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Yeah, especially now with all the idiots all going to the Ost-/Nordsee for their precious Urlaub it seems extremely dumb.
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Jul 6, 2020 10:52
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Jup, Urlaubssaison is going to be a shitshow. They already had some old lady introduce the roni to some island in the Nordsee or whatever because "muh vacation" .
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Jul 6, 2020 12:54
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Sommerurlaub in Spanien oder an der Nordsee, Skiurlaub in Ischgl, Event-Shopping gröhlende Fussballfans, Karneval und Kirche. Irgendwie schon seltsam, dass all die Hauptrisikoverhaltensweisen solche der Boomer und der "bürgerlichen" Mittelschicht sind. Als ob die Natur uns etwas mitteilen möchte. 
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Jul 6, 2020 12:58
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Grölende Fußballfans und Karnevalisten, die klassischen Vertreter*innen der oberen Mittelschicht. Selbst die Kirchen Spreader fanden sich in Freikirchen, die ja eine recht spezielle Klientel bedienen. The boomers are not at fault this time.
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Jul 6, 2020 13:14
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So... my parents for some inexplicable reason are driving to their summer house tommorow. In...Sweden... Planning to stay until September. But it is in an area with almost no cases, in a small town with 0 cases and they will not be outside except for shopping etc, you see. There was nothing I could tell them that would make them reconsider, which is surprising because they have been really good at distancing and masks and isolation, but it seems they are adamant at going. I even told them if they went, I would need access to all their documents insurance, bank locker, accounts etc. To try and dissuade them. On Friday we had an appointment at the bank where they signed full Vollmachten for me and they gave me a comprehensive list of all their insurances, running contracts etc. on Saturday. So I stopped worrying and learned to love having access to my inheritance. I genuinely don't understand how you can be so thorough to cover all eventualities and at the same time so careless.
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Jul 6, 2020 14:12
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My mother just said "gently caress it" and took the boat. I think they are somewhere in Denmark right now. Though I guess you can't distance better than being on a boat on the sea with a month worth of supplies…
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Jul 6, 2020 15:14
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GABA ghoul posted:The systemic racism that black Americans are exposed to is somewhat exceptional in the western world. The prison industrial complex alone is absolutely mind boggling and unique in the western world. So is the exclusion from healthcare access. Social mobility also seems exceptionally limited. A comparable phenomenon in Europe would probably be Roma in eastern European countries, but then we are no longer talking about Germany and the mechanics are also somewhat different (although not any less disgusting). Okay so. You should be very careful about statements regarding what exists here and what does not, because I guarantee you that systemic racism is 100% invisible to you if you are a "~normal~" German dude. Systemic, as in institutionally and socially anchored racism in Germany exists and is incredibly strong against people of Turkish, Arab, Persian or N.African descent. In certain aspects, these things are more negative and damaging than their loose equivalents in the US, for complex reasons that would require an in depth discussion. In certain cities this also now specifically includes anyone with darker skin, but really only after these groups became more visible. Nevertheless, for anyone who isn't stereotypically German looking, the scale runs from "novelty" to "racism" depending on visibility and history in Germany. I can't really think of any groups that are just accepted in society. Systemic racism requires some amount of population to exist, of course. For example, a Sikh I knew visited Germany and was _constantly_ stared at in public and every interaction was extremely uncomfortable. Most people have never seen a full on Sikh before, however, so while it's a racism it's not an institutionalized racism. My wife is Turkish and I could fill volumes with racisms. This includes the usual "Scheiß Ausländer" in the subway, but also things like getting invited to an assessment center and later being told the invitation was only to check how "Deutsche" candidates deal with "other cultures". This was a large German conglomerate starting with S, by the way. And no, we couldn't do poo poo about it. I find that systemic racism is most visible because it's integrated into the mindset of the minority group itself. For example, when some guys wave you over at the park when out on a Sunday stroll, and tell you to be careful because a police patrol just arrived. And then, being always the first one to get "checked" in any interaction with the police, ever. Or when Turks literally refuse to believe that my wife has a MSc in Math from a grand ecole and assume she is lying and is in fact a housewife. It's being called brave for not wearing a scarf. It's when the immigration officer does not believe that you did not apply for Harz 4 after arrival and wants to "double check it". It's being asked if the location where we live is then "more towards Wedding, right?". It's being told one is "surprisingly well integrated". It's the whole