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Neddy Seagoon posted:This is the very definition of bad teenage fanfiction. You seem to have a lot of hangups on the concept of retroactive continuity in general but this is the statement that confuses me the most because no, it's not. That's the definition of, uh, writing. Retcons are not always an exclusively bad thing, especially if they're in service to the story, and double especially if they're in service to a direct sequel to a previous work. It's one thing to disagree with the general direction of how a story is written, that's fine, it's fiction. But it's absolutely facile and bordering on tvtropes-level shallow analysis to immediately dismiss something as "fanfiction" because it shook up some previously established thing in the continuity; it's like saying Return of the Jedi is bad fanfic because it establishes that Leia is Luke's sister even though they kissed in A New Hope.
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Aug 4, 2020 15:55
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Onmi posted:I got told for a long time that wing sucked, and it's weird because I have no childhood attachment to the series. So I was actually intrigued that the series is... kinda judged by its opening premise and not anything that actually happens. Or the funniest example, Heero's iconic Rolling Buster that literally everyone who gets in the Wing does. Except Heero. loving Trant Clark is the inventor of that move.
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Aug 4, 2020 15:59
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Neddy Seagoon posted:ReRise only uses Build Divers to dress itself, and even then it blatantly retcons elements to force its own story setup rather than trying to build on the existing show. What does ReRise retcon? I haven't watched BD since it aired but I can't remember anything from it that has been contradicted by ReRise
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Aug 4, 2020 16:15
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technically, that hiroto was one of the many people present during the climax of bd. those dastards.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:17
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3 posted:You seem to have a lot of hangups on the concept of retroactive continuity in general but this is the statement that confuses me the most because no, it's not. That's the definition of, uh, writing. Retcons are not always an exclusively bad thing, especially if they're in service to the story, and double especially if they're in service to a direct sequel to a previous work. It's one thing to disagree with the general direction of how a story is written, that's fine, it's fiction. But it's absolutely facile and bordering on tvtropes-level shallow analysis to immediately dismiss something as "fanfiction" because it shook up some previously established thing in the continuity; it's like saying Return of the Jedi is bad fanfic because it establishes that Leia is Luke's sister even though they kissed in A New Hope. It's not retroactive continuity I have a problem with, it's just someone using a show to force their own self-contained story without at least trying to engage with the original material beyond the bare minimum necessary to propel their own story forward. As I've said; there's plenty of ways to blend this story with Build Divers but it just side-steps GBN entirely to go its own way. Any time it touches the original material isn't intended to engage with it, but only to service ReRise's isekai story. Nothing here is intended to actually build on Build Divers as a show for a followup season, it's just a springboard to get someone's own story told and they're just dressing it up in Gundam to get the budget and staff to make it happen. If you want to take the Star Wars as a comparison; those're building on preceding movies to continue an ongoing story with the same core cast and trappings. The sibling thing is kinda weird after the kiss, but done in service of trying to expand the backstory of existing characters that've been seen for two prior movies. Hiroto and Eve only get slotted into preceding events because it's a cheap way to force their significance upon the audience and places their importance over existing characters and events simply because the show wants them to be the focus. It'd be like if Han Solo only turned up in Empire Strikes Back, but it flashed back to show he actually really was at the Battle of Yavin offscreen, shooting up a whole armada of TIE fighters that would've killed Luke before he reached that final torpedo shot otherwise. Also the movie's about Han now, and Luke never gets seen again after taking off for Dagobah. Also Han's force-sensitive too and MUCH stronger than Luke, he actually nudged the torpedo into the exhaust shaft because Luke really missed. This is the kind of writing I'm talking about.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:20
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Gripweed posted:What does ReRise retcon? I haven't watched BD since it aired but I can't remember anything from it that has been contradicted by ReRise The biggest thing is that there were apparently a ton of AIs running around, not just Sara.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:21
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Zore posted:The biggest thing is that there were apparently a ton of AIs running around, not just Sara. No, there was Eve who nobody knew about, then Sara, and then others popped up at different times since then.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:
And this comparison also doesn't work because in that comparison, Luke's story would be ruined and taken over by Han's. Riku's story is over. It's complete. It had a narrative arc that completed his growth as a character (insomuch as he had one). Nothing being done in this series undermines that at all, so what's the issue?
