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Shibawanko posted:i hated that show from the start though.. I mean "subversion" is all relative: everything surrounding the One Ring is pretty drat subversive if your frame of reference is classic sword-and-sorcery storytelling where the hero claims treasures with his might and his big dick, but outside of that it has obvious influences in cautionary tales of morally ambiguous magical power, or Christian notions of humility and divine grace. YaketySass fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Jul 11, 2020 |
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Jul 11, 2020 10:13
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Shibawanko posted:a "trope" doesn't tell you anything about how you feel about a character or story
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Jul 11, 2020 10:15
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No, but don't you see, GoT is gritty and realistic!! *jams the worst bits of 8 centuries of history into a couple of years*
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Jul 11, 2020 10:51
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Blood Boils posted:That sounds fine tbh Eh, it could be fun in a "the most excessively over the top decadent bits of Rome/Byzantium/etc egged on by Fantasy Satan's second in command and building up to Invading Heaven" way but I'm not holding out much hope.
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Jul 11, 2020 11:06
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YaketySass posted:I mean "subversion" is all relative: everything surrounding the One Ring is pretty drat subversive if your frame of reference is classic sword-and-sorcery storytelling where the hero claims treasures with his might and his big dick, but outside of that it has obvious influences in cautionary tales of morally ambiguous magical power, or Christian notions of humility and divine grace. Beat me to this, but yeah I was going to say I always thought that the central concept of a) a tiny fat person instead of a big strapping chanson-de-geste hero, setting out on a quest to b) get rid of/destroy a cursed treasure instead of to find and win one, was pretty ballsy and turned the expectations of the readership at the time on their head. Of course now LotR IS the trope
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Jul 11, 2020 12:00
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Shibawanko posted:if they'd done a first age show they'd take the relationship between fingon and maedhros and turn two guys who love eachother devil may care into "get it? they're freaking GAY! fingon is uke and maedhros is seme. they gently caress." and milk that for all the anime fanart and money it's worth Blood Boils posted:That sounds fine tbh
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Jul 11, 2020 12:11
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i mean me too but itd be like shadow of war
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Jul 11, 2020 13:32
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Shibawanko posted:if they'd done a first age show they'd take the relationship between fingon and maedhros and turn two guys who love eachother devil may care into "get it? they're freaking GAY! fingon is uke and maedhros is seme. they gently caress." and milk that for all the anime fanart and money it's worth it would for sure be hilarious if they let AO3 write the show, as you've suggested.
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Jul 11, 2020 13:38
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YaketySass posted:I mean "subversion" is all relative: everything surrounding the One Ring is pretty drat subversive if your frame of reference is classic sword-and-sorcery storytelling where the hero claims treasures with his might and his big dick, but outside of that it has obvious influences in cautionary tales of morally ambiguous magical power, or Christian notions of humility and divine grace. it's a synergy of northern european pagan mythology and christian theology and saints' lives, i wouldn't really call that a subversion, at least not in the shallow tvtropes sense of the word
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Jul 11, 2020 13:38
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LOTR is genuinely subversive of The Hobbit, particularly the first volume. It’s a grown-up sequel to a children’s book where the fun magic ring is evil and will destroy the world, the fun silly unlikely hero of the first book is too old to have adventures and waiting for a long-deferred death, the fun fairy-tale era of elves and magic is passing at best into the disappointing real world we all know, at worst into some kind of god-imperial nightmare. The fun wizard companion freaking dies, the good guys screw up their quest and everything seems to be on the brink of disaster. Tolkien didn’t end up leaning hard into this though, on account of he wasn’t a complete hack
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Jul 11, 2020 13:55
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Runcible Cat posted:Eh, it could be fun in a "the most excessively over the top decadent bits of Rome/Byzantium/etc egged on by Fantasy Satan's second in command and building up to Invading Heaven" way but I'm not holding out much hope. Really depends on what direction do they go with it. They have not claimed it's based on Numenor at all yet, just that it's involved, cause obviously. The 2nd age allows you to have Moria at it's height, Elves all over western middle earth with full fledged kingdoms, and Sauron around and kicking to cause problems. My assumption is it will be tied to the downfall of Numenor since there is no way they will pass up the chance to show an island being drowned by an act of the gods, but if they want multiple seasons, odds are it's also going to be an entirely unrelated story/stories as well since it's essentially a blank slate.
