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Drakyn posted:'you must defeat the guy who wanted to stop the setting being based on acres and acres of squirming bags of racist worms because he was a very bad person and had good motives but went about them the wrong way, how tragic, perhaps in another life you could've been friends, now go do his job but properly since he was too flawed to accomplish it and you aren't.' The classic ham-handed writing solution(applied over and over and over and over and over in media) to this problem is to have the "overzealous villain with a good cause" be defeated and personally suffer while his cause somehow is inherited by the good guys, who "do it right". I hope we don't see that.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:27
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I trust Rich to handle things correctly in this case. He has been making Redcloak more and more sympathetic ever since the battle of Azure City (to the point where I honestly think he's about as good of a person as our protagonists), so I don't think he's just going to get thrown in the dumpster. My guess is that next we'll see the gods take Redcloak's demands that goblins not get poo poo on anymore, and treat them roughly the same way they treated the demands of the last goblin hero who tried negotiating with them. They are so divinely petty, after all...
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Jul 29, 2020 16:33
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My takeaway from the "dwarves don't live hard lives" thing isn't that Redcloak will realize there is bigotry on both sides but that he will realize that while Durkon undoubtedly had an easier time of it than Redcloak and the goblins he has had his own hardships that will allow him to honestly empathize and understand Redcloaks position. Because right now he's acting like Durkon isnt capable of that and so isn't capable of arguing in good faith.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:22
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honestly, I appreciate Redcloak's little tangents, they look to me like he's getting more comfortable with letting his guard down and letting himself have actual casual conversation with someone could be misreading this tho
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Jul 29, 2020 20:42
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I think he's just not used to actually seriously discussing his objectives with anyone. Everyone he's had around him until now has been either an underling that doesn't want to question him or an ally of convenience that doesn't care about his goals. Durkon might well be the first person he's spoken to in decades that is actually interested in talking over the specifics of what he really wants.
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Jul 29, 2020 20:45
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ikanreed posted:The classic ham-handed writing solution(applied over and over and over and over and over in media) to this problem is to have the "overzealous villain with a good cause" be defeated and personally suffer while his cause somehow is inherited by the good guys, who "do it right". Not by the "good guys", but we've already seen some of this with Jirax taking over the cause of Gobbotopia. Sort of a Moses-doesn't-go-to-the-promised-land ending, where Redcloak is too damaged by war and suffering to be able to complete the peace and love ending of his quest. But things seem to be going pretty well for Redcloak right now, so I'm hoping he makes it! I think Redcloak's digressions are maybe just a side effect of being around Xykon, who does that poo poo constantly?
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Jul 29, 2020 20:50
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Lt. Danger posted:this is probably the first time Redcloak's ever really been able to talk about The Plan, especially with someone who doesn't already agree with it Or Xykon.
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Jul 30, 2020 01:18
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Previous dialogue has implied jirix is aware of the plan at least. That's the closest thing he's had to a peer. Una I guess is a possibility?
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Jul 30, 2020 01:45
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Drakyn posted:I think this is almost guaranteed to happen and be very ugly no matter what the story does. The setting it uses is based on acres and acres of squirming bags of racist worms, and its writer has decided one of its chief (if sympathetic!) antagonists is going to be 'the guy who realizes the setting is based on acres and acres of squirming bags of racist worms and wants to stop that.' Unless the rest of the story is the protagonists (whose role in the world is 'the people who benefit greatly from the setting being based on acres and acres of squirming bags of racist worms') eventually admitting he's correct and trying to help him, it's going to be some flavour of 'you must defeat the guy who wanted to stop the setting being based on acres and acres of squirming bags of racist worms because he was a very bad person and had good motives but went about them the wrong way, how tragic, perhaps in another life you could've been friends, now go do his job but properly since he was too flawed to accomplish it and you aren't.' Consider that Redcloak had at least one chance to make a positive difference in a way that didn't involve a huge war on both sides, and that he also was massively prejudiced for most of his life against everyone except Goblins, such as hobgoblins. His flaw isn't being overzealous, it's being spiteful and stuck in the past. Right-Eye said as much in start of darkness. Time will tell how deeply his character growth has reached, but I suspect his flaws will be his undoing. if he continues to be willing to push on with the plan he's saying his personal grievances outweigh that of everyone else, including other goblins. Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 05:01
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How broad are the Dark One's aims anyways? Una cast doubt on the whole pan-goblin identity meaningfully including bugbears, and surely goblins aren't the only sentient trash mobs out there. Where is the justice for demon cockroaches and land jellyfish.
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Jul 30, 2020 07:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:Where is the justice for flumphs.
