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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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Probably Magic posted:I mean, I just need healthcare, there is no loving "victory lap" for me to take. Yeah I've had to go to the hospital for recurring crippling ear aches 3x in the last year, they just give me antibiotics and pain meds and tell me to leave and go to a specialist, which I can't afford
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Jul 28, 2020 01:57
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Mellow Seas posted:Take a victory lap, I guess. No-one won on this one. There's no "victory" when we all genuinely, deeply wanted to be proven wrong. Honestly I desperately loving wanted to eat a ban because hell it turned out Biden actually might be forced to put forward some poo poo that is good, best to eat that crow while it's still warm, but... I know I'm on your list of posting enemies at this point but I'm genuinely sorry that they disappointed you.
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Jul 28, 2020 02:20
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biden is not the Democratic National Convention* Platform Committee, and strictly speaking, the DNC Platform Committee is not the Democratic Convention's platform, but it's not great * - i guarantee there's also some confusion in this here thread about DNC vs DNC; in this case it's the proto-convention's platform committee, not the Interim Between-Conventions Overlord Council's platform committee
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Jul 28, 2020 02:38
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Mellow Seas posted:I know that because some people hold the position that "everything the Democratic party does is bad", and therefore think that if somebody disagrees with them on that, "they must think everything the Democratic party does is good." It's like when loving Fox watchers think any liberal or leftist loves CNN. This isn't hard. A used cars salesman promising me that all their cars are in excellent shape is meaningless. A used cars salesman saying that their cars are not in good condition is meaningful. And the latter is true even if the "don't trust used cars salesman" advice still applies.
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Jul 28, 2020 02:54
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GreyjoyBastard posted:biden is not the Democratic National Convention* Platform Committee, I don't really see how that's relevant unless you're going to make an argument that these people don't represent the interests of the Democratic establishment as a whole and wield a huge amount of influence over what the party does? There's still no progressive way forward for America that doesn't include the dissolution of the Democratic party.
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Jul 28, 2020 02:58
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ColonelMuttonchops posted:Because we need to Restore the Soul of America™. Which is, uhh, zionism apparently. Well, considering what America did to the natives, it's accurate.
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Jul 28, 2020 03:27
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joepinetree posted:This isn't hard. A used cars salesman promising me that all their cars are in excellent shape is meaningless. A used cars salesman saying that their cars are not in good condition is meaningful. And the latter is true even if the "don't trust used cars salesman" advice still applies. I guess life is easier when you believe in loving nothing, then yea nothing means anything when you say it
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Jul 28, 2020 03:44
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Most progressive policy platform ever!!!!!!
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Jul 28, 2020 05:19
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I think this really goes to show that Biden and the democrats literally don't want the votes of progressives or liberals or leftists. They believe those votes are already locked up, they are obliged to Vote Blue No Matter Who. No, what they really have to appeal to are conservative suburbanites, and if that means botching easy layups like loving weed, then so be it.
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Jul 28, 2020 05:21
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What groups are even opposed to Marijuana legalization at this point? Maybe just evangelicals?
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Jul 28, 2020 05:24
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bobjr posted:What groups are even opposed to Marijuana legalization at this point? Maybe just evangelicals? going by donations to anti-legalization lobbying cops, private prison contractors, pharmaceutical companies, and alcohol and tobacco companies and wholesalers
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Jul 28, 2020 05:38
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bobjr posted:What groups are even opposed to Marijuana legalization at this point? Maybe just evangelicals? Not even them. Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker are hocking hemp on their show at this point. Like, for real. This is literally regression for the sheer gently caress of it.
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Jul 28, 2020 05:52
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Mellow Seas posted:Anyway I've been told a million loving times in this thread that party platforms don't mean anything, and it's just meaningless pandering, but I guess that only counts when you're appeasing the left, and nobody would ever pander to AIPAC. Basically what joepinetree said (which should be immediately obvious), but there's also the fact that there's a default assumed stance and the "push Biden/Democrats left" thing is assuming behavior contrary to the norm. In a case like this, there's a heavy burden on a politician like Biden (and the Democratic Party in general) to prove that they're actually serious about changing/moving to the left. This means that recent/contemporary incidents where they state right-wing opinions (or state that they won't do left things) carry heavy weight towards the conclusion that they're not being serious. It's not like one good statement cancels out a bad one; the bad one implies that the good one is a lie. It simply doesn't make sense for someone to look at the history of the Democratic Party and not treat it as a hostile institution that won't change unless heavily coerced. All the "we can push them to the left" stuff seems to assume that the Democratic Party is more or less ambivalent about policy/ideology and is willing to support whatever is popular, but the actual history and facts do not support this interpretation.
