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it's almost as if writing legislation is hard and not something people can trivially do in a message board also as if the authors of AB5 actually had an opportunity to listen to the people they were about to gently caress over, and declined https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/hundreds-of-freelancers-at-repeal-ab5-rally-want-back-the-right-to-earn-a-living-in-ca/ quote:Throughout the committee process for AB 5, Gonzalez was warned of the far-reaching implications should it become law. Editorial boards throughout the state, including the Orange County Register, San Diego Union-Tribune, Sacramento Bee, and San Jose Mercury News said AB 5 would endanger the newspaper industry.
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Aug 22, 2020 01:15
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Welcome to the Accelerationist Party, California!
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Aug 22, 2020 01:22
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Like, it's almost impossible to read the details of this law and not realize how compromised it is. https://www.businessinsider.com/california-labor-jobs-law-bad-confusing-freelance-workers-2019-11 quote:Other professions have a "get out of AB5 free card." Doctors, insurance agents, architects, stockbrokers, and engineers, to name a few, aren't encumbered by these rules. It helped that several of these industries had powerful lobbyists demanding carve-outs while the bill was being crafted.
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Aug 22, 2020 01:22
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Has anyone braved the COVIDpocalypse lately to get their RealID card? Just got a copy of my Long Form Birth Certificate (no gold fringe) and want to get this poo poo done when I'm cruising at Quarantine weight so I can be  hm yes, 420lbs, I really got my act together thanks to meth and CrossFit"I understand you can pre-register and get a special Fastness line at the DMV or someshit?
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Aug 22, 2020 01:32
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Jaxyon posted:Like literally somebody is a freelance writer and saying "my income is hosed" and the responses aren't "that sucks how can we make it better" they're "well your company is exploitive" which is true but doesn't really give that guy an income Its because the responses are stuck thinking about how all companies are exploitive while Huego is clearly talking about how freelance writers are not being exploited any more so than a normal employee.
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Aug 22, 2020 01:37
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FilthyImp posted:Has anyone braved the COVIDpocalypse lately to get their RealID card? Just got a copy of my Long Form Birth Certificate (no gold fringe) and want to get this poo poo done when I'm cruising at Quarantine weight so I can be I'd say it kinda depends on how crowded your dmv usually is. I made an appointment and it probably didn't save me that much time, based on looking at the line for walkins. I also went in january and never received my realID so... welp
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Aug 22, 2020 01:40
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Leperflesh posted:it's almost as if writing legislation is hard and not something people can trivially do in a message board What's the point of yelling at people in a message board over it then Stunt_enby posted:guy with DSA and CSPAM gangtags insanely and epically owning a worker for being angry about having their livelihood get hosed over ah i see you're checking out my gangtags. pretty cool, huh? *flexes, making them animate*
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Aug 22, 2020 01:48
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FilthyImp posted:Has anyone braved the COVIDpocalypse lately to get their RealID card? Just got a copy of my Long Form Birth Certificate (no gold fringe) and want to get this poo poo done when I'm cruising at Quarantine weight so I can be they extended the deadline to october of next year btw
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Aug 22, 2020 01:49
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What does the freelance writers union you're all a member of have to say about this? The IWW FJU.
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Aug 22, 2020 01:57
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I cannot believe the sheer volume of bad posts in the last few hours. Of course AB5 is a bad law passed in an attempt to do the right thing. That's like the only thing California does. Do y'all remember how utterly dogshit our cannabis legalization rollout was? California is a state with a sizeable constituency of genuine progressives, so progressive legislation must occasionally be passed and signed into law. However, is also huge in the FIRE sector, and is the global headquarters of all sorts of massive, lovely industries, so that progressive legislation will often be deliberately or accidentally hamstrung as it works its way through our legislature, which is populated with a huge number of complete dipshits. It's good that AB5 is loving rideshares. It sucks that it's loving actual freelancers. Freelancing can be a cool good thing, but there fewer actual freelancers than there are people improperly classified as freelancers by predatory firms. Parsing those out might be a little complicated, and it is certainly going to be an iterative process that relies on the input of various people involved. Of course, some people will lie about what's actually going on (i.e. firms that improperly classify people as contractors). That means we'll have to hash these things out. But epic owns on people who have concerns about the way a law impacts their industry is super loving lame, and absolutely dogshit politics.
