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I hate that that's unironically the best option just because no dependency management -> no one is going to write stuff that uses a lot of libraries.
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Jul 20, 2020 01:02
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Vanadium posted:does maven tell my garbage debian vps which libssl.so i need you tell it which version of A Thing you want, and it’s brought to you is this what you meant?
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Jul 20, 2020 01:34
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afaict nixos works best when the build tool doesn't actually hit the network ever, which means that any build tool that's not meant for nixos and is going to go fetch deps is going to be a pain in the rear end for it. Whenever nixos goes mainstream and everyone shift I'm sure it'll be worth build tools not hitting the network again.
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Jul 20, 2020 01:51
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Boiled Water posted:you tell it which version of A Thing you want, and it’s brought to you Can I just say "hey i want this twitter api client lib" and it will figure out that that means I need some libssl.so because the twitter api client lib wants to make https requests and that involves tls and that's provided by openssl, and then it knows how to get the right openssl on debian or wherever, or do I need some weird incantations to teach it how that works?
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Jul 20, 2020 02:01
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Vanadium posted:I hate that that's unironically the best option just because no dependency management -> no one is going to write stuff that uses a lot of libraries. it actually means that every large project has its own bespoke way of handling dependencies that boils down to either vendoring poo poo or telling you to go gently caress yourself if you want to build it
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Jul 20, 2020 02:41
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Vanadium posted:no one is going to write stuff that uses a lot of libraries. darn
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Jul 20, 2020 03:35
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Plorkyeran posted:it actually means that every large project has its own bespoke way of handling dependencies that boils down to either vendoring poo poo or telling you to go gently caress yourself if you want to build it I’m unsurprised by that when the large project is funded by a large corporation because in most cases the common build tools are handled by the community and large corporations take whatever they want without ever contributing back to the broader community (the big project is usually part of hiring marketing efforts, devrel, or some attempt to get free labour). They then half rear end publishing poo poo that they use their own internal tooling to make work internally by adding some lovely patchwork for the open aspect of it. most large open projects not fitting that pattern pre-date standard tooling for their ecosystem and never made the switch as their community is mostly self-selected and isolated from the rest of the devs there.
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Jul 20, 2020 03:53
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Vanadium posted:Can I just say "hey i want this twitter api client lib" and it will figure out that that means I need some libssl.so because the twitter api client lib wants to make https requests and that involves tls and that's provided by openssl, and then it knows how to get the right openssl on debian or wherever, or do I need some weird incantations to teach it how that works? good news, this exists and is available at https://www.npmjs.com/
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Jul 20, 2020 04:26
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animist posted:good news, this exists and is available at https://www.npmjs.com/ if they compile their own openssl with a build system written in javascript im going to scream
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Jul 20, 2020 04:53
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No, node requires openssl.
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Jul 20, 2020 04:56
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oh i guess that makes sense. still pretty sure ive seen some js stuff compile C code during "installation" and thats just wrong
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Jul 20, 2020 05:08
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is the author of corejs still looking for a job? i haven't built any js lately so i'm not sure
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Jul 20, 2020 05:09
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carry on then posted:is the author of corejs still looking for a job? i haven't built any js lately so i'm not sure he's in jail for a year and a half for hitting a pedestrian with a car. i believe his defense was that said pedestrian was laying down in the street drunk babel team doesn't have resources for a fork supposedly. there's new maintainers but i don't think they're super active it's all very fine Vanadium posted:oh i guess that makes sense. still pretty sure ive seen some js stuff compile C code during "installation" it's fine? using native dependencies in plang packages can go very, very awry in other languages (hi nokogiri) but I've never had an issue with node packages. a lot of node packages just straight up install a binary for a given platform as well it's bad for disk space but eh abraham linksys fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jul 20, 2020 |
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Jul 20, 2020 05:20
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node based builds suck and I hate having to update dependencies in every single sample project because github is screaming bloody murder that one of the 1100 dev dependencies has a vulnerability if used in a running server
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Jul 20, 2020 05:26
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abraham linksys posted:he's in jail for a year and a half for hitting a pedestrian with a car. i believe his defense was that said pedestrian was laying down in the street drunk lmao what is it with open source developers and committing heinous crimes 
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Jul 20, 2020 06:58
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Vanadium posted:Can I just say "hey i want this twitter api client lib" and it will figure out that that means I need some libssl.so because the twitter api client lib wants to make https requests and that involves tls and that's provided by openssl, and then it knows how to get the right openssl on debian or wherever, or do I need some weird incantations to teach it how that works? afaik yes but it seems simple enough to try out
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Jul 20, 2020 08:24
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just bundle up all the dependencies in a single binary blob ala smalltalk soblem provled
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Jul 20, 2020 16:15
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Jerry Bindle posted:just bundle up all the dependencies in a single binary blob ala smalltalk soblem provled we call this an oci-compliant container image now
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Jul 20, 2020 16:25
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animist posted:lmao garph probed me over posting that once lol
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Jul 20, 2020 16:26
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eler was great. its too bad the "invisible hand" line from it didn't catch on
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Jul 20, 2020 17:24
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wild to think there was a time when a) ubuntu did not have its monopoly b) people cared enough about xml to refer to it in jokes
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Jul 20, 2020 17:44
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a mechanical hand-cranked xml parser sounds pretty nifty. though idk what it would give as output, maybe it'd just be a validator
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Jul 20, 2020 17:49
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pokeyman posted:a mechanical hand-cranked xml parser sounds pretty nifty. though idk what it would give as output, maybe it'd just be a validator my external entity is expanded, iykwim
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Jul 20, 2020 18:14
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all this talk about dependency management and here i am just reinventing the wheel instead ps: the wheel is now square, your welcome
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Jul 21, 2020 19:39
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at least your square wheel still deploys when npm goes down
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Jul 22, 2020 00:53
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Vanadium posted:Can I just say "hey i want this twitter api client lib" and it will figure out that that means I need some libssl.so [...] and then it knows how to get the right openssl a good package manager will utterly prevent you from installing OpenSSL, or indeed the components that you could combine to build it
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Jul 22, 2020 04:14
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https://twitter.com/zachtronics/status/1285686716934881286?s=21
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Jul 22, 2020 04:14
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I never finished tis-100 because that arch is a pain
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Jul 22, 2020 04:53
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brand engager posted:I never finished tis-100 because that arch is a pain I wonder how hard it would be to implement in verilog for whenever the analogue pocket comes out.
