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Companies should go to remote driving that is actually done by operators outsourced to whatever country like how they can remote control predator drones. Just get em some logitech wheels and pedals and a fast internet connection. dear god no but I bet this is already been looked into and patented
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Aug 26, 2020 20:44
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TheWevel posted:My Bolt is still in OnStar demo mode...I leased it in January. For awhile GM was giving 5 free years of "Basic" OnStar to Volts and Bolts upon purchase/lease. And it was transferable to new owners if you sold/traded in within the 5 year period. My 2017 Volt was one of those. I have "Basic Connectivity" until December 25, 2021. I get the remote keyfob, charging status, and car locator (which the basic plan is not supposed to have) for free. They don't have anything else on offer that I would ever think about paying for. They stopped doing this with the the 2019 Volts entirely I am pretty sure. And also the 2018+ Bolts.
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Aug 26, 2020 20:44
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Honestly, if $15/mo got me all the onstar features, that wouldn't be so bad. But that they want like $60 for all of them? That's goddamn outrageous. I play MMOs so I don't mind a sub for some features. The sell for me is in what features I get for it. Like Tesla's aren't so bad at $10/mo, and you can easily go without them.stevewm posted:They stopped doing this with the the 2019 Volts entirely I am pretty sure. And also the 2018+ Bolts. They did not, they give you 5 years of remote connectivity. They changed what they give you afaik. I had to call onstar for it. Westy543 fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 20:45
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priznat posted:Companies should go to remote driving that is actually done by operators outsourced to whatever country like how they can remote control predator drones. Just get em some logitech wheels and pedals and a fast internet connection. unlike with drones where there's an increase in capability with having a remote operator (you get long loiter times and relatively low risk to operator casualties), there's basically no advantage and the costs are extremely high
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Aug 26, 2020 20:47
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It's hard to say whether it would be better for consumers if manufacturers baked in the cost of mobile access into the initial purchase ($10/month over 10 years, +$1200 onto car price) or to offer it as a separate optional subscription. These subscriptions and software unlocks feel annoying to me as a consumer but they do lower the entry level and make modern vehicles more available to all consumers.
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Aug 26, 2020 20:48
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Westy543 posted:Honestly, if $15/mo got me all the onstar features, that wouldn't be so bad. But that they want like $60 for all of them? That's goddamn outrageous. I play MMOs so I don't mind a sub for some features. The sell for me is in what features I get for it. Like Tesla's aren't so bad at $10/mo, and you can easily go without them. Yeah they have changed it multiple times :/ For some time 2018 Volt owners where being told it was not included, only a 3 month trial was... then it suddenly was. For several months the location feature was disabled, then they turned it back on. Worst of all only 1 out of 4 people you called at OnStar knew what the hell you where talking about. I had to go through this with mine. When my free trial of the "premium" package ran out, it completely quit working. I had to talk to a couple different people to get the Basic service I was supposed to have turned back on. Then in early 2019 it stopped working again. I had to call and have it re-enabled.
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Aug 26, 2020 21:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:unlike with drones where there's an increase in capability with having a remote operator (you get long loiter times and relatively low risk to operator casualties), there's basically no advantage and the costs are extremely high I know, it was a terrible idea but I am sure some suit looked at onstar etc and said “hmm, but what if we..” Latency alone would make it completely unworkable.
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Aug 26, 2020 21:45
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MomJeans420 posted:Ford should sell this as a special edition, but make sure to add wheelie control like modern supersport bikes 
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Aug 26, 2020 21:53
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Yuns posted:I'm not loving these new things auto makers are doing like requiring subscriptions for car features (Kia requires a UVO subscription to use their phone app to access remote access features on your car) and locking built in features behind software and charging to unlock them (Tesla acceleration boost; KTM track and performance modes etc.). I wholeheartedly agree and I can't believe I'm going to defend Tesla, but I could see a case for Tesla's acceleration boost in that if the feature is on and the car wears out faster, they need more money to make up for the potential warranty repairs. Some buyers may not care about the boost though, so the car is more affordable in general and those willing to pay for performance can still get it (ignoring any warranty / service issues, just talking ideally). I still don't like it though. FilthyImp posted:Is it that bullshit Driving as a Service subscription thing the Cadillacs have? I don't know why people said it's not, isn't this what you're referring to? Nfcknblvbl posted:The car sounds amazing at launch. I don't care for electric bike sounds, but that Mach E is definitely KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Why shouldn't they sell it as a one-time cost, then, and budget for warranty cost out of that, just like they would with say, a different higher output powertrain on a conventional ICE car? The problem with subscription stuff is that it's easily taken away. I agree, but this way you can upsell someone after they've purchased the car. I don't believe the Tesla boost feature is a subscription, I would differentiate between one time upgrades that stay with the car forever and a recurring fees. MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 22:12
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Why shouldn't they sell it as a one-time cost, then, and budget for warranty cost out of that, just like they would with say, a different higher output powertrain on a conventional ICE car? The problem with subscription stuff is that it's easily taken away.
