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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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sexpig by night posted:we regret to inform you Trump is still running on 'democrats hate cops' against Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Good? That is the dumbest thing you could possibly do. Which is one of trumps strengths. That and remembering 5 words when prompted you would need to do so. In order, mind you.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:31
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How are u posted:I would genuinely like to see the Greens attempt to run in elections other than the Presidential, and make a good-faith effort to grow their party in state and locals. Hopefully they understand that they need to actually win elections, govern, and build a reputation in the eyes of voters as a serious party and not a vanity vote. Why? I thought you said they were a crystal-clearly vanity party for protest votes? Why would you want them to grow their party in state and local elections? I wouldn't! I would first like the control of the party to sit firmly and comfortably in the hands of actual ecosocialists and not crystal antivax facebook moms. A strong showing for the ecosocialists in the 2020 presidential election would bring that much closer to reality, and with that control the ecosocialists could direct state and local campaigns. Now that I think about it, you yourself have claimed (in this very thread!) two things: that you are a socialist, and that Joe Biden will win the presidency in a landslide. You should vote Green, where your vote would be much more valuable, and do greater work.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:31
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Raenir Salazar posted:Covid for one. He nearly got the US into a war with Iran which almost certainly would have involved Canada. Among innumerable other reasons that are important but I feel have been debated to death. Biden actually did help get the US into a war with Iraq that actually did involve Canada, did you know?
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Jul 27, 2020 19:32
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spunkshui posted:True, but trump is running his entire campaign on "liberals hate cops and love rioters." at long last, the answer to the question I asked back in 2018: how the gently caress does Harris get past her brilliant "The State Of California Needs The Slave Labor So You Can't Release These Nonviolent Offenders" play saying "actually, im on record saying we ought to enslave protesters" to own Trump. i put forward now as an excellent time to argue we should vote Biden, in order to stop the descent into fascism
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Jul 27, 2020 19:32
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Timeless Appeal posted:But I think it's ridiculous to then also pretend there is no consequence to the choice of not voting. If you don't vote for Biden--especially if you live in a competiive state--you are making a choice that contributes to Trump getting a higher percentage of your state's popular vote. Lol that's dumb as hell. Millions of people are gonna cast their vote regardless of what you do. Your vote doe snot amgically influence theirs. If Trump wins it has nothing to do with your individual vote. To try and put the blame on people for not voting Biden is part of the stupid American philosophy or recasting everything as individual choice and responsibility. This dumb election already has made your vote pointless in a hundred different ways before you even get to the polls. Who you vote or do not vote for is your choice and does not make you responsible for the choices of others. If Trump wins it's not because one dumbass decided he didn't want to vote for a loving rapist. It's because of the campaign, the media, the supporters, the other guys' campaign and supporters, the vote suppression, the courts, etc.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:36
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:i put forward now as an excellent time to argue we should vote Biden, in order to stop the descent into fascism Go ahead and argue why we should keep trump. I'm all loving ears.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:36
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Raenir Salazar posted:Covid for one. He nearly got the US into a war with Iran which almost certainly would have involved Canada. Among innumerable other reasons that are important but I feel have been debated to death. Trump de-escalated with Iran because he was afraid of civilian casualties, something no other Democrat or Republican would have done. Trump is a piece of poo poo racist rapist but he's somehow better on war with Iran than most politicians. It boggles the mind.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:38
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spunkshui posted:Go ahead and argue why we should keep trump. what will biden and a violent transphobic racist like Harris do better other than 'tweet less'
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Jul 27, 2020 19:39
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Trump: "Harris is an anarchist! She wants to end prison labor!" Harris: "Nuh-uh, I'm not, I swear to you if I am elected America will have more prison labor than ever before!"
