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punished milkman posted:i’m not familiar with any of the poo poo malthus said and my eyes glaze over whenever one of you call another a malthusian but i did take some population ecology classes. are you guys taking issue with the concept of carrying capacity or just the idea that we’re near that limit of carrying capacity? carrying capacity applies to animals not humans. humans can construct their own environments. we should not plan for the future as if we were animals
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Jul 16, 2020 20:46
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buddy, have you seen some of the chucklefucks in charge We're definitely a very lovely animal. But ur right we shouldn't plan the way we would for an animal population
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Jul 16, 2020 20:52
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Rutibex posted:carrying capacity applies to animals not humans. humans can construct their own environments. we should not plan for the future as if we were animals i dunno how to break this to u but humans are animals
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Jul 16, 2020 20:52
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what are "we need more people" op ed's even pushing for, tax credits for loving?
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Jul 16, 2020 20:54
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Xaris posted:in other doomsday news, mortgage delinquency is up +50% higher than it ever was during the great financial meltdown depression which only ever saw 2.0% 
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Jul 16, 2020 20:54
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Ardennes posted:The problem is idea that "carrying capacity" is a fixed value rather than a heavily variable one and therefore we need to go after poor people. I mean there's definitely a maximum carrying capacity unless you're taking issue with the law of conservation of energy?
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Jul 16, 2020 20:54
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cumshitter posted:when did bob the angry flower become a liberla since always?   
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Jul 16, 2020 20:55
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Rutibex posted:carrying capacity applies to animals not humans. humans can construct their own environments. we should not plan for the future as if we were animals That's cool construct me some net zero global GHG emissions by 2030 please
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Jul 16, 2020 20:55
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animist posted:what are "we need more people" op ed's even pushing for, tax credits for loving? they're racists/classists OP wah mah white euro/americans and japanese are not having enough babies, wah wah
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Jul 16, 2020 20:55
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Rutibex posted:we should not plan for the future as if we were animals That's what we're doing
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Jul 16, 2020 20:57
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Rutibex posted:carrying capacity applies to animals not humans. humans can construct their own environments. we should not plan for the future as if we were animals the environments we construct still need to be balanced with the carbon, nitrogen, phosphorus, water etc. cycles of the planet, which gets harder and harder as the population goes up
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Jul 16, 2020 20:58
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Admiral Ray posted:i dunno how to break this to u but humans are animals not for long
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Jul 16, 2020 21:01
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PIZZA.BAT posted:since always? god i love btaf
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Jul 16, 2020 21:01
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maybe we can make everyone happy if we only have a rich guy carrying capacity. sorry we’ve got too many rich guys it’s loving up the nitrogen balance in the atmosphere we gotta cut back!!
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Jul 16, 2020 21:05
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Increase carrying capacity or eat hamburger..... Ughhhh gently caress this one is tough
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Jul 16, 2020 21:06
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this was literally my first thought when it was revealed as his plan lol, terminal communism brain
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Jul 16, 2020 21:09
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punished milkman posted:maybe we can make everyone happy if we only have a rich guy carrying capacity. sorry we’ve got too many rich guys it’s loving up the nitrogen balance in the atmosphere we gotta cut back!! i mean, if we zoom out a bit on this... isn't that like climate change in general? and also the premise of the epic maoist third worldism?
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Jul 16, 2020 21:09
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oxsnard posted:so given that Twitter, almost 24 hours later, has not expanded on what types of data were actually released I'd assume DMs are absolutely in the breach. probably more like a bunch of activists are going to get disappeared just like when McKinsey helped score which twitter users should get disappeared
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Jul 16, 2020 21:10
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there's a weird tendency on cspam to assume that acknowledging the finite resources of the planet means you want to genocide the poor, so please be assured i am not pro genocide
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Jul 16, 2020 21:11
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there's probably a maximum carrying capacity for the human species but we're nowhere near it, our problem right now is that we produce plenty enough so that nobody in the whole world could want for anything, but then we destroy it to keep the prices up or because Mitt Romney needed a place to offload some debt
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Jul 16, 2020 21:14
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Dustcat posted:there's a weird tendency on cspam to assume that acknowledging the finite resources of the planet means you want to genocide the poor, so please be assured i am not pro genocide sounds like you and malthusians don't see eye to eye
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Jul 16, 2020 21:14
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too many millionaires and billionaires rn imo, gotta thin the herd
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Jul 16, 2020 21:16
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Epic High Five posted:there's probably a maximum carrying capacity for the human species but we're nowhere near it, our problem right now is that we produce plenty enough so that nobody in the whole world could want for anything, but then we destroy it to keep the prices up or because Mitt Romney needed a place to offload some debt we may not be that far from it, considering that currently all food production relies on fossil fuels, and depending on what kind of quality of life you aim for. an order of magnitude might be a stretch
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Jul 16, 2020 21:18