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Aug 26, 2020 22:15
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stevewm posted:Worst of all only 1 out of 4 people you called at OnStar knew what the hell you where talking about. God, so much this. I had to go through so many calls, and then read them the language about it from the onstar site. I had to do this any time I contacted onstar for anything. I eventually just got it in the most working state and stopped contacting them to fix things. My locate vehicle also randomly turned back on, Idk. This poo poo is really bad, actually. I feel like I lucked out and dodged a bullet rather than feeling like I got it fixed.
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Aug 26, 2020 22:56
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"Driving as a Service" is one of the most depressing concepts I've read with cars I've read in a long time.
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Aug 26, 2020 23:04
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Why shouldn't they sell it as a one-time cost, then, and budget for warranty cost out of that, just like they would with say, a different higher output powertrain on a conventional ICE car? The problem with subscription stuff is that it's easily taken away. The Model 3 acceleration boost is a one time charge, tied to the VIN, just like FSD or any of the myriad other confusingly-named automation packages.
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Aug 26, 2020 23:26
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MrYenko posted:The Model 3 acceleration boost is a one time charge, tied to the VIN, just like FSD or any of the myriad other confusingly-named automation packages. Except when it isn't. https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-removes-autopilot-features-from-customer-1841472617
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Aug 26, 2020 23:30
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Ola posted:The Kia bit is obviously fair enough, as it depends on a mobile network which costs the car maker money per use. Not only the mobile traffic but also running web servers which handle the requests. I haven't heard about a new smart device for a long time, but way back in 2018 or something it was common to sell smart household gadgets without subscriptions, imagining the cloud bills would be paid by new VC capital, new sales or *shuffles papers* "I don't know, let's just see". The back ends for IoT are all built on cloud providers using serverless these days so the costs are low and scale pretty linearly with with device count. You can easily bake the running costs into the purchase price of the device. The subscription model is really just a method to squeeze a recurring revenue stream out of a physical product and also double dip when the car gets sold on the used market.
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Aug 27, 2020 00:46
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MomJeans420 posted:Ford should sell this as a special edition, but make sure to add wheelie control like modern supersport bikes  That is insane, I'm sure it'll never be released since that drivetrain has to be high maintenance AF, and Ford's policy of "the V8 Mustang is King" but it's so freaking cool. I worked on 1400hp pumps, that had to start within a second, and I'll always remember the sound as all that power developed a magnetic field, and started cutting through the flux bars on the rotor, sounded like a UFO was hovering 6" from your ear. Those pumps were also 4160V, and powered by a super-turbocharged diesel engine that was a story high, getting that much power from something in the Mustang's form factor is mind boggling.
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Aug 27, 2020 05:56
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Nfcknblvbl posted:Except when it isn't. https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-removes-autopilot-features-from-customer-1841472617 Except when it is. https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/13/21136699/tesla-autopilot-used-model-s-owner-restored-assistance-features
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Aug 27, 2020 08:19
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Ola posted:"Premium features" like more acceleration is another thing all together, it's mostly them trying stuff out, seeing how it goes. But aren't you better off without it in every case? If they suddenly nerfed it and asked for money, and there was no small print when I bought it, I would be pissed. But super special "track" (i.e. a quiet Sunday road we're doing a vlog on) features that go beyond what you paid for, sure go nuts. Think of the money you save every month, being happy with your safe, milque toast 4-something 0-62 instead of paying extra for a 3.8. When something like that is a mere software switch away, I view it as artificially limiting the capabilities of the hardware I bought. It's the same as when Tesla puts the same full-size battery in all cars, but artificially limit the capacity in software unless you buy the next level up. It's wasteful and abhorrent. And subscription services for features your car should by all rights already have, is even worse.
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Aug 27, 2020 09:19
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KozmoNaut posted:It's the same as when Tesla puts the same full-size battery in all cars, They don't in all, but some 60s are software limited 75s.
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Aug 27, 2020 10:15
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Coming soon to a car near you - automotive microtransactions and loot boxes.KozmoNaut posted:When something like that is a mere software switch away, I view it as artificially limiting the capabilities of the hardware I bought. It's the same as when Tesla puts the same full-size battery in all cars, but artificially limit the capacity in software unless you buy the next level up. Yuns fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 10:50
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Westy543 posted:Honestly, if $15/mo got me all the onstar features, that wouldn't be so bad. But that they want like $60 for all of them? That's goddamn outrageous. I play MMOs so I don't mind a sub for some features. The sell for me is in what features I get for it. Like Tesla's aren't so bad at $10/mo, and you can easily go without them. The Audi one isn't quite as bad at about $30/month for wifi and everything else. I think most of the money goes to AT&T for the wifi hotspot.