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Aug 22, 2020 01:58
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Foxfire_ posted:Native tribes don't really have any advantage. Doing a controlled burn in a safe way isn't a traditional cultural practice kind of thing, it's a modern large engineering project kind of thing. Controlled fire is not really something where you want to go with a low-bid inexperienced contractor since mistakes spiral out of control fast. Actually Native tribes are perfectly suited to do controlled burns as long as they have the money to pay for the equipment and personnel. NorCal tribes didn't burn for agriculture, they burned to shape their environment e.g create meadow space to attract grazing animals. The Yurok tribe (largest in CA and the only one to never be completely removed from their ancestral lands at any time in history) do controlled burns every year now that they've been allowed to. If you would like to know more... 'Fire is Medicine'
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Aug 22, 2020 02:01
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FilthyImp posted:Has anyone braved the COVIDpocalypse lately to get their RealID card? Just got a copy of my Long Form Birth Certificate (no gold fringe) and want to get this poo poo done when I'm cruising at Quarantine weight so I can be I pre-registered and was in and out of the Arleta DMV in less than 20min on a Tuesday. 2 hours line outside. Highley recommend
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Aug 22, 2020 02:07
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droll posted:What does the freelance writers union you're all a member of have to say about this? The IWW FJU. I'm a member of the UAW-affiliated NWU and was, before AB5, earning eligibility in WGAE. I'm also in a leadership role in a journalism advocacy group and a member of several other labor activism groups, including the DSA. Did you have a point?
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Aug 22, 2020 02:08
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Policy that is made at scale is always going to harm some innocent people in some way. It's an inevitable fact of living in governing units that scale beyond communes. The solution is not "never do anything", but to take those trade-offs seriously. I'm weakly in favor of AB5, I was a strong supporter at the outset, but I've seen and read enough about the fallout to convince me that it's real. Luckily there's kind of an entire mechanism for modifying laws without throwing out the whole thing!
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Aug 22, 2020 02:08
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Huego posted:I'm a member of the UAW-affiliated NWU and was, before AB5, earning eligibility in WGAE. I'm also in a leadership role in a journalism advocacy group and a member of several other labor activism groups, including the DSA. Did you have a point? Read my question again. As a writer you should know what a question is and know what I asked?
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Aug 22, 2020 02:16
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droll posted:Read my question again. As a writer you should know what a question is and know what I asked? lmao you can gently caress right off with that poo poo, but if bitchy schoolmarm play is your kink I know somebody you'd really hit it off with
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Aug 22, 2020 02:17
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So your union did nothing for you. You're admitting they didn't help or advise on what happened. May I suggest you look at a real union? Also grow up kiddo, I literally asked a basic question to understand if you're in a service business union or a real.union and your default response was hostility.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:19
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droll posted:So your union did nothing for you. You're admitting they didn't help or advise on what happened. May I suggest you look at a real union?
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Aug 22, 2020 02:21
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I hate business unions that do nothing for workers, and advocate for direct action unions like the IWW and their journalist unions. If you think business unions that collaborate and help the owners are good, and think im wrong to point out that they're poo poo, then YOU are the enemy of the working class not me.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:22
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A few hours ago Jaxson posted "hey, AB5 is hurting freelancers, anybody know more about that?" and I foolishly replied "yes, I know more about that," and now I've seen more goon dicks than an ageplay camgirl.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:24
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AB5 is terrible and AB5 is right. It is terrible because it is destroying industries. It is telling freelancers within those industries that there is a higher bar to being a freelancer, regardless of what and how their industry operates. Some industries will leave the entire state rather than choose to change how they do business. This is especially true of employers that are national/global/remote/out of state. This is poo poo for those who work in those industries. In some cases it will raise the cost of doing business in the state considerably and it might just not make sense anymore to have that work here. AB5 is right though. It is designed to be annoying for 1099 businesses. This is because the intent of the law is to eliminate independent contractor agreements or reduce them. California loses almost 7 billion dollars a year in payroll taxes from misclassifications and the entire structure stymies worker organizing. The screen writers guild did not oppose the bill. You know why? They are writers who have organized and see collective benefits as a result of having done so. AB5 is also right because it forces people to choose a lane, meaning it clarifies responsibilities and rights. You either are an employee (department of labor rules and rights apply) or you are a business (department of business oversight applies - if you're a regulated industry). By doing this it also makes bigger businesses become more accountable because they can't as easily shunt off all of the liability for their decisions onto small independent contractors. It does nothing for those small independent contractors themselves, which is probably the biggest failure of ab5. I think there should have been an option for facilitating 1099 unions or employee guilds something.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:30
