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PierreTheMime posted:I probably wouldn’t invest any more points into cultists than the minimum, since they exist to hold objectives and die (for chaos!). You should probably consider the two extremes: a 10-cultist unit for hiding behind terrain and holding objectives and a 30-cultist block to throw at things as a distraction. A large block is going to be vulnerable to Blast weapons but the morale losses are waaaaaaay lighter than 8th so they should still go a decent way. There’s also a better chance a large unit will live long enough for you to use the respawn strat. I appreciate the reply, I know I've been peppering this thread with a ton of questions. I have been into Warhammer on and off for years but I haven't really actually played more than a handful of games with some extremely unoptimal armies, so I'm trying to go hard this time!
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Jul 18, 2020 23:00
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I haven't been able to go through much 9th info yet, and have also been leaning on the thread for analysis and answers. I very much appreciate all the good thinking you're all doing. Also will I finally get my Chimeras out of the garage?
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Jul 18, 2020 23:27
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Chimeras are probably not terrible actually. They barely went up in points, and parking them on objectives with dudes inside might be really important this edition. At least with the current mission design, that’s a way to win. Holding objectives and blocking opponents is ultra important. Unfortunately imperial guard in general doesn’t look too great. They have the great vehicles and they benefit a lot from both move and shoot heavy without penalty, as well as being able to shoot in melee. However since everyone will bring the anti-vehicle stuff and guard doesn’t have any invulns, it’s gonna be rough times. I like the idea of a tanks and chimeras list though. For some reason tank commander doesn’t look to have gone up much, but normal tanks have. To the point where they’re almost equal in points and everyone was using commanders only anyway. It’s so silly, I’m assuming I’m missing something.
Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 23:55
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Is there a channel that provides good battle reports cut down to 30-45 minutes? I don't need all the chit-chat, measuring etc.
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Jul 19, 2020 00:03
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Chimeras are probably not terrible actually. They barely went up in points, and parking them on objectives with dudes inside might be really important this edition. At least with the current mission design, that’s a way to win. Holding objectives and blocking opponents is ultra important. Unfortunately imperial guard in general doesn’t look too great. They have the great vehicles and they benefit a lot from both move and shoot heavy without penalty, as well as being able to shoot in melee. However since everyone will bring the anti-vehicle stuff and guard doesn’t have any invulns, it’s gonna be rough times. I like the idea of a tanks and chimeras list though. For some reason tank commander doesn’t look to have gone up much, but normal tanks have. To the point where they’re almost equal in points and everyone was using commanders only anyway. It’s so silly, I’m assuming I’m missing something. The big problem is how easy it is to give away secondaries as Guard. Thin The Ranks or Attrition? Easy pick really with large numbers of weak infantry units. Assassination? 3 points for every character and you have 3 tank commanders (which you need to kill) and at least 1 other relatively easy to kill HQ. Then you have a bunch of vehicles, which I think scores with Bring It Down. I think it will be tough to play as Guard simply because you'll go into a game knowing there's lots of secondaries that you can easily give away, which means you really need to maximise those primaries (and deny them to your opponent) which is where we may see some Chimera usage I guess.
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Jul 19, 2020 00:53
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Sab669 posted:Is there a channel that provides good battle reports cut down to 30-45 minutes? I don't need all the chit-chat, measuring etc. Search for "40k in 40 minutes" on Youtube
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Jul 19, 2020 03:40
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Mikey Purp posted:I was watching a tabletop tactics vid last night where they heavily implied that it was #3. Which I agree seems like a breathtakingly stupid way to approach the new edition but at least there's hope, I guess? Do we really have to wait for another round of codexes before things get back to normal?
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Jul 19, 2020 05:58
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Snail Information posted:Do we really have to wait for another round of codexes before things get back to normal? Taking a crack at this meme thing 
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Jul 19, 2020 06:08
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Pretend i put "refining" in quotation marks like so.
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Jul 19, 2020 06:13
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Far too much credit there.
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Jul 19, 2020 06:15
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Yeah probably
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Jul 19, 2020 06:34
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Snail Information posted:Do we really have to wait for another round of codexes before things get back to normal? Normal like space marines are by far the strongest army with all the best tools? Or normal like the Iron Hands invincible dreadnought? Or normal like the couple of years where apace marines were sort of worthless and not worth playing? There's some sort of promised land in which everything is perfectly balanced and all the codices frolic together in harmony but I don't think I've ever seen it. Arguably these points costs may bring us further from that promised land than immediately prior but this thing is sort of granular. Everything is going to be out of whack for a while and the only thing that will be almost certainly true is the Marine players that make up half the player base will be fine.
