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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:what do you believe the function of politics is As is blindingly loving obvious from the context I meant the candidates themselves.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:23
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FWIW -- and this is for me personally, feel free to disagree -- focusing on Reade and Biden's extremely gross history with women is about trying to force liberals to reckon with Biden being antithetical to something they supposedly care about (believing rape survivors, the safety of women, and the metoo movement in general), because the things that I, as a leftist, think immediately disqualify Biden from the presidency (bussing, close personal friendships to heinous racists, crime bill, war on drugs, blatant corruption, Iraq war, being in the pocket of the insurance industry etc. etc. etc) are things liberals either like, don't care about, or think is unfortunate but ultimately pragmatic/understandable. In retrospect it was really dumb to believe that this would cause liberals any amount of introspection because if the political environment of the last... 50? 5000? years has taught us anything it's that right-wingers are immune to their own hypocrisy. As for if I would vote for someone who was otherwise good (M4A, GND, defunding the police, etc. etc) but was credibly accused of rape? That'd be an incredibly difficult choice to make either way, but that's a choice I don't have to make this year. Pentecoastal Elites fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 17:25
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Mellow Seas posted:As is blindingly loving obvious from the context I meant the candidates themselves. voting for president has a tremendous amount to do with rewarding and punishing people, Mellow Seas. the winner is rewarded with the most powerful position on the face of the planet, and the ability to decide who will be rewarded and punished from that position. that you consider a little bit of rape no impediment to saying "i believe this man should be the most powerful person on the planet" is a choice you have made. it is understandably contested.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:29
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:FWIW -- and this is for me personally, feel free to disagree -- focusing on Reade and Biden's extremely gross history with women is about trying to force liberals to reckon with Biden being antithetical to something they supposedly care about (believing rape survivors, the safety of women, and the metoo movement in general), because the things that I, as a leftist, think immediately disqualify Biden from the presidency (bussing, close personal friendships to heinous racists, crime bill, war on drugs, blatant corruption, Iraq war, being in the pocket of the insurance industry etc. etc. etc) are things liberals either like, don't care about, or think is unfortunate but ultimately pragmatic/understandable. yeah the actual reasons I wouldn't vote for Biden are all the demonstrably evil things he's done in support of war, white supremacy, and corporate power but libs are fine with all that, that he's personally every bit as gross and creepy and rapey as the president really just highlights their hypocrisy because they've spent the last four years criticizing Trump for his personal morality and self-righteously shaming his supporters for voting for a rapist just because they like his politics. Whoops! E: and whether I personally would vote for a rapist if it would get me Medicare For All: no one should be forced to make that choice in the first place. Just replace the rapist with someone else, the party can do that, if the party doesn't want to do that because it cares more about personality and the career prospects of elites than about justice and respect, the party is trash anyways VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 17:34
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Seems like it's a good time to remind everyone of a relevant thread rule:fool of sound posted:
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Jul 27, 2020 18:05
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As you may be aware, there has been something of a policy change regarding the accusations of sexual assault against Biden, and the people who have made those accusations. The fact is that Biden stands accused of sexual assault. Posters are not required to believe those accusations, but it is no longer going to be acceptable to cast aspersions upon the accusers or their credibility. It is still fine to discuss the accusations, but do not demand that other posters who support Biden answer for those accusations, nor accuse them or supporting or minimizing sexual assault due to their support for Biden. People can support Biden for any number of reasons, and you should respond to the arguments they make, rather than deflect to the accusations. If a poster says they want to vote for Biden because he might nominate better supreme court justices than Trump, then respond to that rather than bringing up the accusations. If a poster wants to assert that Biden is fundamentally a more moral person than Trump on the other hand., feel free to bring them up.
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Main Paineframe posted:Seems like it's a good time to remind everyone of a relevant thread rule: so what exactly broke the rule
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Jul 27, 2020 18:09
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'you can discuss the accusations but you can't ask how someone voting for Biden can square the accusations with support for him' is still the most dogbrained rule I've ever read
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Jul 27, 2020 18:10
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Main Paineframe posted:Seems like it's a good time to remind everyone of a relevant thread rule: gently caress you and gently caress this rule. Joe Biden is a god drat rapist piece of poo poo and everyone needs their noses rubbed in it every time they mention him. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 27, 2020 18:11
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sexpig by night posted:'you can discuss the accusations but you can't ask how someone voting for Biden can square the accusations with support for him' is still the most dogbrained rule I've ever read it's funny how that rule didn't need to be invented for Trump or Kavanaugh isn't it!
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Jul 27, 2020 18:12
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Wait uhhh would it not be okay to bring up the fact that Trump is a rapist if someone was going to vote for him or does only Biden get this special protection for some reason?
