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numeracy
This poll is closed.
s*x n*mb*r 69 0.22%
w@@d n_mb_r 420 1.34%
Jeb! number 538 1.72%
Biden numbr 30330 96.72%
Total: 31357 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

Fame Douglas posted:

Except so far, Trump hasn't accepted the invitation. So it's literally Trump not wanting to debate Biden.

Also, Trump is terrible at any kind of debate.

Nobody gives a poo poo about debate nerd talking points. Trump objectively poo poo all over Clinton during the debates. Sure he was a rambling idiot, but everyone already knew that. The debates showed that Trump was a loud ignorant bully who was still somehow smart enough to dunk on Clinton's more transparent lies, which is the platonic ideal of a modern republican leader.

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Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

gradenko_2000 posted:

I feel like you've just had bad luck. Insofar as I've heard of some really bad "left-wing" youtubers like that guy linked earlier, and some that I've rejected of my own accord as being disagreeable, there are also a couple that I've genuinely learned some theory from, or at least have gotten book references that prompted me towards my own learning.

Its entirely possible I just hang out in lovely internet spaces and consequently get lovely links from people who only vaguely associate me with 'angry about the government'

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012


Nix Panicus posted:

Every 'breadtube' video I have ever been linked has been some anarchist idiot trying to pretend they aren't really an ancap, but wouldnt an ancap society make more sense when you think about it?

Have I just had bad luck or is that basically what breadtube consists of?

I refuse to do any actual research on this topic

Ancaps want to preserve the heirarchy of boss and employee of they in fact want to expand that relationship to every aspect of human interaction so they can sell and purchase slave kids.

Anarchists don't want this and they are pretty okay and would be a fine ideaology if only they could figure out what to do about the capitalist insurgency that will inevitably come after the means of production is seized.

Essentially anarchists are like protestors. They are an essential part of the revolution but you can't exactly build a new society based entirely off of protesting.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Nix Panicus posted:

Every 'breadtube' video I have ever been linked has been some anarchist idiot trying to pretend they aren't really an ancap, but wouldnt an ancap society make more sense when you think about it?

Have I just had bad luck or is that basically what breadtube consists of?

I refuse to do any actual research on this topic
here's some extremely easy filters

dont pay attention to anyone who:
1) asks you to vote for biden
2) pushes or goes along with russiagate bullshit
3) pushes cia talking points on state department Official Enemies

this filter will probably remove almost all political commentary in "leftist" social media

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Nix Panicus posted:

Its entirely possible I just hang out in lovely internet spaces and consequently get lovely links from people who only vaguely associate me with 'angry about the government'

At the risk of instigating leftist infighting I'm going to drop a link to one video each from a left-wing youtuber that I like in the hopes of spreading around some good content:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKWq_iwkYYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=outwSoEA4ks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwUIDNYwZRY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBc7qBS1Ujo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAokAC2pZWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRBsJYWR8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lvUByM-fZk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO6uD3c2qMo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsRyTWBj84E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlIoyoIVPww

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008

:gowron::m10:

gradenko_2000 posted:

These were my recommendations when I was picking out books I'd read from ebook website Scribd. Not a lot of the classical Marxist literature on the list below - I can throw out some recs on that too if you'd like, but I was specifically aiming to not really get into those in the spirit of promoting "more readable" contemporary work.

I wrote that back in March.

Other books I've read since then that I'd recommend:

"Creating Russophobia: From the Great Religious Schism to Anti-Putin Hysteria" by Guy Mettan - this is a good look into the long-term historical and political context behind Russiagate

"Listen Liberal" by Thomas Frank - this is a good single-source examination on what exactly happened to the Democratic party over the last 30-40 years such that we are where we are now.

"The Color of Law" by Richard Rothstein - this is a historical account of how the American real-estate housing market has developed in a way that reinforces and reifies anti-black racism, such that the benefits of the New Deal were mostly cordoned-off from African-Americans.

