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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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I would like to have a reason to vote for someone that isn’t FOTOG (fear if the other guy). Almost all of the positive rhetoric about Biden is expressed in terms of how bad Trump is, and that’s suspicious to me. We know how bad Trump is; will Biden have the balls and brains to fix it? I don’t trust him after his long record in the Senate.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:54
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World Famous W posted:Not vote for a rapist Someone that likely committed sexual assault will be in the White House one way or another in January. Btw, a few months ago, I thought there wasn't going to be a difference, but the way Trump has acted through COVID has convinced me that he just has to go.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:54
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Ardennes posted:So what is the consensus on tactical voting? Is throwing a vote at Biden in a tipping point state (MI/WI/PA/FL) the same thing as supporting him? Seems like it would be. I mean, when all is said and done, nobody except you (the general You, not you specifically) cares about WHY you voted for who you voted for. There's no asterisk you can add to the end of it, no Comment section on the bottom that you can use to clarify that you're only supporting Policies X and Z, but not Y. A vote for Biden is a vote for everything he brings to the table. Same for Trump and Howie and whoever else: You vote for them, it's a +1 to the entire package.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:56
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the_steve posted:Seems like it would be. I think the flaw here is allowing Trump to win in order to punish Biden and his wing of the Democratic Party. I don't think we can afford that any more . That said, I think also American democracy itself is screwed (I don't think the Democrats are going to change) and we are in triage mode at this point.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:59
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Ardennes posted:I mean there doesn't seem to be a consensus over it to be honest. I'm not sure about that, I was just noting that a lot of the people accusing people who won't vote for Biden of being Trump supporters are curiously also insisting that actually voting for Biden isn't being a Biden supporter, somehow But yeah I think it's a really tough choice and it's a cop-out but I'm still relieved I don't have to make it since Texas isn't going blue (and if somehow the galactic improbability of my vote swinging Texas comes to pass, my vote still doesn't matter because if Texas is 50-50 then Biden has already won a hilarious landslide victory)
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Jul 27, 2020 18:59
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Ardennes posted:Someone that likely committed sexual assault will be in the White House one way or another in January. What about someone not likely? I don't understand the need to vote for the winner. Like if Biden wins without my vote, no loss on my part. If he wins with my vote, I've compromised myself for very little gain. If he loses without my vote, my vote for him likely would not have made a difference. If he loses with my vote, I've compromised myself for literally nothing. The game theory here kinda pushes me to not vote for Biden. And keep pushing in ways that aren't just voting. I feel this way while still being able to admit that Biden would be better than Trump. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 18:59
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Ardennes posted:Someone that likely committed sexual assault will be in the White House one way or another in January. World Famous W fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 19:00
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I don't buy that Trump is the worst president any longer. I think a hypothetical President Trump in 2000-2008 wouldn't have been able to pull off 1/10th of the poo poo that Bush and Cheney did, or kick off the forever war.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:02
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Ardennes posted:I think the flaw here is allowing Trump to win in order to punish Biden and his wing of the Democratic Party. I don't think we can afford that any more . That said, I think also American democracy itself is screwed (I don't think the Democrats are going to change) and we are in triage mode at this point. If the Democrats aren’t going to change, why vote for them? What motivation do they have to change course if they know you’ll pull a lever for their candidate out of fear of their opponent?
