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A lot of the stuff on the dauntlessdialogue page seems true, does anyone have any data on arrests pre-2017? ie is the current rate of arrests statistically unusual?
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Jul 30, 2020 00:20
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Did Trump actually say that? I'm certainly not typing that phrase into google so wondering if anyone knew.
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Jul 30, 2020 00:40
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Bucky Fullminster posted:A lot of the stuff on the dauntlessdialogue page seems true, does anyone have any data on arrests pre-2017? ie is the current rate of arrests statistically unusual? I went through and it seems correct but also, outside of the initial statements of EO's and stuff, literally none of the child exploitation busts listed took place under Trumps presidency or seems to be anything other than regular low level consumers and some producers being caught by FBI and local law enforcement. Certainly nothing approaching anything with any celebrity or anything else I assumed would be in there from the Twitter thread I found it in. Illuminti posted:Did Trump actually say that? I'm certainly not typing that phrase into google so wondering if anyone knew. I've not heard that one but I've certainly seen the famous clip of him with Marla Maples discussing baby Tiffany's future body. Honestly, the stories from his ownership of the Teen Pageant is enough for me to extrapolate from. The context for me here was just how these people handwave away everything Trump does and says so they can position him as a moral crusader for children in their minds.
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Jul 30, 2020 00:59
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Oh man, one of the comments on that page of arrests gets so close:quote:Very good Article, thank you! And another one lays the strategy bare: quote:“It is becoming very clear that the reason the Democrats are after Trump is because they are being used by the “elite” scum to try to remove him in a desperate attempt to save their skins.
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Jul 30, 2020 02:01
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Maybe when people google "Trump hosed up" their search bar will also show results for "
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Jul 30, 2020 02:02
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Illuminti posted:Did Trump actually say that? I'm certainly not typing that phrase into google so wondering if anyone knew. Allegedly he did https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tamerragriffin/trump-asked-if-its-wrong-to-be-attracted-to-his-daughter#.muLN7d3M2 quote:Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen wrote that President-elect Donald Trump once asked, “Is it wrong to be more sexually attracted to your own daughter than your wife?” — but the quote was quietly removed before the syndicated column was published Tuesday.
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Jul 30, 2020 02:13
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"sir, you defend the doctor who recommended hydroclowhatevers-" "mhm mhm very smart. great lady. great american. we're good friends. very smart. very good." "she says that illnesses are caused by 'sex with witches'-" "HaHA! NOW you've fallen into my trap! here you say 'sex with witches' is bad correct!? CORRECT??!" "y-yes?" "SO! PRAY TELL: why is it ok for bill to have sex with hillary??" *entire cabinet* "OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!" "drat son!!" "burn. her. UP!" *trump smug face and crossed arms as press fall out of chairs*
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Jul 30, 2020 02:16
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Wait, Hillary cut an ad of the whole face wearing thing?
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Jul 30, 2020 02:17
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Spotted earlier today in Everett, Washington: https://twitter.com/The_Tim/status/1288574525907451905
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Jul 30, 2020 02:28
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Wait, Joe Biden has an island with a secret submarine base and a headquarters worth a half a billion dollars? I wouldn’t have guessed Biden was actually “a six year old’s idea of a superhero.”
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Jul 30, 2020 05:05
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Is there a good place that gives an outline on why a lot of the claims of pizzagate/qanon are bullshit? Other than the obvious argument of hahaha bullshit conspiracy theories that connect EVERYTHING are always bullshit why did you fall for that. The whole how and why the argument came to be is just not compelling for some, especially since it is a "serious" topic.
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Jul 30, 2020 06:42
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Momonari kun posted:Is there a good place that gives an outline on why a lot of the claims of pizzagate/qanon are bullshit? Other than the obvious argument of hahaha bullshit conspiracy theories that connect EVERYTHING are always bullshit why did you fall for that. The whole how and why the argument came to be is just not compelling for some, especially since it is a "serious" topic. There’s literally like no evidence supporting any of it. That’s like asking someone to prove God doesn’t exist and then saying checkmate atheist.