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Jul 28, 2020 05:55
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bobjr posted:What groups are even opposed to Marijuana legalization at this point? Maybe just evangelicals? Well, for starters, Biden, the guy they are running for their party. The guy that helped create the whole war on drugs and then the for-profit slave labor prison system in this country. So not very surprising.
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Jul 28, 2020 06:01
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Mellow Seas posted:I know that because some people hold the position that "everything the Democratic party does is bad", and therefore think that if somebody disagrees with them on that, "they must think everything the Democratic party does is good." It's like when loving Fox watchers think any liberal or leftist loves CNN. This is a particularly ridiculous thing to say now that we have definite proof that all the talk about Biden being the "most progressive candidate ever" was just lies and when the time has come to make things official they won't even bother with pandering to the left. Mellow Seas posted:I believe it - my limited understanding is that there was already a Syria-level total destruction civil war happening, and it’s hard to imagine things being any worse than that. Perhaps Obama, Hillary and our allies achieved that. I haven’t read anything in depth about it, if anybody has anything they want to share I’d be appreciative, otherwise I can look on my own because it’s nobody’s job to do my research for me. Your understanding is completely wrong. We have hard evidence that not only did western leaders have no clue about what was actually going on in Libya at the time, but that when people looked into what had actually happened afterwards it turned out that there is no evidence that any of the supposed atrocities that were pitched as a justification even happened. In other words the whole war was based on Iraq-tier lies and bullshit and was launched mainly because the French wanted to get rid of Gaddafi for unrelated reasons. Some money quotes: quote:Despite his rhetoric, the proposition that Muammar Gaddafi would have ordered the massacre of civilians in Benghazi was not supported by the available evidence. The Gaddafi regime had retaken towns from the rebels without attacking civilians in early February 2011. During fighting in Misrata, the hospital recorded 257 people killed and 949 people wounded in February and March 2011. Those casualties included 22 women and eight children. Libyan doctors told United Nations investigators that Tripoli’s morgues contained more than 200 corpses following fighting in late February 2011, of whom two were female. The disparity between male and female casualties suggested that Gaddafi regime forces targeted male combatants in a civil war and did not indiscriminately attack civilians. More widely, Muammar Gaddafi’s 40-year record of appalling human rights abuses did not include large-scale attacks on Libyan civilians. quote:An Amnesty International investigation in June 2011 could not corroborate allegations of mass human rights violations by Gaddafi regime troops. However, it uncovered evidence that rebels in Benghazi made false claims and manufactured evidence. quote:Many Western policymakers genuinely believed that Muammar Gaddafi would have ordered his troops to massacre civilians in Benghazi, if those forces had been able to enter the city. However, while Muammar Gaddafi certainly threatened violence against those who took up arms against his rule, this did not necessarily translate into a threat to everyone in Benghazi. In short, the scale of the threat to civilians was presented with unjustified certainty. US intelligence officials reportedly described the intervention as “an intelligence-light decision”.
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Jul 28, 2020 07:31
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my government at the time, the most left-wing government of my lifetime, joined the intervention off a couple of text messages lol libya was bad, but thousands-dead bad. it got a *lot* worse when NATO blasted any semblance of government to smithereens without even helping their allies secure power i sincerely understand the impulse to not simply allow an rear end in a top hat like gadaffi to win, but military intervention of this sort never works out. it didn't even work for the soviets in afghanistan, who desperately wished to believe that they were making things better for the afghans. also, even on these forums, people were buying some lurid poo poo about gadaffi sending viagra'd-up chadian mercenaries to do mass rapes which was straight-up fabricated and in retrospect incredibly racist the point being, the military is designed to blow poo poo up and that will always be its preferred solution to complications. if you decide to just blow up the government of a country with a lot of armed men running about, you have to assume that those armed men are going to find something else to so with their weapons. it was a disaster and a huge overstepping of the actual UN mandate in place, which was a no-fly zone and not the systematic degradation of libya's army and government
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Jul 28, 2020 10:54
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Timeless Appeal posted:Honestly, I think it depends on the context which I don't think is an answer that I myself am comfortable with. This is exactly why a lot of the people that don't vote, myself included now, have decided not to. I just don't want to be a part of this horseshit anymore. I want moderate policies like healthcare for everyone, paid time off mandated by government, and a living wage but because we have two right wing parties I will never see those things. Why even bother.
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Jul 28, 2020 11:36
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How are u posted:I would genuinely like to see the Greens attempt to run in elections other than the Presidential, and make a good-faith effort to grow their party in state and locals. Hopefully they understand that they need to actually win elections, govern, and build a reputation in the eyes of voters as a serious party and not a vanity vote. This. I would love to see this. The fact there is no other options other than two right wing parties is bullshit.
