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Crane Fist posted:Bad posting isn't a zero sum game lad I don’t think you understand what a zero sum game is. 
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Jul 8, 2020 09:46
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forkboy84 posted:He's doing pushups now. Well, at least one pushup for a photo op. PM doing physio, everything fine
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Jul 8, 2020 12:14
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MikeCrotch posted:We definitely have had inflation in the past few years, its just been in property values & rent Real inflation has been running somewhere between 5%-12% depending on what goods you're looking at and where you're looking (ie. london property prices have gone bananas). But the negative effects of that inflation have more to do with wages not increasing rather than inflation being 'too high'; inflation is generally good for debtors anyway, the exact issue is that debtors haven't experienced inflation in the places that would benefit them (ie. their wage packet). It's also not clear how additional government borrowing would make this situation worse. Greater access to public goods would reduce the cost of living for the average person and while also providing more potential sources of income and employment.
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Jul 8, 2020 12:34
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NGC773 posted:Combined with close to zero pay increases for the public sector and close to stagnant increases in the private. I am about 10k worse off purchase power since 2010. The issue there is that your wage/salary has not experienced the same level of inflation as other areas of the economy, which is a problem; but it's completely separate from the general case of 'inflation bad' or 'additional government borrowing bad'.
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Jul 8, 2020 12:37
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Think about it this way: -> Unemployment is at historic highs -> Access to public goods is at historic lows -> Cost of government borrowing is at historic (negative) lows That is a perfect storm for a government to invest heavily in public goods (both in terms of infrastructure projects like railways/hospitals and in terms of services like unemployment benefits). Objection to this comes from an ideological disagreement about the purpose of the state, not from economics.
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Jul 8, 2020 12:47
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Finally finally finally you can worry about inflation all you like but deflation or stagflation are far more likely and have more severe consequences. Even if you accept 'inflation is bad' (which you shouldn't) it might be the least worst option in the current situation.
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Jul 8, 2020 12:54
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A vaguely related post: governments always make announcements about big infrastructure projects, but one gets massively better bang for buck by investing n maintenance of existing infrastructure rather than building new. It doesn't make for such good headlines though, so there is no chance of it happening here. Hey, Jose, the Daily Maverick article about the Guardian was very good, thanks. And Open Democracy is excellent. I don't agree with everything I have read there but it's thought-provoking, and well-written.
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Jul 8, 2020 12:57
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Rustybear posted:Think about it this way: Rustybear posted:Finally finally finally you can worry about inflation all you like but deflation or stagflation are far more likely and have more severe consequences. Even if you accept 'inflation is bad' (which you shouldn't) it might be the least worst option in the current situation. i agree with all this so sunak announced 30 billions stimulus between paying people to re-hire from furloughs, pay people to hire apprentices and trainees, low vat for tourism stuff but more importantly the comic relief name program https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1280834206210408449 mate im trying my best
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Jul 8, 2020 13:17
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Even if I had money I'd not be eating out again this year
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Jul 8, 2020 13:20
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poty posted:i agree with all this 
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Jul 8, 2020 13:23
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I don't understand why we can all see Canada, we can all see Canadians getting 2 grand a month to sit on their butts, we can all see New Zealand, we can see NZ effectively curbing the virus by listening to scientists instead of politicians, and people will still claim things like masks and lockdowns and social welfare are idealogical issues and not simply "SOLUTIONS TO WORLD-ENDING PLAGUE"
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Jul 8, 2020 13:35
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sweden tried empowering the scientists and they hosed it up, so i wouldn't propose anti-politics as a take-away from covid-19
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Jul 8, 2020 13:40
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because this is a great way to really entrench inequality while pretending you're not
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Jul 8, 2020 13:40
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every musician (and other types of artist) here in Berlin got 5k Euro from the government at the beginning of the lockdown lol. it went super fast too, basically within a week of applying you got 5k in the bank, and the checks will be done afterwards (you will have to pay it back if you don't actually qualify)
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Jul 8, 2020 13:42