"Blood Lies: The Evidence That Every Accusation Against Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union is False" by Grover Furr - I only include this because it is essentially a long-form refutation of the work of Timothy Snyder, a so-called historian that first gained fame with "Bloodlands", a work which equates the Holodomor and Stalin's regime as being just-as-bad as Hitler. This is of course a form of Holocaust denial by equivocation, and is relevant because Snyder has been a guest on Rachel Maddow multiple times and has since been referred to as an expert on "authoritarianism" in the context of #resisting Trump, but also while playing into Russiagate tropes, since his other prime example of authoritarianism is, of course, Vladimir Putin. If you find that interesting, then I also mentioned Domenico Losurdo's "Stalin: The History and Critique of a Black Legend" earlier in the thread, which goes further into this topic of Reductio ad Hitlerum, where the USSR is repeatedly and disingenuously equated with being as bad as Hitler for the purposes of ideologically programming people against communism.

Quoting this so I can find it easier when I get around to learning how to read

Zvahl
Oct 14, 2005

научный кот

comedyblissoption posted:

dont pay attention to anyone who:
1) asks you to vote for biden

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011

Nix Panicus posted:

Nobody gives a poo poo about debate nerd talking points. Trump objectively poo poo all over Clinton during the debates. Sure he was a rambling idiot, but everyone already knew that. The debates showed that Trump was a loud ignorant bully who was still somehow smart enough to dunk on Clinton's more transparent lies, which is the platonic ideal of a modern republican leader.

Trump is honestly probably better at debating than any living politician because seems to be the only one that gets that the only reason people watch debates is because they want to see politicians get humiliated and they want their guy to poo poo on the opposition and he delivers.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

people keep forgeting that trump didnt actually win the debates polling was pretty clear that hilary did albeit by a fairly modest margin

what trump accomplished at the debates was convincing supporters he was a fighter who would go to the mat for their interests no one knew this at the time because we all thought hilary would win then 11/9 happened and everyone learned the chuds were way more motivated than anyone realized

given the piss poor enthusiasm of biden voters youd think they could use a serious rally moment but nope why would we want to do that when we could just run ads about how joes a great dad for two months

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

Gobblecoque posted:

Trump is honestly probably better at debating than any living politician because seems to be the only one that gets that the only reason people watch debates is because they want to see politicians get humiliated and they want their guy to poo poo on the opposition and he delivers.

What are you talking about, he's terrible at debating. He can't do it at all.

Some Guy TT posted:

people keep forgeting that trump didnt actually win the debates polling was pretty clear that hilary did albeit by a fairly modest margin

what trump accomplished at the debates was convincing supporters he was a fighter who would go to the mat for their interests no one knew this at the time because we all thought hilary would win then 11/9 happened and everyone learned the chuds were way more motivated than anyone realized

given the piss poor enthusiasm of biden voters youd think they could use a serious rally moment but nope why would we want to do that when we could just run ads about how joes a great dad for two months

Except now we've seen four years of Trump not "going to the mat for their interests". All those 20 person demonstrations or 10 boat Trump "rallies" also don't speak to enormous enthusiasm for Trump.

Bootleg Trunks
Jun 12, 2020

People think ben shapiro is a skilled debater lmao

PhilippAchtel
May 31, 2011

Fame Douglas posted:

Also, Trump is terrible at any kind of debate.

https://youtu.be/6dw7jHHZrQk

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

Bootleg Trunks posted:

People think ben shapiro is a skilled debater lmao

IIRC he's good at scoring points in the context of academic debate, which is a completely broken system

PhilippAchtel
May 31, 2011

comedyblissoption posted:

here's some extremely easy filters

dont pay attention to anyone who:
1) asks you to vote for biden
2) pushes or goes along with russiagate bullshit
3) pushes cia talking points on state department Official Enemies

this filter will probably remove almost all political commentary in "leftist" social media

Regarding that third point, this was an interesting exchange. Read the discussion between these two in the thread:

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1290103379956338688?s=19

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011

Fame Douglas posted:

What are you talking about, he's terrible at debating. He can't do it at all.

Name a politician who you think is good at debating.

This'll be good.

