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oh but seriously I posted:did the prophets ever indicate giving a poo poo about bajor (not sisko)?
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Jul 14, 2020 22:22
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Admiralty Flag posted:I think I'm in a minority but Look to Windward is my favorite. It's definitely my favourite too.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:24
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thotsky posted:Even that friendship is questionable if you wanna apply contemporary medical ethics. DS9 is like a small town, so there a lot of blurred lines. Ideally he'd just refer people to another physician, but does Bajor provide federation level standard of care? i was talking about janeway and her realdoll you sicko
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Jul 14, 2020 22:24
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thotsky posted:He is the only doctor there right? Is he expected to be celibate? Everyone on the station is his patient. What about Troy and her relationships? She was a therapist for both Worf and Riker yeah? No he literally isn't. Do you think he works 24/7 or never takes vacation? Also Troy 100% should not be dating her patients either.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:28
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socialsecurity posted:No he literally isn't. Do you think he works 24/7 or never takes vacation? Also Troy 100% should not be dating her patients either. Yeah, I expected he just took stimulants if there was an emergency and let nurses handle most stuff, like star trek doctors before him.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:34
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thotsky posted:Yeah, I expected he just took stimulants if there was an emergency and let nurses handle most stuff, like star trek doctors before him. Look at this scrub who forgot about Dr. M'benga from TOS. Shared sickbay with Bones. In later seasons at least, Bashir is backed up by a Bajoran doctor, Girani (whose name I admit I had to look up because she appeared so infrequently -- in fact, I only specifically remember her from the episode where Bashir has sex with his augmented patient in the Jack Pack). On any decently sized ship or installation, you'd need two doctors anyway in case one got sick; if not, you could end up with a situation like that doctor in Antarctica who  had to perform surgery on herself during the winter season
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Jul 14, 2020 23:16
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8one6 posted:They helped that one guy who wanted bajor to go back to a caste system go back in time. What's in your deejarahs
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Jul 14, 2020 23:18
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Timeless Appeal posted:I agree with you but they were already messing when they were ramping up to Dax's death with Jadzia even telling Bashir she would have eventually settled down with him if Worf hadn't come around. I thought it was Ezri who told him that (which is even more of a lol, she should definitely know better)
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Jul 14, 2020 23:52
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I thought it was Ezri who told him that (which is even more of a lol, she should definitely know better) It was.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:12
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I mean it's dumb regardless
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Jul 15, 2020 00:16
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Voyager rewatch log S5 e13 Gravity We get a small look at Tuvok's childhood and Lori Petty guest stars. Neat but Tom's insistence that Tuvok hook up with Nos was weird. E14 Bliss Voyager vs the psychic space whale. Ehh, another "How will voyager not get home this week" episode. E15 Dark Frontier This is, in my opinion, the episode that really started the downward trend for the Borg. I'm not going to bother nitpicking everything I think sucks about the episode (mostly because I'm phone posting) but yeah, it's crap. E16 The Disease I decided to skip "Harry Kim is punished for a hookup". E17 Course: Oblivion "Hey, you ever wonder what happened to those duplicates Voyager left on the demon planet?" "Sometimes. I was thinking of maybe writing an episode about them founding a civili..." "gently caress THEM!" This episode is just so bleak. Everyone dies and there's no record of their existence. Ugh.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:30
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Course Oblivion is one of the most obvious examples I’ve ever seen of the writers hating their own show
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Jul 15, 2020 00:36
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No it’s just the writers realizing they left a reset button unpressed for too long and overcompensated. I still like it.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:41
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skasion posted:Course Oblivion is one of the most obvious examples I’ve ever seen of the writers hating their own show it's so mean and depressing even down to the slightest trace of that crew lmao
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Jul 15, 2020 00:54
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Wasn’t Course Oblivion written by Carl Sagan’s son lol
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Jul 15, 2020 00:55
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Someone ought to write a 12-part mini series in a comic book on how the Silver Blood Voyager accomplishes 1000x the good that Voyager did and somehow saves the galaxy three times, and then ends at the party at the start of Course: Oblivion.
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Jul 15, 2020 01:12
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Timeless Appeal posted:They do help out from time to time. I don't know what episode, but Sisko says something to the effect that the Prophets do have some sort of connection to Bajor although he doesn't really understand it. The connection is that both the Bajorans as a group and the Prophets as a group are arbitrary asshats who have to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing something good.
