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the lazy peon video sounds cool but it also sounds Star Citizen levels of ambitious to me. i find it hard to believe they'd develop all of these interacting systems and content that may potentially never get seen for years, because a node may get locked out forever. unless all of the quests are procedurally generated bear-rear end-gathering quests and theres no real consequence for unlocking this node vs that node etc. it's just not a reasonable way to spend developer time unless the content is incredibly shallow.
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Jul 21, 2020 22:02
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It really does sound like a game with cool concepts that they've successfully tested internally with their small alpha base. What developers don't seem to understand is that no one cares about their "vision". Once you have thousands of players playing this game at the same time, the holes will be found and the meta will be revealed. It will then be up to the developers to either compromise the vision by trimming down systems to their base simplistic forms, or to accept that they will have a small niche group of players the game will cater to. Judging by the marketing campaign, I think they will be trying to maximize sub count above all else. In one of the videos, they mentioned a city can be constructed and also demolished? There were caravans that can be used to transfer your goods from node to node. What kind of goods were they talking about? My traditional understanding of a game like this would be if a player has just farmed up a bunch of silver ore and can't store it all in their inventory, they could place it in a bank. This bank would be usable at an already established node. However, this node can be destroyed by other players. Does that mean my silver ore is gone forever?
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Jul 21, 2020 22:41
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cmdrk posted:the lazy peon video sounds cool but it also sounds Star Citizen levels of ambitious to me. i find it hard to believe they'd develop all of these interacting systems and content that may potentially never get seen for years, because a node may get locked out forever. unless all of the quests are procedurally generated bear-rear end-gathering quests and theres no real consequence for unlocking this node vs that node etc. it's just not a reasonable way to spend developer time unless the content is incredibly shallow. From what I've heard, a lot of these mechanics were present in either Archage or Lineage 2, and the major differences are A) the node system (which they seem to already have working somewhat) and B) the sheer number of these mechanics. When listening to the longer interview it seemed to me like they could afford to cut out some content, at least for release. I don't think we need ships and naval stuff right off the bat. quote:It really does sound like a game with cool concepts that they've successfully tested internally with their small alpha base. What developers don't seem to understand is that no one cares about their "vision". Once you have thousands of players playing this game at the same time, the holes will be found and the meta will be revealed. It will then be up to the developers to either compromise the vision by trimming down systems to their base simplistic forms, or to accept that they will have a small niche group of players the game will cater to. Judging by the marketing campaign, I think they will be trying to maximize sub count above all else. Among other things, it will be used to transport 'certificates' I.E. some proof that you've killed a particular type of mob. Regular mobs won't drop gold in AoC, they drop these certificates. You can take the certificates back to the nearby node to turn into a hunter NPC for gold or you can transport the certificates (probably not just yours, maybe your whole guild builds up for a few days and then does this) to a far away node and get up to 5x the value of the certificates there. The caravans generate a PvP bubble around them that flags everyone who enters. When destroyed, ~1/3rd of the certificates are destroyed and >1/3rd of them are dropped to be picked up by whoever destroyed the caravan. I'd highly recommend watching the interview with that WoW streamer from the previous page, most of this is addressed plus a lot more really interesting stuff.
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Jul 21, 2020 23:02
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Len posted:A friend of mine has been hyping this game the last two days, Google tells me the head dev worked on EverQuest 2? Is that not right? It's right, but that's not the actual person in charge. The person in charge is Steven Sharif who has no game dev experience. The "President"/COO (John Moore) who also has no game dev (or COO experience) and pretty much just seems like he's straight out of a mid-low tier liberal arts school. Now having a token "President" is whatever. The concern is Steven Sharif who was the man responsible for bringing in this project together and has made it clear through numerous interviews that he's the one calling the shots here as far as design decisions go. So while the rest of the team are yes, in-fact ex-SOE people that he picked that will likely be able to successfully build his vision (it's why I'm not thread making GBS threads as hard here unlike other notable Kickstarter MMOs which I don't anticipate will be released due to no one involved knowing how to develop an MMO), I just have serious doubts whether his vision is actually one worth building. This appears less of "experienced dev team comes together to build a revolutionary MMO" and more of "rich kid pays SOE leftovers to make his dream MMO".