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Dustcat posted:there's a weird tendency on cspam to assume that acknowledging the finite resources of the planet means you want to genocide the poor, so please be assured i am not pro genocide but uh yeah its uncomfortable to acknowledge we're hosed and a lot of peep are going to be dying in droves in the coming decades no matter the gnashing about malthusian and carrying capacity of 20 billion or w/e. India/Pakistan have a cold war almost starting because both countries are out of water and indus is going dry (see kashimir tensions); a major city of like 80 million people all but ran out of water last year and will prob be worse this year, rural areas are not long able to grow anything and have to have water trucked in, shits gettign warmer and heatwaves are gunna crush a lot of people. Cape Town was running on fumes saved by only literal last-minute rainfall. America is getting on shaky grounds with Ogalla running dry and getting harder to pump along with alternating mega-floods and drought, South America's crisis and state failures are largely precipitated by falling crop yields and droughts, Syria Civil War was precipitated by an ongoing megadrought and food shortages. having our 2w0oz ell-done steaks with ketchup n potatoes every night for dinner is unsustainable. like we produce more than we need at the moment but it's also fueled by massive fossil fuels in haber-bosch processes, fossil fuel transportation and belching freighters, and more fossil fuel transportation and cold storage, and relies on pumping cheap aquifers permanently dry and destroying top-soil such it can never be used again. Asparagus is a good example thats often grown in south america to sell in the west because it's very saline resistant which is a good pesticide so they dump a lot of saline on it as a pesticide but eventually that saline builds up and even asparagus wont grow so they have to slash up and "create" new farm land elsewhere leaving behind unfarmable husks of land. see also whats happening in brazil
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Jul 16, 2020 21:19
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Xaris posted:in other doomsday news, mortgage delinquency is up +50% higher than it ever was during the great financial meltdown depression which only ever saw 2.0% 🥰look at that beaut
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Jul 16, 2020 21:20
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just construct some orbitals. very simple. Thank you based ai computer god.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:20
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and now i'm going to drive my fossil fuel powered automobile to the supermarket to pick up my beef brisket raised on corn grown on fossil water with fertilizer made from fossil natural gas
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Jul 16, 2020 21:20
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We 100% have a maximum carrying capacity and overpopulation problem. The technical semantics of how we could hypothetically do things more efficiently and how we totally should have surpluses now we are wasting mean literally nothing when we are going to continue to do things the same way we always have. We could house billions of people for free in America, but we are going to use our militarized police to ensure that landlords get paid and people starve to death in the streets. We could optimize the global supply chain and focus on efficiency and humanity instead of profit, turning our existing resource output into one that could support twice as many people. We aren't going to. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 21:22
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What a civilization that has survived thousands or millions of years actually looks like is fascinating, to the best of my knowledge only one writer has ever really explored it and even then it was just in one short story. You probably won't be shocked to learn it was Le Guin. Communo-Primitivsm with Extensive Social Welfare characteristics basically. You probably won't have a car unless you need one, communal/large family living, and the only tech that's allowed to proliferate wildly does so with conscious thought of its ecological impact and only if it really helps people. In The Greatship by Robert Reed, a race is known only by a long discarded artifact that is discovered on the hull of the ship. It's a sentient shapeshifting perfect mimic spy drone powered by a mini quasar at its core. Just impossibly more advanced than anything we could aspire to dream of yet. The race exterminated itself long eons ago as a result of turning their home planet into a toxic sludgeheap. It's likely this probe is the last evidence of their existence outside of sparse archaeological reports. Dustcat posted:we may not be that far from it, considering that currently all food production relies on fossil fuels, and depending on what kind of quality of life you aim for. an order of magnitude might be a stretch It really all comes down to that last bit. What's the sort of life envisioned in this planned world economy? All we know is that's it's almost certainly going to be "less" than what we're used to in the imperial west, and that it necessarily must be more than the poverty of the exploited peoples. If we reach to space we merely continue the present system, it's no fix and anyway it will just accelerate our own path to catastrophe. Personally, my goal in the medium term is to get a nicely set up 6.5 creedmore to put some holes in the billionaire escape ships. Let them perish with us in this mud pit they created.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:25
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Funion posted:too many millionaires and billionaires rn imo, gotta thin the herd I am not sure that will cure them from a terminal case of capitalism. Might have to destroy the entire stock and start over.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:28
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u ever read children of time? Pretty cool book
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Jul 16, 2020 21:28
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Cold on a Cob posted:idk, if you don't think deforestation, desertification, and climate change might lead to famine and put a cap on the maximum possible population in the world then you might be in the wrong thread population growth is not responsible for deforestation, desertification and climate change. 
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Jul 16, 2020 21:31
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Smythe posted:u ever read children of time? Pretty cool book 
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Jul 16, 2020 21:32
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my palps are atingle !
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Jul 16, 2020 21:33
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punished milkman posted:yeah the term makes a lot more sense in a mostly undisturbed, isolated theoretical natural environment with populations of like fuckin deer and wolves. https://youtu.be/owI7DOeO_yg
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Jul 16, 2020 21:36
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oxsnard posted:so given that Twitter, almost 24 hours later, has not expanded on what types of data were actually released I'd assume DMs are absolutely in the breach. quote:"If Ivanka [Trump's] account were to tweet the extreme hypothetical, 'I'm so proud of my father tonight for making the hard decisions; nuclear war is never easy, but we'll win it,' that would ... be problematic," said an ex-Twitter employee, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss a former employer. drat, that's some gnar poo poo right there. Problematic is kinda underselling it.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:36
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i’m gonna read the children of time sci-fi spider people book, that sounds wicked. i read a book called a deepness in the sky many years ago that was also about sci-fi spider people and also quite good. strong genre
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Jul 16, 2020 21:39
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Don't think that's going to cut it, champ.
Cry for DeBeers!
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netflix stock -10% on earnings. They basically admit growth has plateaued
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Jul 16, 2020 21:40
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Cup Runneth Over posted:I mean there's definitely a maximum carrying capacity unless you're taking issue with the law of conservation of energy? Yeah, I don't think we are running up against the conversation of energy at this point. If anyone was actually really worried about population growth, they would be pushing education.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:43
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