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Jul 28, 2020 13:17
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is pepsi ok posted:https://twitter.com/WeWorkPRGuy1/status/1287879395932172288?s=20 Aren’t most democrats for M4A? What is the DNC achieving here?
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Jul 28, 2020 13:23
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Maria Juana posted:Aren’t most democrats for M4A? What is the DNC achieving here? they're signalling to their constituents, who significantly include the financial services sector, that the basic structure of american healthcare provision will be left intact. this means donations are going to keep going to the democrats and their associated think tanks and civil society organisations, and help let the people in charge stay in charge
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Jul 28, 2020 13:33
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the democrats' calculus is that they really don't have to serve non-monetary interests because they can always spin up a boogeyman on the other team to motivate actual voters. this is how it goes in contemporary politics - workers get the stick, capital gets the carrot. this will continue until a means to refuse the stick is found and it's made evident that it's real.
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Jul 28, 2020 13:37
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Maria Juana posted:Aren’t most democrats for M4A? What is the DNC achieving here? The only democrats that matter to the DNC are the ones that sit on company boards and hire their lovely failchildren.
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Jul 28, 2020 13:38
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I don't know if dem leadership realizes just how poisonous the platform headlines are. I've never seen decades long self described liberals in my social circle throwing in the towel like this before. Maybe leadership is used to the platform being more of a donor inner circle signalling circle jerk but with the pandemic there's a lot of eyeballs and it's wrecking the will of my friends to head to their new crowded polling places during a pandemic as many still haven't received their absentee ballot they applied for weeks ago. This is worse than when Kerry was the nom in my little section of 90% dem country in Minnesota. I can't imagine how awful enthusiasm is in other parts of the country.
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Jul 28, 2020 13:42
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Souai posted:I don't know if dem leadership realizes just how poisonous the platform headlines are. Dems are enthusiastic to vote out Trump, thats why Biden is the nominee. Why would the Dem leadership be concerned, as far as they can see theyve been proven right every time.
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Jul 28, 2020 13:50
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Biden voters have made it overwhelmingly clear that the only campaign promise they want is for the bad orange man to be voted out. Biden could literally do everything Trump is currently doing right now, beat for beat, and his voters would lap it up because it's him doing it and not Trump.
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Jul 28, 2020 13:54
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This is basically just the result of the VBNMW mantra.
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Jul 28, 2020 13:57
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ManBoyChef posted:This is exactly why a lot of the people that don't vote, myself included now, have decided not to. I just don't want to be a part of this horseshit anymore. I want moderate policies like healthcare for everyone, paid time off mandated by government, and a living wage but because we have two right wing parties I will never see those things. Why even bother. I can respect someone saying the system is so hosed up they want know part of it or that Biden is such a potentially damaging force that there is no clear better choice, and if Trump wins, so be it. And I can respect people who actual believes in the Green Party or any other reasonable third party and try to advance them. What I don't respect is if you think Biden SHOULD be President given the choice between him and Trump, like that is what you reasonably hope happens, and you don't vote that way.* Because you're fundamentally discounting the individuality of the people who did vote the way you hoped they would. Such an outlook of the world where other voters are just sheeple who blindly vote for their tribes, but you're a special enlightened thinker whose vote gets to be an expression of your inner-heart. In that case you can yell about progressiveness on the internet, but you're not actually living those values. You're living with a very libertarian mindset. *I guess the exception is once against if you really believe in getting a third party to 5% and do things outside of just voting for them to advance them. I feel like the "I'm going to get the Greens to 5%" feels disingenuous if your'e not advocating them through anything besides voting or a Presidential year. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 14:06
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Hopefully morning consult is one of the silly polling places that resamples folks over time so they can see the two 'enthusiastic' Biden voters they hit last week flip to gently caress this poo poo.
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Jul 28, 2020 14:13
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Souai posted:I don't know if dem leadership realizes just how poisonous the platform headlines are. https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1287948808442318850 Fundamentally, the dems are trying to drive away any demographic that wants them to do anything, and everything they do makes sense under that rubric.