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Jul 22, 2020 00:45
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SweetBro posted:It's right, but that's not the actual person in charge. The person in charge is Steven Sharif who has no game dev experience. The "President"/COO (John Moore) who also has no game dev (or COO experience) and pretty much just seems like he's straight out of a mid-low tier liberal arts school. Ah gotcha, I hadnt followed or heard about this until two days ago when he started hyping it up in our discord as a "soon to release f2p MMO" and started rambling off things that all sound too good to be true Even if it does come out he's going to play it for a week tops and then ghost
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Jul 22, 2020 01:40
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Len posted:... "soon to release f2p MMO"... Games not coming out for 1-2 years, and its not f2p there is a subscription you'll need to pay but no box price.
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Jul 22, 2020 01:49
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I personally think we'll see large "community grinds" that essentially time gate high level content such as Metropolis raids, and give breathing room for them to develop it after the game has released. Maybe I misheard it but if they truly are releasing unique node content, that's going to be a pretty hefty order, if each one comes with a dungeon or raid boss that presents a potential 100+ raid bosses they need to design. This part specifically worries me. Everything else though I think honestly they could do fairly easily. Also has there been any mention to fix the netcode / movement? This for me is a deal breaker.
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Jul 22, 2020 06:36
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Well, if nothing else their current strategy of having long chats with popular streamers has brought a bunch of people onto their hype train. A number of non-goon discords I'm in are absolutely in full hype mode for this based off those streams, to the point they're now defending the "vision" quite loudly. So they got themselves a fresh injection of sucker money at least.
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Jul 22, 2020 14:26
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hobocrunch posted:I personally think we'll see large "community grinds" that essentially time gate high level content such as Metropolis raids, and give breathing room for them to develop it after the game has released. Maybe I misheard it but if they truly are releasing unique node content, that's going to be a pretty hefty order, if each one comes with a dungeon or raid boss that presents a potential 100+ raid bosses they need to design. This part specifically worries me. Everything else though I think honestly they could do fairly easily. They did a battle royale to test the combat system during which they found some issues and fixed them to allow for large scale battles, if i understood correctly. So they're confident in 250v250 and now theyre next target is to try and support 500v500.
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Jul 22, 2020 14:46
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doomisland posted:They did a battle royale to test the combat system during which they found some issues and fixed them to allow for large scale battles, if i understood correctly. So they're confident in 250v250 and now theyre next target is to try and support 500v500. lol
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Jul 22, 2020 14:51
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Zaodai posted:Well, if nothing else their current strategy of having long chats with popular streamers has brought a bunch of people onto their hype train. A number of non-goon discords I'm in are absolutely in full hype mode for this based off those streams, to the point they're now defending the "vision" quite loudly. We were trying to explain to our buddy that he's real good at falling for these hype trains for games that don't pan out. At least he's finally realized Star Citizen isn't going to ever be a thing and stopped trying to get us to buy into it
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Jul 22, 2020 14:59
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Len posted:We were trying to explain to our buddy that he's real good at falling for these hype trains for games that don't pan out. At least he's finally realized Star Citizen isn't going to ever be a thing and stopped trying to get us to buy into it 
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Jul 22, 2020 15:15
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doomisland posted:They did a battle royale to test the combat system during which they found some issues and fixed them to allow for large scale battles, if i understood correctly. So they're confident in 250v250 and now theyre next target is to try and support 500v500. No, they did the Battle Royale to try and get into that hype, it obviously didn't work, so now they claim "stress test". Anything that even whispers the Battle Royal nonsense are just trying to get the hype going, don't, all MMOs are poo poo.
