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I can't imagine it would. Most of the electronics would already have been there and the handful of sensors needed was probably less than 20 lbs. Actually, I just looked it up. The 2020 model it's a whopping 4lbs heavier than the 2017. And the CTR can't really talk about packaging decisions based only around performance as long as it's rocking 20" wheels.
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Jul 29, 2020 02:45
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Guinness posted:The most fun you can have in a new car under 50mph is in a Mazda Miata I disagree, the MINI Cooper S I just got is more fun than the 2016 Miata I had a few years ago. It’s still a go kart
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Jul 29, 2020 02:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:just hold out for a couple years and go EV baby Even if the problem of the immature and limited EV market were solved, I live in a condo, not a single-family home with a garage, and my state does not offer incentives to get me into an EV. As far as I know, EV ownership implies a single-family home with a garage, and no one has a real solution to the charging problem besides a massive public charging network. The former probably isn't the future of housing in America, and the latter would require a similarly massive upgrade to our electrical grid, which is more rickety than a 2002 Mazda Protege that has lived in Ohio its entire life. This is a shame as an EV is a perfect solution for 90% of my driving. While I am in a position to buy a new car at this moment, the flux in my personal life and in the broader world will likely lead me to punt a few years. My Optima is paid off, and fulfills the role of transportation well. Maybe the unicorn RWD inline-6 Mazda 6 will be as good as we think it will be, or the hybrid SUVs and trucks from Ford and Toyota will not make me feel awful every time I go to the gas pump. That being said, if my Optima burned down tomorrow, or I took Carvana's $10K offer for it, here are some new cars I would be interested in. The Civic Si and GTI, the standard-bearers of the sport compact segment, would be near the top of the list. The GTI does everything well, and the okay reliability of the Mk7 combined with the Dieselgate Apology Warranty assuages my fears of buying a VW. The Civic Si is there for its incredible value retention in case I wanted to chase down another new car in a few years. The Honda Accord Hybrid, and Lexus ES300h would be perfect dailys for me, but I don't think I'd go in that direction as I'd like a different experience than my Optima. It's also hard to get over the Floridian retiree stigma of the ES. As I don't really need the rear seat and cargo capacity I did when I bought the Optima, I would take the Genesis G70 over the Kia Stinger. The depreciation endemic to the compact luxury segment hurts, but I will eat it given the good reliability and service costs for Hyundai's 6-cylinder vehicles. Finally, I'd look at a Mustang GT and Charger Scat Pack, because you won't be able to buy a naturally-aspirated V8 in a new car a decade from now.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:39
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Frond posted:It’s sort of the opposite of the Chevrolet SS, which “had too many features people didn’t want, a more basic version would have sold” - the Genesis was a stripped down base model with a back to basics manual. Manufacturers must be aware that manual buyers want the biggest engine and the least features, so there must be other reasons why they fail to deliver. I bet Chevy figured that few people would buy the manual so they might as well try to squeeze out as much margin as they can on it.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:50
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The Golf R did it right. You can get the manual transmission or the automatic transmission, and the rest of the car is essentially the same either way.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:55
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Hikaki posted:Manufacturers must be aware that manual buyers want the biggest engine and the least features, so there must be other reasons why they fail to deliver. I bet Chevy figured that few people would buy the manual so they might as well try to squeeze out as much margin as they can on it. The Chevy SS failed because GM didn't advertise it and it was like $45K out the door, that's it.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:30
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Charles posted:Get a Mazda with a stick you fool An MX-5? Ends up being a garage queen as my DD needs to fit a bike. Also got other cars that do the whole "Drive it like you stole it" better in more conditions. I'd get a BRZ before an MX-5 as well for reasons I dont think need stating  Mazda 3? What's that got that a higher performance Golf or Hyundai doesnt? Thats it. Nothing else I would consider from Mazda. Hikaki posted:Manufacturers must be aware that manual buyers want the biggest engine and the least features, so there must be other reasons why they fail to deliver. I bet Chevy figured that few people would buy the manual so they might as well try to squeeze out as much margin as they can on it. In the case of the Chev SS - and to be honest every single Holden that GM bought over to the USA was the absolutly loving terrible sales support and disinterest by dealers and corporate. And manuals across the board are being killed in part by the same curse too. Car makers just do not want to make them and dealers dont want to stock them. They are only really concerned with rows of lovely CUV's and SUV's. If you look at the remaining majority manual models, they still sell quite well WHEN there is the interest and support. Hell, the dealers sometimes scream at corporate for a manual as they know there's a market but they either get tiny allocations or a firm LOLNO.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:47
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:An MX-5? Ends up being a garage queen as my DD needs to fit a bike. I know this isn't your only gripe but you can easily add a hitch for any generation of Miata.