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Aug 4, 2020 16:30
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Warmachine posted:This is probably something that needs more attention in analysis of the UC, and specifically how it relates to real world social issues. Anaheim is the biggest dick in the room after the OYW, and are responsible for most of the conflicts following the OYW, with the notable exception being Haman's Neo Zeon. AE supplied the weapons for the events of Stardust, the Gryps Conflict, and developed the Psychoframe for Char's Neo Zeon. Not to mention the Unicorns. AE's war profiteering is the gas that keeps the UC wars burning. AE solely supplied AEUG during the events of the Gryps Conflict and in to the first Neo Zeon war, and it's only later additions that have them responsible for the Hizack (whose supplier isn't specified in the animation, but it's used by the Federation who previously manufactured all their own gear and still do in the Titans) and a few retcons in supplementary material have tied them to things like the Psyco Gundam and Bawoo. AE supported AEUG for at least partially selfish reasons, in that they were using the war as a way to show off their technology to win a government contract and also because they were using AEUG as a private army to some degree during the events of Z/ZZ. They were also partially selfless though, because they were one of the only groups funding and supplying resistance to multiple authoritarian movements between the Titans and Neo Zeon. UC would probably be a worse off place than it is without their actions during that time. It's only after they win a government contract following those wars that they start double dealing really, and even that doesn't actually last long because the Federation notices it and starts trying to diversify by the time of F91, with SNRI. Anaheim are only their main contractors from maybe UC0090 to UC0120 or so. During which time they were pretty unscrupulous in Char's Counterattack, Unicorn, Narrative, Hathaway's Flash and possibly more stories if Sunrise makes more, but they weren't actually responsible for at least some of those conflicts and definitely weren't responsible for the conflicts in F91 or Victory. Char's Neo Zeon constructs the Alpha Azieru and several ships on their for instance, and would have gone to war with or without Anaheim's help because their cause wasn't predicated on AE's actions at all. It's worth bearing in mind that AE didn't even exist during 0079 (though there is lore that they were a small civilian company at the time made after the fact), but the principality not only created and manufactured a new weapons platform just to enable a war against the Federation, they turned the homes of others in to weapons on top of that. If AE hadn't constructed the Geara Dogas, then Char's Neo Zeon would probably have found some way to get some anyway going off history and they'd certainly still have access to some weapons regardless. They also aren't really responsible for the events of Narrative, which is more on both Luio & Co and Monaghan Bakharov in the Republic of Zeon. AE did build the units everyone is using, but they were all built before that point and not specifically for that conflict and it was more Liuo & Co's manipulation of events to capture the Phenex that sets everything in Narrative in motion and creates the conflict therein. The events of Unicorn are caused by people in AE, but it's not even based off something inherently nefarious or some scheme to push weapons and/or war for profit, and everything is caused by a guy getting guilty over the suppression that he's built his wealth on as he's dying and trying to make up for it in his final days. Hathaway's Flash is probably the first story where they're genuinely the problem, and even that's presuming the upcoming animation keeps things the same as the novel. Which, at least from what I know of it, has AE giving a new suit to some rebels to undercut the advent of smaller mobile suit design and basically trying to keep their expensive design philosophy relevant. Now, that said, 0083 kind of undercuts all that, because it has them already supplying the Federation and because an AE exec gives Cima a Gundam, but even there, the records are wiped out so it doesn't completely change the point and only one guy supplies Cima, who is officially a pirate with a unit they no longer have a buyer for. It still does act to weaken the narrative built up in other works really, but prequels generally futz continuity in some fashion and I don't like 0083 all that much anyway, so I don't pay it much mind.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:34
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Endorph posted:That comparison doesn't work at all, though. Hiroto didn't singlehandedly turn the tide of the battle or anything, he was just a guy who was there and had a clear shot at Riku once. It's more like if a Star Wars novel was made about one of the guys who was with Darth Vader when he was chasing Luke in the Death Star's trench a major character. They actually did that with the Death Star gunner who kept going 'stand by'. Turned out the guy was stalling because he had PTSD from popping Alderaan.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:34