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Jul 22, 2020 16:08
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RagnarokZ posted:No, they did the Battle Royale to try and get into that hype, it obviously didn't work, so now they claim "stress test". I feel like I remember them saying DURING the BR phase that it was for testing reasons. Even if it wasn't that's still probably a really good way to test a bunch of systems in a more controlled environment.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:12
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Raioner posted:I feel like I remember them saying DURING the BR phase that it was for testing reasons. Even if it wasn't that's still probably a really good way to test a bunch of systems in a more controlled environment. I remember them claiming that too. Mostly what I remember from the BR phase though was that the combat looked like the worst combat I had ever seen, like unsalvagably god awful even by free to play standards.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:38
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orcane posted:Let's lifetime pass the next Hey, say what you will but Age Of Conan is still a thing. And the combat was probably some of the best for any MMO in its time.
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Jul 23, 2020 03:00
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SweetBro posted:Hey, say what you will but Age Of Conan is still a thing. And the combat was probably some of the best for any MMO in its time. Having your horse kick people off bridges will never stop being funny to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-rl3RPC_Mw
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Jul 23, 2020 03:13
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8-bit Miniboss posted:Having your horse kick people off bridges will never stop being funny to me. lol I forgot about that. The original AoC. I remember having a bunch of fun ganking people on White Sands Isle.
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Jul 23, 2020 03:55
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Apparently the hype game on this is strong enough that my friend mentioned he's excited but hesitant to slam buy a pre-order pack after reading up on the game devs in a Twitch chat and got kicked, a time out, and then people spammed "who cares?" memes at him
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Jul 25, 2020 23:51
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Len posted:Apparently the hype game on this is strong enough that my friend mentioned he's excited but hesitant to slam buy a pre-order pack after reading up on the game devs in a Twitch chat and got kicked, a time out, and then people spammed "who cares?" memes at him I had similar experience. It was a run-in last year in another game with a guy that sunk in big and was trying to shell out keys to get more people to buy in. I played it for a few minutes as UE4 struggled to stream their ludicrous amounts of unoptimized textures and fx, causing my 1080ti to emit strange noises and warnings. I told him that it seems more of an art show than anything and he got pretty offended on behalf of this kickstarter mmorpg team.
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Jul 26, 2020 00:18
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Len posted:Apparently the hype game on this is strong enough that my friend mentioned he's excited but hesitant to slam buy a pre-order pack after reading up on the game devs in a Twitch chat and got kicked, a time out, and then people spammed "who cares?" memes at him Remind your friend that it will be 15$ sub with no box price so he could wait. Also I believe they said the next alpha doesn’t have an NDA so he could watch all the streamers that will jump on this.
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Jul 26, 2020 00:54
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Hy_C posted:Remind your friend that it will be 15$ sub with no box price so he could wait. Also I believe they said the next alpha doesn’t have an NDA so he could watch all the streamers that will jump on this. My plan is to wait for the second month after release, if it releases, and see if it is worth it then. Honestly anyone buying these expensive preorder packs is insane and either has way too much money, makes poor financial decisions, or both.
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Jul 26, 2020 01:58
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Maguoob posted:My plan is to wait for the second month after release, if it releases, and see if it is worth it then. Honestly anyone buying these expensive preorder packs is insane and either has way too much money, makes poor financial decisions, or both. a fool and his money are great customers ferengi rule of acquisition 420 subrule 69
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Jul 26, 2020 08:03
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doomisland posted:They did a battle royale to test the combat system during which they found some issues and fixed them to allow for large scale battles, if i understood correctly. So they're confident in 250v250 and now theyre next target is to try and support 500v500. I wasn't referring to the raiding of Metropolis, I was referring to Raids that are unlocked when you get a Metropolis. I don't know if anyone's doing rough numbers on quests etc, and I don't know the facts so I could be completely off base here, but if they're actually planning unique content for all the nodes, lets say there's 5 levels, and each level is 4 quests, 1 dungeon starting at level 3/4/5 and 1 raid at metropolis level, that's 5 raids at least they need at launch (but even possibly maybe 6), some absurd amount of quests- 100 nodes, lets say on average every node is level 3 in 2 months, that's like 1200 unique quests and 100 dungeons. Obviously these numbers are just guesses, but without some serious time gating they're going to have their work cut out for them. I also worry that Metropolis' will take so long to build and be basically a pushover for a good guild, basically barring people from raid content in the game (or something to that nature). All in all Intrepid have their work cut out for them.
