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Frankly, the Tuetons seem redundant if you already have the Franks.  Another Indian or Chinese empire would have been a better choice. Maybe one of the Korean kingdoms.
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Jul 4, 2020 12:35
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Charlz Guybon posted:Maybe one of the Korean kingdoms. Hwan Empire Hwaiting!! 
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Jul 4, 2020 16:10
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The culture system really feels like the weakest point of this game. Amplitude's strengths lie in art, music, and unique factions. Having to assemble one piece meal in game sounds frustrating and unless the bonuses are insanely different will feel bland as well. Though I would appreciate the game would somehow recognize you as the stubborn bastard who stayed Egyptian all game and would have appropriate art for each era, but that seems like a huge ask.
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Jul 5, 2020 07:44
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The way I see it, the thematic point of this is to emphasize that cultures are not static: you don't have one unified American empire that lasts from the neolithic to modern times. So, like, ancient Egypt is not the same culture as modern Egypt, even if the people are their descendants, and choosing a new culture to evolve into (while keeping some of your old bonuses) represents that. Perhaps an even easier example to understand would be all the different dynasties of China. Or the way Rome fell in the West and left behind a bunch of states heavily influenced by Rome. So in that sense I am all in favor of this system. That said, I'm not sure there's going to be a good reason not to just start with the food culture and always pick the new food culture so that you are the best at food and win a food victory.
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Jul 5, 2020 07:58
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Clarste posted:That said, I'm not sure there's going to be a good reason not to just start with the food culture and always pick the new food culture so that you are the best at food and win a food victory. They are addressing that, though to what effect I'm unsure. I can't remember the exact numbers, but you basically get X growth if you're pulling in more than 10 surplus food. You only get Y growth if you pull in more than 50 surplus food. So 40 surplus food is just as good as 15 surplus food when it comes to growth. Now that has two issues as i see it. First it might not address the problem you describe anyway, you might still have an incentive to stack food cultures. And secondly there will be an intense incentive to micromanage if any of your yields are going to waste. Hopefully the city governor is smart enough to not let waste happen. There might be another mechanism to prevent what you're describing though. It might be the case that food cultures are generally poorly suited to advancing to further eras (after all, it's not all about science) so by the time you get to the next era there might not be any food cultures left for you to pick. It might be that stacking cultures of the same flavourn turns out to be an awful way to play, and mixing it up is optimal. Time will tell though
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Jul 5, 2020 09:11
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:They are addressing that, though to what effect I'm unsure. Well, I didn't mean food specifically, I just meant pick the bonuses that stacks with your current bonuses in order to snowball harder. Which is more or less how Factions have functioned in their previous games.
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Jul 5, 2020 10:08
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Clarste posted:Well, I didn't mean food specifically, I just meant pick the bonuses that stacks with your current bonuses in order to snowball harder. Which is more or less how Factions have functioned in their previous games. I understood you, I guess they assume you'll go with how the game is going? So if you pick research to start you might go militaristic because that feels like the best way to get ahead? The thing is I don't know of a time 4x games have ever supported playing like that. So far a lot of what they've said and done feels like the kinda thing you do when you're totally new to the genre and aren't learning from how people played past games. Taear fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 15:27
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Aren't you limited by when you transition to the next age? If you're in the middle of the pack or latter you might not be able to pick a culture that has the bonus you want.
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Jul 6, 2020 05:53
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We traditionally call that state "losing."
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Jul 6, 2020 05:57
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If it's anything like Civ you're either first to a new age or about to get stomped by the person who is in first.
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Jul 6, 2020 06:04
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Hellioning posted:If it's anything like Civ you're either first to a new age or about to get stomped by the person who is in first. Ages didn't matter as much in Endless Legend as they do in Civ, you'd still want to be the first to snipe the best wonders and age objectives, but you won't be suddenly stomped by vastly stronger units.
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Jul 6, 2020 10:22
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I'd like to see a 4x strategy game where the "age" of the world was determined by the turn number, but how advanced your empire's units and improvements in that age are is determined by your science production in the previous age. So like, if the world enters the information age in say, 1990, the empire that produced the most science in the previous age might get modern tanks, attack helicopters and missile cruisers in its tech tree, while the least scientific empire gets Mujahideen-style forces - AA missile troops, militias, and limited numbers of inferior imported armoured vehicles and aircraft. The less scientific empire still gets clearly inferior forces, but they're at least logical to the age of the world.