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oliwan posted:every musician (and other types of artist) here in Berlin got 5k Euro from the government at the beginning of the lockdown lol. lol that's six months salary for me holy poo poo i'd immediately move out and live in a tent for the next year
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Jul 8, 2020 13:47
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Highlights from Rishi: Half price meal discounts from Mondays-Wednesdays for everyone in the country during August, to encourage people to eat out at participating businesses Discount capped at a maximum of £10 per person VAT cut for hospitality and tourism businesses for the next six months, slashing VAT for food, accommodation and attractions from 20 per cent to five per cent Stamp duty to be cut from now until March 31 next year, for properties up to a value of £500,000 £2bn Green Homes Grant, allowing homeowners to apply for vouchers of up to £10,000 to put towards energy efficiency improvements £1bn to DWP and doubling of number of work coaches at job centres £1,000 bonus for businesses to take on school leavers in trainee programmes £2,000 bonus for businesses to take on young apprentices £2bn Kickstart Scheme to create new jobs for people aged 16-24, who are at risk of long-term unemployment Bonus payment of £1,000 to businesses if they reinstate furloughed staff
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Jul 8, 2020 14:08
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I thought they banned eating rear end 
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Jul 8, 2020 14:31
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NGC773 posted:Highlights from Rishi: lol
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Jul 8, 2020 14:31
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Astounding poor response that, it's a list of ways of reducing government taxation with a slant towards favouring big business and funnelling new government funds to large firms who employ lots of minimum wage workers. No demand stimulus worth a drat at all and no reforms of the UK economy to prepare for Brexit. 2021 is going to be an even worse year than this year lol
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Jul 8, 2020 14:33
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wait does that mean that they're subsidising people going to the pub through VAT exemptions and vouchers
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Jul 8, 2020 14:33
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gonna see a lot of of 'trainees' doing busywork to get them off unemployment stats and let businesses cash their subsidy lol
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Jul 8, 2020 14:36
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namesake posted:Astounding poor response that, it's a list of ways of reducing government taxation with a slant towards favouring big business and funnelling new government funds to large firms who employ lots of minimum wage workers. No demand stimulus worth a drat at all and no reforms of the UK economy to prepare for Brexit. I've picked a great(?) Time to go back to uni
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Jul 8, 2020 14:36
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V. Illych L. posted:wait does that mean that they're subsidising people going to the pub through VAT exemptions and vouchers Yes. Still without any decent T&T structures in place. I'm having a few days visiting family this week and might literally start trying my home as a fallout bunker afterwards lol
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Jul 8, 2020 14:37
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so i'm guessing that 'participating businesses' are all going to be chains owned by tory donors good heavens
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Jul 8, 2020 14:39
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Of course. Investing in public goods decreases the future profitability of private goods and the people that run the tory party profit from the sale of private goods. Instead they'll use subsidies of public money to prop up private business during the crisis. They may say they're ideologically committed to a small state but what they're really ideologically committed to is the maintenance and continuance of existing wealth inequalities. If they have to massively expand the state to achieve that (ie. via massive government borrowing to provide these subsidies) so be it; all other principles are expendable.
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Jul 8, 2020 16:02
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looks to me like they're building up a reserve army of scabs in case anyone previously considered 'essential workers' get Thoughts about going on strike
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Jul 8, 2020 16:27
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scandinavia is basically a hard counterexample to the idea that a large public sector is detrimental to private sector productivity, what the tories are doing is what they've been doing since the seventies: ensuring that owning things priced in pounds is as lucrative as possible
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Jul 8, 2020 17:37
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Actually stunned by how bad that list is lol At least when Macron or the US parties ratfuck the working class you can admire the incredible precision, the obvious effort put into making sure every last cent goes towards the wealthiest. That list got thrown together in an afternoon by people who really couldn't be bothered. A bil for this, a bil for that, round some taxes. Nice pretty round numbers unrelared to reality. And the doubling of DWP work coaches is just a farcical commitment to failed ideology. Measurably the least valuable jobs in the entire UK, anyone on the program becomes 5x less likely to enter employment. Maybe I'm being harsh and it's part of ensuring high unemployment as above?