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Jul 27, 2020 08:42
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hobocrunch posted:I wasn't referring to the raiding of Metropolis, I was referring to Raids that are unlocked when you get a Metropolis. I don't know if anyone's doing rough numbers on quests etc, and I don't know the facts so I could be completely off base here, but if they're actually planning unique content for all the nodes, lets say there's 5 levels, and each level is 4 quests, 1 dungeon starting at level 3/4/5 and 1 raid at metropolis level, that's 5 raids at least they need at launch (but even possibly maybe 6), some absurd amount of quests- 100 nodes, lets say on average every node is level 3 in 2 months, that's like 1200 unique quests and 100 dungeons. Obviously these numbers are just guesses, but without some serious time gating they're going to have their work cut out for them. I also worry that Metropolis' will take so long to build and be basically a pushover for a good guild, basically barring people from raid content in the game (or something to that nature). All in all Intrepid have their work cut out for them. I guess it depends on how unique the quests and dungeons are. 1200 quests that have you collect 10 antelope testicles don't require too much work. With dungeons, they can have a thousand if they really want, but most of those dungeons will look like they came from Oblivion.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:55
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There’s no way it’s going to be completely unique content for each node. To some degree it will have to be procedural based on some database or table. Like maybe they are creating dungeons, bosses, etc with parts 1-15 so a dungeon in a forest node might be programmed to have Forest theme, layout 7, boss mechanics 3, loot table 4 but there’s no way they are designing unique content for each node. How many nodes are there?
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Jul 27, 2020 19:03
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LuckyCat posted:There’s no way it’s going to be completely unique content for each node. To some degree it will have to be procedural based on some database or table. Like maybe they are creating dungeons, bosses, etc with parts 1-15 so a dungeon in a forest node might be programmed to have Forest theme, layout 7, boss mechanics 3, loot table 4 but there’s no way they are designing unique content for each node. How many nodes are there? 103 is the number I hear the most. And yeah, this is pretty clearly how they're going to do quests and dungeons. Raids might get a more personal touch, but they'd be nuts to attempt to make thousands of unique quests and ~100 dungeons while also trying to implement the bazillion promised features. Honestly, I don't mind procedurally generated PvE content in a game that's more about PvP and crafting. SWG had garbage PvE content. That wasn't the draw. And even procedurally generated PvE content will be loads better than what SWG had. It doesn't even make much sense for the open world stuff to be that difficult or complicated, because if it is nobody will ever be able to complete an encounter. They'll get PK'd halfway through and wipe. (Dungeons and raids won't be tied to specific nodes though. They'll be points of interest scattered around the map that get 'activated' when a nearby node grows and extends it's zone of influence to where that dungeon is. So they may not need anything like one dungeon-per-node.) Space Monster fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 21:06
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Also I believe each node has a zone which may overlap? so say 4 nodes all surround amountain, each of them might unlock the same dungeon in that mountain? The one thing I thought was neat from all I heard was how raid bosses rarely drop completed items, instead more often dropping crafting components so crafters can make those items. The rest of the game might be trash but that idea of bringing crafters into endgame raiding loot was neat.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:24
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Space Monster posted:(Dungeons and raids won't be tied to specific nodes though. They'll be points of interest scattered around the map that get 'activated' when a nearby node grows and extends it's zone of influence to where that dungeon is. So they may not need anything like one dungeon-per-node.) Stormgale posted:Also I believe each node has a zone which may overlap? This makes a little more sense actually, I probably just heard "unique dungeons / raids" and also "dungeons and raids tide to nodes" and figured it was what it meant.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:32
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Stormgale posted:Also I believe each node has a zone which may overlap? I'm just looking forward to an SWG style crafting system (with many potential outcomes to one recipe) with stalls/stores rather than everything being sold on one central auction house.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:46
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Space Monster posted:I'm just looking forward to an SWG style crafting system (with many potential outcomes to one recipe) with stalls/stores rather than everything being sold on one central auction house. This game will probably be bad but the whole goods moving between towns does seem really fun from a crafting perspective, figuring out local markets
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Jul 27, 2020 22:50
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Stormgale posted:This game will probably be bad but the whole goods moving between towns does seem really fun from a crafting perspective, figuring out local markets Space Monster posted:Sounds pretty dope. I'm ready to slavishly defend this to the death, and will, after the inevitable disappointment, pretend that I was never invested at all. This is my position and I'm sticking to it until it goes belly up from horrible mismanagement and execution.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:54
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The best thing about an mmo is being excited for it, maybe even a little defensive, and then when it bombs pretending like you knew it was going to all along.
