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as someone with toned vr legs i still like teleport because its just more convenient
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Sep 4, 2020 19:18
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LLSix posted:I was prepared to laugh about this, but it's a real game. How does the first one (which is free) compare to the sequel? They're both silly little fitness games. The second one (aside from its profits going toward Racies) adds a lateral movement drill in which you sidestep within your boundaries to fit your body through "doors" that come at you. So lots of going back and forth for cardio, basically. The game isn't particularly compelling, so the answer was mostly a joke. 
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Sep 4, 2020 19:18
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gently caress boneworks' movement by the way. gently caress bumping into stuff and having the camera move despite you not moving irl trash
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Sep 4, 2020 19:18
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Shine posted:They're both silly little fitness games. The second one (aside from its profits going toward Racies) adds a lateral movement drill in which you sidestep within your boundaries to fit your body through "doors" that come at you. So lots of going back and forth for cardio, basically. Well my wife saw me trying out hot squats and thought it looked cool; so joke’s on you, I am probably going to buy it. Racies looks like a good cause anyways.
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Sep 4, 2020 19:25
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Zaphod42 posted:Is pressing "W" to move forwards "fun" either? Its just something you do so you can play the game. The fun in a flatscreen game comes from the action, the shooting, the guns. Yeah it's largely not, which is why almost all current FPS games except like the hyper-realistic ARMA style have stuff like slides, mantling, parachutes, or more explicit movement abilities like in Overwatch and stuff. Most of the stick loco games are really, really limited even compared to that. Teleport lets you move up and down more easily, but it has all its own issues.
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Sep 4, 2020 19:30
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Inacio posted:as someone with toned vr legs i still like teleport because its just more convenient I feel like something like Alyx that has the option of both without even going into the menu is the best way to handle it and I don't know why more games don't do it. And they should all copy Alyx's control scheme. Left stick moves, right stick turns, pull back to teleport or "dash" then use right forward for whatever. probably jump. This should be the gold standard. I am also someone who has my vr Legs after hundreds of hours of VR but I still get occasional bouts of motion sickness. I'd never use telepor exclusively but I like having the option as long as it doesn't involve changing stuff in the menus.
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Sep 4, 2020 19:42
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Jet Island is a game with fun movement, so clearly every VR game should play like you're hoverboard Spiderman.
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Sep 4, 2020 19:43
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The first and only time I ever had motion sickness was from playing Serious Sam and using manual movement and no "circle". Within maybe 15 mins I literally thought I might puke. I love thrill rides and never get motion sickness from travel, but that was a terrible experience.
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Sep 4, 2020 19:52
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I've blathered about this before, but the problem I have with smooth locomotion is that it's generally so much more effective from a gameplay perspective that it feels like it's generally the better option to use, even though it's in some ways less fun. Take Onward, for example. While it doesn't have teleportation movement, it works well to illustrate a problem with smooth movement. When I first played, I would slide my character into a general area, and then step around my (fairly large) playspace to peek around walls, lean out of cover and shoot, etc. But doing so would of course jostle my aim slightly as I moved, and sometimes that was just enough that I'd get shot in that split-second I needed to tighten up my aim, or I'd barely miss my shot. After a while, as a "win the game" adaptation, I stopped stepping around in my space as much, and instead just used the game's locomotion to slide myself out of cover. This works better gameplay-wise, as my aim doesn't jostle from making physical motions, but it's kinda going against the spirit of the medium, essentially turning it into "WASD+Mouse except 3D". This is less fun, but it works better, and it's hard to force one's self to do something that is more fun but less effective, especially in a twitchy shooter where you can die in a split second and then have to sit around being bored until the next round. About the only consistent exception I've made is that I refuse to play space combat games with a mouse (which makes fine aiming easier), because my HOTAS setup makes it way more fun, and those are generally games where twitchy reflex stuff is less important than spacial awareness and positioning. The move fun I've had with movement in VR (Echo Arena aside) is Sairento. The shooting is serviceable and the melee is garbage (the old "waggle your wrist because each sword touch does damage" bit that later VR melee titles have tried to address), but that's a game with a legit fun movement system that you play 95% because of how cool it feels to Neo your way around
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Sep 4, 2020 20:03
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Anyone played Megaton Rainfall with the Rift S? It seems like it could be a fun game, but I can't even get past the initial "tutorial". I can fly around, and it tells me to chase this object, but I can never catch it. It says something about hold the "grip", and I don't know what that is. I held the button that I think earlier it told me were the grip, but that just made me go down. The only thing I can think is that it's some obscure controller incompatibility... Can anyone help?
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Sep 4, 2020 20:05
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Lemming posted:Echo Arena and it's not even close to being close. It's on a different tier than every other VR game. Why? Isn't this just the space frisbee game?
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Sep 4, 2020 20:19
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sigher posted:Why? Isn't this just the space frisbee game? It's the incredibly fun space frisbee game, yes.
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Sep 4, 2020 20:21
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sigher posted:Why? Isn't this just the space frisbee game? Soccer is just a ball kicking game
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Sep 4, 2020 20:24
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I just love that a lot of the newer breed (and some older) of VR games have realized how important it is to simulate weight and set environmental limitations. It's something that most of the early games didn't even consider. just having your hands go right through objects and walls, or you are holding some giant fuckoff gun or broadsword, but it feels like a gun shaped balloon. I don't think anyone's perfected it yet, but it feels like its at least half way there.