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Jul 28, 2020 14:19
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I'm glad Trump is running so he can push Biden left
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Jul 28, 2020 14:19
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CodeJanitor posted:Well, for starters, Biden, the guy they are running for their party. The guy that helped create the whole war on drugs and then the for-profit slave labor prison system in this country. So not very surprising. Biden also believes marijuana is a gateway drug and causes reefer madness lol
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Jul 28, 2020 14:21
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Souai posted:Hopefully morning consult is one of the silly polling places that resamples folks over time so they can see the two 'enthusiastic' Biden voters they hit last week flip to gently caress this poo poo. Anybody who was already an "enthusiastic Biden voter" is not going to be turned off by this poo poo; it's all perfectly on-brand for him. It just irritates people who are already supporting him reluctantly. The policies are bad policies because they're bad for people, not because of short-term politics. The political consequences of poo poo like this are a slow-burn disillusionment thing, and the long term consequences are bad (2016 is an early indicator), but as far as the 2020 cycle goes there isn't much downside. Eventually people want something to get done, and will get angry when it doesn't, but this year it will be perfectly fine, electorally, to rely on, as a goon leftist or a right wing twitter bot might call it, "orange man bad". E: PsychedelicWarlord posted:Biden also believes marijuana is a gateway drug and causes reefer madness lol Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 14:26
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Yeah. The thing that people need to understand is that politics isn't this tug of war where moving two inches to the left is equally good for everyone on the left. Biden isn't a watered down Bernie. Biden represents fundamentally different class interests from Bernie. This isn't physics where you apply a little more pressure and the center slides left. Biden is against medicare for all because it is against the class interests that he represents. To think that Biden can be pushed left on anything is to completely misunderstand why the forces that coalesced around him did that.
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Jul 28, 2020 14:32
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Christ, the gall of publicly stomping out m4a during a pandemic. they can't even pretend with an otherwise meaningless policy platform to be progressive. I was thinking they'd at least do the Obama thing and publicly appear progressive, but I guess they've decided that mask doesn't matter anymore.
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Jul 28, 2020 14:32
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It’s almost like they know they can be as regressive as they want because the only other option is Trump. It’s sickening.
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Jul 28, 2020 14:37
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Maria Juana posted:It’s almost like they know they can be as regressive as they want because the only other option is Trump. It’s sickening. This is why they perpetuate the idea that you only have 2 options and nothing else is realistic. As long as they can get you to swallow that, then they can peddle out however many utter garbage people they want and sleep easy knowing that you'll be forced to take one and be grateful for it, because what else are you gonna do? Vote for the other guy? 
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Jul 28, 2020 14:46
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Maria Juana posted:It’s almost like they know they can be as regressive as they want because the only other option is Trump. It’s sickening. Direct Action is an option. Voting third party is an option. Not voting is an option.
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Jul 28, 2020 14:50
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Timeless Appeal posted:I respect that, and I do follow your posts and really agree with your frustration that the aggregate of both parties are frustratingly conservative. Honestly, I am just sick of voting in national elections always being a hostage crisis. Im sick of the lesser of two evils always getting to be more and more evil. I am fed up with the fact the "good" party is just as corporate owned as the bad party. At the end of the day nothing changes. Kids will still be in cages. I will still be in poverty and unable to afford my medication, America will still be a force for bad around the world. Yeah some wokeness will be different, but when you are in crisis mode who cares?
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Jul 28, 2020 15:01
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Timeless Appeal posted:I respect that, and I do follow your posts and really agree with your frustration that the aggregate of both parties are frustratingly conservative. Materially, my vote can either go to a credibly accused rapist who doesn't care about me or the entire economic class that I belong to, or it can go to getting a third voice that I don't find completely repulsive in the fight for next time. That's all the calculus I have to do to vote for Green. Whether or not it feels "disingenuous" is something you have to find the source of - all I ever hear from anyone is the old Simpson's meme "Go ahead! Throw away your votes!" which I shouldn't have to point out is meant to be a joke. Ever wonder who or what convinced you that voting outside of the main two parties is a waste? Couldn't be that these parties constantly demonize third party voters on purpose, could it? Yes, lets blame Jill Stein for Hillary losing when 40% of the country didn't loving vote, that makes sense. And before we go down the path of low voter turnout, tell me who defunded ACORN. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. All I ever see as a counterpoint in this thread is that the Green party isn't a real party and no poo poo sherlock congratulations you cracked the code: serious opposition to your party can never materialize if you're willing to constantly overlook their flaws and sacrifice your beliefs to vote for them, even as they betray you time and time again. I'm not some "enlightened voter" I'm just someone who realized the system doesn't work at all if people continue to vote against themselves. e: spelling, phone posting Solanumai fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 15:03
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Shere posted:Materially, my vote can either go to a credibly accused rapist who doesn't care about me or the entire economic class that I belong to, or it can go to getting a third voice that I don't find completely repulsive in the fight for next time. That's all the calculus I have to do to vote for Green. Whether or not it feels "disingenuous" is something you have to find the source of - all I ever hear from anyone is the old Simpson's meme "Go ahead! Throw away your votes!" which I shouldn't have to point out is meant to be a joke. Its a big club and we are not invited.
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Jul 28, 2020 15:12
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