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Jul 29, 2020 06:24
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PT6A posted:The Golf R did it right. You can get the manual transmission or the automatic transmission, and the rest of the car is essentially the same either way. That, in a nutshell, is pretty much why I bought one. Hopefully that remains the same for the MK8. No weird package bullshit. It pisses me off that there only decent equipment combo on the WRX right now are the Series.<color> models (performance pack with LED headlights.) bull3964 fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 06:38
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bull3964 posted:That, in a nutshell, is pretty much why I bought one. How’s the reliability on that one? Most people I know seem to lease this car or sell it on after about 4 years.
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Jul 29, 2020 06:51
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Kraftwerk posted:How’s the reliability on that one? I've had it for a year, only put 5000 miles on it so far, and it has a 6 year 72k warranty. So, *SHRUG*. It's still basically a new car right now. For the most part though, the MK7(.5) seem to have most of their issues worked through at this point so i'm not too worried. I got 5 more years before I have to worry about it costing me anything to fix something.
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Jul 29, 2020 07:03
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Hikaki posted:I know this isn't your only gripe but you can easily add a hitch for any generation of Miata. Problem is that my bikes are not cheap and nor am I a Sunday only cafe racer. Much easier to stow a bike away from light fingers i a wagon
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Jul 29, 2020 07:23
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Problem is that my bikes are not cheap and nor am I a Sunday only cafe racer. Much easier to stow a bike away from light fingers i a wagon You keeping the bike in the car for long periods or something? I’ve dragged numerous carbon bikes all over on a 1Up rack and never had a problem.
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Jul 29, 2020 12:11
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:You keeping the bike in the car for long periods or something? I’ve dragged numerous carbon bikes all over on a 1Up rack and never had a problem. My commute is 91kms one way so I drive about 16kms to a station, train and then ride in the morning, then ride back to the car in the afternoon. Leave the bike in the car overnight. Often take the bike somewhere else on Sundays. It's just plain easier to leave the bike in the car and a bike rack becomes a right PITA esp getting back after a cold wet night My main bike is 4 and a bit years old and has 42,278.4 kms on it and it goes where I go basically. The other bike is older but only 12000kms. I also just topped 85,000kms on Strava last night, go me 
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Jul 29, 2020 13:17
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Yeah I love being able to put my bike in my car and not having to worry about someone stealing it off the rack. My Wrangler has a Yakima spare tire rack with a cable lock which is nice, but in the car it's way more secure. Bike theft is a loving epidemic around here.
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Jul 29, 2020 15:23
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If you left a bike in a car overnight and a thief was especially motivated, is there any way for them to steal it easily? With a laptop, backpack etc. it can fit through the windows, but you can't unlock doors just by smashing a window right? Even if it wasn't possible I wouldn't leave anything overnight since I fear smashed windows either way.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:05
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Inner Light posted:If you left a bike in a car overnight and a thief was especially motivated, is there any way for them to steal it easily? With a laptop, backpack etc. it can fit through the windows, but you can't unlock doors just by smashing a window right? Smash window, pull inside door handle, open door.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:05
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Inner Light posted:If you left a bike in a car overnight and a thief was especially motivated, is there any way for them to steal it easily? With a laptop, backpack etc. it can fit through the windows, but you can't unlock doors just by smashing a window right? If someone wants to steal pretty much any of your possessions, and they're motivated enough, they're gonna find a way to do it.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:08
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Guinness posted:I'm still traumatized from my 1994 Taurus, but some of the recent Ford rental cars I've had I actually kind of... liked? Liked is a bit of a strong word, but I didn't hate them. I don't think their poo poo stinks as bad as FCA or GM, at least. The driver assist stuff has been great and I won't buy another car without it. My only problems with my Fusion is that it's a little small for me. I'm big so the driver's seat legroom can be a challenge but also the hybrid battery takes a large chunk of the trunk which makes it difficult to fit more than a single suitcase or some groceries. Which is why... Mr Newsman posted:Anyone put a reservation in for a Bronco? I had thought about it but can't get anyone else convinced until a test drive happens. ...I did this. Supposedly the wait list is into 2022 now so another year or year and a half and my Fusion will be paid and I'll be ready for something larger. Bronco checks almost all my boxes for what I want in a new car. The deposit is only $100 and fully refundable. So I put my name on the list. I can always cancel (at least until I'm actually allowed to order).