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Jul 19, 2020 14:35
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the last time i made an earnest attempt at playing warhams (maybe like 8 years ago, it was at least before i met my wife and 2 kids ago), the constant chatter in this thread was that games workshop is dying, did they die yet/are they still dying? i just picked up that humble bundle and the hunger is coming back, thinking about going to my parents house to grab my old models......especially since i have a spacious basement now
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Jul 19, 2020 16:21
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they just released their best-selling box ever
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Jul 19, 2020 16:24
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John Romero posted:the last time i made an earnest attempt at playing warhams (maybe like 8 years ago, it was at least before i met my wife and 2 kids ago), the constant chatter in this thread was that games workshop is dying, did they die yet/are they still dying? No, they changed some management and it's the opposite now. Train still Choo choo'in
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Jul 19, 2020 16:24
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John Romero posted:the last time i made an earnest attempt at playing warhams (maybe like 8 years ago, it was at least before i met my wife and 2 kids ago), the constant chatter in this thread was that games workshop is dying, did they die yet/are they still dying? Games Workshop's share price has went up about 2000% since December 2011
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Jul 19, 2020 16:38
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John Romero posted:did they die yet/are they still dying? Nope. They’ve had back-to-back-to-back record breaking profits with no sign of slowing down. They a lot better on literally everything from community, to models, to rules, to being chill; than they were 5-10 years ago. They only thing that’s worse is prices. I think only a few things can slow them down at this point is 1) pushing the fans away with unmitigated greed (if they keep raising prices despite record profits, eventually it’ll be too expensive for new people to jump on board). 2) alienating the fan base with their insatiable need for frivolous legal action - this second one might not even be realistic, since a lot of people don’t give a poo poo that their toy provider is being predatorily litigatious but they’ve managed to remove a lot of the stain of being complete shitbags by being pretty cool for a little. Though they still go after a normal guy making plastic wound tokens in his basement if it even remotely looks like their icons or whatever. More likely a third 3) option is them making really bad rules again, which might also make some people leave. They’re in all likely good for years and years even if they started pissing everything away right now.
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Jul 19, 2020 16:41
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Didn't they just rather nicely ask him not to do it and not come waving in with lawyers wielding power suitcases? I recall seeing that being mentioned in this thread or the AoS one at least.
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Jul 19, 2020 16:45
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Nope. They’ve had back-to-back-to-back record breaking profits with no sign of slowing down. They a lot better on literally everything from community, to models, to rules, to being chill; than they were 5-10 years ago. They only thing that’s worse is prices. I think only a few things can slow them down at this point is 1) pushing the fans away with unmitigated greed (if they keep raising prices despite record profits, eventually it’ll be too expensive for new people to jump on board). 2) alienating the fan base with their insatiable need for frivolous legal action - this second one might not even be realistic, since a lot of people don’t give a poo poo that their toy provider is being predatorily litigatious but they’ve managed to remove a lot of the stain of being complete shitbags by being pretty cool for a little. Though they still go after a normal guy making plastic wound tokens in his basement if it even remotely looks like their icons or whatever. More likely a third 3) option is them making really bad rules again, which might also make some people leave. They’re in all likely good for years and years even if they started pissing everything away right now. That's awesome. I was jumping in right when they switched from metal to resin and everyone kept telling me "yeah dude they are crazy assholes". I had noticed a new games workshop opened in my state in the past few years as well. i remember one site you could order from for cheap made you download a spreadsheet and call them to order
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Jul 19, 2020 16:47
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assuming know no fear is the box you all are talking about? interesting. never thought they would put a game mat in, that's some heroclix poo poo. i guess they did change
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Jul 19, 2020 16:51
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Games Workshop's share price has went up about 2000% since December 2011 Didn't they turn down government pandemic stimulus money with "no, we're fine, thanks?"
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Jul 19, 2020 16:57
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John Romero posted:assuming know no fear is the box you all are talking about? interesting. never thought they would put a game mat in, that's some heroclix poo poo. i guess they did change Know No Fear was about 3 years ago. The box we're talking about is called Indomitus. It has about twice the models as Know No Fear (Space Marines and Necrons this time vs Space Marines and Death Guard) and the new 9th edition rulebook. Dawgstar posted:Didn't they turn down government pandemic stimulus money with "no, we're fine, thanks?" Yeah I'm pretty sure they received it and then returned it.
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Jul 19, 2020 17:00
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Dawgstar posted:Didn't they turn down government pandemic stimulus money with "no, we're fine, thanks?" They paid it back when they were offered it... mostly because there's a bunch of legal ramifications if they'd kept it, it was less of a altruistic move than a lot of nerds made it out to be.
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Jul 19, 2020 18:26
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Man there's so many units I kind of want to buy to bolster my armies a bit in 9th. My Guard for sure need a Wyvern because 100ish points to get 24 shots re-rolling wounds re-rolling 1s to hit against big units is too good to pass up. I think I also need to finally give in and buy some Bullgryns, I know they were awesome in 8th but I think if I want to stand a chance of winning in 9th I need a unit that can sit on objectives and not die to shooting or close combat, as you can't just launch Guardsmen up the board at the last minute. Luckily I own a bunch of Chimeras and Hellhounds which I think will potentially be very good, and I also own a Hellhammer which I think is possibly the best super heavy if the weapon wording is updated to ignore benefits to cover rather than just improved armour saves. For the Grey Knights I actually think I have everything I want, though I am tempted to get a Land Raider Redeemer or Crusader.