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's not retroactive continuity I have a problem with, it's just someone using a show to force their own self-contained story without at least trying to engage with the original material beyond the bare minimum necessary to propel their own story forward. As I've said; there's plenty of ways to blend this story with Build Divers but it just side-steps GBN entirely to go its own way. Any time it touches the original material isn't intended to engage with it, but only to service ReRise's isekai story. Nothing here is intended to actually build on Build Divers as a show for a followup season, it's just a springboard to get someone's own story told and they're just dressing it up in Gundam to get the budget and staff to make it happen. None of that happens in Re:RISE though, and Hiroto and Eve are explicitly shown to have affected nothing. That's like where the entire arc of his suffering comes from, you're hung up on the idea that "well he could've shot down Riku" or "well she could've saved GBN" but refusing to acknowledge that 1) they didn't, and 2) that failure is what drives his character and thus is integral to how the story of the sequel is told. You can have a direct sequel to a story that plays in the same space without being a direct followup (or do you think Kamille is also a fanfic character because he gets to be an ace pilot and best buds with
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Aug 4, 2020 16:35
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's not retroactive continuity I have a problem with, it's just someone using a show to force their own self-contained story without at least trying to engage with the original material beyond the bare minimum necessary to propel their own story forward. As I've said; there's plenty of ways to blend this story with Build Divers but it just side-steps GBN entirely to go its own way. Any time it touches the original material isn't intended to engage with it, but only to service ReRise's isekai story. Nothing here is intended to actually build on Build Divers as a show for a followup season, it's just a springboard to get someone's own story told and they're just dressing it up in Gundam to get the budget and staff to make it happen. I think establishing that EL-Divers were a continuing thing, and they used how they saved Sara as the model for how to deal with them counts as building on Build Divers. The thing where the Build Divers were so inspirational and cool they caused a little boy from another world to seek them out to save his family feels like building upon and also up Build Divers too. And it looks like it's gonna end with a big Coalition battle over the future of a non human lifeform discovered in GBN, like Build Divers did, but now everybody is on the same side. Which seems like a fitting ending to a followup to Build Divers You complain that it doesn't blend with the first story, but it literally does, the events of BD were super important for ReRise's lead, but that doesn't count because it's bad actually because it establishes the lead of ReRise instead of being about the Build Divers characters? Yes, it services ReRise's story because this is loving ReRise, of course everything in it services ReRise's story! If there was BD content in ReRise that didn't service ReRise's story, then it would be extraneous to the story of ReRise and should've been cut out! That's how stories work!
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Aug 4, 2020 16:37
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Endorph posted:That comparison doesn't work at all, though. Hiroto didn't singlehandedly turn the tide of the battle or anything, he was just a guy who was there and had a clear shot at Riku once. It's more like if a Star Wars novel was made about one of the guys who was with Darth Vader when he was chasing Luke in the Death Star's trench a major character. I don't have a horse in this race but isn't a better comparison an Imperial sniper that has a bead on Luke during, well, any of his duels with Darth Vader? The stakes for Luke (Riku) and Vader (the Champ) add up, and the role of "just someone in the audience" adds up for the sniper (Hiroto). It was clearly broadcast that, during the pinnacle of Riku's battle, Hiroto could have single handedly brought it to an end. But if I was introduced to a Star Wars story and that was supplied as the background for its titular character I couldn't help but roll my eyes. At least from my perspective it's not about what the new character could have or would have done and the consequences, but it's delivering that kind of story development for a new character by robbing a previous engagement of the stakes and emotional buildup you thought it had. I'm not saying they're equivalent per se as I could care less for Riku but it's a common trope and not one I like.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:42
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Gripweed posted:it looks like it's gonna end with a big Coalition battle over the future of a non human lifeform discovered in GBN, I really don't think it will. Re:Rise has taken a good bit of time to establish that Freddie is the only Eldoran we know of who can actually using the summoning software, that the mission is locked to 5 specific people (Masaki, Hiroto, May, Kazami and Par) and that all the other summoning platforms that the cast know of outside Milaag Mountain are busted and have little to no shining sand remaining regardless. Which Magee knows, because the show has established that May has told him at least some of this. We've also never been shown more than a handful of summoning platforms in Cuadron's chamber on Milaag Mountain, and Cuadron himself is actively opposed to bringing people in from GBN to help, so even if he knows of more, then he has no reason to tell people. I also don't think the current Build Divers (Hiroto etc) would want to bring in more people, since they know that doing so endangers anyone who does. If anything, I think it's likely that the one bringing in others to help him will be Alus. He has access to the summoning system, would know of any other summoning platforms outside Milaag Mountain, knows that players from GBN make for better pawns than his own robotic One Eyes (whether or not he directly controls them) and has no reason to care if players from GBN are hurt or killed for his cause. Magee didn't even specifically say that he wanted players to help him on a raid/mission; only that he wanted players to help him figure something out. Which sounds more like he wants them to help the Divers formulate a plan than to raid Eldora. The show could change all of that to enable a raid, but it just seems weird that it'd start the process by having Magee, a character who should think it's impossible to organize a raid and should know it's dangerous to do so regardless, getting people to sign up rather than by demonstrating that some of the restrictions no longer apply and/or having others demonstrate that they want to help regardless of the danger. tsob fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Aug 4, 2020 |
