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Women aren't allowed to have the A-V system because they can't show infinite shots of them shirtless.
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Jul 20, 2020 23:04
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Jul 20, 2020 23:37
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Cao Ni Ma posted:She should have gone through it 40 percent chance of being paralyzed for life so Tekkadan could get another Ride-tier (at best) pilot. When they only had 2 Mobile Suits. It's risking a unique high value asset to gain a low value one. Which is part of why Kudelia decided against it. She should do what only she can do, because Mika's going to be handling murder machine duties either way. It's not like Julieta, where you've got an ace pilot with political utility on top. This is more like Hush, but if Hush could have been useful instead.
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Jul 20, 2020 23:54
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ImpAtom posted:Women aren't allowed to have the A-V system because they can't show infinite shots of them shirtless. This seems like a surmountable challenge, but also: Shinjobi posted:Actually the correct answer is no one should have gone through it Orga told her off for thinking it was a good idea when Mika was getting ready to fight Crank. Pretty much everyone except brainworms cases like Hush and kids who don't know any better think it's a bad idea.
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Jul 20, 2020 23:57
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Jul 21, 2020 00:08
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ImpAtom posted:"Gundam Wing has one of the most well-rounded and respected group of women in the entirety of Gundam" is absolutely a phrase you can unironically say which I think says a lot.
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Jul 21, 2020 00:13
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Hey. Duo... does... something. At some point. Endorph posted:I think Wing is legitimately good in this regard even by the standards of most fiction tbh. Like it's not a towering monument to feminism but it clearly thinks women can be brave, dynamic, and important. Its only real issues are how Noin is handled at the end (just kinda stands around while Zechs decides to suicide himself) and a few random comments from Wufei and Trowa that are easily brushed off as just the characters and not something the show itself agrees with. Like so much of the back half of the show is defined by Relena and Dorothy's back and forth, and Relena gets more screentime than some Gundam series entire female cast put together. Yeah, I honestly wasn't joking there. Wing is bugshit insane but it's bugshit insane in a way that encompasses all the characters and ends up creating interesting dynamics that really don't exist elsewhere in Gundam. Like Relena vs Dorothy is the sort of thing you really don't see elsewhere.
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Jul 21, 2020 00:35
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Endorph posted:I think Wing is legitimately good in this regard even by the standards of most fiction tbh. Like it's not a towering monument to feminism but it clearly thinks women can be brave, dynamic, and important. Its only real issues are how Noin is handled at the end (just kinda stands around while Zechs decides to suicide himself) and a few random comments from Wufei and Trowa that are easily brushed off as just the characters and not something the show itself agrees with. Like so much of the back half of the show is defined by Relena and Dorothy's back and forth, and Relena gets more screentime than some Gundam series entire female cast put together. There's also the bit where Une develops split personalities and disassociates from falling in love with Treize that thankfully lasts about five minutes but is still really weird and bad.
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Jul 21, 2020 00:42
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I honestly wasn't joking there. Wing is bugshit insane but it's bugshit insane in a way that encompasses all the characters and ends up creating interesting dynamics that really don't exist elsewhere in Gundam. Like Relena vs Dorothy is the sort of thing you really don't see elsewhere. Wing is equal opportunity insane.
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Jul 21, 2020 01:04
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gourdcaptain posted:There's also the bit where Une develops split personalities and disassociates from falling in love with Treize that thankfully lasts about five minutes but is still really weird and bad. i always got the impression she always had the split personalities and treize was just manipulating them but who can tell
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Jul 21, 2020 01:12
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My memory of Une (though it may be mistaken) is that there was Lady Une The Soldier and then she had to play-act Lady Une The Pacifistic Politician and having to constantly try to hold two different opposing viewpoints caused her to go something something.
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Jul 21, 2020 01:59
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The crack for Une's personalities basically starts when Trieze tells her, through Noin, that she needs to be more "elegant" after she treatens to nuke or colony drop a colony in order to unmask the Gundam pilots and Heero self distructs. I've always read her split as being there from the beginning and Treize just manipulated it for his own ends, like he does with Zechs (who is in on it, to a degree depending on if you''re going by the TV series or Glory of Losers) and OZ/Romefeller. Like lowkey, Treize is one of the most underhanded Gundam antagonists but since he's not out there giving a ton of speeches or murdering the good guys it can get missed. He and Scirocco would get on good imo.
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Jul 21, 2020 02:54
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Endorph posted:i always got the impression she always had the split personalities and treize was just manipulating them but who can tell I meant it was about five episodes from the reveal to the audience that peaceful Une exists (it's like fifteen or so episodes before she shows up) to when she achieves Perfect Une.