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Jul 30, 2020 08:20
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Redcloak's comment about orcs is factually incorrect as we've seen orcs ostracized for being orcs in one of the prequel books. While half-orcs do appear to be largely freely admitted into "civilised" areas and towns, orcs still face "bag of xp"-based prejudice in the OotS world. Plus the meta involvement of possible "house-rules" brings a lot of this into question. And it's not like people don't also want to gently caress goblins, just head to any booru-style image board and search "goblin".
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Jul 30, 2020 14:41
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LashLightning posted:just head to any booru-style image board and search "goblin". No, thank you.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:47
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Those pictures set an unattainable and unhealthy standard for young goblins everywhere, especially girls, and they're almost exclusively drawn by humans fetishizing a different race anyway.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:55
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also maybe people want to gently caress goblins in our world, the horniest of all worlds, but canonically in D&D world there's no evidence that humans want to gently caress anything other than other humans, elves and orcs. dragons, fiends, and angels, though? those deviants will apparently bone anything.
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Jul 30, 2020 15:21
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Let's be hoenest, once your magic enough to shapeshift it's time to experiment.
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Jul 30, 2020 15:49
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Caidin posted:Let's be hoenest, once your magic enough to shapeshift it's time to experiment. 
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Jul 30, 2020 15:54
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LashLightning posted:Redcloak's comment about orcs is factually incorrect as we've seen orcs ostracized for being orcs in one of the prequel books. While half-orcs do appear to be largely freely admitted into "civilised" areas and towns, orcs still face "bag of xp"-based prejudice in the OotS world. If all humans were like Roy and durkon redcloak wouldn't have anything to complain about. Most are like Roy's first party
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Jul 30, 2020 15:59
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There is also the ever hanging meteor storm of damocles called Xykon. Though RedCloak doesnt seem as much in despair as he was at the end of Start of Darkness
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Jul 30, 2020 19:04
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The success of Gobbotopia is a good fallback position in case The Plan fails, so he's a lot more confident. Plus he's got secret plots that Xykon doesn't know about now.
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Jul 30, 2020 19:43
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I'm extremely worried that Xykon is going to step out of the village and blast Durkon (and presumably his allies, when they intervene or once he's finished with the dwarf) anytime now...
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Jul 30, 2020 20:49
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paradoxGentleman posted:I'm extremely worried that Xykon is going to step out of the village and blast Durkon (and presumably his allies, when they intervene or once he's finished with the dwarf) anytime now...
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Jul 30, 2020 20:54
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If Xykon blasts Durkon then Durkon doesn't have to explain himself to Roy. No way are we missing out on that conversation.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:56
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FMguru posted:Nah. Speaking is a free action in 3.5e. Literally no game time has passed since the Redcloak changed the height of his seat. This isn't strictly true even in the context of the comic, as rounds did in fact pass by because V took too long talking.
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Jul 30, 2020 21:01
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FMguru posted:Nah. Speaking is a free action in 3.5e. Literally no game time has passed since the Redcloak changed the height of his seat. Rich has said that he doesn't even really use the rules as any sort of in-comic law of the universe anymore so that point is mute. Talking as a free action is fine when a ten minute turn takes up 6 seconds of game time but not when trying to put together a narrative.
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Jul 30, 2020 23:25
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Robviously posted:that point is mute. Talking as a free action Nice
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Jul 31, 2020 01:13
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https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/status/1289171543919144960
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Jul 31, 2020 15:15
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god drat it redcloak
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Aug 3, 2020 14:14
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Aug 3, 2020 14:19
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New Strip https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1209.html That sure doesn’t look like the action of someone arguing in good faith to me.
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Aug 3, 2020 14:23
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wow nice ad hominem redcloak
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Aug 3, 2020 14:25
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Venuz Patrol posted:wow nice ad hominem redcloak lmao
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Aug 3, 2020 14:26
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Didn't Thor say that all they needed was for Redcloak to cast a 9th-level spell? Implosion fits the bill.
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Aug 3, 2020 14:27
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REDCLOAK YOU DIPSHIT rear end in a top hat
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Aug 3, 2020 14:27
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I'm hoping Durkon pops back to normal thanks to a hopefully high fortitude save
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Aug 3, 2020 14:29
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No no no, you see. Redcloak is agreeing to the deal. He's sending Durkon directly to Thor, so Durkon can report on it. Right? Right?
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Aug 3, 2020 14:30
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ultrafilter posted:Didn't Thor say that all they needed was for Redcloak to cast a 9th-level spell? Implosion fits the bill. They needed a 9th level spell slot, but I'm pretty sure they needed it to be consumed as part of a ritual or something rather than killing Durkon.
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Aug 3, 2020 14:30
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Aug 3, 2020 14:31
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sirtommygunn posted:They needed a 9th level spell slot, but I'm pretty sure they needed it to be consumed as part of a ritual or something rather than killing Durkon. Here's the comic. It sounds like that, but odds are good that there's some way to make this work.
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Aug 3, 2020 14:35
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Aug 3, 2020 14:35
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