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Jul 8, 2020 18:08
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it looks to me like the tories are still in PR mode, doing stuff they can spin as *something* while embezzling as much as they can for their mates
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Jul 8, 2020 18:16
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I would have far preferred they extended the furlough scheme for 3 months and given everyone £500.
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Jul 8, 2020 20:35
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NGC773 posted:I would have far preferred they extended the furlough scheme for 3 months and given everyone £500. jesus christ lol
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Jul 8, 2020 20:57
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V. Illych L. posted:it looks to me like the tories are still in PR mode, doing stuff they can spin as *something* while embezzling as much as they can for their mates one of the first things sunak said he was doing was getting rid of the spring budget and just making it an annual event. this is just him tossing random poo poo together in the hopes it delays the catastrophic poo poo long enough to get to the real autumn budget when hopefully we'll be through the worst of covid and he can go hardcore austerity. that is genuinely all this is about
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Jul 8, 2020 21:25
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oliwan posted:jesus christ lol https://inews.co.uk/news/government-500-pound-vouchers-rishi-sunak-giving-money-study-explained-491126
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Jul 8, 2020 21:35
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Spangly A posted:Actually stunned by how bad that list is lol Oh my god, I didn't see the new work coaches. Presume the plan is just to take everyone unemployed & have them working as job coaches?
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Jul 8, 2020 22:29
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forkboy84 posted:Oh my god, I didn't see the new work coaches. Presume the plan is just to take everyone unemployed & have them working as job coaches? in my country, this is rather common - work coaches are very often guys who've written so many cover letters that they just know every permutation because they couldn't get a job for years they have a mad, desperate gleam in their eyes and a rictus grin to a man - these guys (and they are almost always guys) are *not* going back Jose posted:one of the first things sunak said he was doing was getting rid of the spring budget and just making it an annual event. this is just him tossing random poo poo together in the hopes it delays the catastrophic poo poo long enough to get to the real autumn budget when hopefully we'll be through the worst of covid and he can go hardcore austerity. that is genuinely all this is about i guess there's a big ole majority for it
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Jul 8, 2020 22:47
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they've got a majority to do it sure but boris won on brexit and big spending plans. most people think brexit has happened because the press have just stopped talking about it now
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Jul 8, 2020 23:34
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'Imagine the state we’d be in if Corbyn had been in charge': the view from the 'red wall'quote:Sunak’s hospitality package made him feel “massively vindicated” for switching his vote from Labour. “Can you imagine what state we’d be in if Jeremy Corbyn had been in charge of all this?” he asked. lol, uk voters are utterly unable to imagine a government that doesn't do full austerity now also lol at that discount for going to the pub in the middle of an uncontained pandemic just lol in general tbh
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Jul 8, 2020 23:43
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V. Illych L. posted:in my country, this is rather common - work coaches are very often guys who've written so many cover letters that they just know every permutation because they couldn't get a job for years lol this was basically my first not-bullshit job in America Once you get into this, you also get to look behind the curtain at how employers/HR look at cover letters and job applications and it's extremely loving lol
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Jul 8, 2020 23:46
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redleader posted:'Imagine the state we’d be in if Corbyn had been in charge': the view from the 'red wall' the guy quoted there appears to own a pizza restaurant so lol well done guardian claiming he's working class
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Jul 8, 2020 23:49
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redleader posted:'Imagine the state we’d be in if Corbyn had been in charge': the view from the 'red wall' Hit me more daddy, I've still got 3 teeth left.
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Jul 9, 2020 00:32
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