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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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MonsieurChoc posted:Pro-Biden people need to grow up and realize we are not living in a Saturday Morning Cartoon. Trump is not Lex Luthor. Biden is not your friend. By any metric that matters, the 2020 election IS ALREADY LOST. You are going to get completely hosed over on Healthcare, Climate Change and Racial Justice for the next four years no matter who wins. It will be, at best, a 1% difference. I think these types of posts are not very helpful because a presidency that might result in a 1% difference for you might result in a 50% difference for someone else. At the end of the day it completely depends on how directly and deeply you are affected by the policies of an administration. I know several DACA recipients who will take a very deep sigh of relief if Biden is elected, for example. So it is presumptions to make blanket assertions regarding "overall impact" or some other unmeasurable metric.
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Aug 11, 2020 04:42
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enraged_camel posted:He didn't say he would kill it off, though? In the snippet I posted, he very clearly avoids saying he would veto M4A — he just says he wouldn't automatically sign it, then proceeds to speak in terms of principles such as whether M4A would and what it would cost (like I said, I don't like the latter part, but he is no Bernie so it can't be helped). the way politifact manipulates the truth by rating things as "half-true" is such unbelievable garbage. Biden hemming and hawing is actually, a pretty clear answer that "yes, I will veto the bill, but I can't yet say that yet with Bernie voters in the mix" to anyone with the smallest critical ear or understanding of human behavior, but the centrist wording of "half-true" muddies the waters really effectively. enraged_camel posted:I think these types of posts are not very helpful because a presidency that might result in a 1% difference for you might result in a 50% difference for someone else. At the end of the day it completely depends on how directly and deeply you are affected by the policies of an administration. I know several DACA recipients who will take a very deep sigh of relief if Biden is elected, for example. So it is presumptions to make blanket assertions regarding "overall impact" or some other unmeasurable metric. the cruelty of minimal effort. a bandaid fix that will thankfully, give them some breathing room, only for the screws to tighten on them later on because Biden enabled the DACA program to continue painting targets on their back, rather then just make them citizens edit: honestly, assuming Biden does win, he should be impeached if "blanket amnesty" and "permanently deactivate ICE" isn't his first loving executive order. those are giant looming axes. Famethrowa fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 04:44
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enraged_camel posted:I think these types of posts are not very helpful because a presidency that might result in a 1% difference for you might result in a 50% difference for someone else. At the end of the day it completely depends on how directly and deeply you are affected by the policies of an administration. I know several DACA recipients who will take a very deep sigh of relief if Biden is elected, for example. So it is presumptions to make blanket assertions regarding "overall impact" or some other unmeasurable metric. These DACA recipient will mtake a deep sigh of relief and then still get thrown into a concentration camp by the Gestapo you dumb rear end in a top hat. THAT'S THE POINT! BIDEN SET UP THE CAMPS AND TOLD IMMIGRANT RIGHTS ACTIVISTS TO EAT poo poo! ON LIVE TV! WAKE THE gently caress UP! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 11, 2020 04:45
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Because it was discussed earlier, in case people didn't know, the DNC just announced AOC will be speaking at the convention. https://www.axios.com/aoc-democrats-convention-speech-deb9a1c6-955a-43af-9637-c99bc2b07f2b.html
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Aug 11, 2020 05:29
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MonsieurChoc posted:These DACA recipient will mtake a deep sigh of relief and then still get thrown into a concentration camp by the Gestapo you dumb rear end in a top hat. THAT'S THE POINT! Every part of this is wrong, except the part where you got probated for it. I can imagine few sentiments that would produce eye rolls at minimum, if not outright anger, from DACA recipients as suggesting “nothing will be different whether Biden or Trump is President”, given that, practically speaking, they have already been through both and can directly compare. LegendaryFrog fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 05:29
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LegendaryFrog posted:Every part of this is wrong, except the part where you got probated for it. Thankfully we got local and state level people and the chance congress will act but that's different from saying they're off base. Rockit fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 05:38
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LegendaryFrog posted:Every part of this is wrong, except the part where you got probated for it. Many DACA recipients remember Biden and the Deporter in Chief and many had family members victimized under the Obama regime. I wouldn't be so arrogant as to claim to know their full feelings. Don't be surprised if many recognize the "nation of immigrants" rhetoric as being all talk on the Democrats side and don't vote this election. Epicurius posted:Because it was discussed earlier, in case people didn't know, the DNC just announced AOC will be speaking at the convention. hopefully she is canny enough to recognize what is happening to her fellow progressives. Famethrowa fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 05:47