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Jul 27, 2020 23:35
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I can be excited for bad things, like when I make another post.
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Jul 28, 2020 01:07
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I am excited for this video game in which I plan to pay 15 dollars a month to mine iron in a cave and then have it stolen by other players.
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Jul 28, 2020 06:57
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Killstick posted:I am excited for this video game in which I plan to pay 15 dollars a month to mine iron in a cave and then have it stolen by other players. And we thank you for your service. Apparently, taking summoner as your main class will give you access to summons, and then the augment of the second class will change those summons drastically, such as the Cleric making the summons now Undead and turning you into an actual Necromancer rather than just by name alone. Honestly this game sounds like a dream to me, it can't possibly go down this well. hobocrunch fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 07:25
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hobocrunch posted:Apparently, taking summoner as your main class will give you access to summons, and then the augment of the second class will change those summons drastically, such as the Cleric making the summons now Undead and turning you into an actual Necromancer rather than just by name alone. Honestly this game sounds like a dream to me, it can't possibly go down this well. I'm always surprised when MMOs don't do pet classes, from a development standpoint it's such a great way to get more use out of existing assets. You've always got a catalog of modeled, animated, and balance-tweaked enemies in your game for players to fight. A little bit of minion AI and scripting turns all of that into a robust class resource to play Pokemon with.
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Jul 28, 2020 10:03
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Vanguard Warden posted:I'm always surprised when MMOs don't do pet classes, from a development standpoint it's such a great way to get more use out of existing assets. You've always got a catalog of modeled, animated, and balance-tweaked enemies in your game for players to fight. A little bit of minion AI and scripting turns all of that into a robust class resource to play Pokemon with. The problem is usually balance and load related, because while you can control how much a player has to fight in a dungeon or in the world, you can't control what happens when 20 summoners show up to swarm something with 10 pets a piece.
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Jul 28, 2020 14:16
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Zaodai posted:The problem is usually balance and load related, because while you can control how much a player has to fight in a dungeon or in the world, you can't control what happens when 20 summoners show up to swarm something with 10 pets a piece. Also on the balance side, you have a tough time making the AI controlled pet's solid vs a regular player. If they are hyper efficient AI kill machines with also benefit from being in essence server hosted (like in old wow how mobs could hit you while you ran away due to latency) they can be far stronger. Or their AI/pathing can cause them to be far less powerful than a player using "Regular" abilities
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Jul 28, 2020 18:09
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Stormgale posted:Also on the balance side, you have a tough time making the AI controlled pet's solid vs a regular player. If they are hyper efficient AI kill machines with also benefit from being in essence server hosted (like in old wow how mobs could hit you while you ran away due to latency) they can be far stronger. Or their AI/pathing can cause them to be far less powerful than a player using "Regular" abilities Well, and flat out you have to consider how to even fight them. Do you just give every class things that can effectively cleave large amounts of mobs to deal with Summoners? Then you have to retweak your entire PvE setup.
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Jul 28, 2020 19:07
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