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Jul 29, 2020 16:20
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Inner Light posted:If you left a bike in a car overnight and a thief was especially motivated, is there any way for them to steal it easily? With a laptop, backpack etc. it can fit through the windows, but you can't unlock doors just by smashing a window right? If you're gonna smash the window in not much is secure. Kind've like the IT aphorism for software security, physical access is root access.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:29
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If someone wants to steal pretty much any of your possessions, and they're motivated enough, they're gonna find a way to do it. Out of sight out of mind tho. My bike in my car with tinted windows is difficult to see and is much less tempting that a bike hanging on a rack in plain view.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:46
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Out of sight out of mind tho. My bike in my car with tinted windows is difficult to see and is much less tempting that a bike hanging on a rack in plain view. Oh absolutely, you can reduce the risk of theft, especially opportunistic theft. But if someone specifically targets your poo poo, it's gonna go.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:52
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Godzilla07 posted:Even if the problem of the immature and limited EV market were solved, I live in a condo, not a single-family home with a garage, and my state does not offer incentives to get me into an EV. As far as I know, EV ownership implies a single-family home with a garage, and no one has a real solution to the charging problem besides a massive public charging network. The former probably isn't the future of housing in America, and the latter would require a similarly massive upgrade to our electrical grid, which is more rickety than a 2002 Mazda Protege that has lived in Ohio its entire life. This is a shame as an EV is a perfect solution for 90% of my driving. A coworker of mine has a Tesla. They live in a single family home but never charge it there (or at work). They only use the changing stations around town. Now they do this because they got one of those free charging deals which I don't think are available anymore but you can make it work even if you can't plug in at home.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:03
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At least in some cities, there are construction of parking mandates for new build housing, etc that include EV space mandates.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:17
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Eh, "make it work" is still very much a circumstances thing. Do you have chargers close by? How busy are they? Are they functional or left broken for months on end? Are they in a location that makes it worthwhile wasting 1 hr plus on the regular (which, right now, is NO PLACE.) Also, that's not a scalable solution. It can sorta maybe work for one person if the circumstances are right, but if even 1/3rd of those people in the same apartment building decided to do that, they would quickly overrun the local public charging infrastructure. In a mass adoption situation, people need to have a setup where they can plug in their car for multiple hours at least half the days of the week and that basically means either chargers at home or at work and we are nowhere near that. When I was looking at the Model 3 last year, I found myself running the numbers. I do live in a house and could charge at home, but I need to upgrade the power in my whole house in order to support charging an EV at anything approaching reasonable speeds. I had a 17 mile commute (one way) to work and that's a pretty reasonable commute. The means I would have to add about 35 miles of range a day to my car to break even. 120v/12a (about the limit of what I could expect to do with my current house's electricity) could JUUUUUUUUUUST about do that if I left it plugged in for 10 hours. There are public chargers nearby. There are superchargers about 15 minutes away and just a little over a mile away there's a 12kw charger, but the idea of going to one of those locations on the semi regular and spending over an hour there to regain the range deficit didn't really appeal. Also, looking at the reviews on plugshare, it seems as though the one a mile from my house has been busted since late Feb and no one has repaired it yet. Of course, since then (even before the pandemic) I went to 100% WFH so I went from driving 35 miles a day to about 70 miles a week. So, I could have made it work on even 12a/120v now, but that time has passed. I do intend to upgrade the eletrical in my house at some point in the next year and be sure I have a 220 line terminated in the garage for the future because I know EV is coming at some point. But we need some sort of public works project to make reasonably quick chargers much more widely available before we can go from pluggable hybrid to strict EV across the board. We are also going to need a culture shift as well and based on what I've seen lately that ain't going to happen. If you can't convince people to wear masks to keep people from dying, you aren't going to convince them that "No, you are at 95% charge, you don't get to monopolize this public station for 3 hours while you shop at the mall" and making every spot a charging spot isn't feasible at all. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 17:26
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I'm pretty sure that the Venn diagram depicting potential EV owners and COVID truthers looks like a pair of eyeglasses.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:48
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I'm pretty sure that the Venn diagram depicting potential EV owners and COVID truthers looks like a pair of eyeglasses. That's not really what we're talking about here, we're talking about mass adoption. The 15-20 year timeframe where the vast majority of cars are expected to be EV. Those venn diagrams have to converge at some point. I would argue the Mach E is already causing some overlap.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:51