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Famethrowa posted:Many DACA recipients remember Biden and the Deporter in Chief and many had family members victimized under the Obama regime. I wouldn't be so arrogant as to claim to know their full feelings. It's impressive how invincible the Trump=Biden narrative is when faced with scenarios where its baldly and undeniably wrong. I'm sure Dreamers will thank you for your principled Green Party vote when Trump finally appoints enough judges to override the courts blocking his numerous attempts to screw over DACA. MonsieurChoc posted:
I don't...what? Their expertise turned out to be phony? You don't just graduate from college and become Secretary of the Treasury. Obama's Cabinet had long experience in government. Meanwhile Trump's go to is.. Jared Kushner. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 06:00
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:It's impressively how invincible the Trump=Biden narrative is when faced with scenarios where its baldly and undeniably wrong. People from a dead gay aren't going to responsible for the actions of who ever wins. Calm down His conduct regrading BLM shows he's ineffectual at best over ICE's abuses. I'm trying to be more optimistic but i can't find in my heart to find a initial difference given that. Only how other people in congress may respond and state level poo poo. It's makes sense that "My family was victimized but not me personally" may not feel like enough of a difference to some people. Acting offend at people disagreeing with you on that just isn't an rebuttal. Both famethorwa and LF are probably right on the DACA people in themselves for the record. Rockit fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 06:10
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since the primary keeps getting rehashed, i'd like to readdress the argument that there was no media or higher-up-agitated push against bernie sanders. I see this poo poo https://twitter.com/1Dussy/status/1245368964219355138 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UVeo5-4PVc&t=44s and this https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2019/11/26/barack-obama-2020-democrats-candidates-biden-073025 quote:Publicly, he has been clear that he won’t intervene in the primary for or against a candidate, unless he believed there was some egregious attack. “I can't even imagine with this field how bad it would have to be for him to say something,” said a close adviser. Instead, he sees his role as providing guardrails to keep the process from getting too ugly and to unite the party when the nominee is clear. There is one potential exception: Back when Sanders seemed like more of a threat than he does now, Obama said privately that if Bernie were running away with the nomination, Obama would speak up to stop him. (Asked about that, a spokesperson for Obama pointed out that Obama recently said he would support and campaign for whoever the Democratic nominee is.) and think that yes, someone most definitely was trying to subvert the democratic process through media manipulation. what it so crazy about this?
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Aug 11, 2020 06:33
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enraged_camel posted:I think these types of posts are not very helpful because a presidency that might result in a 1% difference for you might result in a 50% difference for someone else. At the end of the day it completely depends on how directly and deeply you are affected by the policies of an administration. I know several DACA recipients who will take a very deep sigh of relief if Biden is elected, for example. So it is presumptions to make blanket assertions regarding "overall impact" or some other unmeasurable metric. A good example of the kind of people that will experience a 50% difference based on who's president are the anarchists that both Biden and Trump want to lock up, when Biden proves to be remarkably more effective at it than Trump is. But those are okay people to sacrifice, because they won't vote for Biden, so they aren't
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Aug 11, 2020 06:34
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Oh, great, we're back at using immigrants as props again. I am sure that this is going to be the time people will learn and stop defending Biden on it. But to recap: joepinetree posted:And it was so symbolic that here's the data: The Obama administration made Secure Communities mandatory nationwide, empowering ICE to detain people. The Obama administration set up child detention centers. When the courts said that the Obama administration could only detain adults indefinitely, not children, the Obama administration would make children as young as 3 represent themselves in immigration court and expedite their deportation. In that sense, the difference between Obama and Trump is that Obama would prevent access to council so that children could be deported back really quickly, and Trump instead separates them. It is not at all obvious that one is more humane than the other. And if you really care about what Dreamers have to say: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/the-deportation-machine-obama-built-for-president-trump/ https://time.com/5787277/joe-biden-protesters-debate-nevada/
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Aug 11, 2020 07:10
