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Captain Hygiene posted:I've said it before but the shrines are fatally flawed for me in that they're all disconnected, so even if there were more with actual puzzle content I'd still prefer more traditional dungeons because there's zero build or flow to the shrines by their very nature. You can get into a dungeon as it ramps up variations on its theme, but the shrines have to be way more generalized because you can (mostly) find them in any order, at any time in the game. Someone link that clip of the streamer whose last shrine was the combat tutorial one in Kakariko, where she finally learned all the advanced combat maneuvers like parrying. She had the perfect "What." expression the whole time.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:03
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Vah Naboris and Hyrule Castle are better than the majority of 3D Zelda dungeons tbqh
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Aug 24, 2020 21:06
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Augus posted:Vah Naboris and Hyrule Castle are better than the majority of 3D Zelda dungeons tbqh Lol, sorry but nah. Castle was fun but hardly a dungeon. May as well call eventide island a dungeon, and that was one of the games highlights.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:11
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nrook posted:As someone who hates all* Zelda dungeons Whenever I see an opinion like this I just wonder, like...what do you get out of the series? You're not wrong, because enjoyment is subjective, but for me the series has traditionally been focused entirely around the dungeons. It's great when we get good stuff around them, but they're 90% of why I play most of the games.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:17
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BotW2 just needs to establish Groose as a new series mainstay and I'll be ready to claim it as the uncontested best Zelda for all time.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:31
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Breath of the Wild, Majoras Mask, and Links Awakening remake are my triforce. I feel bad for leaving out the original Legend of Zelda, but Links Awakening remake is really good.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:32
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What is everyone's favourite (3d) dungeon actually? Would be interesting to gauge the opinions. Mine for....reasons is probably ancient cistern. Actually it's probably 100 percent because its a pretty looking place with a great theme, nice ambient music and the boss is cool. Biggest turd for me is snowhead. It's just fiddly and a slog to get through, looks like rear end and has terrible music. Goht is ok, but has a misleading name
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Aug 24, 2020 21:32
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Namnesor posted:BotW2 just needs to establish Groose as a new series mainstay and I'll be ready to claim it as the uncontested best Zelda for all time. There's a Groose loose aboot this hoose
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Aug 24, 2020 21:34
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the greatest boss battle is the one where you're riding the top around the inside of a circular canyon and you damage it by doing sick kickflips off its frikkin face. if you attempt to argue with me i will contrive a Saw-like scenario where i do sick kickflips off ur face (in zelda)
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Aug 24, 2020 21:35
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What if the shriveled skeleton in the trailer... is actually a dehydrated Groose 
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Aug 24, 2020 21:37
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RickRogers posted:What is everyone's favourite (3d) dungeon actually? Would be interesting to gauge the opinions. 3D dungeon is tough, for me its probably Lanaryu Mining Facility because I absolutely loved how it played with the time bubble stuff. Worst is probably the Deku one in Majora's Mask. It doesn't really do anything interesting because its the first dungeon and they already did a ton of Deku stuff elsewhere so its mostly just incredibly dark and drab. I was real sick of the whole swamp aesthetic by the time I was finished. Also Odolwa is super  It lacks any spectacle compared to the rest of the MM bosses especially.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:39
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The only shrine that remotely stuck in my brain as a good one is the blue flame torch one.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:40
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:the greatest boss battle is the one where you're riding the top around the inside of a circular canyon and you damage it by doing sick kickflips off its frikkin face. if you attempt to argue with me i will contrive a Saw-like scenario where i do sick kickflips off ur face (in zelda) Hell yeah!
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Aug 24, 2020 21:42
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Tbh Zelda is so synonymous with what the medium is to me that it takes me a bit to process when people say they either don't like the series or have played maybe 1-2 games. e: As an eternal OOT mark, I still adore the Forest and Spirit temples Manoueverable fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 21:42
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Namnesor posted:What if the shriveled skeleton in the trailer... is actually a dehydrated Groose Get him to a hairdressers quick! Zore posted:3D dungeon is tough, for me its probably Lanaryu Mining Facility because I absolutely loved how it played with the time bubble stuff. Funny how although I love Majora's mask, the dungeons are the parts that most feel like a chore. Except Stonetower, Stonetower has sick music and a good twist, a ha ha ha.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:46
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RickRogers posted:Lol, sorry but nah. Castle was fun but hardly a dungeon. what even is a dungeon
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Aug 24, 2020 22:04
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Enter the FUNgeon
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Aug 24, 2020 22:05
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Augus posted:what even is a dungeon A miserable little pile of keys
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Aug 24, 2020 22:14
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Augus posted:what even is a dungeon It must be designed in the Dungeon province of France, otherwise it's technically a sparkling shrine
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Aug 24, 2020 22:19
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The best dungeon for me is OoT Great Deku Tree because it perfectly sets up the game
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Aug 24, 2020 22:34
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Captain Hygiene posted:Whenever I see an opinion like this I just wonder, like...what do you get out of the series? You're not wrong, because enjoyment is subjective, but for me the series has traditionally been focused entirely around the dungeons. It's great when we get good stuff around them, but they're 90% of why I play most of the games. I'm not the guy you quoted, but I have similar opinions. I don't hate all the dungeons, but they are my least favorite aspect of the series. I find them exhausting. The main draw of the series for me is exploring. I love exploring and doing quests and solving puzzles. Dungeons are a thing I do to get more tools so I can explore more. Which is why BotW is my favorite Zelda. You get all the toys from the word go and the Shrines are perfect bite sized puzzle dungeons. I even prefer BotW's dungeons to the rest of the series. My favorite 3D Zelda dungeon is the yeti mansion in TP, partly because I didn't even realize it was a dungeon until I got the map and compass.