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Jul 27, 2020 18:13
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If someone says "Vote for the rapist because they'll do X" I don't actually feel like discussing X is more important than addressing the fact they'll settle on a rapist. Probate me if you have to, but I aint letting it go. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) World Famous W fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 18:18
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I too deeply enjoy threads repeatedly death spiraling into arguing about Tara Reade's credibility.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:18
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Timeless Appeal posted:I don't vote for Biden and I'm complicit in electing a rapist That's not how this works. The only people complicit in electing someone are the people who voted for that person, the people organizing that person's campaign, and the people who maintained the system that let them there. If you don't vote for Trump and Trump wins, you're not responsible for Trump. Anyone who says that "If you don't vote for Biden, you're voting for Trump" fundamentally misunderstands the way things work in both a political and moral way.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:19
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I too deeply enjoy threads repeatedly death spiraling into arguing about Tara Reade's credibility. I mean no one even was talking about that but for some reason a mod had to come in all 'careful now' because someone asked what terrible behavior would actually make someone not worthy of voting to some people in this thread (a question that got all of one actually genuine answer and instantly got derailed to 'ah but what if the rapist had the cure for cancer, then what, then aren't you the bad guy???). Feels like a mod of the debate forum would be more annoyed at someone trying to turn a pretty simple question around on the asker instead of answering it than maybe too many mentions of the fact that Joe Biden raped a woman and sexually harassed multiple others.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:21
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MonsieurChoc posted:That's not how this works. The only people complicit in electing someone are the people who voted for that person, the people organizing that person's campaign, and the people who maintained the system that let them there. If I don't vote for Biden I'm voting for Trump, which I figure means that if I don't vote at all I'm technically voting for everyone. So in order to maximize my vote I'm staying home and getting drunk on election day.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:22
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a vote not for biden is a vote for trump, ergo a vote for trump is a vote for howie, ergo a vote for howie is a vote for biden, thus nobody itt's allowed to get mad at me for voting green. It's science.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:23
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sexpig by night posted:so what exactly broke the rule Nothing in particular, but it seems like things were heading in that direction so I thought it'd be good to remind everyone of the line before they got really revved up!
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Jul 27, 2020 18:24
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Main Paineframe posted:Nothing in particular, but it seems like things were heading in that direction so I thought it'd be good to remind everyone of the line before they got really revved up! Are we allowed to bring up Trump's rape accusations if someone plans on voting for him or is that rule just for Biden?
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Jul 27, 2020 18:24
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:Are we allowed to bring up Trump's rape accusations if someone plans on voting for him or is that rule just for Biden? I guess we'll find out if it ever happens!
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Jul 27, 2020 18:26
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Are there any other politicians that get special protection? If the Green candidate gets accused does he get special protection too? It seems like something there should be an overall rule about rather than just picking and choosing.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:27
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Main Paineframe posted:I guess we'll find out if it ever happens! feels like it's a yes or no question, unless you just know what the answer is but don't want to say the rule entirely is made to come as close to banning talk of biden's sexual crimes as possible, because apparently bringing it up at all is enough to get you all gunshy.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:28
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Not voting for Biden is like voting for Trump, so instead of complaining about leftists who think Biden is really bad (a small percentage of overall voters) we should really complain about people who vote at the lowest rates and comprise of a large percentage of the country and therefore are really just Trump voters: poor people.
Mind_Taker fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 18:32
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So what is the consensus on tactical voting? Is throwing a vote at Biden in a tipping point state (MI/WI/PA/FL) the same thing as supporting him?
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Jul 27, 2020 18:39
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Ardennes posted:So what is the consensus on tactical voting? Is throwing a vote at Biden in a tipping point state (MI/WI/PA/FL) the same thing as supporting him? I certainly don't think so, but I don't view my single vote as some kind of full endorsement of a candidate's character, history, morality, etc. I don't think that when you vote for somebody you are saying "I love this person, all of who they are, everything they have done. I am voting for them because they are who I wish I could be". Voting is a practical thing, and I treat it in a practical way.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:41
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Ardennes posted:So what is the consensus on tactical voting? Is throwing a vote at Biden in a tipping point state (MI/WI/PA/FL) the same thing as supporting him? Yes. Voting for Biden is supporting Biden, by definition. You are supporting him with your vote. There's no checkbox you get to check that says "this isn't actually support for Biden"
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Jul 27, 2020 18:42
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Ardennes posted:So what is the consensus on tactical voting? Is throwing a vote at Biden in a tipping point state (MI/WI/PA/FL) the same thing as supporting him? we've gone over this: voting for Biden is not the same as supporting him, but not voting for Biden is exactly the same as supporting Trump and makes you just like Trump
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Jul 27, 2020 18:43
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Ardennes posted:So what is the consensus on tactical voting? Is throwing a vote at Biden in a tipping point state (MI/WI/PA/FL) the same thing as supporting him? If I were in a swing state, I would be very conflicted about it. Luckily I'm not and can let others grapple with that issue. I can't say I would see them the same.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:44
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Main Paineframe posted:Seems like it's a good time to remind everyone of a relevant thread rule: Kindly stick to enforcing the rules around the sexual assault when they're broken, then, like when a poster dismissed not voting for a candidate with credible rape accusations as "nonsense" last time I bothered to read this garbage thread. Funny how it only ever seems to be enforced or mentioned to protect certain posters from actually even discussing the credible rape allegations levied against Joe Biden.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:46
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voting for Biden, but making sure to do a big wink to the poll worker as I do
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Jul 27, 2020 18:46
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I'm here to "vote" ""for"" """Biden"""
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Jul 27, 2020 18:47
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VitalSigns posted:we've gone over this: voting for Biden is not the same as supporting him, but not voting for Biden is exactly the same as supporting Trump and makes you just like Trump I mean there doesn't seem to be a consensus over it to be honest. Personally, I think it is fair to throw a vote at Biden (and yes all of his issues) in certain states simply to deny Trump another 4 years. It doesn't mean you don't think Biden is scum or will be a poor president, but just that Trump is destroying this country and its population. Even if you are an accelerationist, Trump has slammed this country into a brick wall at light speed.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:47
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A vote for a person is supporting them, yes.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:48
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World Famous W posted:A vote for a person is supporting them, yes. What are average people suppose to do at this point?