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Aug 4, 2020 16:46
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Zodack posted:I don't have a horse in this race but isn't a better comparison an Imperial sniper that has a bead on Luke during, well, any of his duels with Darth Vader? The stakes for Luke (Riku) and Vader (the Champ) add up, and the role of "just someone in the audience" adds up for the sniper (Hiroto). But if I was introduced to a Star Wars story and that was supplied as the background for its titular character I couldn't help but roll my eyes. The thing is, it wasn't a duel. It was a big Coalition battle with a bunch of MS on both sides. And in the moment Hiroto had Riku in his sights, Riku wasn't fighting anyone he was just flying, but the overall battle was still going on. So Riku getting sniped by some random Team Avalon member could've happened in the original show without it being weird, whereas if Luke was fighting Darth Vader in the evil factory in Star Wars and then some random Stormtrooper had shot him from offscreen, it would've been weird.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:48
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Gripweed posted:The thing is, it wasn't a duel. It was a big Coalition battle with a bunch of MS on both sides. And in the moment Hiroto had Riku in his sights, Riku wasn't fighting anyone he was just flying, but the overall battle was still going on. So Riku getting sniped by some random Team Avalon member could've happened in the original show without it being weird, whereas if Luke was fighting Darth Vader in the evil factory in Star Wars and then some random Stormtrooper had shot him from offscreen, it would've been weird. I must have misremembered the moment as Riku about to square off against the champ for the final time and Hiroto having the opportunity to end the fight there. It would have been neat to set that up with other randos taking shots at Riku and missing (and maybe they do). To be fair I've only seen a handful of episodes from both series and I can't say I care for either, but I do like ReRise's direction much more than Divers' so I'm enjoying the discussion. It would have been nice to have seen Hiroto set up in passing as a background character in Divers somehow (for whatever reason Kuvira in S3 of Korra vs. S4 sticks out to me) but I know at least that's not how this kind of anime production works.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:59
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I got bored and spent a little while the other night decoding the Eldora language seen on the screens in the ruined shrines and in Alus' control room. It's simply a character swap for the English alphabet, so it wasn't too hard once you get easy hits like the character names on screen here.    I haven't noticed any deep lore hints they hid in the text, but a fun detail is that the lunar cannon is blaring out warning messages that it's already hosed and broken even before Alus fires it.    
jackhunter64 fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Aug 4, 2020 |
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Aug 4, 2020 17:20
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Zodack posted:I must have misremembered the moment as Riku about to square off against the champ for the final time and Hiroto having the opportunity to end the fight there. It would have been neat to set that up with other randos taking shots at Riku and missing (and maybe they do). To be fair I've only seen a handful of episodes from both series and I can't say I care for either, but I do like ReRise's direction much more than Divers' so I'm enjoying the discussion. It would have been nice to have seen Hiroto set up in passing as a background character in Divers somehow (for whatever reason Kuvira in S3 of Korra vs. S4 sticks out to me) but I know at least that's not how this kind of anime production works. Radio chatter told the mooks not to interfere for reasons (???? ?). But there's a bigger point: I don't recall anyone saying "Yeah, Hiroto would have totally won if he'd actually taken the shot." We don't actually know what would have happened if he fired, he never brags about what he could have done. The crux of his failure isn't that he totally could have shot the Sky down and done in everything. It's that he was contemplating trying and that in and of itself was enough to violate what Eve wanted. The outcome was far from certain, so I think it's a bit of a projection to say Hiroto could have totally shot Riku down. The most we know is that he was taking aim to try. Which as was pointed out, there were probably quite a few people staring at him through their scopes at that moment. If this qualifies as putting undue importance on a character, then... uh... what exactly is the safest way to have new characters interact with existing cast? Shinn? The guy who was the protagonist until the real protagonist comes back to dunk on him?