Egg Moron
Jul 21, 2003

the dreams of the delighting void

Can't believe the CCP is putting all that data into internment camps

Jay-V
Nov 8, 2009

Radish posted:

Pretty much everyone is done with the extreme social distancing we had at the begining of the pandemic. If Biden says they can't have a debate where he is six feet from Trump I don't know how that doesn't come off as extremely weak to anyone outside the Democratic superfans, especially if he's supposed to be the guy solving the issue. Like if Target employees can get to work what's his excuse? That feels like it just leads into "Biden is too scared of covid to show up, why should you brave it to vote?" attacks very easily.

this plus sports people are being forced to play games so we have live TV anyway and plus he debated Bernie way back at the beginning of peak covid frenzy soooooo he a bitch lol

Egg Moron
Jul 21, 2003

the dreams of the delighting void

Gobblecoque posted:

Name a politician who you think is good at debating.

This'll be good.

Trump, obviously

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

Fame Douglas posted:

What are you talking about, he's terrible at debating. He can't do it at all.


Except now we've seen four years of Trump not "going to the mat for their interests". All those 20 person demonstrations or 10 boat Trump "rallies" also don't speak to enormous enthusiasm for Trump.

hes kept more of his campaign promises than obama did, and obama was reelected. also remember that in the early primaries this year republican turnout was higher than democrat turnout in some states. more people showed up to vote for trump in uncontested primaries than showed up to vote for democrats lol

PhilippAchtel
May 31, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

At the risk of instigating leftist infighting I'm going to drop a link to one video each from a left-wing youtuber that I like in the hopes of spreading around some good content:

These are good.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

Fame Douglas posted:

Except now we've seen four years of Trump not "going to the mat for their interests". All those 20 person demonstrations or 10 boat Trump "rallies" also don't speak to enormous enthusiasm for Trump.

did you miss the big poll a few pages ago that showed trump with a ten point approval rating bump compared to 2016

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

my hope is that biden refuses to do the debates and trump responds by inviting all the third party candidates to his own debate with hookers and blackjack

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Some Guy TT posted:

my hope is that biden refuses to do the debates and trump responds by inviting all the third party candidates to his own debate with hookers and blackjack

lmao if Howie Hawkins gets to debate Trump before Biden does

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

Some Guy TT posted:

did you miss the big poll a few pages ago that showed trump with a ten point approval rating bump compared to 2016

also trump is actually giving and promising people poo poo they desperately need while the dems sceam about how better things arent possible

Bootleg Trunks
Jun 12, 2020

McGrath was never going to win but let me disingenuously say that I support booker and he should run against rand Paul next the dems won't support him there either lol

docbeard
Jul 19, 2011

Cerebral Bore posted:

also trump is actually giving and promising people poo poo they desperately need while the dems sceam about how better things arent possible

Well, promising anyway.

galenanorth
May 19, 2016

https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1290115412445732864

What does the Uighur genocide have to do with TikTok being as terrible at privacy protection as every U.S. Silicon Valley company? Are they going to use the data people provide by commenting on cat videos to further that. Why not just decry the Uighur genocide in the first place?

Then he's all "anyone who knows me knows I've decried Silicon Valley's handling of privacy" but no one said anything otherwise. That doesn't have to do with rhetorical focus on a topic.

By analogy, it's like if a Democrat spent all day hammering on Palestinian violations of human rights, which exist, before retreating to "oh, you know I've criticized Israel as well", except that's imperfect because blame isn't equal on all sides on that issue and it's equal on all sides on this issue.

There are also a bunch of leftists in the comments denying that there's a Uighur genocide because of the initial reporting by an American panelist who's a born-again evangelist, ignoring that there have been a lot of articles like

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/23/china-footage-reveals-hundreds-of-blindfolded-and-shackled-prisoners-uighur

since then

galenanorth has issued a correction as of 14:47 on Aug 4, 2020

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

docbeard posted:

Well, promising anyway.

dude made sure that his name is on the checks, so that's what voters will remember

misadventurous
Jun 26, 2013

the wise gem bowed her head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad quartzes. you imbecile. you fucking moron"

Fame Douglas posted:

"Breadtube" "ancap" "nazbol"

Why has political discussion become so moronic.


Sorry the facts don't align with your feelings.

you post in cspam like an old person who just wandered into the wrong room because he forgot where he was going halfway thru

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Fame Douglas posted:

"Breadtube" "ancap" "nazbol"

Why has political discussion become so moronic.