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Jul 27, 2020 18:49
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Ardennes posted:I mean there doesn't seem to be a consensus over it to be honest. Biden will also destroy this country and its population. I live in Florida and I'll be voting Green. Honestly, to me, voting for Biden is the accelerationist option. Ardennes posted:What are average people suppose to do at this point? Engage in protests/direct action and start building mutual aid networks locally. Electoralism is not going to save us.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:49
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Ardennes posted:I mean there doesn't seem to be a consensus over it to be honest. Biden is also an accelerationist option because he doesn't support the Green New Deal (or less important (but still really important!) items like M4A). His presidency would actively hurl us toward climate armageddon just as quickly as Trump.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:51
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WampaLord posted:Biden will also destroy this country and its population. I live in Florida and I'll be voting Green. Honestly, to me, voting for Biden is the accelerationist option. I honestly don't think Biden can go faster than Trump has. I am not saying that because I like Biden in any way but Trump is by far the worst president this country ever has and is rapidly pushing the country into formal fascism. Biden will probably be a complete screw up, but even if you are talking about economics, Trump has been a neutron bomb. Mind_Taker posted:Biden is also an accelerationist option because he doesn't support the Green New Deal (or less important (but still really important!) items like M4A). His presidency would actively hurl us toward climate armageddon just as quickly as Trump. Climate change is baked in, at this point we are just trying to limp along for another 4 years. Btw, I do think the US will devolve into fascism one way or another, just all you can do is buy time.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:51
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Ardennes posted:I mean there doesn't seem to be a consensus over it to be honest. But there's no way to communicate anything other than blanket support with your vote. You can't mark a box that says it's actually a vote against Trump, not for Biden. Every vote Biden receives will be used to communicate his level of mandate for the things he wants to do, and will be used to browbeat other politicians into supporting those things. "I won your district by X amount, and I want this policy." And lol if you think Biden won't continue to destroy the country on behalf of the rich and powerful. He serves the exact same masters, he just doesn't care as much about enriching himself in the process (arguably making him dumber than Trump, who at least personally benefits from his despicable behavior). Edit: and Trump still hasn't done as bad as GWB, even with the poor COVID response. Call me when Trump starts a global war that kills millions of people and maybe we can reassess.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:52
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Ardennes posted:What are average people suppose to do at this point?
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Jul 27, 2020 18:53
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Ardennes posted:I honestly don't think Biden can go faster than Trump has. I am not saying that because I like Biden in any way but Trump is by far the worst president this country ever has and is rapidly pushing the country into formal fascism. The problem with Biden is that right now you have a huge amount of people who are (correctly) angry at Trump. Once Biden gets elected, millions of those people will go from angry to defensive and will start excusing everything Biden does and will defend him to their death. Right now we can harness that anti-Trump anger from liberals and channel some of it into productive causes like the protests, the second Biden wins that all goes away. You see it already, where #MeToo has been killed because we can't honestly discuss the rape accusations against Biden, we must defend him at all costs! Don't criticize the Dems! Don't you realize Trump is worse? That's why he's the accelerationist option.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:54
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I understand why one might vote for Joe Biden but I can only do my part to make sure they know who he is while they do so. I, personally, could not actually imagine mustering the effort to vote for someone I didn't actually support. Ardennes posted:What are average people suppose to do at this point? There's no good answer, but encountering that bad feeling and dealing with it is how change happens, how protests start, how we find other options. I view voting for Biden as retreat from that process, a surrender.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:54
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