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Aug 24, 2020 22:42
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Silver Falcon posted:I'm not the guy you quoted, but I have similar opinions. I don't hate all the dungeons, but they are my least favorite aspect of the series. I find them exhausting. I basically just agree with this post. I think the heart of Zelda is above ground, not below it; I remember the Battleship guy who says "sploosh," not the Tower of the Gods. Dungeons are mostly chores to me: "now I have to do this dungeon so I get more access to the overworld and can find more characters to interact with." They're just long, and not that interesting to me. I didn't play Wind Waker until HD, but in the latter I thought the best part of the game was the Triforce quest near the end, where the game throws all its doors open and you just go around exploring until you have enough money to see the finale. I think the best 3D dungeon was Stone Tower, as you may have guessed from my earlier post. That whole area has a wonderful sense of atmosphere, and the Stone Tower is both creepy and compelling to navigate. For what it's worth, I don't feel this way at all about the 2D Zelda games; 2D Zelda combat is more rewarding and the dungeons are more compact, so I don't get bored and exhausted going through them.
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Aug 24, 2020 23:03
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All of the best dungeons in Breath of the Wild were outdoors. However, although lacking the sense of visual and architectural distinction that traditional dungeons use very effectively, the shrines and divine beasts did have some really dope puzzles.
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Aug 24, 2020 23:25
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This is at least partially nostalgia talking, but I think I'd have to go with Forsaken Fortress as my favorite dungeon, chiefly on account of how much work it puts in as a setpiece throughout the game. The initial stealth run is... well, it's not amazing, but it's by far the most fun stealth has been in the series pre-BOTW, and it does a good job of showcasing the "steal your enemies' weapons" mechanic (look, BOTW DNA!). And conceptually it makes perfect sense within the context of the narrative. You're an idiot child who literally just left home and doesn't know poo poo about poo poo, so of course your only option is to sneak your way past the big scary guards because you managed to lose track of your sword. And then all of that sets you up to feel like a huge badass when you come back later in the game more experienced, better equipped, and ready to kick in the door and clear the place out properly. Admittedly the skull hammer is kind of boring as an item, though squashing miniblins with it is pretty fun. And constantly switching between the interior and exterior maps makes navigating the place kind of a chore. Phantom Ganon is a fun callback though. But then you make it to the boss room, and you get the payoff to Link's primary motivation up to that point, complete with beating up the rear end in a top hat bird that started this whole mess. And then you go up to confront Ganondorf, and everything that happens after you open that door all the way until Valoo shows up to save your butt and burn the place to the ground is just an incredibly iconic moment.
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Aug 24, 2020 23:34
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Interesting...I can see some of the examples, but I think WW and BotW are the only two that really jump out to me as exploration being big enough to be a main draw. Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess sometimes felt a bit like that but ultimately still felt small enough that the overworlds mostly felt like they were just the between-dungeon areas. e: lol also I hate Forsaken Fortress with a passion, especially with it at the start. It's the biggest piece of my hatred for stealth stuff in non-stealth games.
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Aug 24, 2020 23:34
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I feel like BotW2 is going to have to involve time travel or a dark world situation; how else can you reuse the map but have it different enough to justify a new game?
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Aug 24, 2020 23:45
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I hope BotW 2 has boss and enemy variety. And dungeon variety, and more fleshed out and 'designed' areas cause huge chunks of the map (And shrines) feel like filler. For as pretty as some places can be there's nothing anywhere near as striking as early much more curated zelda locals. Also like, every enemy needs half as much HP and every weapon needs to deal triple damage, enemies taking more than 8 hits in a zelda game is a goddamn chore and feels like it was just there to justify weapon breaking. Also like, real dungeon items even if they're just new Runes. A Grappling hook rune that lets you do some physics swinging anywhere or tie things together for example. Also a cast of interesting characters that aren't loving dead. What I'm saying is the farther away I get from playing BotW the more it sours for me. When's the last time we had like....a 'classic' Lttp zelda formula game? With the dungeons and items and overworld and poo poo? TP? SS was doign the weird Overworld As Mini Dungeons and Item Upgrading poo poo, LBW had the renting items so the game wasn't really structured and you could just kind of do whatever whenever, BotW is what it is. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 00:02
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I hope BotW 2 has boss and enemy variety. I don't think that making BotW exactly like the 17 games that preceded it would improve it.