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Aug 4, 2020 17:58
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3 posted:Like I've said before, it's shallow surface-level analysis and frankly weird to say that Re:RISE is simultaneously a self-contained story that doesn't require Build Divers to function, while complaining about the structural building blocks the show takes from Build Divers to show character growth. The building blocks Re:Rise takes from Build Divers are only applied to dress itself up for the bare-minimum relevance rather than actually to do anything for the main story. The core story conceit here writ-large is "Hiroto met a girl in an MMO who turned out to be an AI, only it turns out there's many AI's and they're all probably digital alien spirits leaking in from another world over the internet. Hiroto and Co go adventuring on a new MMO quest that turns out to be an isekai adventure", and there's not really a lot of GBN or Build Divers in that beyond a reference to the titular name. The Eldoran design elements are all rooted in typical fantasy/magitech MMO concepts, (villages wanting heroes, towns with festival events, animalistic demi-human people) and it makes it more eyebrow-raising than was probably intended for a self-contained story, as the MMO setting it's wound up built atop is a Gundam-themed one and doesn't really apply those concepts the same way where predominantly instanced objective-based missions and battles. It gives the "oops it's real" twist away almost immediately, compared to if the story was built atop another setting or its own original one, where saving a village for a story quest is the bread-and-butter for any adventurer grinding XP. jackhunter64 posted:I haven't noticed any deep lore hints they hid in the text, but a fun detail is that the lunar cannon is blaring out warning messages that it's already hosed and broken even before Alus fires it.  . Is there anything of note in that block of text on the left-hand side?Warmachine posted:But there's a bigger point: I don't recall anyone saying "Yeah, Hiroto would have totally won if he'd actually taken the shot." We don't actually know what would have happened if he fired, he never brags about what he could have done. The crux of his failure isn't that he totally could have shot the Sky down and done in everything. It's that he was contemplating trying and that in and of itself was enough to violate what Eve wanted. No, by that point we've seen Hiroto's sniping abilities taking on Alus, and the direct intent of that scene is "Hiroto was a trigger-pull away from icing Riku out of grief because HIS magical AI friend died". Injecting a character into a past event shouldn't refocus the original scene upon themselves rather than just providing new facets to the original scene. Hiroto being at the battle as part of Avalon isn't a bad thing on its own, the issue is it becomes "Riku was only able to win because Hiroto chose not to shoot him", as it now re-contextualizes the original battle as not about being Riku overcoming adversity and succeeding by his own skills as a builder and fighter, but because Hiroto permitted it to happen to demonstrate to the audience he's a better builder and fighter. Shinn's actually a good example here; his deal was being right underfoot at the battle of Orb, trying to get out of dodge while big robots with guns blew things up overhead and he was powerless to do anything except run to the evac ships and pray like hundreds of others. The past events provides context for who he is, and brings a new facet to that scene because we get a look at what it was like for those evacuating as helpless civilians, rather than the cool soldiers in big advance robots and battleships dictating events. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Aug 4, 2020 |
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Aug 4, 2020 18:20
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An MMO reconning an event to secretly not being the first time something happens/a big bad having an even bigger bad as boss is a genre staple tbh. Your milage may vary on liking it ofc.
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Aug 4, 2020 18:39
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I really, really, really never thought I'd see someone die on the hill of defending the purity of Gundam Build Divers canon.
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Aug 4, 2020 18:53
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*in char voice* you're wasting your talents!
