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This loving sucks
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Aug 19, 2020 19:27
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Yeah, it's not like everything was great before, and I'm feeling really strung out right now.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:39
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In a strange way, this is actually reassuring to me. A reminder than even with covid, life goes on, seasons come and go. After rain comes sun, after sun comes smoke.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:57
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:This loving sucks New thread name
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Aug 19, 2020 20:08
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Kenning posted:Yeah, it's not like everything was great before, and I'm feeling really strung out right now. This whole year it seems like we're just going from catastrophe to catastrophe, poo poo just keeps piling on and everyone is expected to continue working and playing the capitalist game like everything is hunky dory. What's worse, with the pandemic and our cities becoming engulfed in smoke we're given every reason to isolate ourselves. In times of crisis, solidarity in a community is very important but the catastrophes we face now make that solidarity very hard to accomplish. It's almost like we're all being slowly strangled to death inside our homes.
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Aug 19, 2020 20:15
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Kenning posted:East Texas is absolutely the south. West Texas and the Panhandle are the Southwest. South Texas is Mexico. East texas/panhandle florida yes, the rest of their respective states no
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Aug 19, 2020 20:26
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Looks like they're starting to get some control over the fires in the east East bay
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Aug 19, 2020 20:36
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Texas being so South that it gets mad when people lump it's Confederate rear end in with clearly proven geography is the most Southern thing about it.
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Aug 19, 2020 20:42
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Kinda early for 12,000 acre fires too eh? Usually see fires in late octish. I know it's a lighting fire but it isn't a good tell for how the rest of the year goes I've said this before but mentally I've changed significantly due to the fires. Almost a quick onset of depression every time the fires starts. Like every time this happens I relive seeing my house go up in flames as I drive off with literally the animals my wife and a small bag. I hope none of you have to experience that. But it's just so hosed. Seriously. Pack a bag or two, get a safe deposit box, don't leave your house with nothing but clothes in your back because it will just make the bleeding worse for those few weeks. At least you won't be in a 35 person line trying to buy masks this time. Oh and surgical masks do NOT and are NOT EFFECTIVE AGAINST FIRE PARTICULATES!!!!!! You need an N95+. Wear it until the orange hue goes away completely. Ya ya I know Covid but the cloth masks are not gonna protect you from cancer. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 20:53
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I'm sorry to hear about how this is affecting you emotionally my dude, that sounds really rough. I've been teetering on the edge of an anxiety spiral all morning. I've got one friend whose mom probably lost her house in Vacaville, and another one whose dad's place north of Santa Cruz was evacuated last night. Feels pretty bad rn.
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Aug 19, 2020 21:05
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It's important to understand that this is Not Normal. Yes, California's wildlands are fire-adapted. But, they're adapted to low-intensity fires that leave the crowns of trees alive while thinning out underbrush. What we are seeing annually now is the combination of a century or more of forestry management that first didn't understand, and then didn't take account of, the need for low-intensity burns; the migration and settlement of people within natural-burn areas which fed into that inability or unwillingness to manage forestlands with managed burns as well as placing millions of people's homes into high-risk environments; and the rapidly intesifying consequences of manmade global climate change. When we become acclimated to this "new normal" and start treating it as just what we expect every year, we can become complacent and passive about the dire need for reform. We need to change how we live in and near our state's dwindling natural areas, we need to change how we fund and manage those natural areas, and we need to stop using fossil fuels; and we need to do all of those things quickly because the damage being done by our annual wildfires is incalculable and often permanent, in addition to being tragic for the people directly affected.
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Aug 19, 2020 21:26
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aw man, our slave labor is too sick with the plague to fight our fires
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Aug 19, 2020 21:31
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I really thought it would be an earthquake that did California in, not the state burning to the ground. We deserve this.
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Aug 19, 2020 21:39
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Cup Runneth Over posted:We deserve this. The official slogan of 2020!
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Aug 19, 2020 21:41
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I'm in absolute hell.
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Aug 19, 2020 21:43
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If only we had thousands of unemployed people we could pay good wages instead of giving prisoners slave wages.
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Aug 19, 2020 21:45
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Not even a single self-aware sentence in the article about hmm maybe this is our fault for relying on defacto slave labor to fight fires and also not taking care of the health of that slave labor during a massive disease outbreak. Just straight "oh woe is us!"
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Aug 19, 2020 21:45
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"Stationed at minimum security fire camps in 27 counties." loving lmao. That's it. Pull the plug. Turn the drat simulation off. Nobody is gonna believe this poo poo any longer.
