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Freakie posted:How come? I'm a bit biased as it's one of my favorite games, but I think it works well as a co-op game. As a coop game it's not great because it relies heavily on extremely random and arbitrary card outcomes to paper over a very dull action economy. It's very lacking compared to e.g. Pandemic which both has a much higher tension action economy at its core and sources of randomization that have a much better balance between known and unknown quantities. It's popular with Betrayal players who want a game where ~*~AnYtHiNg CaN hApPeN~*~ but with that sort of design there's no guarantee that what happens will be interesting or relevant and it's certainly not going to be balanced or useful for fostering any kind of long term planning or strategy.
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Jul 23, 2020 16:18
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DoW also has the arbitrary personal goals which are all over the place from trivial to impossible depending on setup and scenario. It’s also narratively disjointed to the point of comedy (and not in a good way). It can be a good game if the stars align, but will mostly end up a random mess of frustration if you take the game seriously.
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Jul 23, 2020 16:29
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I like it as a chill coop that I don't have to think about too hard. I think the traitor mechanic is really poorly done though.
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Jul 23, 2020 16:39
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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We already have Marvel Champions, but we've touched it so little I forgot about it, which is a shame since I picked it up with Thor, Captain America, Ms. Marvel, Wrecking Crew, and Green Goblin; I think I've played it more solo than anything else, just because she isn't a fan of THAT kind of deckbuilding. Like we tried Netrunner and it was a big 'nah' for her. A buddy of mine is the reason I started collecting Legendary (and at this point I'm only short a handful of expansions) but he hated how limited Champions felt in comparison and how he couldn't just go 'yeah I wanna be Thor now' without having to construct a deck for him, and I kinda get where he's coming from. and I think that's why she dislikes it too. We also have Big Book of Madness but it's not brought out as often as Legendary, and we have Mansions of Madness but it's viewed as a 'we start this at 6 and finish at 10' kinda game due to the tiles and having a kid. I did pick up X-COM last week and she enjoyed it, but expressed she'd like to play it with more people to spread the roles around. I've played Imperial Assault but it's more player vs DM than actual co-op, unless they ever came out with an app for it, but it's certainly a game I've wanted to get again. She loves Star Wars and we've been trying to convince our D&D group to try EotE, so this might be a good middle ground. Llyranor posted:I feel like having to go from Spirit Island to Pandemic would be a massive disappointment for me. Yeah this is sorta where we are, Spirit Island gets picked basically every night we decide to sit down and play a game. If I've ordered a new game, we'll try it out, but more often than not it gets a night or two of play and then we wanna try more Spirit Island. I've never really paid attention to Aeon's End but I'm gonna look into it. We used to play Warhammer Quest a lot but got burned out on it, even with fanmade stuff to pad it out, so the Legacy version with a fantasy campaign to it sounds like we might enjoy that. I've got 30 dollars off from a FLGS' rewards system and they have Imperial Assault in stock so I might nab that and pester some of our friends to pretend to be wookiees. Thanks for the suggestions so far!
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Jul 23, 2020 17:12
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Good co-ops: The Crew - imo only shines at 4 or 5 The grizzled - very tough and provides a very sobering narrative A quiet year - engaging storytelling and drawing game, more of an RPG than a board game admittedly Dungeon degenerates - amazing art, narrative, and universe but core gameplay loop is a touch dull
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Jul 23, 2020 17:27
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The Crew is still good at 3, but probably better at more.
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Jul 23, 2020 17:35
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John Dyne posted:We also have Big Book of Madness but it's not brought out as often as Legendary, and we have Mansions of Madness but it's viewed as a 'we start this at 6 and finish at 10' kinda game due to the tiles and having a kid....Yeah this is sorta where we are, Spirit Island gets picked basically every night we decide to sit down and play a game. If I've ordered a new game, we'll try it out, but more often than not it gets a night or two of play and then we wanna try more Spirit Island. Has someone already suggested Pandemic Legacy (probably Season 1 to start)? I can't be bothered to play regular Pandemic (or any of the other versions I've tried; they're all fine but not terribly engaging)... but the Legacy ones really sucked us in. We ended up accelerating our gaming sessions quite a bit (we played Season 1 with another couple, Season 2 I played with my work gaming group), and then spending a bunch of time in between sessions talking about it. quote:The Crew is still good at 3, but probably better at more. Yeah - I think it's fine with 3, but it is also a lot easier. For us this is fine, as we play with 2 adults and a kid, so easier is a feature. But with 3 adults I'd suggest feeling free to skip over some early missions and get towards harder content.