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Jul 15, 2020 02:00
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HD DAD posted:Wasn’t Course Oblivion written by Carl Sagan’s son lol Nick Sagan and Bryan Fuller, as I recall.
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Jul 15, 2020 02:21
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thotsky posted:He is the only doctor there right? Is he expected to be celibate? Everyone on the station is his patient. What about Troy and her relationships? She was a therapist for both Worf and Riker yeah? At the very least, Bashir shouldn't date his patients while they are in the middle of going through an intensely lifechanging procedure.
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Jul 15, 2020 02:35
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*Bareil’s sense of self progressively disintegrates as his brain is replaced with more robot parts* *Bashir side glances at his rear end*
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Jul 15, 2020 02:52
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SlothfulCobra posted:At the very least, Bashir shouldn't date his patients while they are in the middle of going through an intensely lifechanging procedure. I agree, and the floaty lady episode additionally had some intensely creepy fetishistic and exoticism vibes in there as well. Not to come across as the Bashir-defender on here, but am I completely misremembering them trying to establish him as acting more like in the capacity of fellow researcher and the lady dismissing him as her physician in that episode? I don't think that's how medical ethics work, but it would at least show some sort of attempt by the writers.
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Jul 15, 2020 03:05
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there's deffo some misremembering in this thread about chrysalis, it's bad as hell but I think you're conflating some things w/ beta canon
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Jul 15, 2020 03:17
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Binary Badger posted:Someone ought to write a 12-part mini series in a comic book on how the Silver Blood Voyager accomplishes 1000x the good that Voyager did and somehow saves the galaxy three times, and then ends at the party at the start of Course: Oblivion. 
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Jul 15, 2020 03:45
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I may also be confusing the horny doctor on DS9 with the horny doctor on B5. You know, I think I'd be more interested in Bashir if instead of it being revealed that he was the result of genetic engineering, it turned out that he had developed an addiction to space-caffeine pills. Or if he was deaf. You'd think that Starfleet would have some kind of official policy on dating within Starfleet, considering how all these people are out in deep space for years with good odds that they'll be the only other humans they'll have contact with. Picard had to figure out on his own that dating a subordinate could affect the objectivity of his command.
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Jul 15, 2020 04:09
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8one6 posted:Voyager rewatch log I kinda liked Course: Oblivion. It was super bleak. It could also be kind of a reverse reset button. All the reset buttons are like "Oops, major changes happened better make sure Voyager gets put back together at the end". This one was the writers chance to destroy a Voyager without taking it back. That crew is gone forever.
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Jul 15, 2020 05:21
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Star Fleet assumed that all the ancient humanities grad students in their employ would be too socially awkward for sex to even be an issue
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Jul 15, 2020 05:56
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oh but seriously I posted:Star Fleet assumed that all the ancient humanities grad students in their employ would be too socially awkward for sex to even be an issue I still want to know how Starfleet thought that putting a man who thought Nazi Germany was pretty alright onto a planet to observe the culture was a good idea. How did that guy slip through the cracks?
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Jul 15, 2020 07:58
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Nullsmack posted:I kinda liked Course: Oblivion. It was super bleak. It could also be kind of a reverse reset button. All the reset buttons are like "Oops, major changes happened better make sure Voyager gets put back together at the end". This one was the writers chance to destroy a Voyager without taking it back. That crew is gone forever. It was a reset button for the Demon episode though.
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Jul 15, 2020 08:20
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jeeves posted:Then the scene changes to Epslion 9 and I was like "wow, that model looks great" and then it cuts to the Federation losers with their lovely costumes and EXTERNA VISUAL and I turned it off.
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Jul 15, 2020 11:21
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Payndz posted:All the actors in Epsilon 9 are of Joey Tribbiani daytime soap level. Hard to believe that whatsisname who plays the commander was going to be the Spock replacement in Phase II. David Gautreaux. 