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Jul 11, 2020 16:14
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Nessus posted:I think it is a combination of "there is a reflexive desire to subvert, deconstruct, etc. by default in a lot of media nowadays" and "perceiving a lot of performances as having a sort of charming witty 'I know I'm playing a role' to them which takes away from the actual role itself." Pretty much this. I don't mean to say that actors or writers are any less capable today than the good ole days or whatever, but I think there's some reflexive desires now that push them in the (my opinion) wrong ways when it comes to writing and producing content. That's all that I was (clumsily) trying to say.
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Jul 11, 2020 23:49
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Ginette Reno posted:Pretty much this. I don't mean to say that actors or writers are any less capable today than the good ole days or whatever, but I think there's some reflexive desires now that push them in the (my opinion) wrong ways when it comes to writing and producing content. That's all that I was (clumsily) trying to say. In other news, "holy poo poo piiiiss" as the goons say: https://twitter.com/OptimoPrincipi/status/1281534833320222721
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Jul 13, 2020 08:13
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Really depends on what direction do they go with it. They have not claimed it's based on Numenor at all yet, just that it's involved, cause obviously. The 2nd age allows you to have Moria at it's height, Elves all over western middle earth with full fledged kingdoms, and Sauron around and kicking to cause problems. Given the tie-in to LotR it seems a given they'd go with the forging of the One Ring as a focus for the first season at least, but if they do want to eventually drown Numenor and bend the world they've got a couple of thousand years to cover in between. Assuming they keep Tolkien's timeline, which may be a big assume.
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Jul 13, 2020 09:38
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This all sounds like hot garbage I can’t wait to ignore.
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Jul 14, 2020 05:01
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Outside of videogames, has there ever been a prequel to anything, ever, that justified its own existence and added to the qualities people loved about the story it leads into? I'm sure there must be only a sith deals in absolutes but I'm completely drawing a blank.
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Jul 14, 2020 05:17
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Imagined posted:Outside of videogames, has there ever been a prequel to anything, ever, that justified its own existence and added to the qualities people loved about the story it leads into? I'm sure there must be only a sith deals in absolutes but I'm completely drawing a blank.
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Jul 14, 2020 05:22
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Does the Silmarillion count?
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Jul 14, 2020 05:24
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Imagined posted:Outside of videogames, has there ever been a prequel to anything, ever, that justified its own existence and added to the qualities people loved about the story it leads into? I'm sure there must be only a sith deals in absolutes but I'm completely drawing a blank.
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Jul 14, 2020 05:44
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SHISHKABOB posted:Does the Silmarillion count? Much of the material in The Silmarillion, and virtually all of the story content, predates Lord of the Rings, but was unpublished.
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Jul 14, 2020 07:04
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He-Man
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Jul 14, 2020 07:23
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What if the silmarils are trophies and it's a movie about car racing?
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Jul 14, 2020 07:30
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Elvish cars: Ferrari Human cars: Ford Dwarvish cars: Volkswagen Hobbit cars: Nissan Entish cars: Prius
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Jul 14, 2020 07:33
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Imagined posted:Outside of videogames, has there ever been a prequel to anything, ever, that justified its own existence and added to the qualities people loved about the story it leads into? I'm sure there must be only a sith deals in absolutes but I'm completely drawing a blank. Hmm. Spartacus: Gods of the Arena
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Jul 14, 2020 08:09
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Imagined posted:Outside of videogames, has there ever been a prequel to anything, ever, that justified its own existence and added to the qualities people loved about the story it leads into? I'm sure there must be only a sith deals in absolutes but I'm completely drawing a blank. Temple of Doom and The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly are technically prequels but don't really function as them in practice. Godfather Part II half counts I guess?
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Jul 14, 2020 08:46
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Star Fox Adventures as the origin of Diddy Kong Racing's boss Tricky the Triceratops thematically built on Donkey Kong Country 2's mythological elements in a satisfying way
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Jul 14, 2020 09:09
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the donkey kong legendarium
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Jul 14, 2020 09:10
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The curious case of benjamin button prequels itself. The new planet of the apes movies are pretty good, imo better than the original. Technically Small Gods prequels some discworld books that came before?