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Jul 22, 2020 10:44
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leper khan posted:I wonder how hard it would be to implement in verilog for whenever the analogue pocket comes out. i don't have any idea what "the analogue pocket" is and have never played this game that said, as someone whose job it is to write verilog rtl, after watching a scott manley video about tis-100, i'd say it wouldn't be too hard. it does sound like as the game progresses you start unlocking tiles which aren't cpus, so if those get too wild it might sway my opinion, but the basic NxN matrix of incredibly trivial CPU cores with very simple grid comms (for small values of N) would not be hard i'm not sure why you would want to, but that's an entirely different question lol
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Jul 23, 2020 09:48
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i assume they mean this looks pretty spiffy, honestly
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Jul 23, 2020 22:26
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Internet Janitor posted:i assume they mean this the renders do look super cool but $200 seems like a far-too-good-to-be-true price for a low volume handheld with one cyclone V and one cyclone 10 fpga, that screen, sound, etc for reference i just looked up qty 1 cyclone V prices on digikey and the cheapest is $80. granted you can get much better prices with volume but the stuff i googled suggests they aren't expecting to sell a hell of a lot of them also have questions about how much battery life one could expect but it sounds like this is a company that has made real product(s) before? that were also fpga based retro gaming systems? so maybe not a total scam? anyways, revised comments on rewriting tis-100 in verilog: if the goal was to get the whole game running on this hardware, and you asked me to do it, i wouldn't write a single line of verilog if i could get away with it. ideally analogue would supply a pre-built fpga image set which implements a cpu + graphics + sound. i would port the game to that software platform rather than rewriting the game in verilog. if analogue did not provide such a platform, i'd create one and then port the game. it would still be less effort. most of the pieces for it would be IP cores I could stitch together from the thing about doing anything as complex as an entire game in verilog is that writing and debugging synthesizable verilog is a loving NIGHTMARE compared to writing and debugging software. if you don't have a strong performance requirement for some complex thing you want to do, and you can throw in a soft cpu core (or the fpga already has a hardened cpu core), you do it in software.
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Jul 24, 2020 03:59
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fpgas are rad as hell and hdls and related tools all suck poo poo
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Jul 24, 2020 04:49
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Bloody posted:fpgas are rad as hell and hdls and related tools all suck poo poo do u have an opinion on stuff like chisel i have only dabbled in hdl so i'm not sure how to evaluate stuff
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Jul 24, 2020 21:26
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oh hey it’s Clash but with Scala instead of Haskell
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Jul 26, 2020 05:44
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I've never seen anyone actually use one of the newer HDL built on a software PL for a real project, but I'm excited for something, anything, better than VHDL and Verilog to get any amount of traction.
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Jul 28, 2020 21:27
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Symbolics created an HDL that they used for both the later 3600 series designs and the two major revs of their Ivory CPU, by all accounts it was quite good they claimed in the late 1980s that the Ivory was fully simulated and its logic debugged before the first silicon was produced my understanding is also that it didn’t impose much distinction between layers of design, I gather it started life as a logical schematic description tool and expanded both up and down from there
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Jul 28, 2020 22:39
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i can't imagine an HDL based in common lisp is any more pleasant to use than verilog
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Jul 28, 2020 23:32
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Jerry Bindle posted:i can't imagine an HDL based in common lisp is any more pleasant to use than verilog i am honestly perplexed why you'd be especially doubtful. not that cl is some panacea, but it does not seem that hard to improve on verilog, and starting from a language with excellent macro facilities seems a good plan?
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Jul 28, 2020 23:35
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i learned BlueSpec in school and that was extremely weird inheriting the strange design choices of both haskell and verilog, lmao
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Jul 28, 2020 23:50
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