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Jul 15, 2020 15:43
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I still want to know how Starfleet thought that putting a man who thought Nazi Germany was pretty alright onto a planet to observe the culture was a good idea. How did that guy slip through the cracks? After WWIII and the Eugenics Wars, people thought of Hitler like, I dunno, like Americans think of the Kaiser or Ataturk these days? He was on the other side but compared to people like Khan or Colonel Greene not in the same neighborhood of evil? Just speaking from an in-universe justification standpoint, not my personal moral view, of course. I personally would never go worse than, say, Napoleonic France when reorganizing a barbaric society on another planet, unless of course I had a printed copy of "Chicago Gangs of the 1920s" with me
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Jul 15, 2020 15:56
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Admiralty Flag posted:After WWIII and the Eugenics Wars, people thought of Hitler like, I dunno, like Americans think of the Kaiser or Ataturk these days? He was on the other side but compared to people like Khan or Colonel Greene not in the same neighborhood of evil? I dunno. In Space Seed, everybody but Spock was pretty impressed by Khan. Of course, the real, out of universe answer about the Hitler episode was that, in the 1960s, general opinion of Nazi Germany was, while it was evil, warmongering, antisemitic, genocidal, and so on, it was administratively efficient compared to Weimar Germany. As the episode puts it: quote:KIRK: Gill. Gill, why did you abandon your mission? Why did you interfere with this culture? was basically the standard academic view at the time....evil, brutal, perverted, malevolent but efficient. It wasn't until pretty much the 1980s, when historians started to look at Nazi internal decision making and the German bureaucracy during the Nazi period that they realized what an administrative mess Nazi Germany really was.
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Jul 15, 2020 16:29
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Epicurius posted:I dunno. In Space Seed, everybody but Spock was pretty impressed by Khan. That's true, but they did mention that Khan was by far the least awful of all of the genetic emperors, something that kinda got retconned out later as he became the big grand Star Trek villain. Still evil, but there were much more evil ones there.
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Jul 15, 2020 16:49
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Khan's probably seen the same way as Napoleon - bad by modern standards but not outrageously so for his time, with public perception swinging back and forth between national hero and tyrant.
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Jul 15, 2020 16:56
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Epicurius posted:Of course, the real, out of universe answer about the Hitler episode was that, in the 1960s, general opinion of Nazi Germany was, while it was evil, warmongering, antisemitic, genocidal, and so on, it was administratively efficient compared to Weimar Germany. As the episode puts it: Yep. The myth of Nazi efficiency was and still is strong. The reality is authoritarian states are almost always less efficient than democratic ones, regardless of how many breathless articles about elevated highways Thomas Friedman writes, and the Nazis were even bad by authoritarian standards.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:15
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It is extremely true that they were badly administratively mismanaged, but I think it's also a mistake to always highlight that, because I think it confuses the issue that it is not why they were bad. I mean, worth mentioning, but I think as a major diversion it's very odd because it sort of implies that if they were more bureaucratically streamlined than they would have been more compelling.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:22
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Epicurius posted:It wasn't until pretty much the 1980s, when historians started to look at Nazi internal decision making and the German bureaucracy during the Nazi period that they realized what an administrative mess Nazi Germany really was. Oh yeah, Star Trek. Remember the Nazi aliens from Enterprise? Boy, they were... a thing.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:22
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womb with a view posted:I've heard this, but I've never really researched into what it really meant. I imagine they thought it was super efficient back then because the country bounced back quickly after WWI and all its economic sanctions/devastation. Was it able to come back through some external circumstances unrelated to the administration? I think Spock's lines kind of mirror what people thought - post-WW1 Germany was a complete mess and they turned into a global threat very quickly.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:29
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how many star trek series DON'T have run ins with nazis or aliens inspired by nazis? tng and ds9, maybe? (not counting the new ones)
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Jul 15, 2020 18:31
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womb with a view posted:I've heard this, but I've never really researched into what it really meant. I imagine they thought it was super efficient back then because the country bounced back quickly after WWI and all its economic sanctions/devastation. Was it able to come back through some external circumstances unrelated to the administration? Basically, to make a long story short, Germany had originally recovered from the WWI's devastation throughout the 20s...reparations payments had been renegotiated, inflation had come under control, and the economy was going ok, if not great. Then the stock market crash happened, and since the German economy had become so tied to the American economy and loans from American banks, and the economy had just crashed, and that economic crash was part of what put the Nazis in charge. When the Nazis came to power, they kept the economy going by basically going full military. They increased the size of the military, they built armaments, and started these big public works programs that had joint military-civilian purposes. The problem economically with that, was that choice wasn't really sustainable, Once WWII started, when the Germans would take over a country, they'd basically loot it, and all the conquered country's resources, gold and foreign currency reserves and so on, would be sent to Germany to keep the German economy afloat. This is honestly not something you can keep doing for long. If you get the chance, I'd recommend Adam Tooze's book, "The Wages of Destruction", which goes into how the German economy worked.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:43
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