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Yeah, see, reasonable takes are possible, and don't need to involve dunks, or calling people "kiddo", jfc.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:35
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AB5 also isn't very novel nationwide. It switched California from Common Law test for independent contractors (the IRS one) to ABC test. About half of the US already uses ABC test (or the A&C parts), it is changing California from being in the low-regulation group to the high-regulation group. The other thing it did is let cities sue to enforce employee classification instead of only the state. The '35 pieces' thing is if you are below that you revert to previous Common Law test (there are a bunch of exceptions that cause reversion). If you are above it, you use ABC test. You can still be a contractor over that limit, you just have a more stringent test to satisfy if the government alleges you are improperly classifying employees. But if you are an employer and a California/Kansas/Nebraska (all ABC test states) writer is interchangeable with a Michigan/Arizona/New York (all common law states) one, you might as well hire from the easier pool if you don't have any other reason to like the ABC state person Silly Kitty posted:Actually Native tribes are perfectly suited to do controlled burns as long as they have the money to pay for the equipment and personnel. NorCal tribes didn't burn for agriculture, they burned to shape their environment e.g create meadow space to attract grazing animals. The Yurok tribe (largest in CA and the only one to never be completely removed from their ancestral lands at any time in history) do controlled burns every year now that they've been allowed to. If you would like to know more... 'Fire is Medicine' Native tribes can certainly do good controlled burns, the justification for hiring someone like the Yurok to go do a burn in a National Park is that they're experienced and have a good track record at it, not from cultural history. You wouldn't want to hire a group that historically practiced burns, but had their land stolen 200 years ago and hasn't done a burn since to do one now in a park now.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:37
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Foxfire_ posted:AB5 also isn't very novel nationwide. It switched California from Common Law test for independent contractors (the IRS one) to ABC test. About half of the US already uses ABC test (or the A&C parts), it is changing California from being in the low-regulation group to the high-regulation group. The other thing it did is let cities sue to enforce employee classification instead of only the state. How many different times do I need to say that poo poo you imagine is not reality? On and on and on you go about "well it should be like this" and "there's no reason not to do that" and it's fuckin' fiction, man. Go write your fanfic somewhere else. Practice at it and maybe you, too, can become a writer someday.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:39
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Huego posted:How many different times do I need to say that poo poo you imagine is not reality? On and on and on you go about "well it should be like this" and "there's no reason not to do that" and it's fuckin' fiction, man. Go write your fanfic somewhere else. Practice at it and maybe you, too, can become a writer someday. I'm confused what part you think is inaccurate? How I am characterizing how AB5 changes California law? The other thing I'm saying is about how employers are reacting to it, where I am agreeing with you that they will move contractors jobs to states with lower regulation
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Aug 22, 2020 02:41
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This post overall captures my view on this pretty well.El Mero Mero posted:AB5 is terrible and AB5 is right. Yeah, this is the thing where, despite being generally pro AB5, I think there is a legitimate issue. If a business has a large potential pool of people to pick from and it doesn't matter where they are geographically, like with the freelance writers, it absolutely makes sense that they would just not contract out to Californians. I am long term not that worried about this destroying the jobs of people who were driving for Lyft, Uber, etc. Individual drivers may certainly get hosed in the meantime, but we are 20% of the US population and contain some the nation's largest cities. Companies whose business requires physically being here are going to bitch and moan about big government, but at the end of the day they will swallow the costs and comply in order to be able to operate here. Lyft and Uber will either return, or someone else will step into the gap, those jobs will return. But if you're just paying someone to write articles about video games or funko pops or whatever from their living room? Yeah, why not just pay someone in NY or Iowa to do it instead. Seems like a legitimate issue. I don't know what the solution is, because it's something that probably differs from industry to industry.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:43
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Kenning posted:Yeah, see, reasonable takes are possible, and don't need to involve dunks, or calling people "kiddo", jfc. This isn't a takes thread, it's a debate and discussion thread
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Aug 22, 2020 02:43
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Foxfire_ posted:I'm confused what part you think is inaccurate? How I am characterizing how AB5 changes California law? The other thing I'm saying is about how employers are reacting to it, where I am agreeing with you that they will move contractors jobs to states with lower regulation I, the only contract writer in this discussion, have been saying for several pages now that you cannot "still be a contractor" with AB5. The law negatively impacted me, a real human being who lives in reality with a real career and real editors and real publishers who have all had real conversations about this real thing that's happening. And this is seriously like my 10th post to you specifically repeating that you, real-life idiot Foxfire, do not create reality in the prism of your mind.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:44
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Cup Runneth Over posted:This isn't a takes thread, it's a debate and discussion thread Can we discuss how forums user droll is one L away from the Dutch word for "turd"?
