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pidan posted:Nah modern society really needs someone to verwahr your children while you work, forget about learning things or avoiding the plague, as long as the parents can go sell their labor in peace it's fine. I blame the patriarchy.
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Aug 7, 2020 20:30
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https://twitter.com/DLFNachrichten/status/1291660255341019136?s=19 Well that lasted a long time!
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Aug 7, 2020 21:59
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Spice World War II posted:https://twitter.com/DLFNachrichten/status/1291660255341019136?s=19 What's the big deal, they've still got three schools open. Play ball!
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Aug 7, 2020 22:02
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Who even profits monetarily from school being open, or is this simply some administrators being thickheaded death cultists who want to think if they ignore the danger it will go away on its own? I do not understand this anymore
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Aug 7, 2020 22:07
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Schools open means parents can work means number go down not as steeply as before, at least that's what I think. And then there's domestic violence/violence against children which spikes when they're left alone with their parents too long or something.
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Aug 7, 2020 22:09
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Yeah many people are probably trying to do homeoffice + child care + wirtschaftliche Sorgen and losing their entire goddamn minds
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Aug 7, 2020 22:17
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It is very very taxing for two parents to work and have the kids at home (the smaller the worse). For those anti-natalists who say "ahah who told you to have spawn, can't you handle your own kids", well, what I can say is that nobody was prepared for such a scenario, right? It's like blaming people for opening bars and then being out of income for many months - the rules of the game changed suddenly, unexpectedly, and without warning. I have the luck of having a very tolerant Arbeitgeber, but I cannot imagine how it is for someone whose job is on the line. Again returning to the school opening chat, what about the Kitas opening? They have been working at 100% since the beginning of June and they don't seem to play a role. So I wonder why schools are an inherently different case. Kids are older and have more of those receptors, I guess?
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Aug 8, 2020 00:43
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skipThings posted:Who even profits monetarily from school being open, or is this simply some administrators being thickheaded death cultists who want to think if they ignore the danger it will go away on its own? It's mainly the (weaker) pupils who should profit from the reopening. I guess closed schools were OK for teachers who got paid their full salary for doing half their job, it probably also was OK for children with a bildungshintergrund and parents who could help them out. It probably was less than OK for the parents. It's really astonishing how the educational system dropped the ball on this one and didn't adapt well to corona. There's a grim study on how little teaching was done during the lockdown. I can see how the verbeamtete Schuldienst isn't the best environment for "creative on the spot solutions", but it must have been a real shitshow on an aggregated level as they weren't dependent on customer satisfaction to get paid. https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/bil...15-4d2e53790315 Einbauschrank fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 01:26
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Yeah, if only teachers would get paid on sanctification and feedback by parents or their pupils, that would surely be a great market based solution for our current problems
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Aug 8, 2020 02:09
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There’s been a lot of reports (aka hearsay afaik) of teachers doing jack poo poo (and/or being Risikogrupped) and it’s true that covid massively exaggerated the tilt towards rich kids, leaving the poor/uneducated behind, but that’s a feature, not a bug of the Bildungssystem.
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Aug 8, 2020 07:14
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Oliwan are you okay
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Aug 8, 2020 07:15
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AndreTheGiantBoned posted:
In Israel at least it was apparently the kids aged 10+ that contributed to most of the spread but I don't think anybody knows for sure why.
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Aug 8, 2020 08:03
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skipThings posted:Who even profits monetarily from school being open, or is this simply some administrators being thickheaded death cultists who want to think if they ignore the danger it will go away on its own? Schools are there to warehouse kids so more surplus value can be extracted from the parents. It does other things too, but you clearly see the priorities in the current debate.
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Aug 8, 2020 08:26
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I wonder how many of the posters in this thread are actually parents with a full time job. There's a lot of Capitalism.txt going around, and that obviously has a lot of merit. But that doesn't help those who actually do have to work to earn their rent etc. with their children at home. A good friend of mine is a single mother with an 11 year old daughter. She's super stressed by all of this, she had to work less hours and scramble for find "babysitters" for her daughter. She has the Sorgerecht over the well-off father, and it was not an amicable divorce! Legally, she has Betreuungspflicht until her daughter is 13 (or14?), and letting her kid unbeaufsichtigt at home, and the father getting wind of it (he has his daughter two weekends a month) will inevitably mean a return to the Betreungsgericht. The whole situation has put of lot of strain on her, and though she also worries about her daughters health, she simply can't provide a home and food for her daughter much longer with her reduced hours. Of course this should call for a total overhaul of our economic system, but good luck with that. Absent such changes, school openings are simply a necessity.