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Jul 27, 2020 19:02
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MonsieurChoc posted:That's not how this works. The only people complicit in electing someone are the people who voted for that person, the people organizing that person's campaign, and the people who maintained the system that let them there. I think that Biden is a better option than Trump despite how flawed I think he is and I think his election will do material good for people and probably help Progressivism more than it will hurt it. You can dunk on me for those beliefs, but I think that's true. I can: --Not vote that benefits Trump because it presents less opposition to his voters --I can vote for a candidate besides Biden which benefits Trump because none of the candidates are a threat to get the majority and presents no opposition to his voters --I can vote for Biden which functionally cancels out a Trump voter. Like its fine if you don't believe Biden is worth becoming President and we're better off saying, "gently caress it," wether the storm and see what happens. It's fine to say that a system that asks you to choose between two rapists is so hosed up that you cannot morally take part in it. I disagree with those positions, but I get it. But I think it's ridiculous to then also pretend there is no consequence to the choice of not voting. If you don't vote for BIden--especially if you live in a competiive state--you are making a choice that contributes to Trump getting a higher percentage of your state's popular vote.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:03
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Ardennes posted:I think the flaw here is allowing Trump to win in order to punish Biden and his wing of the Democratic Party. I don't think we can afford that any more . That said, I think also American democracy itself is screwed (I don't think the Democrats are going to change) and we are in triage mode at this point.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:03
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:If the Democrats aren’t going to change, why vote for them? What motivation do they have to change course if they know you’ll pull a lever for their candidate out of fear of their opponent? Exactly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqRNnIMDkUY
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Jul 27, 2020 19:04
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I don't buy that Trump is the worst president any longer. I think a hypothetical President Trump in 2000-2008 wouldn't have been able to pull off 1/10th of the poo poo that Bush and Cheney did, or kick off the forever war. Yeah, Trump might be the most incompetent/dumbest president ever, but at no point in his presidency have I been able to look and see the level of human misery caused by Bush.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:05
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:What about someone not likely? From my perspective, the system isn't going to reform itself and all that is left is tactical voting. I agree actually about pushing in the streets because the system itself is screwed but I think we just need more time. Btw, I don't think the internal security apparatus of the US is that weak at this point.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:05
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If you're worried that you need to vote for Biden, I have been assured that Biden actually has this thing in the bag and Trump can't hope to recover, so you should feel free to vote your conscience even in a swing state. In fact, Biden himself has stated on multiple occasions that I should not vote for him, so really I'm just doing what the man himself said. He seems confident enough that he can tell people "vote for the other guy" so even if you're in the deepest heart of swing state hell you should feel pretty comfortable owning your vote and not feeling like you're required to support Ol' Grabby Joe.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:07
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Ardennes posted:I think the flaw here is allowing Trump to win in order to punish Biden and his wing of the Democratic Party. I don't think we can afford that any more . That said, I think also American democracy itself is screwed (I don't think the Democrats are going to change) and we are in triage mode at this point. If you (correctly) don't think the Democrats can ever change, then why would you not vote Green? They're literally the only chance at positive change in America through electoralism. Best case scenario is that the Dems lose all 50 states and get whig'd, and can be replaced with something worthwhile.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:08
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Timeless Appeal posted:But I think it's ridiculous to then also pretend there is no consequence to the choice of not voting. If you don't vote for BIden--especially if you live in a competiive state--you are making a choice that contributes to Trump getting a higher percentage of your state's popular vote. The only way I would feel in any way guilty is if the election was decided by exactly one vote. I think we can all rest easy knowing that will almost certainly not happen. Individual votes aren't even a drop in the bucket on the national level. People should still vote, of course, because local elections often ARE decided by small margins and sometimes even one vote, but the Presidential race is never that close.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:08
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Timeless Appeal posted:But I think it's ridiculous to then also pretend there is no consequence to the choice of not voting. If you don't vote for BIden--especially if you live in a competiive state--you are making a choice that contributes to Trump getting a higher percentage of your state's popular vote. For the individual voter there are no consequences for not voting for one of the two major parties, that's just math the election is not going to be decided by one vote, or at least the odds of that happening are so infinitesimal that you're just compromising your morality for nothing actually the odds are zero because in 2000 Florida showed there's a limit to how close the tipping-point state can be before the supreme court steals it, and the limit is way more than one vote. If your one vote swings the whole election to Biden, the court will step in and swing it back to Trump in a 5-4 decision
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Jul 27, 2020 19:09