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Aug 27, 2020 11:06
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Looking forward to value-based pricing where the subscription for my car constantly increases so it's not lower than any other transport option in my area. Has anyone driven a Taycan? I'm planning to go and check one out while my car is being serviced, mostly to try and gauge if I need to wait for the e-tron GT instead of the current one, but a 4S may be within range if I can do a deal.
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Aug 27, 2020 11:56
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priznat posted:Companies should go to remote driving that is actually done by operators outsourced to whatever country like how they can remote control predator drones. Just get em some logitech wheels and pedals and a fast internet connection. There are a few startups that do exactly this with mining/heavy equipment. A operator in a container with all the controller kit and RF/satlinks on the vehicles
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Aug 27, 2020 12:32
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KozmoNaut posted:When something like that is a mere software switch away, I view it as artificially limiting the capabilities of the hardware I bought. It's the same as when Tesla puts the same full-size battery in all cars, but artificially limit the capacity in software unless you buy the next level up. Agree on subscription services, but that's a weird take otherwise. How many cars (particularly VW/Audi diesels) are a mere ECU tune away from significantly more power? Where do you draw the line on manufacturers "artificially" limiting performance? Naked bikes based on a supersport engine, tuned for midrange power instead of top end? Sleeved down engines? Not putting the aggressive cam on the commuter spec of a model? Is it just a hardware ok, software not ok thing for you? Calling it abhorrent is pretty hyperbolic (yes I know this is the internet).
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Aug 27, 2020 13:07
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KozmoNaut posted:When something like that is a mere software switch away, I view it as artificially limiting the capabilities of the hardware I bought. It's the same as when Tesla puts the same full-size battery in all cars, but artificially limit the capacity in software unless you buy the next level up. The battery thing: it was probably easier for Tesla to build only 75 packs for a production run than switch between 75 and 60. I know a couple who has an X60 and they actually like it a lot. Charges hella fast to 100% even on superchargers 
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Aug 27, 2020 13:17
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Finger Prince posted:Agree on subscription services, but that's a weird take otherwise. How many cars (particularly VW/Audi diesels) are a mere ECU tune away from significantly more power? I'm complaining about when features or performance that are in the hardware are locked away behind software. Just off the top of my head, the Opel Corsa is/was available with a 1.0 turbo 3-cylinder with either 90hp or 115hp. The only difference being that the 90hp kneecaps itself and plateaus the power where the 115hp keeps going. The engines are 100% identical, same turbo, same everything and cost the exact same to build. One model is just artificially made worse for no other reason than market segmentation, plus it even cost them some time and money to implement the kneecapping of the lesser-powered model. The additional 25hp is not some scarce resource in limited supply. I have the same problem with smartphones in the EU, which artificially limit the output power into headphones, because some people turn up the volume too much and damage their ears. Well ok, but I have headphones that need more power, and with this artificial limitation they are unable to reach a decent volume level. The hardware is perfectly capable (and available with full output power in other regions), but it is artificially locked out. All I want is for devices I buy to have their actual intended level of performance, instead of having it locked behind subscriptions and exploitative pricing. Yes, I care about stuff like that.
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Aug 27, 2020 13:41
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As more and more stuff is dependent on software I have a hard time begrudging companies enabling features for cash. With things like traffic sign recognition or whatever it's using a camera that's already there, just changing what the car does with it. What I really don't like is subscription based access which can obviously get changed while you're using it.
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Aug 27, 2020 14:46
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Ford so far doesn't charge a subscription for their FordPass app and features (remote start, unlock, find car, etc). There is a wifi hotspot on some cars (not mine) that I assume has a charge but it might be through ATT. On a related noted when I got my first Fusion over a decade ago it was used with one previous owner: Ford Motor Company. It was some company car and when they transfered it to the dealer the Sirius radio subscription was never deactivated. I had free access for several years until someone realized and one day just stopped.
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Aug 27, 2020 15:25
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KozmoNaut posted:
Oh is that why my tablet is so quiet, even if I turn it up into the red? It's a UK model I think. I'm not listening to anything loud. It seems to require more volume even over Bluetooth.