thing of responses (applications, Behörde, other things) when using a German vs. a Turkish last name. As for labels, I think that the American ones don't work here for a number of reasons. One is that minorities here have developed other coping mechanisms and elements of pride that don't necessarily lend themselves to how the discussion is approached in the US. This would be a long topic, of course, but my point is that while things don't translate, one should not try to quantify how Bad things are here versus there, especially when not living it. Things differ between the US and Germany. How people may or may not be accepted based on different criteria, and how that is taken up and integrated by minorities and their feeling of "validity" and worth. Think about the discussion about "Leitkultur", for example, or the general feeling of the population whether racism is an issue at all. This all is much too complex to discuss here, but you are deluding yourself if you think everything is better in Germany than in the US, even if comparing blacks and others. For the posters itt, we should be conscious that as a non minority person, one has a very, very limited perspective of how much garbage is actually experienced by minorities on a daily basis. That's really all there is to it. Let others figure out the labels and validity of these things. Just don't go and make a value judgement of how life is here or there based on stuff you don't actually know. I feel that this is a minimum amount of humility and decency that everyone can and should have. Haramstufe Rot fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jul 6, 2020 |
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Jul 6, 2020 15:19
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Antigravitas posted:My mother just said "gently caress it" and took the boat. I think they are somewhere in Denmark right now. Don't take this personally, since it's my unwavering commitment to class warfare that is making me post this, but: "lol, 'the boat'"
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Jul 6, 2020 15:20
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Smirr posted:Don't take this personally, since it's my unwavering commitment to class warfare that is making me post this, but: "lol, 'the boat'" Funny thing is, I ran the numbers and it's less expensive than most of the cars I see on the street. Maintenance is a bitch but that's mostly a time investment. So she drives an absolute piece of poo poo car and has a loving boat instead. justnordicthings.jpg
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Jul 6, 2020 15:40
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And with that came the realisation that I can't afford a nice place to live, but…I could buy a boat…
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Jul 6, 2020 15:42
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Antigravitas posted:And with that came the realisation that I can't afford a nice place to live, but…I could buy a boat…  mods are ????, post ancient memes
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Jul 6, 2020 15:48
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Haramstufe Rot posted:Okay so. Huh, aber ich sehe nur gute Menschen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnP4w8eTAxU
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Jul 6, 2020 16:04
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Good post otherwise, but:Haramstufe Rot posted:you are deluding yourself if you think everything is better in Germany than in the US, even if comparing blacks and others.
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Jul 6, 2020 18:35
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I'm already too angry about other 'rona stuff, so I'll just repost Ms Stokowski on mask abolishment. https://twitter.com/marga_owski/status/1280043400184639489
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Jul 6, 2020 18:36
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Mithaldu posted:We have our own subtle racism, but it isn't like our whole country is subconsciously built to exploit people of color. white german man calls racism in germany "subtle", more news in the heute journal
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Jul 6, 2020 18:47
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I mean anti black racism in the US is pretty next level, there's a whole system of oppression that isn't exactly on the same scale as people obnoxiously asking where you're from. Same for Native Americans. That doesn't mean everything is fine in Germany, of course it's not, but American racism is a special thing.
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Jul 6, 2020 18:50
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Haramstufe Rot posted:Okay so. This is only tangentially related to the main subject of your post, but big props to your wife for being smart enought to get a MSc in Math in France. I spent a semester there (at a "normal" university, not a grande ecole though) and found it much harder than in Germany. Not because the professors were worse or anything like that (most of them were pretty good at teaching) but because the demands were much higher.
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Jul 6, 2020 18:54
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Yeah, I'm fairly sure if a black, pregnant woman was shot by police in Germany, at least some eyebrows would go up, I hope. At the very least trying to throw her into prison for illegal abortion (the woman in question lost her child) would raise a shitstorm here. That kind of thing is some racism-singularity, I'm sure. The typical German stupidity can't dream of reaching that level of evil. Our racism is the more banal and boring kind.