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Ardennes posted:What are average people suppose to do at this point? I'm not trying to cause problems or stir poo poo; I'm asking this honestly and openly: what to you (not necessarily you, Ardennes; to the average person or whatever) does voting for Joe Biden actually do? I get he's "better" than Trump: not as boorish, potentially won't enact as many policies that actively try to hurt some of the most vulnerable American populations, might allow for some policies that actually help a few people -- or at least might allow for more of those than Trump would. Would probably "feel" better to you/average people (me included, tbh) because you wouldn't have to see Trump on TV every day saying some more dumb poo poo. I get all that. But what actually happens? We're staring down total climate catastrophe that not even Biden's plans -- much less what he'll actually be able to implement -- barely do anything to blunt. We're shoving wealth upward as fast as we can, something Biden has gone out of his way to say will continue apace. We've still got troops everywhere killing and immiserating every population we can get our hands on, which might actually be worse under Biden. Our economy is collapsing for all these reasons AND a global pandemic that the Biden administration can't do anything meaningful about. What are we supposed to do? Vote in Biden and hope and pray that priority #1 of the Biden admin is not "scrub out any possibility of left insurrection/entryism/drift in the party" and then maybe we can do the much-lauded Virginia plan or whatever and maybe get M4A in, what, thirty years? fifty? What will the world look like fifty years from now? It's some underpants gnomes poo poo. This isn't even considering what a monumental task it will be to even slow down the reaction to an already deeply unpopular democrat, especially because the economy really bottoming out and things becoming really bad will most likely neatly coincide with his presidency, maybe even his first hundred days. That's definitely not something Biden, nor any potential Biden VP, is ready to handle. What does the reaction to Biden look like? Moreover, who is left to fight against that reaction? The party that has seized the opportunity of a deeply hated Trump presidency to push forward a republican-by-any-other-name? WampaLord is exactly right: WampaLord posted:Honestly, to me, voting for Biden is the accelerationist option. Personally, I'm voting Green because in the slim chance that we all live to see 2040 or 2050 I'd like to be able to vote for an ecosocialist. It might be a longshot, but in my opinion it's a much better chance than thinking a vote for Biden will do anything to slow down what's coming, even infinitesimally so Pentecoastal Elites fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 19:11
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happening: It's? https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1287489147154960384
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Jul 27, 2020 19:11
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The only thing that could possibly make Joe Biden even more unappealing to me would be making his VP a faux-progressive cop.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:13
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:If you (correctly) don't think the Democrats can ever change, then why would you not vote Green? They're literally the only chance at positive change in America through electoralism. Best case scenario is that the Dems lose all 50 states and get whig'd, and can be replaced with something worthwhile. The Green party has proven time and time again that it's not interested in winning elections and governing. They're crystal-clearly a vanity party that puts up a Presidential candidate every 4 years as an option for people to protest vote. I certainly trust that the Democrats want to govern and will govern better than the Greens.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:16
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I don't wanna believe it'll happen, but really Biden seeing all of this poo poo happening and going 'aaah...but a BLACK cop...that'll calm both sides...' is the most Biden optionHow are u posted:The Green party has proven time and time again that it's not interested in winning elections and governing. They're crystal-clearly a vanity party that puts up a Presidential candidate every 4 years as an option for people to protest vote. I certainly trust that the Democrats want to govern and will govern better than the Greens. how have they 'proven' this?
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Jul 27, 2020 19:17
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There is a distinct opportunity to change this with Hawkins and the ecosocialist wing of the party coming to power, and a good showing by Hawkins this year would essentially cement that change and make the Green party something useful down the road.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:18
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:There is a distinct opportunity to change this with Hawkins and the ecosocialist wing of the party coming to power, and a good showing by Hawkins this year would essentially cement that change and make the Green party something useful down the road. given that only 4% of bernie supporters say they won't be supporting biden, idk if that's going to be happening in 2020 when trump dragging us all into a pandemic, a depression, and fascism are the defining issues
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Jul 27, 2020 19:22
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How are u posted:The Green party has proven time and time again that it's not interested in winning elections and governing. this sentence being spoken in defense of the Democratic party is loving delectable pop quiz: what is the Democratic Candidate for President's stance on whether Republicans should beat Democrats in swing districts
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Jul 27, 2020 19:22
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:There is a distinct opportunity to change this with Hawkins and the ecosocialist wing of the party coming to power, and a good showing by Hawkins this year would essentially cement that change and make the Green party something useful down the road. I would genuinely like to see the Greens attempt to run in elections other than the Presidential, and make a good-faith effort to grow their party in state and locals. Hopefully they understand that they need to actually win elections, govern, and build a reputation in the eyes of voters as a serious party and not a vanity vote.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:22
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As a Canadian, Biden represents the best hope for a better outcome for me and other Canadians for whom Trump represents an existential danger towards. If I were American and could vote, a few months ago it would've been an uncomfortable choice, but now it's quite clear to me that even if I were American I would have no regrets come November and should Biden win I will be filled with relief that Trump can no longer continue to harm my country.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:22
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How are u posted:I would genuinely like to see the Greens attempt to run in elections other than the Presidential, and make a good-faith effort to grow their party in state and locals. Hopefully they understand that they need to actually win elections, govern, and build a reputation in the eyes of voters as a serious party and not a vanity vote. what, you mean like the DSA?