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Jul 14, 2020 12:00
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All the Conan stories are prequels to the first one, REH opened up with grumpy old King Conan wishing he could be as barbarous as he used to was
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Jul 14, 2020 12:10
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I have memories of finding The Magician's Nephew perfectly acceptable as far as Narnia books go, but I that was when I was younger.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:06
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reignonyourparade posted:I have memories of finding The Magician's Nephew perfectly acceptable as far as Narnia books go, but I that was when I was younger. I always really liked Charn, it was such a creepy world. Magician's Nephew is basically a straight allegory for the creation in Genesis with all the baggage that implies, but Charn was so legitimately compelling I am willing to forgive most of the rest of the books shortcomings.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:57
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Yeah, Charn is so grand and creepy and sad. And that forest between the worlds! I would happily sleep there forever.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:42
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Better Call Saul
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Jul 15, 2020 21:37
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You know what would make a great Lord of the Rings video game? Gandalf infiltrating the lair of the Necromancer in Mirkwood. You've got your stealth sections, and finding Thrain in the dungeons, and the investigation to discover that the Necromancer is really Sauron, etc.
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Jul 15, 2020 22:37
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Imagined posted:You know what would make a great Lord of the Rings video game? Gandalf infiltrating the lair of the Necromancer in Mirkwood. You've got your stealth sections, and finding Thrain in the dungeons, and the investigation to discover that the Necromancer is really Sauron, etc. Along these lines, you know what I think would be cool? The Adventures of Young Aragorn. We know that as "Thorongil" he fought with Rohan (he served Theoden's father Thengel) and with Gondor against the Haradrim (he advised Ecthelion to trust Gandalf more than Saruman, and Denethor didn't like him because he thought he was more popular), and then he peaced-out to travel to, I assume, reconnoiter the East/South. Which gives you an almost blank slate to work with since Tolkien didn't write much about that. Heck, bring in the two Blue Wizards too.
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Jul 15, 2020 23:20
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hannibal posted:Along these lines, you know what I think would be cool? The Adventures of Young Aragorn. We know that as "Thorongil" he fought with Rohan (he served Theoden's father Thengel) and with Gondor against the Haradrim (he advised Ecthelion to trust Gandalf more than Saruman, and Denethor didn't like him because he thought he was more popular), and then he peaced-out to travel to, I assume, reconnoiter the East/South. Which gives you an almost blank slate to work with since Tolkien didn't write much about that. Heck, bring in the two Blue Wizards too. This is exactly what I don't want. Don't try and flesh out characters that we all are connected too already. It's just way too easy to write it poorly and just create stupid inconsistencies with them. That's why I was mostly happy with the 2nd age decision, it's a true blank slate and offers a lot to play with, since you can explore the grey Haven's, Hollin, Moria, etc.
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Jul 15, 2020 23:31
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WoodrowSkillson posted:This is exactly what I don't want. Don't try and flesh out characters that we all are connected too already. It's just way too easy to write it poorly and just create stupid inconsistencies with them. Yeah it's about as good as you can hope for (although it'll still be bad) Christ, can you image how awful Young Aragorn would be, though? Think about the way literally every modern TV show writes teens / young adults, every one of them a wry wise-cracker just flinging nonstop Gilmore Girls lines at each other.
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Jul 16, 2020 05:35
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Imagined posted:You know what would make a great Lord of the Rings video game? Gandalf infiltrating the lair of the Necromancer in Mirkwood. You've got your stealth sections, and finding Thrain in the dungeons, and the investigation to discover that the Necromancer is really Sauron, etc. Maybe a rogue like.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:02
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I’m just learning about Tevildo, Prince of Cats while reading through Beren and Lúthien and all I have to say is what the gently caress Christopher, why isn’t the evil cat Maiar canon? Way to ruin the legendarium, you dog loving coward.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:45
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is tevildo supposed to be a faux-bastardization of tybalt (who is also the "prince of cats") like with atalante/atlantis?
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Jul 16, 2020 22:03
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