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Jul 6, 2020 18:59
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I'm not sure. The average eyebrow raising going on after two black people spontaneously caught fire in their holding cells was not exactly huge.
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Jul 6, 2020 19:09
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Randler posted:I'm already too angry about other 'rona stuff, so I'll just repost Ms Stokowski on mask abolishment. Germ-any Discussion: Scheißproblem, Scheißmaske, Scheißgeschäft, Scheißargumente, guten Morgen Too long, isn't it?  e: great now I'm semantisch übersättigt and scheiße looks weird
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Jul 6, 2020 19:26
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Libluini posted:Yeah, I'm fairly sure if a black, pregnant woman was shot by police in Germany, at least some eyebrows would go up, I hope. At the very least trying to throw her into prison for illegal abortion (the woman in question lost her child) would raise a shitstorm here. People are beaten up in Germany every day because they are Jewish, Arab looking, black, etc. I'm sorry that you find the physical and mental racism that minorities in Germany have to suffer every day boring and banal op. maybe next time you witness a racist incident, you should comment on how boring it is.
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Jul 6, 2020 19:38
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pidan posted:
mods?
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Jul 6, 2020 19:49
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Boring racism: never get a job because of your slight arabic accent Exciting racism: get set on fire woo
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Jul 6, 2020 19:53
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80 years ago Germans devised a system to literally murder millions of Jews and other minorities, but yeah anyway:Libluini posted:The typical German stupidity can't dream of reaching that level of evil. Our racism is the more banal and boring kind.
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Jul 6, 2020 19:54
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Wait, what? When did that happen? brb, checking Wikipedia edited to add: woooow. not a good look at all
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Jul 6, 2020 19:59
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Smirr posted:Wait, what? When did that happen? brb, checking Wikipedia i got it from a book but im sure you can find something online
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Jul 6, 2020 20:01
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Didn't wait long enough to get the edit message, but still waited just long enough to get the quote proving that it was not a fake edit. Advanced posting strats
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Jul 6, 2020 20:02
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Smirr posted:Didn't wait long enough to get the edit message, but still waited just long enough to get the quote proving that it was not a fake edit. Advanced posting strats inspiring tbh
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Jul 6, 2020 20:05
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Hopper posted:So... my parents for some inexplicable reason are driving to their summer house tommorow.
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Jul 6, 2020 20:10
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DTurtle posted:My parents also went up to their cabin in Sweden and will stay up there for quite some time. However, that cabin is far out in the woods, the next house is hundreds of meters away, and the next town several kilometers. So, 99% of the time they won't be indoors with any other people. So, where really is a huge risk of getting infected? I mean sitting at the cabin without going to a cafe or restaurant isn't exactly an amzing Urlaub
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Jul 6, 2020 20:23
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aphid_licker posted:I mean sitting at the cabin without going to a cafe or restaurant isn't exactly an amzing Urlaub I think you get the idea 
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Jul 6, 2020 20:28
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Babies Getting Rabies posted:I'm not sure. The average eyebrow raising going on after two black people spontaneously caught fire in their holding cells was not exactly huge. poo poo, forgot about that. Well, it did raise my eyebrows, at least. oliwan posted:People are beaten up in Germany every day because they are Jewish, Arab looking, black, etc. Since you can't talk seriously even for a second, I'm putting you on ignore from now on. God, are you dumb.
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Jul 6, 2020 21:32
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Ya, plenty of things to do in Sweden that aren't sitting in a café (which you can do at home just as well)
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Jul 6, 2020 21:43
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DTurtle posted:My parents also went up to their cabin in Sweden and will stay up there for quite some time. However, that cabin is far out in the woods, the next house is hundreds of meters away, and the next town several kilometers. So, 99% of the time they won't be indoors with any other people. So, where really is a huge risk of getting infected? Mine are in a smallish town with 255 households, and yeah you don't meet people other than in the supermarket, but getting there involves taking a ferry and getting out of your car while on it. They are both 70 and my dad just beat prostate cancer last year, albeit without chemo. Plus conditions/border crossing rules change constantly and right now isn't the time to go away for months IMHO. But like I said, I tried to tell them it is not a good idea. Nothing more I can do.