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Aug 27, 2020 15:59
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Zero One posted:the Sirius radio subscription was never deactivated. I had free access for several years until someone realized and one day just stopped. At my work, we used to use XM for our store music. We switched away from it years ago. The radios where unplugged before I called XM to shut them off. Most of them were sold on eBay. I saved one so we could use it at our new corp. office we where going to be moving into soon. When we moved into our new corp. office about a year later, I made the discovery that the one radio I didn't sell was still active! That was 11 years ago; to this day we still have free XM radio as our background music. I'm guessing XM/Sirius only sends the de-activation signal for a period of time. Since the radio was off and unplugged for a year, it never received that signal.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:02
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Elviscat posted:
My dad had a parking garage in midtown Manhattan that dated back to the early 1900s. The car elevators had these huge induction motors that made cool sounds. Totally manual operation.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:37
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Saw that Costco has a L2 Portable Charger with Edison and Nema-15 adaptors as a weekly special. Looks like a great pickup for a spare or in-home charger.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:46
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Finger Prince posted:Agree on subscription services, but that's a weird take otherwise. How many cars (particularly VW/Audi diesels) are a mere ECU tune away from significantly more power? Here we are talking about the manufacturer creating artificial tiers through software in identical hardware not driven by use case or cost, emissions, noise or economy.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:55
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Yuns posted:That's an easy to distinguish distinction. Power is tuned to ensure engines meet emissions and fuel economy standards as well as maintain reliability and driveability. When a naked and supersport share an engine one may be "detuned" but generally that doesn't mean that the naked is worse it generally means that pure hp may go to the supersport for track purposes but that the naked is more likely to be used on the street so tuning focuses on midrange torque. This is a case were neither is clearly "better" but rather it's a choice based on market and use. The manufacturer doesn't offer the alternative reflashes for a fee. Generally the after market ECU reflashes may not meet economy, emissions or noise standards. I think "I want the faster one because I want to go faster and I'll pay for the upgrade" and "Nah don't care about going faster, in fact give me a discount for a slower one if you can" is absolutely a use case driven decision. What is the difference between all the different tiers of Fiat 500 that get different power from the same 1.4l 16v engine? Are you saying that if you pay extra for the power upgrade, you should at least get some fake carbon fiber trim and a spoiler to go along with it?
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Aug 27, 2020 17:57
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Finger Prince posted:Agree on subscription services, but that's a weird take otherwise. How many cars (particularly VW/Audi diesels) are a mere ECU tune away from significantly more power? You realize that a lot of people have been opposed to that kind of limit since computers started showing up in cars, right? It's not a new development. I recently bought a Chevy TBI-powered truck for camping and Home Depot runs, and hoooooboy does the community STILL have choice words for GM about the garbo tuning, particularly on the big block.
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Aug 27, 2020 18:02
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Godholio posted:You realize that a lot of people have been opposed to that kind of limit since computers started showing up in cars, right? It's not a new development. I recently bought a Chevy TBI-powered truck for camping and Home Depot runs, and hoooooboy does the community STILL have choice words for GM about the garbo tuning, particularly on the big block. Yeah, that's kinda my point. Kozmo was saying how insensed he is that a company would dare to do such a thing, and I'm thinking, what company doesn't, and hasn't for like decades?
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Aug 27, 2020 18:04
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Elviscat posted:Those pumps were also 4160V, and powered by a super-turbocharged diesel engine that was a story high, getting that much power from something in the Mustang's form factor is mind boggling. I always wondered if the tolerances on huge engines scale with the size, or if they're pretty comparable to your typical car engine.
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Aug 27, 2020 18:33
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That being said, I do understand being upset about it. Just not extremely so. Many moons ago, I looked into getting laser eye surgery. They did all these tests and took a detailed scan of my eyes and determined I had larger than normal pupils, so in order to mitigate the chance of ending up with night halos, they would have to use the custom map that they just took of my eye and plug that into the laser machine, instead of the default map. They charged several thousand dollars to do this. Same laser, same equipment, same procedure, they just plug in the custom map they already have and charge you extra for it. I still wear glasses, because gently caress, that's just shady. But they're a for-profit business, so I figure shady upselling is pretty much expected. 
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Aug 27, 2020 18:41
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Finger Prince posted:Yeah, that's kinda my point. Kozmo was saying how insensed he is that a company would dare to do such a thing, and I'm thinking, what company doesn't, and hasn't for like decades? Which is why I hate all companies 
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Aug 27, 2020 19:09
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Finger Prince posted:That being said, I do understand being upset about it. Just not extremely so. Many moons ago, I looked into getting laser eye surgery. They did all these tests and took a detailed scan of my eyes and determined I had larger than normal pupils, so in order to mitigate the chance of ending up with night halos, they would have to use the custom map that they just took of my eye and plug that into the laser machine, instead of the default map. They charged several thousand dollars to do this. Same laser, same equipment, same procedure, they just plug in the custom map they already have and charge you extra for it. I still wear glasses, because gently caress, that's just shady. But they're a for-profit business, so I figure shady upselling is pretty much expected. And if you say "no thanks, default map please" they mash that big ol' "ENSURE NIGHT HALOS" button.
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