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Jul 19, 2020 18:42
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OK I finally settled on my army... and nowhere online has any Death Guard in stock  And obviously at this point anything from Dark Imperium is getting hard to find for a fair price too. gently caress.
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Jul 19, 2020 22:35
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Sab669 posted:OK I finally settled on my army... and nowhere online has any Death Guard in stock Yeah that's some bad timing right there.
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Jul 19, 2020 22:49
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You should still be able to find Know No Fear boxes lying around in places and if eBay doesn't have good prices on DG Dark Imperium halves then you can always wait for the inevitable Start Collecting box. DI is the only source of a Noxious Blightcaller model though which is rough (and a good reason to assume a Start Collecting box would just be the DG half of DI).Kitchner posted:Normal like space marines are by far the strongest army with all the best tools? Or normal like the Iron Hands invincible dreadnought? Or normal like the couple of years where apace marines were sort of worthless and not worth playing? According to playtester youtubers 9E was tested with all the Codex rules and points and is quite good but that's an unprovable statement at this point and sounds suspiciously like "it'll get better I promise"
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Jul 19, 2020 23:46
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Oh nice call, I was not aware of that set. Yea I found a few reasonably priced copies of that - sweet.
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Jul 19, 2020 23:59
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Eej posted:According to playtester youtubers 9E was tested with all the Codex rules and points and is quite good but that's an unprovable statement at this point and sounds suspiciously like "it'll get better I promise" Yeah I said earlier I have my doubts about this because some of the changes I really can't see how they'd make sense without something super radical. The example I used is why does a grenade launcher cost the same as a plasma gun for a guardsman? A grenade launcher just objectively isn't worth, even if it does have the blast for the frag grenade. I'm also not convinced as to how a Gretchin can cost the same as a Guardsman, but maybe Gretchin will get some crazy rule that boosts them. I hope I'm wrong and there's some master stroke coming where GW has actually been working on loads of codices in secret and they will be released all together in December or something, but I'm a bit sceptical about it all.
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Jul 20, 2020 00:41
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Kitchner posted:Yeah I said earlier I have my doubts about this because some of the changes I really can't see how they'd make sense without something super radical. The example I used is why does a grenade launcher cost the same as a plasma gun for a guardsman? A grenade launcher just objectively isn't worth, even if it does have the blast for the frag grenade. I'm also not convinced as to how a Gretchin can cost the same as a Guardsman, but maybe Gretchin will get some crazy rule that boosts them. *Looks at his favorite Genestealer Cult models* ...yeah. 
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Jul 20, 2020 00:42
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GSC feel like the new Dark Eldar, when I was last playing they were just abandoned for a long time and not competitive in the slightest. Yet there was still at least one guy in my club who refused to stop playing them mostly to spite GW I reckon.
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Jul 20, 2020 00:46
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Do they charge up front for the Indomitous box or is it a bill when they ship like Amazon? Unrelated: What do you guys consider the must have paints to be?
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Jul 20, 2020 01:03
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It depends entirely on what you're going to be painting but agrax earthshade.
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Jul 20, 2020 01:47
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Nuln Oil and Agrax Earthshade, and Der Waffle Mous is probably correct that Agrax Earthshade is the more essential of the two, as more things that maybe ought to be washed black look almost as good washed brown than ought to be washed brown but look almost as good washed black.
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Jul 20, 2020 02:05
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Red, Yellow, Blue, Black, White, and then nuln oil and agrax earthshade IMO. You can make whatever your want from there.
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Jul 20, 2020 02:19
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^burtle posted:Do they charge up front for the Indomitous box or is it a bill when they ship like Amazon? The preorder is upfront because they're doing it made-to-order
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Jul 20, 2020 02:24
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Sab669 posted:Red, Yellow, Blue, Black, White, and then nuln oil and agrax earthshade IMO. This and wet palette Sab669 posted:Red, Yellow, Blue, Black, White, and then nuln oil and agrax earthshade IMO. This plus wet palette. It’s hard to get a consistent mix going if your paints dry on a standard palette. I’d add a utility brown and skin tone (one can cover both) and a dark metal like lead belcher.
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Jul 20, 2020 03:57
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Did GW move away from resin models? Last time I was dabbling with hobbystuff they had a resin line, I think called Finecast, and I did not care for them that much.
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Jul 20, 2020 04:02
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I have been scouring the net for pre-release rules but cannot find any rule that says you can't deepstrike on the first turn. I know this was a rule specific to matched play in 8th, and presumably may be again in 9th..but have we seen it written down anywhere?
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Jul 20, 2020 04:05
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Serdain posted:I have been scouring the net for pre-release rules but cannot find any rule that says you can't deepstrike on the first turn. Yes. In the matched play rules.
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Jul 20, 2020 04:07
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