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Jul 30, 2020 07:11
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Momonari kun posted:Is there a good place that gives an outline on why a lot of the claims of pizzagate/qanon are bullshit? Other than the obvious argument of hahaha bullshit conspiracy theories that connect EVERYTHING are always bullshit why did you fall for that. The whole how and why the argument came to be is just not compelling for some, especially since it is a "serious" topic. The problem is that if you actually describe the structure of either conspiracy theory in simple, unbiased language, and that doesn't provide an sufficiently compelling outline by itself, then there's something else going on there. The easiest way to break down either one still makes it sound like the TimeCube guy wrote it. Pizzagate in particular only makes any sense at all to anyone if they went into the conversation previously convinced that Hillary Clinton was one of David Icke's lizard people.
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Jul 30, 2020 07:17
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Momonari kun posted:Is there a good place that gives an outline on why a lot of the claims of pizzagate/qanon are bullshit? Other than the obvious argument of hahaha bullshit conspiracy theories that connect EVERYTHING are always bullshit why did you fall for that. The whole how and why the argument came to be is just not compelling for some, especially since it is a "serious" topic. Q stuff isn't a single conspiracy theory like "the US never went to the moon" or "the CIA killed JFK," where you can pick apart arguments and try to debunk specific claims. It's more like a huge salad bar of vaguely pro-Trump fringe beliefs that lets True Q Believers pick whatever they want to be true. There's no way to pull apart a single core concept and debunk claims, because there's no core to it beyond "Trump has a secret plan to own the libs" and a vaguely messianic anonymous message board poster that can be interpreted into whatever people want to hear.
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Jul 30, 2020 07:23
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I think the general outline is that there's a secret society of most of the top politicians(only left-wing of course) and celebrities called the Deep State that kidnap children and harvest adrenochrome from them for anti-aging/immortality/satanic rituals, and they use codewords like pizza/walnut/sauce to refer to it. Trump is secretly fighting the Deep State and is going to(or already has) arrest and execute them all, and then release all the evidence to the general public. As far as I know the only evidence for this are emails that mention stuff like "pizza" that are supposedly code for children, and not y'know just food. RatHat fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 07:41
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Wanderer posted:Pizzagate in particular only makes any sense at all to anyone if they went into the conversation previously convinced that Hillary Clinton was one of David Icke's lizard people. The growth of the movement over the last few months, and the inclusion of the spiritual (edit - 'yoga mum') set, suggests that's not entirely true anymore Bucky Fullminster fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 08:02
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Really your best bet is to point out that a fairly common and central theme is that they think JFK Jr. faked his death so he could come back and be a key agent in the shadow war against the cabal. If that doesn't scare them off then I doubt much else will. The problem with QAnon is that it's a pretty variable conspiracy so a lot of people who are just a little dumb or more on the alternative medicine/mom blog side of things can just hear that some rich people (conveniently the ones that they probably don't like) are passing kids around and nod their heads. Like I said, Satanic Panic 2.0. If you make them face a little more of the conspiracy at once it could shock them out of it. Other than that, QAnon is more of a state of mind about the dark cabal of Satanists/Globalists/Bankers/Reptilians existing and Trump and the government secretly resisting them. The "facts" don't exactly matter. You can't exactly prove that Obama wasn't secretly imprisoned and executed at Gitmo and then replaced with a body double.
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Jul 30, 2020 08:15
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The screenshot of the front page of 8kun seems like a pretty good way to discredit the idea that they are righteous warriors fighting a holy war against satanic sex traffickers
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Jul 30, 2020 08:35
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Bucky Fullminster posted:And another one lays the strategy bare: Good ol' Christianity, sure to stamp out pedophilia any day now. Between that and right wing politics morality must be just around the corner by now.