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Jul 6, 2020 11:39
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That would be interesting. And reminds me how weird it is in Civ that 'barbarians' will still spawn in the modern area, with modern equipment, so you might randomly get a 'barbarian' destroyer sailing down from the arctic circle. Barbarians should update to pirates and then terrorists, or something. And have appropriate units/bases
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Jul 6, 2020 11:44
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:That would be interesting. It reminds me of that one EU 3 mod that stretches the game out to the modern era, where nations can hire pirates to blockade their enemies with nuclear subs and carriers.
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Jul 6, 2020 11:59
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Gort posted:I'd like to see a 4x strategy game where the "age" of the world was determined by the turn number, but how advanced your empire's units and improvements in that age are is determined by your science production in the previous age. Can I just say that I think this is genuinely inspired as an idea. You could also make it such that in various eras the tech difference matters more, or less. So in the industrial era the "bad" units could be significantly worse than the good ones (colonialism!), but in the atomic era there's a much smaller gap (decolonisation!)
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Jul 6, 2020 12:08
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:That would be interesting. Well, the barb camp in civ v during the modern age looked like a modern day insurgent camp so the idea was there
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Jul 6, 2020 13:30
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Sounds cool, but I'd worry it's just kinda 'win more' and it takes agency away from players to spec the way they want to. If there were significantly cheaper science trees that focused on guerilla tactics and quantity over quality, it could achieve a similar end. I agree that it's always been a bit of a dumb contrivance that civilisations can casually be separated by two entire ages, and an objective rolling timeline makes a lot more sense. It's a nice idea for the standout players in certain areas to get carryover rewards into the next age (access to certain units, buildings etc) but if it's too impactful, you'll just get a snowball effect where the top in science at the start will just keep increasing their advantage. I'm sure it could work with some finessing though.
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Jul 6, 2020 13:40
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My favoured solution is huge discounts to research times based on the number of (neighbouring?) civs with that tech, combined with fun small first-to-discover bonuses to make the race still worthwhile.
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Jul 6, 2020 14:05
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AG3 posted:I don't know why, but that thinking emoji at the end of each tweet is really annoying to me. It really feels like whoevers running the account doesn't realize the emoji is basically only used for sarcasm and not actual serious thoughts. So it comes off as them being incredibly dismissive about their own game.
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Jul 6, 2020 17:57
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I was thinking the other day about some kind of system where instead of there being huge gaps between military units when you get the next upgrade, as you advanced through military research your units would just get small upgrades continuously, all at once (or based on the unit line maybe), which would change their name and appearance at certain stages. Would probably work best if each unit was a cluster of them like in 4/5, so at some point you might have a mix of bronze swordsmen and iron, or musketeers integrating riflemen before it becomes entirely riflemen. This way someone a bit behind on their military would have a sma health/damage disadvantage on their units, but not the massive gap you get for warriors vs iron swordsmen and the like that you often see in civ. Unique military units could roll in at their appropriate phase on the timeline, and be a bit stronger. If you could split production in cities maybe the speed that your army catches up with your theoretical research would be based on how much general production you put towards a general logistics and supplies category or something.
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Jul 6, 2020 18:48
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Tree Bucket posted:My favoured solution is huge discounts to research times based on the number of (neighbouring?) civs with that tech, combined with fun small first-to-discover bonuses to make the race still worthwhile. Exactly what Civ4 does.
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Jul 6, 2020 20:34
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really queer Christmas posted:It really feels like whoevers running the account doesn't realize the emoji is basically only used for sarcasm and not actual serious thoughts. So it comes off as them being incredibly dismissive about their own game. Will you play our game? 
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Jul 6, 2020 21:14
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really queer Christmas posted:It really feels like whoevers running the account doesn't realize the emoji is basically only used for sarcasm and not actual serious thoughts. So it comes off as them being incredibly dismissive about their own game. They're French, maybe the emoji is used in a more serious way there?
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Jul 7, 2020 10:45
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Given how competent their marketing has been so far it's likely they're just bad at it.
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Jul 7, 2020 14:41
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GodFish posted:I was thinking the other day about some kind of system where instead of there being huge gaps between military units when you get the next upgrade, as you advanced through military research your units would just get small upgrades continuously, all at once (or based on the unit line maybe), which would change their name and appearance at certain stages. Would probably work best if each unit was a cluster of them like in 4/5, so at some point you might have a mix of bronze swordsmen and iron, or musketeers integrating riflemen before it becomes entirely riflemen. This way someone a bit behind on their military would have a sma health/damage disadvantage on their units, but not the massive gap you get for warriors vs iron swordsmen and the like that you often see in civ. Unique military units could roll in at their appropriate phase on the timeline, and be a bit stronger. Alpha Centauri did that a bit with new mods to units as you developed new tech.