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bull3964 posted:The 15-20 year timeframe where the vast majority of cars are expected to be EV. I want whatever this guy's having.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:52
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bull3964 posted:That's not really what we're talking about here, we're talking about mass adoption. The 15-20 year timeframe where the vast majority of cars are expected to be EV. Those venn diagrams have to converge at some point. The projections I actually believe show maybe 50% of UIO as EV in like 2050. Cars last a long time now and new cars are getting more expensive. There will be a lot of ICE cars on the road for the rest of our lives. The COVID truthers will still be able to roll coal and open carry with their SAPI plates and demand to speak to your manager.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:53
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bull3964 posted:That's not really what we're talking about here, we're talking about mass adoption. The 15-20 year timeframe where the vast majority of cars are expected to be EV. Those venn diagrams have to converge at some point. The most interesting question to me there is if the US average fleet age continues to increase. I think that modern cars are durable enough, we're almost definitely heading for the average car on the road being more than 15 years old.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:54
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The projections I actually believe show maybe 50% of UIO as EV in like 2050. Cars last a long time now and new cars are getting more expensive. There will be a lot of ICE cars on the road for the rest of our lives. The COVID truthers will still be able to roll coal and open carry with their SAPI plates and demand to speak to your manager. Even 50% by 2050 is unsustainable with the way our public infrastructure is setup.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:56
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Twerk from Home posted:The most interesting question to me there is if the US average fleet age continues to increase. I think that modern cars are durable enough, we're almost definitely heading for the average car on the road being more than 15 years old. Just saw something on Jalopnik that 25% of the US fleet is over 16 years old - now some of that stuff is poo poo like my M5 that doesn't get driven all time time, but still. bull3964 posted:Even 50% by 2050 is unsustainable with the way our public infrastructure is setup. a lot can change in 30 years. obviously it requires funding, political will, etc, but it's definitely possible for the infrastructure to be built. of course infrastructure that is like 100% not designed for EVs won't support EVs, that's incredibly obvious.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:59
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There's "possible" and there's possible. 30 years isn't enough time to undo the cultural damage in this country to even get to the point where we would even start planning a public infrastructure works project on this scale. Here's a fun thing to consider. Our fleets start to age because people don't have the money to buy new. At the same time, more progressive polices in foreign countries push the tech forward to a point where companies are going to lower or cease their investment in ICE vehicles. (For example, VW has said they are only designing EVs from 2026 on). You have a tanked US market that makes investment unpalatable and an infrastructure gulf that make global products incompatible with the country. You think the car selection is dire now, just wait until the choice is the 14th gen F150 on the 30th year of its production run or some cheaply produced shell with an ICE powerplant designed for the 3rd world that doesn't have reliable electricity.
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Jul 29, 2020 18:12
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Zero One posted:Which is why... Nice! What trim/packages are you looking at?
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Jul 29, 2020 18:33
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I'm pretty sure that the Venn diagram depicting potential EV owners and COVID truthers looks like a pair of eyeglasses. What about ol' Musky? Or is he the bridge?
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Jul 29, 2020 18:37
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mobby_6kl posted:What about ol' Musky? Or is he the bridge? precisely
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Jul 29, 2020 18:50
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TheMadMilkman posted:Nice! What trim/packages are you looking at? Probably 4dr Outer Banks with the Lux package (for the Adaptive Cruise). Wildtrak was appealing too but it's more than I probably need. For the rest of the options and add-ons I'll need to wait for the customizer and how much they add to the price.
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Jul 29, 2020 18:59
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EV adoption will likely see explosive growth over the next decade until it runs into a hard plateau for the reasons bull3964 has articulated; there's a demographic for which EVs work that's larger than the current market offerings are serving, but what Toyota is doing with their focus on hybrid powertrain development over pure EV is the smarter long term path right now. Vehicles have been good enough for at least a decade now that the only reasons to drive a new car are the consumerist drive to own nice new poo poo and safety tech, most of those Corollas and CR-Vs driving around today will still be on the road in 20 years.
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Jul 29, 2020 19:34
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mobby_6kl posted:What about ol' Musky? Or is he the bridge?
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Jul 29, 2020 23:23
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https://twitter.com/freep/status/1288570767156957188?s=21 It has a "crab mode", which I can only assume summons little crabs to dispose of the batteries in the ocean.
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Jul 29, 2020 23:26
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