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Aug 4, 2020 18:57
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In unrelated news I just finished Turn A for the first time and am trying to sort that all out in my head. Especially the last third or fourth of it.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:07
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Neddy Seagoon posted:the issue is it becomes "Riku was only able to win because Hiroto chose not to shoot him", as it now re-contextualizes the original battle as not about being Riku overcoming adversity and succeeding by his own skills as a builder and fighter, but because Hiroto permitted it to happen to demonstrate to the audience he's a better builder and fighter. You do not remember the events of Build Divers. Riku did not win because of his own skills as a builder and a fighter. That is simply not what happened. Riku won because many other people and Forces joined him. That is what happened. And that scene doesn't even show Hiroto is a better builder and fighter. He hid and was going to snipe him. Neither of those establish Hiroto as either a better builder or fighter than Riku. And, as I've said before, if you think the purpose of that scene is to communicate to the audience that Hiroto is better than Riku, then you have profoundly misunderstood that scene. It is Riku at his most heroic and Hiroto at his lowest. That is the distinction being drawn. It is not a comparison of skill, it's a comparison of righteousness. The game announcer says "BATTLE ENDED. WINNER: BUILD DIVERS" and the flashback ends with Hiroto smiling smugly at his choice to spare Riku's life. Wait, no, it ends Hiroto vomiting in his cockpit and the Core Gundam literally covered in filth   How you managed to get the idea that that scene was supposed to communicate Hiroto's superiority over Riku is genuinely baffling to me.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:25
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Neddy Seagoon posted:No, by that point we've seen Hiroto's sniping abilities taking on Alus, and the direct intent of that scene is "Hiroto was a trigger-pull away from icing Riku out of grief because HIS magical AI friend died". Injecting a character into a past event shouldn't refocus the original scene upon themselves rather than just providing new facets to the original scene. Hiroto being at the battle as part of Avalon isn't a bad thing on its own, the issue is it becomes "Riku was only able to win because Hiroto chose not to shoot him", as it now re-contextualizes the original battle as not about being Riku overcoming adversity and succeeding by his own skills as a builder and fighter, but because Hiroto permitted it to happen to demonstrate to the audience he's a better builder and fighter. And more than that, the scene itself places no emphasis on building or fighting. Hiroto just happens to have a shot lined up. It isn't because his suit is better, or because he's some incredibly skilled fighter, he just had a chance to shoot him down. The scene is illustrating, through the medium of the original show, that Hiroto loving sucked. That he, in his depression, nearly lashed out to try and make someone else feel the same pain he felt. That's how depression works, lashing out is a really common symptom when you're in the worst of it. It was Hiroto at his absolute lowest. That function only works if you accept the premise that Riku was a fundamentally good person who deserved the happy ending he got, so it doesn't undermine the original series at all. Riku was used for this purpose because he was a person at risk of feeling the same loss Hiroto felt. Creating an entirely separate scenario where Hiroto could have possibly done the same thing would have been a waste of narrative time and effort when they had a perfectly good scenario already prepared. And the show's called 'rerise,' it needs that scene of Hiroto just barely stopping himself from hitting absolute rock bottom so he can slowly climb back up from that point. I guess the scene does require a bit of backfill and is a slight stretch in logic, but... who cares? It serves an obvious emotional and narrative purpose and saves the show an episode or two of setup that it would have otherwise had to do. It's effective, efficient storytelling. That's like, the exact opposite of stereotypical fanfiction. To me, the idea of thinking the original work is so pure that it must not be altered at all and having to awkwardly write around it just so you don't tamper with it at all, is way more 'fanficcy.' It's an obsession with canon and 'word of god' above all else.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:27
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Zodack posted:In unrelated news I just finished Turn A for the first time and am trying to sort that all out in my head. Especially the last third or fourth of it. I'm still not quite sure I like the finale of Turn A and I finished it years ago. I love the rest of the show, but the final stretch isn't as great to me if for no other reason than because Gym just isn't that interesting as a villain. Entertaining, sure, but not really interesting. He doesn't challenge the cast ideologically and is really just there as "and now here's a villain you can punch in the face until the bad stops" and wrap things up. I'm always slightly disappointed in the final fights too. There are definitely some cool moments, like Corin punching the Turn X in the dick, but it feels like the Turn A and Turn X should have either been more, given the things that Turn A is shown to be capable of, or less (i.e. a really quick, brutal fight) and instead it's just a fairly standard fight with Loran and Gym shouting at each other until they beam saber each other's unit. The epilogue facet is nice at least.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:28