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Jul 27, 2020 19:23
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The logic against voting Green is circular: Greens are irrelevant and have not proven their fitness to govern like the Democrats. But you shouldn’t vote for them so they have a better chance at relevancy, because they’re a fringe party with little or no power.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:23
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Herstory Begins Now posted:given that only 4% of bernie supporters say they won't be supporting biden, idk if that's going to be happening in 2020 when trump dragging us all into a pandemic, a depression, and fascism are the defining issues what part of a Joe Biden administration do you think is going to solve any of the above as a reminder, his current stance on what should be done with the child concentration camps is "well we'll stop privatizing them. not gonna get rid of them though, we might need them later"
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Jul 27, 2020 19:24
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I believe, as we were told by the Warren fans constantly as if it was brilliant political analysis, he becomes a viable candidate if you vote for him. I'm not holding any illusions about some insane 'lol green wave' situation but yes I feel that there's more to be gained by gambling on making greens viable than there is to be lost and you can't play the dumb 'well nobody votes for them so they're bad obviously' game with that kind of basic math.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:25
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sexpig by night posted:I don't wanna believe it'll happen, but really Biden seeing all of this poo poo happening and going 'aaah...but a BLACK cop...that'll calm both sides...' is the most Biden option Still laughing that it was obviously going to be Klob until killer cop killed again. Now the Harris camp has to spend each day in prayer that the cops Harris passed on prosecuting during her tenure as a DA/AG don't get hungry for blood until she's been officially locked in as the running mate.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:25
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Herstory Begins Now posted:what, you mean like the DSA? I'm not super-plugged into what the DSA is up to nationally. I know that my local chapter is full of very nice people who unfortunately are pretty disorganized and directionless. I haven't even gotten an email blast from them since the Spring. But, my impression is that the DSA is far more interested in becoming a serious political party than the Greens, generally. e: my last email from my local DSA was on May 31st. That's a heck of a drought in communications. I get emails from a dozen Dem groups every couple of days.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:25
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Raenir Salazar posted:As a Canadian, Biden represents the best hope for a better outcome for me and other Canadians for whom Trump represents an existential danger towards. If I were American and could vote, a few months ago it would've been an uncomfortable choice, but now it's quite clear to me that even if I were American I would have no regrets come November and should Biden win I will be filled with relief that Trump can no longer continue to harm my country. I was unaware of the existential threat posed by Trump towards Canada and its citizens, could you elaborate?
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Jul 27, 2020 19:26
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Shere posted:The only thing that could possibly make Joe Biden even more unappealing to me would be making his VP a faux-progressive cop. True, but trump is running his entire campaign on "liberals hate cops and love rioters." A cop loving, minority, woman, senator from state that will just elect an other democrat instantly? Sold. Everyone left of "lets kidnap as many Mexican children as we can" is already voting for trump if they aren't too lazy to register. This is how you really run up the score. Good luck running on "democrats hate cops" against Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:28
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I was unaware of the existential threat posed by Trump towards Canada and its citizens, could you elaborate? Covid for one. He nearly got the US into a war with Iran which almost certainly would have involved Canada. Among innumerable other reasons that are important but I feel have been debated to death.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:29
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spunkshui posted:True, but trump is running his entire campaign on "liberals hate cops and love rioters." we regret to inform you Trump is still running on 'democrats hate cops' against Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:29
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Raenir Salazar posted:Covid for one. He nearly got the US into a war with Iran which almost certainly would have involved Canada. Among innumerable other reasons that are important but I feel have been debated to death. is Joe gonna do a national lockdown and end the forever wars he supports that also involve Canada
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Jul 27, 2020 19:30
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How are u posted:I would genuinely like to see the Greens attempt to run in elections other than the Presidential, and make a good-faith effort to grow their party in state and locals. Hopefully they understand that they need to actually win elections, govern, and build a reputation in the eyes of voters as a serious party and not a vanity vote. according to this standard, it's better to vote for Republicans than greens since they run in elections other than Presidential
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Jul 27, 2020 19:30
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