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MonsieurChoc posted:Pro-Biden people need to grow up and realize we are not living in a Saturday Morning Cartoon. Trump is not Lex Luthor. Biden is not your friend. By any metric that matters, the 2020 election IS ALREADY LOST. You are going to get completely hosed over on Healthcare, Climate Change and Racial Justice for the next four years no matter who wins. It will be, at best, a 1% difference. To be fair, I'm pretty sure most of these people won't really be affected much either way. "People under the age of ~40 who get really annoyed with leftists" are probably one of the most consistently privileged groups of politically-engaged people, because the source of their sentiment (that it's inherently ridiculous to think that both political parties might be harmful forces that are more similar than they are different) is generally a trust in institutions that is only shared by the most fortunate people from their age cohort. They like to talk about how the left is a tiny minority, but I don't think they realize how loving weird it is to be a person who gets annoyed at Bernie Bros, much less a young person who does. Leftists might be a minority, but they're sure as hell less of a minority than "young weirdos who get angry at Bernie Bros." enraged_camel posted:Yeah, that makes sense. I think a public option has a chance, but not one that is actually good. The one thing I can state with absolute certainty is that a public option that is good enough to negatively impact existing health insurers will not happen. It's possible there might be a public option that is better than a subset of the worst private plans and is packaged with some sort of great boon to private insurers to offset the losses, but a public option that is actually a reasonable solution to providing universal healthcare won't happen. UCS Hellmaker posted:thats because the thread is nothing more then dem sucks mark 4, and to talk about trump takes away from the facct that everyone here wants to bitch about the democratic party and how they ruined bernies chance to show black voters that he really did care about them. You can literally look at nearly every mainstream media source and see opinions you agree with echoed constantly. You can also look in other threads in this very sub-forum, or countless other internet discussion forums where views like yours dominate. You should ask yourself why it bothers you so much that some people in this one thread in the D&D SomethingAwful subforum express these opinions. Maybe there's a reason why you don't feel comfortable directly contesting the things people are saying and instead feel the need to fall back on your gut feeling that there's something ridiculous about it?
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Aug 11, 2020 07:51
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Biden voters are either in anger or bargaining and they need to admit that America is a subhuman devil nation, that it was never good, that it is a weight around humanity's neck, and it must die.
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Aug 11, 2020 09:45
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:It's impressive how invincible the Trump=Biden narrative is when faced with scenarios where its baldly and undeniably wrong. Libs: "Don't blame me, I voted for one of the guys who helped enable children in cages in the first place! You're welcome, Dreamers  "
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Aug 11, 2020 12:53
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Pete Buttigieg in blackface and a wig
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Aug 11, 2020 12:55
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Ruzihm posted:I'm looking forward to the debates personally
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Aug 11, 2020 13:34
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i feel like the difference in policy between the two presidencies comes down to biden doing what his donors want vs trump doing what trump wants. so is what trump wants worse than what biden's donors want?
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Aug 11, 2020 13:41
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Rainbow Knight posted:i feel like the difference in policy between the two presidencies comes down to biden doing what his donors want vs trump doing what trump wants. so is what trump wants worse than what biden's donors want? The biggest difference between the two would be that Biden's people would still know how to use their dogwhistles correctly and would at least pretend that they aren't just lining their pockets and grifting for their failchildren. Trump's people don't bother with the pretense. They're very much in the "Yeah, what're you gonna do about it?" mindset.
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Aug 11, 2020 13:49
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One factor that cannot be ignored is that when dems are either not good or fail when faced with a historical moment they are not capable of matching, they tend to be replaced with truely monstrous repubs. Carter's neolib shite to Reagan, Clinton's.... everything... followed by Bush II, and of course Trump. I have no faith that Biden will either be good or sufficient for the current historical moment. And consider - what rough repub beasts are slouching toward Bethlehem?
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Aug 11, 2020 13:54
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StratGoatCom posted:One factor that cannot be ignored is that when dems are either not good or fail when faced with a historical moment they are not capable of matching, they tend to be replaced with truely monstrous repubs. Carter's neolib shite to Reagan, Clinton's.... everything... followed by Bush II, and of course Trump. Serious answer, nobody else has Trump's shameless, mindless knack for eroding institutions, and therefore pretty much anyone would be an improvement right now.
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Aug 11, 2020 14:05
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Trump may have a knack there, but he's also incredibly loving stupid. I reckon there's at least one monster, though we may not know their name who is both somewhat brighter and taken notes.
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Aug 11, 2020 14:09
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StratGoatCom posted:One factor that cannot be ignored is that when dems are either not good or fail when faced with a historical moment they are not capable of matching, they tend to be replaced with truely monstrous repubs. Carter's neolib shite to Reagan, Clinton's.... everything... followed by Bush II, and of course Trump. Tucker Carlson
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Aug 11, 2020 14:10
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I have money on either Cotton or Dark Horse Unknown Monster, myself.