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I think Gym works as basically a personification of the kind of things that led to the Dark History. He's not especially interesting, he doesn't have much interior life, he just cares purely about his honor, his pride, and dominating his enemies. Shining Finger! And one minor detail I really like is when Gym smugly throws a sword to Loran and asks if he's ever been in a sword fight, when, if you think about it, Loran has probably been in exactly one more sword fight than Gym.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:30
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Gym's a sheltered, entitled douchebag gamer who has access to the technology that led to the Black History, but has none of the life experience that might give him the wisdom to avoid it. He's a perfectly appropriate and resonant villain for a show about discovery and empathy - his lack of depth is both voluntary and intrinsically tied to his villainy.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:36
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I thoroughly enjoyed the pace and story up until about them landing on the moon. It felt rushed by then and it would have been nice to have seen the moon get as much of a slow burn as the earth did on unfolding what life was like and how people spent their day to day. The series spent an enormous amount of time on doing the worldbuilding for the Earth and how it had developed since the Dark History so I was hoping to see a contrast on the Moon after the show cleverly never shows you anything happening there once. Even Agrippa, mentioned early on, is only personified once they're there. I enjoyed the epilogue (poor Sochie) and I thoroughly enjoyed every second Harry Ord had on screen. There were a lot of small moments like the swordfight that gave me a laugh, such as Guin saying "I doubt the leader of the industrial world would wear a skirt" as he leaves and Lily quipping back she would do just that or probably one of my favorite lines which was, upon seeing the Dark History, remarking that the "Borjanons" showed up in basically every timeline.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:41
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Darth Walrus posted:Gym's a sheltered, entitled douchebag gamer who has access to the technology that led to the Black History, but has none of the life experience that might give him the wisdom to avoid it. He's a perfectly appropriate and resonant villain for a show about discovery and empathy - his lack of depth is both voluntary and intrinsically tied to his villainy. Gym doesn't want to avoid it. I'm pretty sure he flat out tells Loran that he wants to bring about another Dark History, because he sees society as is as too stagnant and too wrapped up in taboos about technology and violence. Which he thinks are wonderful things, with one feeding the other. Zodack posted:There were a lot of small moments like the swordfight that gave me a laugh, such as Guin saying "I doubt the leader of the industrial world would wear a skirt" as he leaves and Lily quipping back she would do just that or probably one of my favorite lines which was, upon seeing the Dark History, remarking that the "Borjanons" showed up in basically every timeline. Lily telling Guin she'll be busy leading the world in a skirt after he says that the world isn't ready for it is a nice burn on him. Also, I always love that the Amerians see Gavane's Zaku I as a leader unit and better than the regular Borjarnon because they only found 1 of them and so it must be rare/better. tsob fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Aug 4, 2020 |
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Aug 4, 2020 19:42
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I'm not going to derail this argument over rise again, but Alus says that Hiroto's "perfect self" was when he was about to shoot Riku, which causes Hirito to get insanely pissed off. . Hiroto also breaks down his tears when he finally talks about the time he almost shot Riku and ruined everything. This event was Hiroto's lowest point. Everything about the way the scene was shot, hiroto's reactions before and after the firing, it is 100% clear and if one guy is just really that bad as misinterpreting the scene to somehow suggest Hirito was an awesome fighter and so cool, there's no further point in arguing. Build divers has excellent character writing and there's only so much the writer/director can do.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:45
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Gym is the culmination of Gavane Gooley going "says you!" to the Moonrace warning him about the armed nukes and then dying, or Sochie being reckless because she hates all Moonrace, or the Phil faction causing Zeona's death because they greedily wanted the leftover nukes, or Sweatson Stero wanting to "satisfy his DNA" by fighting the Turn A and not caring about collateral damage. There's so much storytelling throughout with characters who are simply too self absorbed or ignorant to stop and think about what their actions would do to others or those around them because they're too hotheaded, prejudged, or fight-hungry.tsob posted:Also, I always love that the Amerians see Gavane's Zaku I as a leader unit and better than the regular Borjarnon because they only found 1 of them and so it must be rare/better. I did not even catch that part, that's hilarious. I could tell it was a different model Zaku but I've not seen much 0079 and my gunpla habits are largely not UC, so it's even funnier they thought that it was an improved unit since there was only one of them
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Aug 4, 2020 19:50
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https://twitter.com/AniPlaylist/status/1286657885104209952?s=20 They're also on Apple Music, along with Kanno's Cowboy Bebop OST. What a phenomenal pair of shows to score, both like a year apart. Neddy Seagoon posted:That's really cool It looks like it's just numbers, nothing quite as good as the PC parts from 08th MS Team.