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Jul 21, 2020 04:18
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Tulalip Tulips posted:The crack for Une's personalities basically starts when Trieze tells her, through Noin, that she needs to be more "elegant" after she treatens to nuke or colony drop a colony in order to unmask the Gundam pilots and Heero self distructs. I've always read her split as being there from the beginning and Treize just manipulated it for his own ends, like he does with Zechs (who is in on it, to a degree depending on if you''re going by the TV series or Glory of Losers) and OZ/Romefeller. Like lowkey, Treize is one of the most underhanded Gundam antagonists but since he's not out there giving a ton of speeches or murdering the good guys it can get missed. He and Scirocco would get on good imo. Nah. Trieze's whole thing is loving the whole noble soldier bit, people of passionate beliefs who reshape the world even when they fail and die. Paptimus is all about detachment, with no attachment to the cogs in his machine. To put it in the simplest terms, Paptimus would totally go in for Mobile Dolls, while Trieze would have nothing but compliments for Kamille.
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Jul 21, 2020 04:34
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Warmachine posted:Pretty much everyone except brainworms cases like Hush and kids who don't know any better think it's a bad idea. To kids who have nothing and are nothing, getting the ability to pilot a giant robot and gently caress people you don't like up in exchange for maybe dying would seem like a pretty good deal, yeah.
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Jul 21, 2020 08:46
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Lemon-Lime posted:To kids who have nothing and are nothing, getting the ability to pilot a giant robot and gently caress people you don't like up in exchange for maybe dying would seem like a pretty good deal, yeah. iirc, didn't they not have a choice in the matter? They were Human Debris, and were forced to undergo the surgery because orphan kids are cheap, plentiful, and even if they got hosed up by the procedure there's still hundreds more kids to operate on and get disposable soldiers from.
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Jul 21, 2020 09:49
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Neddy Seagoon posted:iirc, didn't they not have a choice in the matter? They were Human Debris, and were forced to undergo the surgery because orphan kids are cheap, plentiful, and even if they got hosed up by the procedure there's still hundreds more kids to operate on and get disposable soldiers from. Depends who we're talking. Akihiro, Chad, Dante, and the Brewers kids were all Human Debris, but most of Tekkadan wasn't. Mika, Orga, Eugene, and anyone else without a red stripe was a paid employee. It's just that work was hard enough to come by on Mars (especially season 1 Mars) that crippling surgery was a promising option. 60 percent odds of 3 hots and a cot beat 100 percent odds of starving in the streets. It wasn't good money, exactly, especially not for the risks you'd be taking, but it was enough to live on, and maybe send some money to your family. (Takaki made enough to put his sister through school, Biscuit helped make up for the farm troubles, that kind of thing.) Easy to see why they got enough applicants they didn't need to worry too much about the washout rate.
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Jul 21, 2020 10:16
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Endorph posted:Its only real issues are how Noin is handled at the end (just kinda stands around while Zechs decides to suicide himself) She doesn't just stand around while he suicides himself, she actively chooses to support him no matter what he'll do while aware he wants to start a huge war, because being with him is more important than her own morals. Which is far from the only time she does anything like that anyway. The first thing we find out about Noin is Zechs musing that she purposefully held back in pilot training so he'd come out top of the class, and the first thing Noin herself does is recount the exact number of days it's been since they met in a manner that makes her look extremely desperate for his attention. She also states at least once in the show that she's helping Relena because she thinks it's what Zechs would want i.e. not because she herself has any investment in doing so. Which she may have had, but which she also makes clear is secondary to her, because she would drop everything and anything if Zechs told her to, or even if he didn't and she just thought he'd like her to do so for whatever reason. Noin is a terrible character, with no agency of her own and I've no idea why anyone would like her. There's been a good bit of praise for Dorothy and Relena here, and while I can't refute any of that since I don't remember most of Wing well enough to do so, what I would say is that I'm not convinced any of it was intentionally crafted to be what people like going off how awful Noin, and to a slightly lesser degree, Une are. tsob fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Jul 21, 2020 |
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Jul 21, 2020 11:28
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chiasaur11 posted:Depends who we're talking. Akihiro, Chad, Dante, and the Brewers kids were all Human Debris, but most of Tekkadan wasn't. Ahh, that's right  . Been a minute since I've seen IBO.
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Jul 21, 2020 11:32
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Reminder that Lady is not Une's title, it is her first name.
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Jul 21, 2020 12:49
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tsob posted:She doesn't just stand around while he suicides himself, she actively chooses to support him no matter what he'll do while aware he wants to start a huge war, because being with him is more important than her own morals. Which is far from the only time she does anything like that anyway. The first thing we find out about Noin is Zechs musing that she purposefully held back in pilot training so he'd come out top of the class, and the first thing Noin herself does is recount the exact number of days it's been since they met in a manner that makes her look extremely desperate for his attention. She also states at least once in the show that she's helping Relena because she thinks it's what Zechs would want i.e. not because she herself has any investment in doing so. Which she may have had, but which she also makes clear is secondary to her, because she would drop everything and anything if Zechs told her to, or even if he didn't and she just thought he'd like her to do so for whatever reason. Noin is a terrible character, with no agency of her own and I've no idea why anyone would like her. I mean, any positive takeaways from Wing's cast, man or woman, is most likely a happy accident. If anything Noin is exactly what I'd expect from the character work on Wing.