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Jul 7, 2020 14:56
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Exactly what Civ4 does. Getting liberalism first is like the opposite of "small bonuses"
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Jul 7, 2020 15:53
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really queer Christmas posted:Getting liberalism first is like the opposite of "small bonuses" Civ4 really was the last of the 90s games, even though it came out after 9/11.
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Jul 7, 2020 17:50
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Looks good to me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYbJyzRv2XE
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Jul 9, 2020 10:49
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https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1280524519917092876
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Jul 10, 2020 02:56
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Charlz Guybon posted:Looks good to me This is easily the most important screenshot of that video:  Now we have an idea of what the hell the unique buildings and units are like as well as getting an idea of how the cultures are intended to be used for!
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Jul 10, 2020 11:00
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Holy poo poo actual numbers
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Jul 10, 2020 11:17
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Also confirmation that minor races/city-states/whatever will be in.
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Jul 10, 2020 12:21
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its odd to combine the fluyt and the voc when the fluyt was far more used for the moedernegotie (mother of all trades) which traded with eastern europe and in which the voc did not appear. some fluyts were used by the voc, but their nature made them largely bad at the job
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Jul 10, 2020 13:19
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Danann posted:This is easily the most important screenshot of that video: There's a fair bit of this kind of stuff in Potato McWhiskey's preview video as well (he's played the game but the video is just him giving impressions over provided b-roll footage, not him playing the game. He was pretty jazzed about it, fwiw.
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Jul 10, 2020 13:41
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Clarste posted:The way I see it, the thematic point of this is to emphasize that cultures are not static: you don't have one unified American empire that lasts from the neolithic to modern times. So, like, ancient Egypt is not the same culture as modern Egypt, even if the people are their descendants, and choosing a new culture to evolve into (while keeping some of your old bonuses) represents that. Perhaps an even easier example to understand would be all the different dynasties of China. Or the way Rome fell in the West and left behind a bunch of states heavily influenced by Rome. So in that sense I am all in favor of this system. A bit ago, but it's not so much the flavor reason, I understand why they are doing that, but it just sounds like it will feel bad in terms of gameplay. What you will end up will feel like a mishmash of various bonuses, unless you just pick the food culture so that at least you'd have a continuity of what you're good at. I prefer a stronger set faction with it's own identity. In the case of a civ like game, maybe you would pick the geographical region of Egypt and you'd switch from Ancient Egyptians, to Diadochi, to Roman, to Arab, and so on. But the faction you're playing at would have it's bonuses set. Picking them up at 'random' in game doesn't feel that flavorful to me right now, it's just adding bonuses with no clear idea of what you are at the outset, and a muddled idea at the end.
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Jul 12, 2020 02:48
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i don't know whether or not to look forward to this game at this point because reactions over time seem mixed. but i'm always up for a c*viliz**ion clone, and seeing some kind of preview that people are positive about is good imo
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Jul 12, 2020 03:35
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webmeister posted:There's a fair bit of this kind of stuff in Potato McWhiskey's preview video as well (he's played the game but the video is just him giving impressions over provided b-roll footage, not him playing the game. Looked this up, seems good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71bTl185ZEo
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Jul 12, 2020 06:29
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The White Dragon posted:i don't know whether or not to look forward to this game at this point because reactions over time seem mixed. but i'm always up for a c*viliz**ion clone, and seeing some kind of preview that people are positive about is good imo Yeah, I don't hang out in Games a lot, just stumbled into this thread really, but this is probably one of the most 'down' on a game I've seen goons be for a while. Well, their social media stuff is lovely. But yeah, a lot of scepticism and negativity. Generally speaking, my experience of goons with games is usually more of a fanatical hype, so it's a bit surprising. Honestly, game will very likely be good. Amplitude have put out nothing but interesting and cool games thus far.
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Jul 12, 2020 11:03
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I wonder if picking new cultures will be first come first served, so you might not always get the culture you’d want/be best for you. There are lots of interesting discussion in this thread - i think it’s clearly really hard to do a game like this well and still make it fun, so hopeful that this humankind does that however it does that when it’s released, cos the civ series to me at least has been dead since 4.
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Jul 12, 2020 12:46
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CareyB posted:I wonder if picking new cultures will be first come first served, so you might not always get the culture you’d want/be best for you. As far as I know it is first come first serve. And there’s some strategy to either plowing into the next age as fast as possible versus grabbing as many points (stars?) as you can before leaving an age.
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Jul 12, 2020 13:07
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