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Aug 25, 2020 00:09
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I hope BotW 2 has boss and enemy variety. In terms of overall game structure, Breath of the Wild is probably the closest to the original NES game we've seen.
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Aug 25, 2020 01:27
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I’m also open to expanding the definition of dungeon. Eventide Isle is a better dungeon than many of the real dungeons in Link’s Awakening or Link Between Worlds, and I like it better than Dodongo Cavern or Great Bay
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Aug 25, 2020 01:32
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Remember that dungeon where you had to follow the korok through the spooky woods? More of that please.
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Aug 25, 2020 01:49
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Bust Rodd posted:I’m also open to expanding the definition of dungeon. Eventide Isle is a better dungeon than many of the real dungeons in Link’s Awakening or Link Between Worlds, and I like it better than Dodongo Cavern or Great Bay Isn't the only thing you do on Eventide is get the ball off the dude's neck and put it on a switch? I liked Eventide a lot because the challenge of "no items, have fun" was great but it was more relatable to a 10 minute side quest then a proper dungeon. The Skulltula Houses are more "dungeon" like than Eventide. Cartoon Man posted:Remember that dungeon where you had to follow the korok through the spooky woods? More of that please. 
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Aug 25, 2020 02:07
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Cartoon Man posted:Remember that dungeon where you had to follow the korok through the spooky woods? More of that please. 
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Aug 25, 2020 02:07
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sigher posted:Isn't the only thing you do on Eventide is get the ball off the dude's neck and put it on a switch? I liked Eventide a lot because the challenge of "no items, have fun" was great but it was more relatable to a 10 minute side quest then a proper dungeon. The Skulltula Houses are more "dungeon" like than Eventide. I did eventide eaaarly, like one of each upgrade early It was not a ten minute side quest for me, it was boot camp One of the best things about the game is how they're so many ways to experience it
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Aug 25, 2020 02:09
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I never got past the tutorial of Skyward Sword because it was bullshit. BOTW's Great Plateau was amazing because it wasn't until I actually left it that I realized that the entire area was the tutorial. More BoTW please.
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Aug 25, 2020 02:28
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Mylan posted:I feel like BotW2 is going to have to involve time travel or a dark world situation; how else can you reuse the map but have it different enough to justify a new game? The BOTW2 announcement trailer referenced Twilight Princess so heavily I'd be shocked if we don't see some derivative of the Twilight Realm return. It may as well have been a TP sequel announcement afaic
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Aug 25, 2020 02:40
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Mylan posted:I feel like BotW2 is going to have to involve time travel or a dark world situation; how else can you reuse the map but have it different enough to justify a new game? The teaser seems to be hinting at some underground areas getting opened up. sigher posted:The Skulltula Houses are more "dungeon" like than Eventide. Bringing back the Skulltula houses (or something similar with different collectibles) could be interesting.
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Aug 25, 2020 02:47
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:I never got past the tutorial of Skyward Sword because it was bullshit. BOTW's Great Plateau was amazing because it wasn't until I actually left it that I realized that the entire area was the tutorial. To the degree that the Plateau was a microcosm of the whole game, I'd daresay the beginning of the game was the purest form of BotW and will be the hardest to replicate. Stumbling upon the Talus, cutting trees to get across a chasm, crafting simple foods to regain hearts or endure the colds, using environmental objects to kill enemies...all of this slowly erodes away as you gain power/items and get the Paraglider. When the Plateau was playable at the one E3, people were already crowning BotW as game of the year. Of course the rest of the game is great but the Plateau is the best tutorial of any game I can think of. You had some general direction but had to figure it out yourself and you learned everything you needed to know for the rest of the game. Also, it's huge. The Plateau is bigger than most Zelda overworlds by itself. When you get off it, you begin to recognize just how vast Hyrule is and how small you are in it.
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Aug 25, 2020 02:48
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The Maroon Hawk posted:The BOTW2 announcement trailer referenced Twilight Princess so heavily I'd be shocked if we don't see some derivative of the Twilight Realm return. It may as well have been a TP sequel announcement afaic Didn't it basically revolve around what looked like that version of an ancient stabbed Ganon? I wouldn't mind it, whatever problems that game had, I liked its version of Ganon as epic revenge spirit.
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Aug 25, 2020 03:11
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Skrill.exe posted:I don't think that making BotW exactly like the 17 games that preceded it would improve it. I'm not saying exactly like the games before it I'm saying pull what works from them because the generic puzzle zones and 4 Dungeons with 1 gimmick between them all got extremely boring before even the end of this game. Another doing the same isn't something I want to experience. BotW plays a lot like a proof of concept and it's proven so now they can actually fill it in with somethign other than the like...20 Generic Objects they repeat throughout the whole thing. But I'll forgive all of that if they just change the HP/DAmage numbers because even when properly geared the higher tier enemies are a boring slog to fight. They're not difficult, nor fun, it's just a test of your patience because you do so little damage and they have So much health. Also just more enemy variety in general. The tiny selection they went with really didn't help the world feel any less copy pasted when you ran into your 8th skull rock and it's just more loving Goblins. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 03:17
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