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Aug 8, 2020 08:48
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Same. I'm a little surprised by people complaining BOTH about the system being stacked in favour of the well-off-people AND about the state trying to at least reducing those stacks with re-opened schools.... but why no maskenpflicht, though? Most bundesländer seem to just reopen schools as if there'd be no pandemic around.
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Aug 8, 2020 09:42
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Torrannor posted:I wonder how many of the posters in this thread are actually parents with a full time job. There's a lot of Capitalism.txt going around, and that obviously has a lot of merit. But that doesn't help those who actually do have to work to earn their rent etc. with their children at home. A good friend of mine is a single mother with an 11 year old daughter. She's super stressed by all of this, she had to work less hours and scramble for find "babysitters" for her daughter. She has the Sorgerecht over the well-off father, and it was not an amicable divorce! Legally, she has Betreuungspflicht until her daughter is 13 (or14?), and letting her kid unbeaufsichtigt at home, and the father getting wind of it (he has his daughter two weekends a month) will inevitably mean a return to the Betreungsgericht. The whole situation has put of lot of strain on her, and though she also worries about her daughters health, she simply can't provide a home and food for her daughter much longer with her reduced hours. Yeah the whole system is hosed up but it was kinda working. Lots of hosed up things, schools not being ready for Lernen 4.0, child abuse, custody issues, care work issues, lovely special ed, etc etc but it was kind of working. I get the feeling it's a lot of stuff that where if you push one thing over the brink everything stands to fall down like dominoes, and it was happening to everyone and it was affecting all the things for a while so I can kind of understand the scramble to get back to normal. My therapist said yesterday if we don't try to sort of live with the 'roni the economy/businesses will tank and then there's gonna be more suicides than covid deaths. That and it's really interesting to see just how much people care about their Urlaub. Sure it's easy to be an armchair communist and say, you should work less hours/a more fun job if you NEED Urlaub, but it's just not how it is right now and I think a lot of people don't even care much, probably because they're so wound up in their Hamsterrad. But eh, maybe they're happy in the Hamsterrad? Can't argue with that. I'm starting to get more and more around to the idea of trying to live with Covid but seeing people being dumb about their masks and basic distancing hygiene still scares me. So in effect I isolate where I can. Really glad I got my job life sorted and no kids, it's an extremely privileged position and I'm grateful for that. Had Corona hit a year earlier I'd have been hosed.
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Aug 8, 2020 09:52
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Lord Stimperor posted:Oliwan are you okay For the poor pig's sake I hope there was some food in there with the laptop, otherwise this impressive raid was entirely pointless.
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Aug 8, 2020 10:26
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Eh, considering the state of digitalization and teacher‘s salaries, still a good haul.
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Aug 8, 2020 10:33
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Zwille posted:Yeah the whole system is hosed up but it was kinda working. Lots of hosed up things, schools not being ready for Lernen 4.0, child abuse, custody issues, care work issues, lovely special ed, etc etc but it was kind of working. I get the feeling it's a lot of stuff that where if you push one thing over the brink everything stands to fall down like dominoes, and it was happening to everyone and it was affecting all the things for a while so I can kind of understand the scramble to get back to normal. Nothing wrong with Urlaub. But travelling during it is really lovely and I have no idea what people are thinking. I get that it's inconvenient to not being able to fly to Bali for 4 mark fuchzig whenever you want, but we are living through the biggest crisis of the 21th century und dann geht das halt grad nicht und man muss warten. It's like people feeling wronged cause they couldn't have a nice day at the beach in Normandy on d day.
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Aug 8, 2020 10:50
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I learned this year that I love spending time outdoors and I'm buying a tent to put up next month on the Campingplatz
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Aug 8, 2020 11:01
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Maybe more people will start to care about BGE now  Jk, people are too loving brainwashed.
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Aug 8, 2020 11:12
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Libluini posted:For the poor pig's sake I hope there was some food in there with the laptop, otherwise this impressive raid was entirely pointless. It can show its friends funny YT Human videos now though.