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Jul 23, 2020 17:41
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Straight White Shark posted:As a coop game it's not great because it relies heavily on extremely random and arbitrary card outcomes to paper over a very dull action economy. That's fair enough. I don't quite agree regarding Pandemic, but maybe I just haven't had very interesting games with it yet. Also, The Mind is a pretty fun (if tense) game where you have to trust each other, but I don't know to what degree it counts as a "coop" game.
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Jul 23, 2020 18:30
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Burgle Brooosssss
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Jul 23, 2020 18:41
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Is there a smaller version of Archipelago for 2 players that mixes exploration with euro-style mechanics? I realize after picking up Through the Ages that the Civ: New Dawn board game has the exploration tiles. I never looked into Robinson Crusoe, but that looks quite complex (in a good way).
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Jul 23, 2020 18:43
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tokenbrownguy posted:Burgle Brooosssss I tried this on Tabletopia early in the Pandemic and am hoping to find the chance to do it again. It's a wee bit complicated but once you understand it it's pretty nice.
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Jul 23, 2020 22:00
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Shes Not Impressed posted:Is there a smaller version of Archipelago for 2 players that mixes exploration with euro-style mechanics? if you're gonna look into robinson crusoe, make sure you're looking at the 2016 edition of it, the original has, shall we say, a loving garbage trash awful poo poo rulebook that the 2016 version fixed
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Jul 23, 2020 22:12
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and note that the fixed rulebook doesn't fix the broken game design 
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Jul 23, 2020 22:24
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i like to reread that vlaada chvatil centric article about him reviewing ignacy's game design from time to time and note what still made it into the game
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Jul 23, 2020 22:53
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Shes Not Impressed posted:I never looked into Robinson Crusoe, but that looks quite complex (in a good way). I only played Robinson Crusoe a couple of times, and it was before the 2016 edition so I can't even say with confidence that I played it correctly, but the game's a bad co-op since so much of it comes down to random luck. Your choices largely don't matter in the face of the dice rolls, event decks, etc. It's dumb and bad, like most of Ignacy's games (I think 51st State is alright and yet somehow made worse in Imperial Settlers).
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Jul 23, 2020 23:01
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I'm waaayyyy in the minority but I liked quite a few things about Robinson Crusoe. But the (first edition) rulebook was one of the very worst I have ever read. There's a comic-book style illustrated rulebook online that makes like a million times more sense. It's definitely kind of a drowning simulator, but also a "have an adventure" and "see what happens next" mixed with "ah dang, I should have..." one and some people respond to that. e: For anyone who has not played, the core gameplay loop is basically this (though not necessarily in this order): - Choose to do things during the day. Two effort tokens guarantees success. One effort token means success (usually) but also draw a card which is almost always bad. A card might say you injure yourself, for example. You can't guarantee success for everything because you won't get enough done. - An impending event pops off and another enters the pipeline - Weather worsens as time passes (hunger, cold) - Animals maybe come sniffing around at night I especially like the first-in-first-out events system, because you always know what's coming and what's in the pipeline. Events always therefore don't pop off without you having a chance (in theory anyway) to do something about them first. The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 23:28
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The random suffering aspect seems bad. I forgot about Trajan actually which is another big bundle of mechanics. I've always wanted to play it since SU&SD reviewed it ages ago.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:29
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Shes Not Impressed posted:The random suffering aspect seems bad. Trajan is my favorite Feld. It's all about timing and tempo and snatching stuff at exactly the right time.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:57
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Every Feld Game You Like is Bad. (Yes, even that one)
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Jul 24, 2020 00:38
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ketchup vs catsup posted:Every Feld Game You Like is Bad. Carpe Diem is worth it just for the cover 
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Jul 24, 2020 01:02
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ketchup vs catsup posted:Every Feld Game You Like is Bad. Did I say it was good? I said it was my favorite.
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Jul 24, 2020 01:06
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silvergoose posted:Did I say it was good? I said it was my favorite. Oh I meant the generic “that one” - not referencing you specifically. (though I mainly meant Burgundy)
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Jul 24, 2020 01:58
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My friends who like Robinson Crusoe also like the PC game Darkest Dungeon. Some people just like games that are punishing and make you lose a lot.
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Jul 24, 2020 02:01
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darkest dungeon is just a bad game outside of it being punishing or whatever tho...
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Jul 24, 2020 02:13
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ketchup vs catsup posted:Oh I meant the generic “that one” - not referencing you specifically. Trajan is good though.