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Jul 27, 2020 19:41
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MonsieurChoc posted:Lol that's dumb as hell. yeah the argument really does come down to magical thinking, that somehow millions of people will clairvoyantly know what name I check in the privacy of the voting booth and it will ineluctably force them all to vote Green too (and bizarrely, even though I just magically compelled tens of millions of Americans to vote Green, Green can paradoxically never win)
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Jul 27, 2020 19:43
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VitalSigns posted:how committed to those good policies is someone critically lacking in empathy who considers, at the very least, other human beings as objects for the satisfaction of his physical or psychological desires I dunno I guess since like probably a dozen or more former presidents, not to mention lots of world leaders throughout history have been rapists and some of them have also generally been considered competent leaders, the connection isn't that strong. I agree with you that Biden's record indicates that he's not going to pursue any good poo poo either. That's why I think this is a really good self-aware post: Pentecoastal Elites posted:FWIW -- and this is for me personally, feel free to disagree -- focusing on Reade and Biden's extremely gross history with women is about trying to force liberals to reckon with Biden being antithetical to something they supposedly care about (believing rape survivors, the safety of women, and the metoo movement in general), because the things that I, as a leftist, think immediately disqualify Biden from the presidency (bussing, close personal friendships to heinous racists, crime bill, war on drugs, blatant corruption, Iraq war, being in the pocket of the insurance industry etc. etc. etc) are things liberals either like, don't care about, or think is unfortunate but ultimately pragmatic/understandable. and that's why I think the whole angle isn't worth the time. I'm not quite sure what would get people to reassess their support for Biden but we have ample recent evidence that credible allegations of rape aren't going to do it, for either party, in the form of Donald Trump and Bill Clinton.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:45
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The "Republicans will say it no matter what!" argument is kind of dumb sometimes, because Republicans can say it, but how effective of an argument it is depends on large part if the electorate finds it credible. To take a very abstract example, if the GOP wanted to run on "Joe Biden is rapist', that could be effective, because there is evidence he's a rapist. But if they ran on "Barack Obama is a rapist", it would just seem stupid and racist as gently caress because there is no evidence that Barack Obama is a rapist. Of course, nobody in America thinks Joe Biden is a far-left cop-hating radical anyway, and nobody would think that no matter who he picked, really, so picking someone like Harris (or Demmings, who seems to have fallen completely out of the running) to shore up the "Democrat, but likes cops" votes makes about as much sense as picking Tim Kaine to shore up Virginia.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:47
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MonsieurChoc posted:Trump de-escalated with Iran because he was afraid of civilian casualties, something no other Democrat or Republican would have done. Trump didn't de-escalate. Iran did. From a situation caused by Trump assassinating an Iranian military leader. Additionally the airline shot down was due to Trump escalating tensions in the first place dating back to when Trump withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal; which would've prevented Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. What Trump has done is simply setup a bomb that will ignite a new conflict but on a delayed fuse, one that will go off when he's no longer in office. Unless of course a new nuclear agreement is signed. I don't know why you chose to rearrange reality in a way that paints the most forgiving and positive possible spin of those events in a way that paints Trump in positive light; while strategically leaving out the context that makes it Trump's fault in the first place. It's laughable to suggest that Trump was concerned for civilian casualties, he was scared of getting into a scrap with someone who could punch back when all he wanted to do was act like a bully.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:47
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cda posted:I dunno I guess since like probably a dozen or more former presidents, not to mention lots of world leaders throughout history have been rapists and some of them have also generally been considered competent leaders, the connection isn't that strong. I agree with you that Biden's record indicates that he's not going to pursue any good poo poo either. That's why I think this is a really good self-aware post: The term "competent leader" seems to be doing a lot of work here. Was Franco a competent leader? You can maybe make the case that a rapist can be competent at directing an organization to achieve its goals, but that's not the same thing as his leadership actually being a positive for humanity.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:49
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MonsieurChoc posted:Trump de-escalated with Iran because he was afraid of civilian casualties, something no other Democrat or Republican would have done. I think this bears repeating ad infinitum, honestly. Trump is literally the least reprehensible American president for as long as I've been alive, just by virtue of not killing as many people in other countries as possible.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:50
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sexpig by night posted:what will biden and a violent transphobic racist like Harris do better other than 'tweet less' Do you think they will try to build a 30 foot wall? Leave the WHO? Take pandemic data from the CDC? Biden has been promoting masks for like 4 loving months....