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Aug 22, 2020 02:46
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Huego posted:A few hours ago Jaxson posted "hey, AB5 is hurting freelancers, anybody know more about that?" and I foolishly replied "yes, I know more about that," and now I've seen more goon dicks than an ageplay camgirl. I don't really have an opinion on AB5, but you're so unnecessarily hostile and aggressively territorial that I imagine it's hard for anyone not to poke you with sticks. I've never seen someone so infuriated that people are daring to reply to their posts on a message board.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:47
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Is... is the reason none of you know anything about the publishing industry because you literally can't read?
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Aug 22, 2020 02:48
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CPColin posted:Can we discuss how forums user droll is one L away from the Dutch word for "turd"? "He asked what our union did, what an rear end in a top hat!" I legitimately 100% want to know what their business union did, because I know what the IWW FJU did and it was very good.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:48
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CPColin posted:Can we discuss how forums user droll is one L away from the Dutch word for "turd"? I'd be interested in that discussion personally but I think the forums culture frowns on "posting about posters"
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Aug 22, 2020 02:49
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droll posted:"He asked what our union did, what an rear end in a top hat!" Yeah it's so great how the IWW blocked AB5 and none of this conversation ever happened.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:49
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Huego posted:I, the only contract writer in this discussion, have been saying for several pages now that you cannot "still be a contractor" with AB5. The law negatively impacted me, a real human being who lives in reality with a real career and real editors and real publishers who have all had real conversations about this real thing that's happening. And this is seriously like my 10th post to you specifically repeating that you, real-life idiot Foxfire, do not create reality in the prism of your mind. Ok but the point they made about ABC versus common law tests seems pretty reasonable? If other states already have similiar tests that they use that would seem to dilute a lot of the concerns that have cropped up, because at a certain point if this something you have to deal with when hiring anyone from like 15 states it's worth it to just comply rather than avoid the issue. Can you explain why this is not the case then? Not everyone ITT is the guy who called you "kiddo" (who, yeah, was in fact a snide rear end in a top hat), some of us are actually asking questions in good faith dude. Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Aug 22, 2020 |
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Aug 22, 2020 02:50
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Huego posted:Yeah it's so great how the IWW blocked AB5 and none of this conversation ever happened. What. Did. Your. Union. Do If you don't know, just say! If you're ashamed ok I get it. But at least apologize for your childish responses.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:52
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The desire to post inline goatse is almost overwhelming.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:53
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Still Dismal posted:Ok but the point they made about ABC versus common law tests seems pretty reasonable? If other states already have similiar tests that they use that would seem to dilute a lot of the concerns that have cropped up. Can you explain why this is not the case then? Not everyone ITT is the guy who called you "kiddo" (who, yeah, was in fact a snide rear end in a top hat), some of us are actually asking questions in good faith dude. Foxfire, the guy I had to tell ten times that I know how my job works better than he does, is not one of the people asking questions in good faith dude. What I keep saying, and y'all keep not hearing, is that whatever you're first-principles-thought-experiment-reverse-engineering as "reasonable" is irrelevant because the reality is a ton of Californians had good-paying, non-exploitative writing gigs up and vanish on them. "Well it shouldn't work like that." Yeah. I know. That's why I want to change the law.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:53
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droll posted:What. Did. Your. Union. Do I. Am not. Your research. Assistant. You are not doing an even half-assed job of passing yourself off as a good-faith questioner. I don't give a gently caress about whatever gotcha you're trying to contrive. Go hang out with the "community feedback on laws is fascism" guy.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:54
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Is the reason you are a freelance writer because if you ever worked in an environment with consistent coworkers they would find you completely intolerable and totally insufferable?
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Aug 22, 2020 02:55
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