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Jul 24, 2020 02:18
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I'm gonna do it I'm gonna buy an 18xx Probably this one https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshuastarr/1861-russia-1867-canada Cause it's a 2-for-1 box 
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Jul 24, 2020 04:31
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CommonShore posted:My friends who like Robinson Crusoe also like the PC game Darkest Dungeon. Some people just like games that are punishing and make you lose a lot. It's weird that people don't see the difference between those games and games like Dark Souls or Antiquity, which are punishing until you git gud. But that may actually be the appeal. Play RC enough times and the RNG will smile on you, so you can feel the sense of accomplishment that you beat it regardless of whether you actually improved as a player. Other people enjoy RC as an experience generator. I confess I'll still bust out Eldritch Horror every now and then when I want that. CaptainRightful fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 06:32
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Look the narrator covers a multitude of sins
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Jul 24, 2020 06:36
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Darkest Dungeon is very much in the "punishing until you git gud" vein, fwiw.
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Jul 24, 2020 06:39
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Robinson is a game where everything random is bad. It's designed to make people who already are into worker placement to fear cards and dice even more. Oh, and the designer punishes you for losing health. Using a system that can cost even more health. So, you are on an exotic island with wild animals, and deadly weather, and ancient treasures... then you stub your toe and depress yourself to death. Infinitum posted:I'm gonna do it The production has been delayed due to tile trays.
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Jul 24, 2020 06:40
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4x4 Kallax bought  Also bought a bunch of little wooden bowls for game pieces. (I'd legit buy a 5x5, but I don't have space) SelenicMartian posted:The rulebook for this one actually has tons of examples and pictures. Yeah I've been looking at this for a while. I like the production quality and presentation. Like I get that 18xx's are super dry, but it looks like a lot of thought has gone into the product and should be a good entry point for a newbie.
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Jul 24, 2020 09:44
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Jabor posted:Darkest Dungeon is very much in the "punishing until you git gud" vein, fwiw. absolutely, with experience you never really feel like you didn't deserve something RC is probably not a great experience generator, i think i prefer mansions of madness or eldritch horror for that, what keeps us from playing it is largely that its been a long time and with 1e the rulebook is poo poo and we dont wanna muddle through it
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Jul 24, 2020 12:56
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Darkest Dungeon has legit one ofthe best bit of intro cinematics, that both sets the tone of the game and does an incredible bit of world building in 2min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlRBzoKN4NY "You remember our venerable house? Opulent and Imperial..."
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Jul 24, 2020 13:05
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The only problem I have with DD is the fact the campaign is too long and you need to grind the same locations way too much. Really good game if you can stomach that, and definitely skill based.
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Jul 24, 2020 13:41
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Darkest Dungeon definitely coasts mostly on the strength of its aesthetics. It's not really "punishing" in the sense of either being challenging or unfair, but it does have a good grasp on player psychology and is good at producing tension and baiting players into engaging with its press-your-luck mechanics. It's ultimately a fairly shallow game but people get emotionally manipulated into doing dumb poo poo and then they ascribe their mistakes to the game.
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Jul 24, 2020 13:51
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Infinitum posted:I'm gonna do it 18Ches from All Aboard Games may be a better entry point to the system (temporarily sold out until the Fall I think). I'm sure others will chime in, but I think the reception on 61/67 is somewhat lukewarm. 1882 is also a great option, and I'm under the impression its a far better game than 18Ches. The caveat is is that it's a bit brutal. IMO 1830 is actually a good entry point anyway (and readily available EDIT: nevermind vvvvvv), people approach it like it's some monster but its p easy, just a bit long. The classic recommendation for an intro 18xx is 1889, but it's hard to buy for the time being. So anyway I think 18Ches, 1882 or 1830 are better first 18xx buys than 61/67 Edit: 18MS is a forthcoming small 18xx from AAG, but few people have played the new version, but it may suffer from the 61/67 problem in that it just might not be any good? prokaryote fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 14:25
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prokaryote posted:IMO 1830 is actually a good entry point anyway (and readily available) Where is 1830 available? I found very little online except original printings from the 80s.
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Jul 24, 2020 15:23
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Magnetic North posted:Where is 1830 available? I found very little online except original printings from the 80s. whoops, I assumed since it's done by relatively large games companies that it wouldn't be sold out. if you can get the original printing imo it's better than the newer version
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Jul 24, 2020 15:34
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Just do 1830. It's not that complicated (honestly, it isn't) and is the base line for everything after. And yeah, if you can get the original for a reasonable price, go for it. I wish I had had someone teach me it years ago because I've owned it forever and finally got around to playing it for real about six months ago.
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Jul 24, 2020 16:38
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I've been hearing from a lot of people that 1830 is hard to get, but hopefully Lookout will do another print run soon (along with 1888, or whatever the Communist China one's called).
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Jul 24, 2020 16:49
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