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Aug 8, 2020 11:43
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https://twitter.com/schmidtlepp/status/1291857249623781377?s=21
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Aug 8, 2020 12:18
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KonvexKonkav posted:In Israel at least it was apparently the kids aged 10+ that contributed to most of the spread but I don't think anybody knows for sure why. It appears simply to be that young kid cells have less ACE2 receptors because they're not fully specialized yet, but not none. Thus they get covid, and it develops in and spreads from them, but they develop symptoms less harshly making them even stealthier carriers.
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Aug 8, 2020 12:44
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Stealthier carriers... Mithaldu, the topic is an earnest one, but if you don't stop obsessing about visible and invisible threats, you will get a heart attack by the end of the year. Kitas have been open in normal conditions since the beginning of June. They have been open in other countries as well, and its opening does not seem to be connected with a measurable increase in coronavirus cases. (Unless you care to give me data indicating otherwise). Think about this. How many kita-connected outbreaks (and I mean outbreaks, not "a kita has been closed because a kid has tested positive") have happened since the on-set of this crisis?
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Aug 8, 2020 14:12
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Within one week of going back to Kita our daughter schleppt us in a Sommergrippe. Of 10 kids in the group 8 were infected. So if Rona gets in I don't see how it wouldn't gently caress poo poo up. Of course Kita Groups are small, don't use ÖPNV, etc. so schools might be worse even if they don't actively lick things.
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Aug 8, 2020 14:21
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niethan posted:Of course Kita Groups are small, don't use ÖPNV, Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh they do, they do
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Aug 8, 2020 14:26
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Something that fucks me up is how it's apparently common practice to experimentally drop off your feverish kid at the Kita and see if they call you to take it back. Even pre-roni I'd pepperspray a motherfucker who knowingly exposed me to something that gives you a fever just so they're rid of it for the day.Libluini posted:For the poor pig's sake I hope there was some food in there with the laptop, otherwise this impressive raid was entirely pointless. Also it is sad to see how the school closings are forcing this single mom to take her kids along to work aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 14:30
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Zwille posted:Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Do 4-year olds go in a bus or what do you mean?
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Aug 8, 2020 14:41
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AndreTheGiantBoned posted:Stealthier carriers... Mithaldu, the topic is an earnest one, but if you don't stop obsessing about visible and invisible threats, you will get a heart attack by the end of the year. Covid's primary feature being how stealthy it is has been a thing since january. As for Kitas, a number of thoughts: - the opening appears to be staggered, for example hessen opened up on july 6 - kitas are not open in normal conditions, they're open in "Regelbetrieb unter Pandemiebedingungen", which means everyone has specific rules for Kitas to follow. even if newspapers claim they're "fully open", if you google specific documents you'll find they're not in "Normalbetrieb" - pure speculation, but very young children might have so few ACE2 that it actually inhibits the virus - kita groups tend to be smaller than school classes and due to a lack of needing to change class rooms there is less danger of mixing cohorts - googling kindergarten covid i find several articles reporting infection of betreuer - do you have numbers of how many parents are sending their kids to kindergarten as before and how many are keeping them home anyhow? - speculation: in kitas betreuer have less work to do as teachers and more time to actually pay attention to kids and detect weak symptoms - betreuers might be more aware of the issues and unlike werkvertragsarbeiter more likely to actually take sick days and self-isolate when they learn they become infected, thus curbing further spread - betreuers have more covid testing available
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Aug 8, 2020 14:42
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aphid_licker posted:Something that fucks me up is how it's apparently common practice to experimentally drop off your feverish kid at the Kita and see if they call you to take it back. Even pre-roni I'd pepperspray a motherfucker who knowingly exposed me to something that gives you a fever just so they're rid of it for the day. To be fair, small children get fever all the time, and if you isolated them every time they got the sniffles you might as well start homeschooling straight away. Small children are like old people in that whatever weak-rear end germs they've got going on are unlikely to hurt a healthy adult. But yeah, child care facilities are disease breeding grounds. And sticking to the old "just send them in and let God sort them out" method during covid is probably not a good idea. The state of child care and the overall structure of human life under  is pretty depressing to me, but we probably can't fix it in the span of a few months, so the people saying "how sad that people want to warehouse children" and the ones saying "this is actually necessary" are both right.