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Jul 27, 2020 19:51
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takes two to tango, trump is unable to stick to a line of escalation and this is legitimately unusually good for a US president anyway one's individual vote doesn't actually matter electorally, so imo one should vote for something one can support, since a vote by definition is a statement of support. imo there is no real positive case for biden, which is consistently borne out by his supporters refusing to try and make it
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Jul 27, 2020 19:51
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Mellow Seas posted:The "Republicans will say it no matter what!" argument is kind of dumb sometimes, because Republicans can say it, but how effective of an argument it is depends on large part if the electorate finds it credible. idk man there's no evidence Hillary killed Vince Foster or Seth Rich yet that didn't stop the attacks from being credible to a whoooole lotta people Classon Ave. Robot posted:I think this bears repeating ad infinitum, honestly. Trump is literally the least reprehensible American president for as long as I've been alive, just by virtue of not killing as many people in other countries as possible. only if your calculus assigns worth to non-American lives, and we're talking about American liberalism here so lol
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Jul 27, 2020 19:51
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Raenir Salazar posted:Trump didn't de-escalate. Iran did. From a situation caused by Trump assassinating an Iranian military leader. Additionally the airline shot down was due to Trump escalating tensions in the first place dating back to when Trump withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal; which would've prevented Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. What Trump has done is simply setup a bomb that will ignite a new conflict but on a delayed fuse, one that will go off when he's no longer in office. Unless of course a new nuclear agreement is signed. I don't know why you chose to rearrange reality in a way that paints the most forgiving and positive possible spin of those events in a way that paints Trump in positive light; while strategically leaving out the context that makes it Trump's fault in the first place. It's laughable to suggest that Trump was concerned for civilian casualties, he was scared of getting into a scrap with someone who could punch back when all he wanted to do was act like a bully. You're conflating multiple events. The "go to war with Iran right now" event was a drone being shot down by Iran in summer of 2019. Trump called off the plans for further retaliatory strikes at the last moment, upsetting Bolton and his other advisors who had engineered the situation specifically to create the casus belli needed to finally start bombing inside of Iran. The general getting murdered by the US in January of this year caused Iran to fire a bunch of missiles into Iraq and then nothing further when neither side bit on continuing aggression. Then COVID happened and everything locked down anyways.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:52
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spunkshui posted:Don you think they will try to build a 30 foot wall? uh well Biden's big thing for a while was to try to force 'outside observers and expert'...into China? Like invade them with doctors to force them to give their data over to blame them for the disease? Also yes, Biden has historically supported very draconian border poo poo
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Jul 27, 2020 19:52
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also as others have noted, trump is causing serious damage to the american imperial project, which imo is also a good thing
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Jul 27, 2020 19:53
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:I think this bears repeating ad infinitum, honestly. Trump is literally the least reprehensible American president for as long as I've been alive, just by virtue of not killing as many people in other countries as possible. This reeks of privilege.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:53
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VitalSigns posted:idk man there's no evidence Hillary killed Vince Foster or Seth Rich yet that didn't stop the attacks from being credible to a whoooole lotta people They were credible to far-right people who already hated the Clintons. Like, yeah, there are probably far-right wing Nazis that you can actually convince Joe Biden hates cops, but they were never going to vote for any Democrat under any circumstance. Saying that Hillary killed people (which nobody ever "ran on", it's just a RWM canard) never convinced anybody not to vote for her. More nebulous but believable poo poo like "She [something something] Benghazi" or "She emailed wrong" were effective.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:54
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MonsieurChoc posted:Trump de-escalated with Iran because he was afraid of civilian casualties, something no other Democrat or Republican would have done. So then a rapist can be a good president? 
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Jul 27, 2020 19:55
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Mellow Seas posted:They were credible to far-right people who already hated the Clintons. Like, yeah, there are probably far-right wing Nazis that you can actually convince Joe Biden hates cops, but they were never going to vote for any Democrat under any circumstance. Saying that Hillary killed people (which nobody ever "ran on", it's just a RWM canard) never convinced anybody not to vote for her. More nebulous but believable poo poo like "She [something something] Benghazi" or "She emailed wrong" were effective. hm yeah ok I guess that's true
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Jul 27, 2020 19:55
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spunkshui posted:Do you think they will try to build a 30 foot wall? Do you honestly think they won't complete the border wall? I mean, it's already being built and all it's going to take is a whiff of sunk cost to just go along with it. I feel like Biden has already indicated such. Oh right. https://twitter.com/BoKnowsNews/status/1261074479767117826 And funny, before Biden promoted masks he also promoted in-person pandemic voting.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:57
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V. Illych L. posted:also as others have noted, trump is causing serious damage to the american imperial project, which imo is also a good thing I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I understand the argument for how that's happening, and it certainly looks that way, but I am reminded of how often in America's more recent history it turns out that what might appear to be a blow to the empire (like say the Vietnam War) turns out to somehow not be. Perhaps the issue is that if you go around wrecking a lot of stuff indiscriminately and without careful consideration you don't end up making things better, just making things bad in a way that the empire then becomes even worse to "solve." This is not a fully developed thought by me but I think it's worth considering that this apparent damage is only damage to the *form* of Empire and not to the *project* if that makes sense (possibly no).
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Jul 27, 2020 19:58
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Shere posted:Do you honestly think they won't complete the border wall? I mean, it's already being built and all it's going to take is a whiff of sunk cost to just go along with it. I feel like Biden has already indicated such. Oh right. Listen, you can't just leave a wall half-finished! Maybe we revisit the plans, and the barbed wire at the top can be rainbow-colored in honor of LGBT immigrants?
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Jul 27, 2020 19:59
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Listen, you can't just leave a wall half-finished! Maybe we revisit the plans, and the barbed wire at the top can be rainbow-colored in honor of LGBT immigrants? More Hispanic women as concentration camp guards. I'm sure that will fix it.
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Jul 27, 2020 20:02
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Shere posted:And funny, before Biden promoted masks he also promoted in-person pandemic voting. Does he still? Trump still does. Great arguments lol
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Jul 27, 2020 20:04
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spunkshui posted:This reeks of privilege. Do Americans believe that being born in one of the countries that the American military kills countless thousands of people in is a form of privilege? That's certainly a take.
