstacks 1:1. Seems like a better strategy would be to progress Wipe out Clan Helheim --> Beeline to kill Enshin --> Secure Dragon Isles --> March West to the Sea to secure moutain incomes and trade income with the rest of world through a port. This is the second Imrik campaign I've lost now - the first one the Orcs ate the world by turn 50, now this time an unlikely alliance between Dwarf and Rat led to my entire western border being inundated. Omnicarus fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jun 29, 2020 |
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Jun 29, 2020 17:09
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After 273 hours of WH2, I completed my first Mortal Empires campaign ever, as Wood Elves on VH/N. Due to constant restart-itis, I have only once completed Vortex as well (with the High Elves). Thoughts: I don't think the Wood Elves campaign is as bad as some people say it is. I never expanded outside Athel Loren, instead I allied with Empire, Bretonnia and Dwarfs. It was fun razing everything outside their borders to the ground, and you can get basically instant replenishment by hanging out on your ally's territory for a single turn. The semi-horde gameplay was enjoyable and you get to see a lot of different factions as enemies this way. It took me 100-ish turns to win, so I like that it isn't too long to beat the campaign. Tree Kin with Argwylon are also hilarious immovable objects. Very grindy, but they come out on top in the end. May change with a higher battle difficulty, though. Also the world roots and world tree maps are very beautiful aesthetically. All in all, I like the Wood Elves but with the amber mechanic, you don't create as diverse armies as you could which is a big minus from me.
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Jun 29, 2020 17:16
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I don't really get why skaven get the ambush stance. Their armies are super strong as it is, why do they get free ambushes?
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Jun 29, 2020 17:36
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Yeah I don't really get why this thread is so down on Wood Elves overall. They feel like the only faction besides VC that's "a Horde done right". They could definitely use some refurbishment and more interesting mechanics (Wild Hunt, seasonal stuff, give us Ariel and the Sisters of Twilight) but they aged much, much better than literally anything else from game 1.
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Jun 29, 2020 17:48
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Amber, mostly
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Jun 29, 2020 17:50
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Out of all the races that need reworks, their problems are the easiest to fix with light modding. WoC and BM can be fun but require significant overhauls/a ton of mods working together.
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Jun 29, 2020 17:53
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Fartbox posted:I don't really get why skaven get the ambush stance. Their armies are super strong as it is, why do they get free ambushes? rats are sneaky. yes the green glowing cannons are also sneaky
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Jun 29, 2020 17:57
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juggalo baby coffin posted:i'm just not sure if she would be warriors of chaos or demons). I think she should be Norsca. They need some love from CA.
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Jun 29, 2020 18:16
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Yeah Norsca could definitely use another Legendary lord at some point and I don't see many opportunities to give them one. Giving them a lord who can fly without a mount would be cool. She's supposed to have ascended to Demonhood long before the game takes place right? Otherwise they could make that her unique campaign mechanic, guess you could make it a self imposed challenge on herself still.
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Jun 29, 2020 18:42
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I'd like to see some kind of recruitment/army caps for the AI. What's gotten to me lately is that all Skaven armies, regardless of faction, eventually fill up with Skryre weapony. Fighting clan Eshin? Ratling guns. Clan Moulder? Ratling guns. Clan Mors? Ratling guns. It gets rid of any uniqueness between factions. I'd love to see Clan Moulder programmed to prioritize rat ogres, for example.
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Jun 29, 2020 19:27
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I'm loving Teclis on his arcane phoenix. Now that I understand magic/game mechanics better I can get a lot more out of a caster lord than when I first started playing WH2. I regularly get like 500-800 kills with him per battle plus his spell animations and the arcane phoenix combat animations makes for a really flashy casting lord. What's left runs into my sisters of avelorn and get annihilated. The nearly 100 turns of chaos stacks from the ocean off the coast of Lustria in the ME campaign is pure bullshit though. Playing Loremasters/Itza multiplayer campaign with my buddy and I've feel like I've destroyed dozens of chaos stacks over about 70 turns turn with more spawning. Warriors of Chaos gets wiped out after their first turn each time they spawn but the minor chaos stacks keep coming.
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Jun 29, 2020 19:41
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Cythereal posted:I think she should be Norsca. They need some love from CA. the reason i discounted her from norsca is their campaign involves winning favour from the chaos gods, but she's already khornes absolute favourite and it would be extremely weird for her to go around dedicating stuff to any other god. she also wouldn't get any special khorne-specific units unless they did an aranessa.
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Jun 29, 2020 19:43
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juggalo baby coffin posted:the reason i discounted her from norsca is their campaign involves winning favour from the chaos gods, but she's already khornes absolute favourite and it would be extremely weird for her to go around dedicating stuff to any other god. she also wouldn't get any special khorne-specific units unless they did an aranessa. Aranessa style would be my guess if they went that route. Valkia starts locked into Khorne and in exchange gets extra Khorne-themed units and/or the ability to summon bloodletters on the battlefield or something.
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Jun 29, 2020 20:13
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There are sub factions, like Har Ganeth and Blessed Dread, that have different rituals and mechanics (Blood Nights and Black Arks from any major port, respectively) that others in their faction do not get, so I could easily see them giving Valkia a different mechanic since she is 100% Khorne.thebardyspoon posted:Yeah Norsca could definitely use another Legendary lord at some point and I don't see many opportunities to give them one.
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Jun 29, 2020 20:41
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Yeah is the eternal spawning of Puppets of Chaos off Lustria's coast a bug? I thought when you killed them they stayed dead in past campaigns.
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Jun 29, 2020 20:46
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It's a shame vampire counts got saddled with Ghorst. Vampires have a ton of characters, too many perhaps, but they'd make super cool legendary lords with twists on their faction mechanics or altered rosters. Blood Dragons could make for a rather unconventional horde, with a roster of elites and heroes, the emphasis is more on you just have one stack and going fighting round the world to just fight the best of the best, rather than focusing on sacking and burning down the world. Like rather than relying on money, you'd get an ever escalating series of quest battles unlocking units, and quests point you at powerful legendary lords to take them out. Ushoran while the most iconic strigoi isn't as interesting as the Black Prince, a character who like Neferata I'd love to see have a mixed roster of humans and undead, the Black Prince himself being a phantom of the opera type character, a noble lord who suffers a terrible illness, only emerging from his self imposed isolation to punish the wicked and keep his kingdom safe. As for Neferata I've mentioned before I would love that she makes it in, not in her End Times form where she's suddenly on Nagash's side, but with her original lore where she hates Nagash and Arkhan for loving her over, and the Lahmians trading in the monsters for elite small squads of vampires and human retainers including the Sisters of Sigmar in a Mordheim reference. Eimi fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 29, 2020 |
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Jun 29, 2020 20:54
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