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Jul 30, 2020 08:49
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Found what appears to be a good chunk of the original FBIanon posts, which is clearly the inspiration for Q, if not Q themselves trying the first iteration of the character: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1079382699142496256.html If anyone has a link to the original archived thread I'd love to see it. edit - Highlights: "Repeat something often enough and it becomes the truth. Repeat after me: Hillary is evil and will destroy the planet." "Russia has no desire to go to war with us, so if they are meddling in our elections (which I believe they are) then it is because they do not want HRC to provoke a conflict which she is likely to do. She is a vicious idiot" "The problem is with the Clinton Foundation as I mentioned, which you should just imagine as a massive spider web of connections and money laundering implicating hundreds of high-level people." "My personal goal is to make sure HRC never gets elected." "As an aside, when you are reading Podesta's e-mails, remember that the Clintons deal in weapons, drugs, and people. Some terminology in use is far more nefarious than many of you suspect." "If there is anything to gain from this, it is FOCUS ON THE CLINTON FOUNDATION. If you keep pressing the foundation and do not let the questions or demands die, then the truth will out. Follow the Foundation." > CF/Hillary --> Qatar --> Lagardere --> Bataclan > Yes or no? "Correct. There is a missing link, but the thread is correct." > What should we follow specifically? "Why do HRC and the CF have ties to certain Indian businessmen, who, in many instances, have been routinely accused of pedophilia?" "HRC loves power and death." >Did Hillary have sex with kidnapped girls? "Yes." > Is there any sign or reference of Moloch/Minerva in the CF? Any occult or weird symbolism? "Plenty, if you know what to look for." > What are Trump's true motivations? "He wants to Make America Great Again. He despises the powerful who have enabled themselves by throwing smaller people under the bus." > How many people has the CF had killed in this election? "At least 14." >We have everything. Trump has many things. Why doesn’t Flynn (who I know knows enough to indict her) saying anything? "The same reason I cannot. If the truth came out, you all may believe. But who else would? It is too dark for anyone to stomach." "I could go into my office, pull all the docs, come home to my pc and upload tons of dirt on HRC right here. But do you know what will happen? Google will remove it, and then this website will be shut down." Bucky Fullminster fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 09:21
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"None of this is being published because it's too dark to believe" is such a funny statement especially in light of the metoo movement. You have all these people on the left who are pushing for people to believe victims, and you have all these people on the right who are desperately trying to defend rapists and pedophiles. So who do all the qanon people rally around? The billionaire sex pest who definitely hosed kids at some point
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Jul 30, 2020 14:47
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288843391065882629
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Jul 30, 2020 15:39
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I mean if trump wasn’t the savior they’d totally be freaking out if anyone mentioned pizza in the context of L
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Jul 30, 2020 15:45
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pseudanonymous posted:There’s literally like no evidence supporting any of it. That’s like asking someone to prove God doesn’t exist and then saying checkmate atheist. So yeah, it's just religion, then.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:13
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Momonari kun posted:Is there a good place that gives an outline on why a lot of the claims of pizzagate/qanon are bullshit? Other than the obvious argument of hahaha bullshit conspiracy theories that connect EVERYTHING are always bullshit why did you fall for that. The whole how and why the argument came to be is just not compelling for some, especially since it is a "serious" topic. Do you need a specific website that congregates all the evidence that Barack Obama isn't a lizard alien or currently in Guantanamo?
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Jul 30, 2020 20:57
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bird with big dick posted:Do you need a specific website that congregates all the evidence that Barack Obama isn't a lizard alien or currently in Guantanamo? Didn't care enough or read any social media poo poo to realize how "deep" it all went, but if it's that far out there, no hope I guess. Litmus test for who not to engage with.