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Aug 4, 2020 20:49
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tsob posted:Gym doesn't want to avoid it. Yes, that's what Darth Walrus was saying. He lacks the wisdom to know its a bad idea.
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Aug 4, 2020 22:18
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jackhunter64 posted:It looks like it's just numbers, nothing quite as good as the PC parts from 08th MS Team. I think my favorite freeze frame stuff is still when IBO had Kudelia's complete biography in English on someone's tablet you just saw for less than a minute. It's kind of interesting how different Gundam shows handle languages. The UC and IBO both have written material be in English, implying that the dubs are more accurate to what's "actually" happening, in the same way as people in Rome didn't actually speak English with RP accents.
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Aug 4, 2020 22:56
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Its noteworthy that for a major Japanese franchise, only Seed and G have fully Japanese protagonists. Besides the Build stuff, anyway. And I guess Shiro from 08th MS Team? And even with Seed and 08th, its mostly just the protagonists. So yeah the only series where I could see a lot of Japanese being spoken 'in universe' is G. Rain and Domon would probably talk to each other in it, anyway. Endorph fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Aug 4, 2020 |
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Aug 4, 2020 23:02
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tsob posted:I really don't think it will. Re:Rise has taken a good bit of time to establish that Freddie is the only Eldoran we know of who can actually using the summoning software, that the mission is locked to 5 specific people (Masaki, Hiroto, May, Kazami and Par) and that all the other summoning platforms that the cast know of outside Milaag Mountain are busted and have little to no shining sand remaining regardless. The big elephant in the room is that they're making new versions of the protagonist suits from the previous series so they're probably going to show up in the next few episodes. Which I am perfectly happy with because I liked the Divers cast. Their story was a whole lot of nothing but the characters themselves were fun. Magee being this cool mentor figure to May and Shahryar being a large part of Par's character and motivation has been really enjoyable so far so I'm excited to see what they do with the rest of them. everythingWasBees fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Aug 4, 2020 |
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Aug 4, 2020 23:26
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everythingWasBees posted:The big elephant in the room is that they're making new versions of the protagonist suits from the previous series so they're probably going to show up in the next few episodes. If nothing else, I'm definitely more confident about the current writing staff's ability to use the OG cast in a much more compelling way than the original showrunners could, weird fanfic complaints notwithstanding of course 
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Aug 5, 2020 00:03
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3 posted:If nothing else, I'm definitely more confident about the current writing staff's ability to use the OG cast in a much more compelling way than the original showrunners could, weird fanfic complaints notwithstanding of course I for one am thankful that the Bible Black writer took over
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Aug 5, 2020 00:24
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Endorph posted:Its noteworthy that for a major Japanese franchise, only Seed and G have fully Japanese protagonists. Besides the Build stuff, anyway. And I guess Shiro from 08th MS Team? And even with Seed and 08th, its mostly just the protagonists. Was Kira born in Japan? I can't find confirmation either way on that one. I know Shiro's a Spacenoid, at least. Side 2 born and bred. (Domon's spaceborn too, but Neo Japan is pretty much just Japan in Space, unlike the colonies in First Gundam, so it counts well enough.) If we're counting Japanese heritage, I'd think Mikazuki Augus would at least be worth bringing up. The setting's far enough in the future that him being a poor Martian had much more relevance than where his long dead great grandparents were born, but there's a couple scenes where it comes up.
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Aug 5, 2020 00:42
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