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Jul 27, 2020 20:04
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:Do Americans believe that being born in one of the countries that the American military kills countless thousands of people in is a form of privilege? That's certainly a take. I'm not buying the argument that trump hasn't caused horrors overseas. Nor am I buying the argument he hasn't made life much worse for most people of lower income in america.
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Jul 27, 2020 20:06
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spunkshui posted:Does he still? both of them have told you it's your job to die if your death will facilitate their power, friend. and have been extremely open about their plans to do that to an awful lot more people. you can make the argument that you're pretty sure Biden's not gonna sacrifice anyone you care about, and maybe even win it if your friends and family are white, upper-crust, and healthy enough, but the illusion that unlike Trump, Biden gives a poo poo about human suffering is trivially dispelled
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Jul 27, 2020 20:10
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cda posted:and that's why I think the whole angle isn't worth the time. I'm not quite sure what would get people to reassess their support for Biden but we have ample recent evidence that credible allegations of rape aren't going to do it, for either party, in the form of Donald Trump and Bill Clinton. Frankly, I don't think anything can and no amount of argument from leftists ITT and elsewhere will do anything to prevent the liberals arguing here from happily pulling the lever (or mailing the letter, as the case may be) for Joe in November. That said, as frustrating as it is at times I think this thread is a net positive because it is a real mask-off examination of who liberals are, what they actually believe, and the extent to which they'll tie themselves into knots to try and preserve the feeling that they're the pragmatic adults in a room of whining, entitled leftists.
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Jul 27, 2020 20:12
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To deny the fact that Trump has caused less human suffering overall while in office than Obama, Bush 2, Clinton, or Bush 1 is absurd on its face. Jesus Christ, Obama and Biden brought open air slave markets to a country with one of the highest standards of living in Africa. The only positive way forward for America necessarily includes the dissolution of the democratic party and it's replacement with something good.
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Jul 27, 2020 20:13
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spunkshui posted:Nor am I buying the argument he hasn't made life much worse for most people of lower income in america. What has Trump done specifically to make life much worse for most people of lower income in america that wasn't already happening and/or generally or fully supported by the Democrats? I'll also be very impressed if you can find something that Joe Biden hasn't either intimated or directly stated that he has no plans to stop.
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Jul 27, 2020 20:14
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:Do Americans believe that being born in one of the countries that the American military kills countless thousands of people in is a form of privilege? That's certainly a take. I personally believe that it's probably a pretty complicated calculus outside of george w bush to determine who's the worst, a la for example this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...f125_story.html
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Jul 27, 2020 20:17
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spunkshui posted:Does he still? I don't know, I haven't checked, is that generally something you forgive? How many people died as a result, I wonder, and what won't you give him a pass on? You're really okay with voting for someone who will happily let voters and poll workers die if it suits the needs of his campaign? I'm not even saying that Joe Biden himself could have delayed voting in AZ, IL, FL, or later WI, but when he in fact did the opposite and proselytized pandemic voting I felt it spoke plenty to what mattered to him. This wasn't some "oopsies we didn't know the pandemic would be a big deal" thing either, here's what the Sander's campaign was saying on March 17th: https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1239939331038621696 And here's what the Biden campaign was saying: https://twitter.com/aVoice4MA6/status/1239981420149379073 And here's the aftermath: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article241539451.html https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020/03/30/duval-county-poll-worker-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...ls-say/2255072/ https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/04/13/poll-worker-who-was-on-duty-on-south-side-for-march-17-primary-dies-of-coronavirus/ etc. Solanumai fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 20:19
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cda posted:I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I understand the argument for how that's happening, and it certainly looks that way, but I am reminded of how often in America's more recent history it turns out that what might appear to be a blow to the empire (like say the Vietnam War) turns out to somehow not be. Perhaps the issue is that if you go around wrecking a lot of stuff indiscriminately and without careful consideration you don't end up making things better, just making things bad in a way that the empire then becomes even worse to "solve." This is not a fully developed thought by me but I think it's worth considering that this apparent damage is only damage to the *form* of Empire and not to the *project* if that makes sense (possibly no). i'm pretty sure that vietnam was a serious blow to the american empire and caused lasting difficulties in mobilising direct military interventions for a long time give trump four more years and he might actually dismantle NATO like he threatened to
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Jul 27, 2020 20:20
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:Jesus Christ, Obama and Biden brought open air slave markets to a country with one of the highest standards of living in Africa. The only positive way forward for America necessarily includes the dissolution of the democratic party and it's replacement with something good. That is such a weird way of looking at everything that happened in Libya during the Arab Spring. Obama didn't topple that government or institute open-air slave markets.
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Jul 27, 2020 20:21
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