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Jul 30, 2020 21:14
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Momonari kun posted:Is there a good place that gives an outline on why a lot of the claims of pizzagate/qanon are bullshit? Other than the obvious argument of hahaha bullshit conspiracy theories that connect EVERYTHING are always bullshit why did you fall for that. The whole how and why the argument came to be is just not compelling for some, especially since it is a "serious" topic. Regarding pizzagate, the conspiracy theory revolves around Comet Pizza a Washington DC restaurant that is supposedly holding and abusing children in its basement. Only one problem, as the guy who went there with an AR-15 and a .38 pistol to bust into the basement and free the kids found out, there is no basement. https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...24e0_story.html quote:After a panicky evacuation by workers and customers, including children, Welch fired the rifle multiple times at a locked closet door, striking computer equipment inside, court documents said. He also pointed the rifle toward an unwitting employee retrieving pizza dough from a nearby business who entered the back of the restaurant, then immediately turned and ran for his life, according to the government’s evidence signed off by Welch. Subsequently, Alex Jones retracted all his claims about pizzagate on air and apologized for lying about the owner of Comet Pizza quote:Also Friday, conservative radio host and Infowars website operator Alex Jones apologized for promoting the Pizzagate conspiracy. Jones posted a six-minute video on his website in which he read a prepared statement stating that neither the restaurant nor its owner, James Alefantis, had anything to do with human trafficking. The statement came after Alefantis’s attorneys had requested a retraction. So ya know, the grifters promoting it to dumb rubes to get them to tune in so they can sell them brain pills and weight loss supplements don't believe it themselves, and the poor sap who bought into it is in prison now thanks to them, idk what kind of evidence you're looking for but that seems pretty slam dunk to me. I don't have evidence that the USA isn't criscrossed with secret underground tunnels holding mole children bred for their adrenal glands to be ready for consumption by Hillary Clinton though so obviously that part must be true. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 21:38
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Like the general theme that there is an elite international cabal of ritualistic child molesters is right, that's Epstein's thing, the bit that's wrong is specifically that their headquarters is in the basement of a pizza shop. Much like UFOs were real, as in the US military was flying weird experimental aircraft at night over US cities based out of the groom lake base at area 51, but they weren't aliens.
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Jul 30, 2020 21:44
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VitalSigns posted:I don't have evidence that the USA isn't criscrossed with secret underground tunnels holding mole children bred for their adrenal glands to be ready for consumption by Hillary Clinton though so obviously that part must be true. I have a co-worker who talked about this on Tuesday! She also confidently asserted that THEY were blowing up the underground children and cities and that's what causes earthquakes. Of her own admission she does nothing but watch YouTube all day once she gets home. She says she used to be a lot crazier in the 80s.
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Jul 30, 2020 21:48
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She was probably doing the satanic panic in the 80's and now it's retro.
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Jul 30, 2020 21:54
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Mad Hamish posted:I have a co-worker who talked about this on Tuesday! She also confidently asserted that THEY were blowing up the underground children and cities and that's what causes earthquakes. Of her own admission she does nothing but watch YouTube all day once she gets home. I just told my wife about this. Her response: Her: "who's blowing up the underground cities?" Me: "THEY. The deep state. Probably the DNC and Hillary." Her: "Wait, Hillary wants to kill the mole people?" Me: "I'm not sure Hillary knows about them, she's the recipient, the tunnels are probably built for her benefit with Clinton Foundation money, but she has probable deniability." Her: "wouldn't she and the DNC want to protect the mole people of she needed to eat them later?" Me: "maybe we shouldn't dig too deeply." (Insert Moria joke) I love her.
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Jul 30, 2020 22:09
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Glory to Italia!
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Has any reporting provided well-founded statistics about the extent and growth of the QAnon movement? Like based on national polling or study of social media data, etc? Secondary to that I'm wondering about what power QAnon has / could plausibly have as a semi-unified political force. My impression is it's been shown (anecdotally) to be able to infect people outside the traditional Trump base, so it wouldn't necessarily be correct say that that is its full potential. I'm sure this is a focus of inquiry, has there been good reporting about it?
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Jul 31, 2020 00:22
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How much of its ability to appeal to people is that it isn't a coherent political force though? Like it's entirely possible the people who are into it but aren't pro trump are into it again because of the satanic panic poo poo. Like people adopting the language doesn't mean adopting the politics any more than they already had them. A lot of conspiracies are just expressions of a pre existing mindset which is sort of runoff from right-christian thought. Angels and demons and judgement day and divine plans and all that horseshit. Or new age rebranding of that with chi and energy and nature and meditation and whatever. All just mysticism appealing to people who lack control over their own lives for various reasons and so they buy whatever ancient chinese secret crystal bigfoot detoxification orgone ion radio wave blocking crap a charlatan in a fancy suit on TV or sleek website can sell to them on the premise that it will give them secret power to improve their lives and feel better about themselves.