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Aug 11, 2020 14:16
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I don't...what? Their expertise turned out to be phony? You don't just graduate from college and become Secretary of the Treasury. Obama's Cabinet had long experience in government. Meanwhile Trump's go to is.. Jared Kushner. See, that's what I'm talking about. Obama's administration turned out to be one of the most do-nothing in Americna history. Their vaunted expertise and intelligence didn't actually manifest into anything concrete: they kept making dumb and short-sighted decisions and ignoring problems just like previous administrations. They used lot of smart-sounding justifications but their expertise turned out to be... nothing. It's the same reason most economists didn't see 2008 coming and the few of did were laughed at at the time. By believing themselves to be the mos tintelligent person in the room they can convince themselves that things that are obviously untrue are true because all these other smart people also believe it. I've been looking at finding an article that explains the whole phenomenon better than me. I don know Thomas Frank covers it well enough in Listen, Liberal.
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Aug 11, 2020 14:23
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I'm sure Dreamers will thank you for your principled Green Party vote when Trump finally appoints enough judges to override the courts blocking his numerous attempts to screw over DACA. As a thought experiment how many judges and appointees have been put in place over the timeline of Trump's administration?
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Aug 11, 2020 14:24
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Asema posted:As a thought experiment how many judges and appointees have been put in place over the timeline of Trump's administration? That Democrats just blankly approved.
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Aug 11, 2020 14:25
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MonsieurChoc posted:See, that's what I'm talking about. Obama's administration turned out to be one of the most do-nothing in Americna history. Their vaunted expertise and intelligence didn't actually manifest into anything concrete: they kept making dumb and short-sighted decisions and ignoring problems just like previous administrations. They used lot of smart-sounding justifications but their expertise turned out to be... nothing. It's the same reason most economists didn't see 2008 coming and the few of did were laughed at at the time. By believing themselves to be the mos tintelligent person in the room they can convince themselves that things that are obviously untrue are true because all these other smart people also believe it. yeah it turns out that having leadership experience is actually not a positive if you are Timothy loving Geithner.
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Aug 11, 2020 14:25
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MonsieurChoc posted:That Democrats just blankly approved. This is something a lot of people didn't consider about Klob, Warren, and the other sitting senators/house members. Almost all of them have instances during the Trump admin where they just gave him a blank check or signed off on something for decorum's sake or because they were afraid to take a stand. Approving a judge or rubber stamping a military budget or whatever other policy, which seriously undercuts their argument that he's some singular threat that has to be stopped at all costs. Actually one of the few advantages for Biden is that he wasn't having to make votes or forward actual policy, so we didn't get any votes on Trump judges or a hypothetical Biden-Trump Balanced Budget Act of 2017. Joe can just pretend that he wholesale opposes Trump's agenda, while he gets to assure donors that they'll never have to face the sort of tax burdens they did under Obama. All of his actual policy work is so far back he gets to pretend he's a blank slate; think of how many times someone has criticized Biden and someone else jumps in with "that was over a decade ago, have anything more recent?" And you can't have anything more recent because the man hasn't actually done anything in over 12 years. MonsieurChoc posted:See, that's what I'm talking about. Obama's administration turned out to be one of the most do-nothing in Americna history. Their vaunted expertise and intelligence didn't actually manifest into anything concrete: they kept making dumb and short-sighted decisions and ignoring problems just like previous administrations. They used lot of smart-sounding justifications but their expertise turned out to be... nothing. It's the same reason most economists didn't see 2008 coming and the few of did were laughed at at the time. By believing themselves to be the mos tintelligent person in the room they can convince themselves that things that are obviously untrue are true because all these other smart people also believe it. Yup, the disparate federal agencies will no doubt be more effectively run under a Dem admin, but they'll be run by people like Susan Rice and Larry Summers, or people like them, which means they won't be acting to help the people or forward any sort of positive agenda. It'll just be another four to eight years of, at best, treading water while the republic slowly crumbles. They'll all get a lot richer, though! Sure, Flint still won't have drinkable water and your parents will lose their home in the next market crash (if they didn't lose it in the last one), but hey, the banks will remain solvent and think of how much you'll save with those tax credits on qualified investments.