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Aug 19, 2020 21:55
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Also, ex-convicts with experience fighting wildfires are generally banned from firefighting jobs after release because of their criminal records 
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Aug 19, 2020 22:17
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The really hosed thing about the fire camps is that the prisoners do come out legitimately as very well trained and experienced wild-land firefighters, but they’ll never be able to get a job as a firefighter or EMT because of their records. Getting into and staying in the fire camps is competitive and requires ongoing good behavior, so these aren’t especially dangerous criminals, California badly needs more rural firefighters, and it’s a good paying job doing something socially useful that they’re totally qualified for. There’s this perfect opportunity to fill a need for the state and help these people reintegrate into society, but we just loving throw it all away. Efb
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Aug 19, 2020 22:24
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Sydin posted:Not even a single self-aware sentence in the article about hmm maybe this is our fault for relying on defacto slave labor to fight fires and also not taking care of the health of that slave labor during a massive disease outbreak. Just straight "oh woe is us!" I'd say it's "literal" slave labor rather than "defacto"
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Aug 19, 2020 22:31
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Jaxyon posted:I'd say it's "literal" slave labor rather than "defacto" people seem to forget that the 13th amendment literally considers prisoners to be slaves
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Aug 19, 2020 22:32
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Foxfire_ posted:Also, ex-convicts with experience fighting wildfires are generally banned from firefighting jobs after release because of their criminal records lol somebody call Crassus, our slave firefighting force all caught the plague. This stuff honestly infuriates me. Simple leftist reforms like “let the slave labor work as firefighters after release” or “hire and train more firefighters” would be easy, humane, and save lives. instead there’s evacuation zones a mile away from my house, while I get told to vote for Kamala, who argued before the Supreme Court that overcrowded California prisons are actually Cool and Good. 
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Aug 19, 2020 22:33
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Leperflesh posted:When we become acclimated to this "new normal" and start treating it as just what we expect every year, we can become complacent and passive about the dire need for reform. We need to change how we live in and near our state's dwindling natural areas, we need to change how we fund and manage those natural areas, and we need to stop using fossil fuels; and we need to do all of those things quickly because the damage being done by our annual wildfires is incalculable and often permanent, in addition to being tragic for the people directly affected. But it is the "new normal", even if we were to do all the things you mention, put a stop to late capitalism and start slowing down climate change, it has so much momentum already that it's going to get worse before it stabilises. We should absolutely be pushing for reform, but we should also be hunkering down and getting used to smoke seasons, rolling blackouts and even pandemics because that is our lot in the future. The only difference is that now that all of this poo poo is at our gate, we actually have something to point to when trying to convince deniers that we need to do something about it. Of course, that doesn't mean much considering the political landscape is crippled by conspiracy nuts and the people who keep electing deniers would happily watch California burn, but eh.
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Aug 19, 2020 22:38
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Fly Molo posted:lol somebody call Crassus, our slave firefighting force all caught the plague. this is the unfortunate truth of Western society we big giant jails to literally lock people in there they're in break their minds of what makes them men and women. we want people to come out of jails and be subservient to society because they made a mistake regardless of the mistake we still treat people inhumanely and it's horrific
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Aug 19, 2020 22:44
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Well, poo poo is gonna burn regardless, but we could hugely reduce the actual impact of wildfires on humans by allowing more housing to be built in the temperate areas near the coasts which are at substantially less fire risk then the sprawling inland developments that people have been pushed into. Unfortunately, we have decided to sacrifice this option at the altar of the noble cause of not ruining the ocean views of rich people in La Jolla with apartments and preserving Orinda property values.
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Aug 19, 2020 22:47
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Still Dismal posted:Well, poo poo is gonna burn regardless, but we could hugely reduce the actual impact of wildfires on humans by allowing more housing to be built in the temperate areas near the coasts which are at substantially less fire risk then the sprawling inland developments that people have been pushed into. Unfortunately, we have decided to sacrifice this option at the altar of the noble cause of not ruining the ocean views of rich people in La Jolla with apartments and preserving Orinda property values. but the beaches? (USER WAS EXECUTED FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 19, 2020 23:02
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Still Dismal posted:Well, poo poo is gonna burn regardless, but we could hugely reduce the actual impact of wildfires on humans by allowing more housing to be built in the temperate areas near the coasts which are at substantially less fire risk then the sprawling inland developments that people have been pushed into. Unfortunately, we have decided to sacrifice this option at the altar of the noble cause of not ruining the ocean views of rich people in La Jolla with apartments and preserving Orinda property values. Point Reyes is currently on fire and Malibu was on fire 2 years ago
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Aug 19, 2020 23:02
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The Glumslinger posted:Malibu was on fire 2 years ago
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Aug 19, 2020 23:05
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The Glumslinger posted:Point Reyes is currently on fire and Malibu was on fire 2 years ago
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Aug 19, 2020 23:07
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Reminder that we used to have people super regularly arson our forests and that has gone way down but climate change means we're hosed.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:08
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:this is the unfortunate truth of
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Aug 19, 2020 23:12
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The Glumslinger posted:Point Reyes is currently on fire and Malibu was on fire 2 years ago “More temperate areas near the coast generally have less fire risk because they burn less often” does not mean “none of them ever burn”. Although if you wanna get really into the details it’s more wildlife urban interface than temperature that matters as I understand it. But the upshot is the same, you can reduce fire risk by making it more affordable to live in denser urban areas, rather than sprawling outlying suburbs. Jaxyon posted:Reminder that we used to have people super regularly arson our forests and that has gone way down but climate change means we're hosed. I didn't know this was a thing, unless you're talking about the CHUD terrorist from like a year ago who set fires here on purpose. Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 23:19
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Fly Molo posted:lol somebody call Crassus, our slave firefighting force all caught the plague. What would it take to do this with a proposition?