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Jul 21, 2020 15:29
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Onmi posted:Reminder that Lady is not Une's title, it is her first name. I thought it was Middie according to the Ep Zero manga. Or maybe I'm misremembering something I haven't read in 15 years.
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Jul 21, 2020 17:49
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Warmachine posted:I thought it was Middie according to the Ep Zero manga. Or maybe I'm misremembering something I haven't read in 15 years. You aren't misremembering so much as you're making a connection that was never confirmed. The character that appears in Episode Zero is indeed Une in last name, but it's never confirmed if she's Lady Une, or if she has any connection to her.
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Jul 21, 2020 18:13
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tsob posted:. Noin is a terrible character, with no agency of her own and I've no idea why anyone would like her. This poo poo is pretty much exactly what i mean when i say 'feminist' critiques of female characters that mostly just make women feel gross, lol. Like you self admittedly dont remember the show but you still felt the need to stomp in with 'actually thinking the side lady who has pants and a cool haircut is cool, is a crime'. Like you can say that you dont like certain elements of her character or some random backstory lines without going off the rails Endorph fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jul 21, 2020 |
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Jul 21, 2020 18:26
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Also lol at 'actually everything good about it was a mistake!!! Stop liking wing!! Stop liking wing!!!'
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Jul 21, 2020 18:38
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She certainly is a good shot.
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Jul 21, 2020 18:40
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tsob posted:She doesn't just stand around while he suicides himself, she actively chooses to support him no matter what he'll do while aware he wants to start a huge war, because being with him is more important than her own morals. Which is far from the only time she does anything like that anyway. The first thing we find out about Noin is Zechs musing that she purposefully held back in pilot training so he'd come out top of the class, and the first thing Noin herself does is recount the exact number of days it's been since they met in a manner that makes her look extremely desperate for his attention. She also states at least once in the show that she's helping Relena because she thinks it's what Zechs would want i.e. not because she herself has any investment in doing so. Which she may have had, but which she also makes clear is secondary to her, because she would drop everything and anything if Zechs told her to, or even if he didn't and she just thought he'd like her to do so for whatever reason. Noin is a terrible character, with no agency of her own and I've no idea why anyone would like her. When I was first learning about media criticism, I was taught bad representation isn't so much a thing as diverse representation is the goal. If you want a female character who is utterly co-dependent, fine. If you want one who is incredibly promiscuous, also fine. Just don't make all women like that. That's how life is. Having a Camp Gay character isn't a problem in itself, it's just when the only homosexual in your work is camp that it's bad because it reinforces the idea all homosexuals are like that. Noin isn't a problem for me because that's just Noin. Women like Noin exist in the real world. Relena, Dorothy, Sally, etc.. all exist and are nothing even remotely like Noin. So Noin's problems are her own, not something the show wants us to think about women and so I don't see it as a problematic flaw.
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Jul 21, 2020 18:40
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noin is super cool I want to be like noin
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Jul 21, 2020 18:41
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Imo the most sexist thing to happen in a gundam is definitely lunamaria missing that battleship
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Jul 21, 2020 18:42
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im pretty sure it's when aida cried that one time after her lover died
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Jul 21, 2020 18:44
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everythingWasBees posted:im pretty sure it's when aida cried that one time after her lover died Because she wasnt story relevant Because he picked the male protag
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Jul 21, 2020 18:46
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https://twitter.com/NozomiEnt/status/1285628940636303361?s=20
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Jul 21, 2020 18:48
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Endorph posted:Ill never fotget the time that same guy who was weird about greco wokely called the female lead of srwv 'a walking pair of tits' chitose rules though? soji is cool too even though he's not very story relevant because I picked the female protagonist
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Jul 21, 2020 18:49
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Retail Price: $74.99 who the actual hell is the intended audience for this im saying as somebody who liked divers
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Jul 21, 2020 18:51
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everythingWasBees posted:Retail Price: $74.99
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Jul 21, 2020 18:52
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Endorph posted:Thats actually kinda cheap. Anime blurays are expensive I thought the prices were usually more reasonable over here I'm pretty sure I got G-Reco for like 15 bucks
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Jul 21, 2020 18:52
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everythingWasBees posted:I thought the prices were usually more reasonable over here
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Jul 21, 2020 18:53
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Endorph posted:Thats because nobody wants greco nobody wants divers either!
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Jul 21, 2020 18:53
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i mean divers is still better than zeta tbh but zeta should be like $20 tops
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Jul 21, 2020 18:54
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zeta's primary distribution method should be aired for free on the gundam.info YouTube channel
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Jul 21, 2020 18:55
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