Sorry the facts don't align with your feelings.

gently caress off bootlicker

alarumklok
Jun 30, 2012

galenanorth posted:

https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1290115412445732864

What does the Uighur genocide have to do with TikTok being as terrible at privacy protection as every U.S. Silicon Valley company? Are they going to use the data people provide by commenting on cat videos to further that. Why not just decry the Uighur genocide in the first place?

Then he's all "anyone who knows me knows I've decried Silicon Valley's handling of privacy" but no one said anything otherwise. That doesn't have to do with rhetorical focus on a topic.

By analogy, it's like if a Democrat spent all day hammering on Palestinian violations of human rights, which exist, before retreating to "oh, you know I've criticized Israel as well", except that's imperfect because blame isn't equal on all sides on that equal and it's equal on all sides on this issue.

There are also a bunch of leftists in the comments denying that there's a Uighur genocide because of the initial reporting by an American panelist who's a born-again evangelist, ignoring that there have been a lot of articles like

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/23/china-footage-reveals-hundreds-of-blindfolded-and-shackled-prisoners-uighur

since then

people ostensibly in your camp that you thoughtfully maneuvered your way in to via careful analysis of theory can still be playing political tribalism. leftists are no exception

galenanorth
May 19, 2016

Learning new words is part of being on the Internet. The times change, and it's time to change with it

just look it up on https://www.urbandictionary.com and move on

loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

man it must suck to be old

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

galenanorth posted:

What does the Uighur genocide have to do with TikTok being as terrible at privacy protection as every U.S. Silicon Valley company?

"China is genociding the Uighurs" is held up as proof of China being an authoritarian/totalitarian/dictatorial state, and once you believe that, then you draw a line from it, to "China is using Tiktok to scan your phone for data and is beaming it back to Beijing", and so therefore Tiktok needs either be banned, or be sold to Microsoft so that Microsoft can "oversee security and privacy concerns" over the use of the app.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

galenanorth posted:

https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1290115412445732864

What does the Uighur genocide have to do with TikTok being as terrible at privacy protection as every U.S. Silicon Valley company? Are they going to use the data people provide by commenting on cat videos to further that. Why not just decry the Uighur genocide in the first place?

Then he's all "anyone who knows me knows I've decried Silicon Valley's handling of privacy" but no one said anything otherwise. That doesn't have to do with rhetorical focus on a topic.

By analogy, it's like if a Democrat spent all day hammering on Palestinian violations of human rights, which exist, before retreating to "oh, you know I've criticized Israel as well", except that's imperfect because blame isn't equal on all sides on that issue and it's equal on all sides on this issue.

There are also a bunch of leftists in the comments denying that there's a Uighur genocide because of the initial reporting by an American panelist who's a born-again evangelist, ignoring that there have been a lot of articles like

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/23/china-footage-reveals-hundreds-of-blindfolded-and-shackled-prisoners-uighur

since then
you can just point out that ryan grim is not calling for all silicon valley spying to be banned under the basis that the US has been continuously genociding yemen since the obama administration, suggesting a hypocritical sinophobic position

Zvahl
Oct 14, 2005

научный кот
watching language evolve in the multiple different formats we use it nowadays and what is being said or not said and why and how it is being said is one of the most fundamentally fascinating parts of being human

imagine being so soft brained that you can't even realize what is being talked about with very simple new words as shorthands, or even simple abbreviations like ancap

sounds like a biden voter

loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

Hot take: Microsoft is actually a better steward of any given online property than any other US tech giant would be, because they have spent a couple decades being so incompetent they are not in contention to rule the entire world anymore

Better MS than Amazon or Google or Facebook any day, and obviously better them than Apple

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

ms is bad and works hand in hand with the surveillance state

they happened to get outmaneuvered in the business side but they can be just as competent at the cyberpunk dystopia future

loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

comedyblissoption posted:

ms is bad and works hand in hand with the surveillance state

par for the course

as a webdev guy I have a deep resentment of Google because they literally run the Internet like a state unto themselves, and Amazon is pretty self-evidently evil

I use all of these services daily, though, because Matt Bors well guy

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comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

microsoft was extremely vicious and brutally stamped out alternatives during their reign of terror

extend, embrace, extinguish, etc

theyve somewhat successfully cleaned up their image and put on a mask but dont let it fool you for a second lol

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