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Aug 8, 2020 14:59
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aphid_licker posted:Something that fucks me up is how it's apparently common practice to experimentally drop off your feverish kid at the Kita and see if they call you to take it back. Even pre-roni I'd pepperspray a motherfucker who knowingly exposed me to something that gives you a fever just so they're rid of it for the day. It's the same logic as driving after having one beer too many - one hopes for the best and rationalizes (he is not that sick; it is not actual fever, just 37.9 deg; etc.). Nobody likes making a sacrifice over something that could be an issue, but could also be nothing. People are optimistic whenever it fits them. Pro-tip: on top of being inconsiderate towards others, it never works. If you have doubts whether the kid could be sick and bring it anyway to the kita, one gets a call within one hour telling you to pick it up. Edit: also what pidan said, kids are sniffling and coughing all the time. I think that at least in one Bundestaat they indicated that kids with Schnüpfen are allowed to continue going to the kita. AndreTheGiantBoned fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 15:03
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Zwille posted:Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha OK you might be right In That some do. Mine doesn't. Speaking of ÖPNV: anyone know how the Abstandsgebot thing works on buses and trains when there's too many people inside? Should the bus driver say "sorry, bus is full" once the distances are no longer einhaltbar? I wanted to get a bus today but it was so full I decided not to take it, but others got in, so I guess it's Eigenverantwortung or something?
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Aug 8, 2020 15:05
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Lord Stimperor posted:Do 4-year olds go in a bus or what do you mean? Yeah kindergarten groups use buses and subways and poo poo. Even pre-roni that would be grounds for waiting for the next one because [incoherent yelling and small humans falling over each other]
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Aug 8, 2020 15:20
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Mithaldu posted:Can you please refrain from silly attempts at character assassination? I'm happy to answer questions and be criticized, but there's no need to try and paint me as insane just because what i'm saying doesn't make sense to you. (Note: Not saying you're bad at understanding, just that i'm being too curt and not providing enough context.) Rules regarding when/how you're allowed to bring yor child are definitely stricter and at least in Sachsen your child has to have been healthy for the last 48 hours before you're allowed to send them, so that may be indeed a factor. Can't comment much on the other stuff but the bolded part seems to be extremely untrue. Just taking care of 1 toddler is already often hard, nevermind taking care of 15 at the same time. This isn't aimed at you specifically, but I think people in general underestimate how much pedagogical work Kitabetreuer*innen do. I had a Entwicklungsgespräch with my sons Kindergärtnerin before the 'roni hit, and it was really impressive how much time she spent to prepare for this, I think she prepared a whole binder full of documentation including a multiple-page (and totally accurate) essay on his character and his development etc. Now imagine doing that for 10 kids or so every year. I'd really wish that this crisis results in Kitabetreuer*innen and people working in education in general getting better Arbeitsbedingungen, but somehow I doubt that will happen.
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Aug 8, 2020 15:26
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Fair enough. What i was thinking was more along the lines of: A teacher can spend the entire unterricht just writing on the board without ever looking at a single child if they choose to. From what i remember from kindergarten that was not the case there. Maybe that makes more sense. Also thanks for the additional perspectives. 
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Aug 8, 2020 15:44
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Mithaldu posted:A teacher can spend the entire unterricht just writing on the board without ever looking at a single child if they choose to. lol this is not how teaching works in 2020 op.
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Aug 8, 2020 15:52
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niethan posted:OK you might be right In That some do. Mine doesn't. It's Eigenverantwortung. Around here, they also did some vague hand-waving along the lines of "more trains", but lol they don't have spare trains lying around. The funnest thing is getting on a train that's fine, and then it overcrowds (because 1000 perfect idiots want to avoid having to walk 300 meters)
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Aug 8, 2020 15:53
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Smirr posted:It's Eigenverantwortung. Around here, they also did some vague hand-waving along the lines of "more trains", but lol they don't have spare trains lying around. I can report that there is absolutely no distancing in Berlin's public transport when it gets busy, whether its u Bahn, S Bahn or Bus.
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Aug 8, 2020 15:57
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https://twitter.com/alf_frommer/status/1292036374925914112?s=21 I mean it’s extremely low hanging fruits but drat if they ain’t sweet Attilas Latte (small) Xaviers Tränen (large)
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Aug 8, 2020 16:49
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