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Aug 19, 2020 23:22
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Ardeem posted:What would it take to do this with a proposition? Doctors and nurses are in a similar boat - we're always massively short of qualified doctors and nurses, but medical schooling and licensing is controlled by the AMA, who wants to keep its existing members happy by limiting supply and keeping wages high, rather than let a ton of people get good jobs that pay a living wage (and actually provide a service that we're in dire need of) instead of six- and seven-figure jobs for a few elites.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:50
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Sydin posted:Not even a single self-aware sentence in the article about hmm maybe this is our fault for relying on defacto slave labor to fight fires and also not taking care of the health of that slave labor during a massive disease outbreak. Just straight "oh woe is us!" oh you didn't get the video ad for the firefighting robot? (kidding, but now you're all imagining it)
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Aug 19, 2020 23:57
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The coastal vs. inland thing is a red herring: it's more urban vs. rural. Most of us, and I really think that includes me but maybe not a lot of posters in this thread but definitely most americans, are absolutely not prepared to abandon the idea of a suburban or rural home as a viable life goal or reward for achieving some level of middle-class wealth. By that I am talking about developments in the suburban/forest margins where we carve half acre lots into the hilly treed areas and let people build houses in them, and also the suburban fringe areas where we build developments right on the verge of forested areas. In both cases, we create an obligation to fire crews to try to save human structures as a priority, and we create severe obstacles to performing regular (say, biannual or so) controlled winter burns in those areas, especially the former ones. Irrespective of the severe droughts being wrought by climate change, we could radically alter the landscape of our developments, concentrate our populations into actual cities rather than the sprawling suburbs we currently call "cities", and simply not allow ourselves to have that cabin-in-the-woods lifestyle. But "could" is doing a lot of work there. Like, China can just wholesale shift populations around, by virtue of being an oppressive totalitarian monoparty state that doesn't give a gently caress about how much that hurts people, but yeah it could just say "nobody gets to live in this forest any more" and actually make that happen within a decade. Here it's not currently possible politically or socially or legally. This really sucks though. I want that lifestyle, kinda; the house set into the woodland, with a good chunk of land, not being bothered by neighbors, plenty of space and good air and no suburban ugliness... and I also think it's kinda gross for us city folk to tell them country-living folk they're not allowed to have their lifestyle any more. So... yeah it's a tough problem from a fairness/justice perspective even though the solutions are pretty obvious from a purely risk-management/ecological preservation perspective. It's sorta like how new orleans probably shouldn't exist as a below-sea-level coastal city that is definitely doomed by sea level rise and definitely going to require repeated expensive disaster responses during the coming century: but what are you gonna do, evict all the people of new orleans? Forced migration of a culture? Whole lot of poor people definitely getting hosed over if you somehow did that, yeah? Our entire country has spent several centuries willfully ignoring the evidence right in front of our faces that we're building our homes in really loving stupid places in ways that basically guarantees periodic wholesale destruction of homes, and we're going to keep paying for it over and over and over. Climate change is making it worse, but it's been a problem for a really long time. I'm sorry, this post doesn't offer any good solutions, and it's depressing.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:58
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Still Dismal posted:I didn't know this was a thing, unless you're talking about the CHUD terrorist from like a year ago who set fires here on purpose. https://laist.com/2018/07/31/why_would_somebody_start_a_wildfire.php People were setting a lot of fires in the 70s
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Aug 19, 2020 23:59
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The policy solution to sprawling development isn’t some impossible Gordian knot imo.We massively subsidize suburbs in a variety of ways. You don’t need to herd people into cities at gunpoint, just stop subsidizing those kinds of development, and start subsidizing more sustainable forms of residential construction. You wanna live in a sprawling McMansion in a semi-rural area? Fine, but you’re going to pay what it actually costs in terms of road upkeep, water for your giant lawn, additional fire service for your property, etc, plus actual property taxes. I am not at all a libertarian free market evangelist, but forcing suburb dwellers to internalize the social costs that their lifestyle imposes on the rest of us would go a long way. Meanwhile redirect all the public funds that would have been going to subsidizing freeways and such into dense affordable and low income housing, public transit, and urban infrastructure and public services. And I’m not talking a landscape of judge dredd megablocks, just low slung three story apartments or bungalow courts in areas that are technically already cities would make a massive difference. Now I said this wasn’t necessarily complicated, that doesn’t mean it would be easy, it would be politically incredibly difficult. The suburban property owners who massively benefit from these subsidies are who vote, who show up to local government meetings, who donate to campaigns, and who run for office at the local and state levels. Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 01:06
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slicing up eyeballs posted:what the gently caress
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Aug 20, 2020 01:06
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