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Aug 11, 2020 15:19
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MonsieurChoc posted:See, that's what I'm talking about. Obama's administration turned out to be one of the most do-nothing in Americna history. Their vaunted expertise and intelligence didn't actually manifest into anything concrete: they kept making dumb and short-sighted decisions and ignoring problems just like previous administrations. They used lot of smart-sounding justifications but their expertise turned out to be... nothing. It's the same reason most economists didn't see 2008 coming and the few of did were laughed at at the time. By believing themselves to be the mos tintelligent person in the room they can convince themselves that things that are obviously untrue are true because all these other smart people also believe it. I've observed this to be true in the two political podcasts I listen to. Andrew on Opening Arguments is super smart, and Chapo are a bunch of dummies. And so Chapo's predictions are way, way better. They actually look at what is going on rather than convince themselves that these new facts actually fit nicely into their preconceived notions.
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Aug 11, 2020 15:31
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Jimbozig posted:I've observed this to be true in the two political podcasts I listen to. Andrew on Opening Arguments is super smart, and Chapo are a bunch of dummies. And so Chapo's predictions are way, way better. They actually look at what is going on rather than convince themselves that these new facts actually fit nicely into their preconceived notions. The thing about being intelligent is that you can be better at fooling people. The catch is, that includes oneself.
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Aug 11, 2020 15:38
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:It's impressive how invincible the Trump=Biden narrative is when faced with scenarios where its baldly and undeniably wrong. Quit using DREAMERs as props and/or treating them as children unable to have complex thoughts. Thanks.
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Aug 11, 2020 16:14
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They bring out the dreamers as props like clockwork. And at this point I am pretty sure that the people who did it have read the million posts showing why that is wrong. Dreamers themselves have protested Biden, Pelosi and Schumer, so the idea that we shouldnt criticize these politicians because of them is laughable. But the people who bring them out as propos will go silent for about a week or so on the issue, and then in 10 days will do another round of "you think Biden is bad? you must not care about the dreamers then, huh?"
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Aug 11, 2020 16:19
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The Artificial Kid posted:The rough beast is in office already, the blood-dimmed tide is loosed. This kind of take on Trump always bothers me because if our institutions weren’t already thoroughly eroded, he could have never taken advantage of them so readily and probably couldn’t have taken office in the first place. He mainly just hired a crew to kick in the rotted walls and harvest the copper wiring
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Aug 11, 2020 16:22
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misadventurous posted:This kind of take on Trump always bothers me because if our institutions weren’t already thoroughly eroded, he could have never taken advantage of them so readily and probably couldn’t have taken office in the first place. He mainly just hired a crew to kick in the rotted walls and harvest the copper wiring He has a certain innate grasp of exactly where to kick, but overall, yeah. Imagine what will happen when the wall kicker isn't a loving syphilitic imbecile, and that is the major threat of a Biden admin - that we'll be back here in 4 years, 8 if we're unreasonably lucky, with the rot even worse set in and someone out and ready to finish what he saw Trump as starting.
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Aug 11, 2020 16:27
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joepinetree posted:They bring out the dreamers as props like clockwork. And at this point I am pretty sure that the people who did it have read the million posts showing why that is wrong. I try to not get too heated online, but knowing the painful internal struggle of a few people with regards to this election and immigration, this blase presumption is so infuriating. I don't presume to know thousands of people's thoughts based on anecdotes, and neither should anyone else. edit: The one assumption I will make: DREAMers and DACA recipients have far more first-hand experience with the Kafka horrors of the immigration system under every president since Clinton then pretty much any armchair political analyst in this thread. Fitting them in a neat pigeonhole is offensive for this very reason. Famethrowa fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 16:28
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enraged_camel posted:Sorry, not disagreeing with 3 or 4 but can you post evidence that shows Joe Biden has "advanced dementia"? We did this just last week, you can scroll back if you want.
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Aug 11, 2020 16:29
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Biden answered questions from a reporter while wearing a mask on a bike. I would pay very good money to watch trump try 2 of those 3 things at once.
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Aug 11, 2020 16:31
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enraged_camel posted:I think these types of posts are not very helpful because a presidency that might result in a 1% difference for you might result in a 50% difference for someone else. At the end of the day it completely depends on how directly and deeply you are affected by the policies of an administration. I know several DACA recipients who will take a very deep sigh of relief if Biden is elected, for example. So it is presumptions to make blanket assertions regarding "overall impact" or some other unmeasurable metric. what about the person like myself that lives on SSDI that biden has tried to cut multiple times....what percentage would that be?
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Aug 11, 2020 16:36
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ManBoyChef posted:what about the person like myself that lives on SSDI that biden has tried to cut multiple times....what percentage would that be? At least Trump might gently caress up that, for this guy I wager his best chance under Biden might be a totally obstructionist repub lower chambers.
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Aug 11, 2020 16:38
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