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Jul 31, 2020 00:27
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Something that is unique about QAnon to me is that it involves worship of a non-fringe public figure. If a person's religion tells them that some famous politician is their messiah they are likely to vote for that politician at each convenient opportunity, I think.
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Jul 31, 2020 00:37
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That's not entirely new, though, that's already how the christian right interface with the republican party. I would be surprised if it doesn't transfer to the next person willing to bang the drum for their culture war. Because that's what it is, at the heart of it, our enemies represent the depths of moral depravity, our allies are radiant saints sent down from heaven itself to cast out the demons. It's people hopped up on the jesus juice hardcore, or any of the other manifestations of the same idea of a great mystical moral conflict being behind everything in the world. And that's why it doesn't really matter that trump is transparently a sleazeball, he's doing it for a higher purpose which the people who subscribe to this poo poo are heavily invested in. It's the foundation of their worldview and nothing's gonna break them of that save death. No amount of failed prophecies or facts will work because it's all about their emotional need to believe they understand the world correctly as a stage for a big moral fairytale conflict and their need to believe that at the moment they are on the right side, the side that appeals to their basest instincts honed over years, decades of osmosis from conservative and religious propaganda from their environment. Ultimately I think our society has raised whole generations of actual loving children who have been living in a complete fantasyland and this is them refusing to leave it. To an extent it's why the religious right political project has been so successful, it channels people's disillusion with the society created by the people they keep voting for into more support for that project. Capitalism drives everything the right hates in the culture war, and their politicians make bank pushing more capitalism with one hand and stoking the moral crusade with the other. The wrongs are deflected onto the degeneracy of the capitalist entities the right empowers and nobody makes the connection back to the people with the slick hair on TV going on about whatever moral panic we're on this week. The system of government, so removed from the people who live in the country, serves as the screen to hide the actions of the right, except when they want to make a show of doing some performative thing. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jul 31, 2020 |
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Jul 31, 2020 00:41
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johnny dappertweed posted:Something that is unique about QAnon to me is that it involves worship of a non-fringe public figure. If a person's religion tells them that some famous politician is their messiah they are likely to vote for that politician at each convenient opportunity, I think. Wait till someone announces they are Q Anon and tries to run for president.
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Jul 31, 2020 00:41
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OwlFancier posted:Ultimately I think our society has raised whole generations of actual loving children who have been living in a complete fantasyland and this is them refusing to leave it. So this is what I want to know true/false, actually how many people have this defect in their worldview that (a) makes them susceptible to QAnon and (b) makes them susceptible to other phenomena similar to QAnon. How big a slice of the population is this.
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Jul 31, 2020 01:02
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I mean it's gonna vary by country but the US has had a quite consistent program to capture christian religious practice and explicitly turn it into that, if it wasn't already that before. So probably most of the republican voter base. In other countries I'd look for weirdo nationalists, again hardcore christians, conservatives generally adopt that line of thinking because conservatism at best is basically just "I don't want to have to do any sort of remotely difficult moral thought" and basically just functions as a way for people to legitimize whatever idea pops into their head first. And right wing politicians across the west at least have taken on the lessons of the US right and do exactly the same thing, promote the things their base hates with one hand, obscured by the system of government, and decry it with the other through their press.
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Jul 31, 2020 01:08
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At the same time, Trump’s poll numbers tell us that those people make up about 30% of registered voters. It’s a lot, but if the rest of us weren’t so beaten down and desperate and weakened by the fight to stay alive, they could be decisively silenced by sufficiently good organizing.
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Jul 31, 2020 02:08
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I would like that to be true but where does your confidence come from? Are there analogues in recent or not recent history for dissolution of a religion without like cultural genocide/totalitarianism?
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Jul 31, 2020 02:20
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