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Jul 6, 2020 22:04
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KonvexKonkav posted:This is only tangentially related to the main subject of your post, but big props to your wife for being smart enought to get a MSc in Math in France. I spent a semester there (at a "normal" university, not a grande ecole though) and found it much harder than in Germany. Not because the professors were worse or anything like that (most of them were pretty good at teaching) but because the demands were much higher. yeah also she came from a poor family in Turkey with dozens of siblings and zero money and parents who barely went to school, and she gotinto everything by scholarship and studying until 2am and in the morning. She's pretty dope and the treatment she receives is just unfair at times.
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Jul 6, 2020 22:22
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oliwan posted:i got it from a book but im sure you can find something online I looked around. Some guy on YouTube explained that it was all just a conspiracy spread by the Mongolian Pangolinpeople. Now I don't know who to trust, anymore. Disclaimer: The holocaust was a real and tragic event. Never again.
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Jul 6, 2020 22:25
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Haramstufe Rot posted:[...] Hey, uh, nothing to add here. Just wanted to thank you for those insights.
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Jul 6, 2020 22:29
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Libluini posted:Yeah, I'm fairly sure if a black, pregnant woman was shot by police in Germany, at least some eyebrows would go up, I hope. At the very least trying to throw her into prison for illegal abortion (the woman in question lost her child) would raise a shitstorm here. so for example, the thing you are doing right now, re: "We don't have evil racism like that here, only banal and boring!" is ignorant. It's precisely what I tried to write about in my post. But look, I get why you say that and why you feel that way. That poo poo is literally invisible to you. You may or may not see it, you won't really see it. You feel like we would be outraged by outrageous things, but we are not. Outrageous things happen all the time. There are so many situations I could relate where you'd feel that they should not occur in Germany, in fact it would be absurd if they occur here because they are completely unfair and unjustified and make no sense for us. Like, it would be huge cognitive dissonance to our Weltbild if we'd acknowledge all the stuff that goes on. That's the systemic part, tho. Sadly, it takes very little individual actions for a lot of evil poo poo to happen to minorities day in and day out. But you gotta realize that this attitude of "What racism?" is more prevalent here than in the US, and that itself has a feedback effect on the mentality of minorities here, who not only feel wronged and unfairly treated, but also in a situation where they need to justify to themselves feeling that way, even feel guilty for it, feel even more estranged from opportunities available to them and so on. It's difficult to articulate why this is so problematic for minorities, in a way (not in every way) even more so than a situation where racism is just there, visible, blatant and approachable. I am probably not the right person to make these points. I 100% get you, and I wish I could better relate to you why you should think differently. Haramstufe Rot fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Jul 6, 2020 |
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Jul 6, 2020 22:38
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I remember in the 90ies and 00s my friend who had a Sri Lankan Mom and wore dreads was always the only one of us who had to turn out his pockets and got questioned when we were in town late at night doing totally normal things. I can only guess how much worse it might have been had he not been in the company of at least 3-5 white friends who had his back and always stuck around even though we were told to move on. That taught me about racism and racial profiling, and I grew up in Munich, one of the "safest" cities we have in Germany. I can't imagine how deep that rabbit hole goes. I believe racism is one of the topics you have to absolutely take at face value if someone "on the receiving end" tells you about it simply because as a non-POC you will never have the real perspective yourself.
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Jul 6, 2020 22:52
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Yeah, the problem is that as a privileged person you never notice the privilege. It's just completely invisible. Just as an example, I was absolutely floored when a work colleague of mine described how difficult it was for him to get an apartment - even just getting an answer from potential Vermieter was quite difficult sometimes. I never had that problem. He has a foreign sounding name, I don't. That's my privilege showing - but I never would have found that out, if I hadn't heard him complaining. Now in that case there was nothing I could do to help him, but it is still something worth acknowledging and at the very least not minimizing. And then there is stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD0sp0YcsH4&t=43s This is something that basically every person with a "visible" Migrationshintergrund somewhere in their family tree faces. Even if they've been in Germany for several generations. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 00:13
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