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Sep 4, 2020 20:31
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A puzzler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_gqbYsem3w edit: also Stride is out in EA https://store.steampowered.com/app/1292040/STRIDE/ The first phase will be STRIDE Arcade and will consist of three modes, each released separately and in short succession. These are: Endless mode. Infinite level generation provides unlimited challenging terrain . This mode is available now. Arena Mode. A spacious varied-terrain arena with waves of enemies. Perfect for practicing tricks and refining your shooting skills. . Coming soon. Time Chase Mode. Test your parkour-at-speed skills in a race against the clock. . Coming soon. The second phase of the release will be the complete story version of the game. We are working on this parallel with the Arcade Modes and will announce the official release date as soon as it’s confirmed. It's seems very 'early access'. Only one of four modes for now. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 20:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0u1QVSGizE
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Sep 4, 2020 20:36
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sigher posted:Why? Isn't this just the space frisbee game? To elaborate on this and not just leave it as a flippant reply (I've gushed about the game a lot over the past few years so I hope this doesn't come off as rehashing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjIootUpJQ I think a lot of this video speaks for itself, but the reason that I think Echo is such a successful game is that they did a much better job of grounding you in a consistent world. This is encompassed in a lot of their decisions, but moment to moment it's most obvious in the movement. The way you grab on surfaces and push off of them just feels great, and you're doing it a lot, which is always good. It also really connects you to the environment, because you don't just sort of look around and get a sense of your environment, you're constantly interacting with it directly. This really builds a lot on the social aspects, because everything ends up reinforcing the idea of existing in this shared environment. Nobody's just sort of sliding around or warping, everyone is moving deliberately place to place. They keep with this idea really well in all the UI, including physical terminals you have to press buttons on if you want to do matchmaking or change your cosmetics or move to the different game modes or anything like that. As far as the actual game, yeah it's "just" space frisbee but sports are compelling for a reason, it's an utterly fantastic team game with a lot of teamwork, positioning, passing, and lots of space to do individually cool plays and shots and jukes and brawls. It's really elegant.
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Sep 4, 2020 20:40
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I don't get motion sickness from smooth movement but I also just don't really like it most of the time. It feels weird to have your head slide along smoothly like you're being pulled in a wagon. I thought the teleport movement in Alyx plenty immersive most of the time, I think it was the sound design that really made it work compared to other games.
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Sep 4, 2020 20:54
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wolrah posted:Amusingly my 1.0 Lighthouses' power management is more reliable than it's ever been before since the 2004 update. I went years manually plugging and unplugging them, but 2004 fixed everything and they've worked perfectly every time since. Based on this I decided to try taking the 2004 plunge. SteamVR can still wake up my basestations just fine, but it's only able to put one of them to sleep. So, back to manual plugging/unplugging.
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Sep 4, 2020 21:00
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I'm 2 hours into Alyx and I've recently beaten Boneworks, and if I could get a game that had the vastness and freedom of movement of Boneworks (MINUS the body collision), with the attention to detail and atmosphere of Alyx, then that'd be perfection. Is Boneworks janky with the body physics? Yes. Do I wish I could properly jump in Alyx? Yeah, it'd be cool. Are either games "objectively bad"? I don't think so, not at all. I also prefer smooth locomotion overall because it feels more immersive, but I won't give up on a game if it only has teleport (i.e. Obduction). Teleport just feels best for slower paced games in general. I don't think I'd have as much fun with an FPS that only allowed teleport and I'm very glad Alyx allows smooth movement.
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Sep 4, 2020 21:08
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veni veni veni posted:I just love that a lot of the newer breed (and some older) of VR games have realized how important it is to simulate weight and set environmental limitations. It's something that most of the early games didn't even consider. just having your hands go right through objects and walls, or you are holding some giant fuckoff gun or broadsword, but it feels like a gun shaped balloon. I don't think anyone's perfected it yet, but it feels like its at least half way there. I think its less that they didn't think of it and more that it just takes tons more work to implement and especially implement well, but yeah it does feel like we're getting better. Running my hands along the globe in Alyx I actually "feel" the shape of the object, between the controller clicks and your in-game hands having some weight and friction sticking to objects, its pretty good.
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Sep 4, 2020 21:30
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Thoom posted:Based on this I decided to try taking the 2004 plunge. SteamVR can still wake up my basestations just fine, but it's only able to put one of them to sleep.
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Sep 4, 2020 21:35
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I think there's a happy middle-ground between things being empty and made of paper-mache and things being so weighty that they become chores to interact with. I really loved Boneworks but on some occasions it veered a little too closely into the latter. Mainly when you were forced to do any puzzle involving huge barrels or those god drat metal red-handled boxes. I hated those loving things. I'm trying to hold out 'till they add a real roguelike/dungeon mode but Boneworks DID get me wanting Blade & Sorcery for more broadsword action.
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Sep 4, 2020 21:36
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Next step is adding game mechanics for full body tracking because when my brain is fully tricked and I try to kick the cardboard box on the ground, it'd be cool if I could actually kick it and not just feel mildly embarrassed.
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Sep 4, 2020 21:48
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Lemming posted:Soccer is just a ball kicking game Yeah but sports aren't fun either. What does Echo Arena bring to the VR table that puts it on "another tier" of VR experience?
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Sep 4, 2020 22:48
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sigher posted:Yeah but sports aren't fun either. If you don't like the very concept of sports maybe this one just isn't for you.
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Sep 4, 2020 22:54
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Tip posted:If you don't like the very concept of sports maybe this one just isn't for you. To be fair when I first checked it out I had 0 interest in the actual game because it was a sports style game which I had no interest in, but as soon as I started playing that sealed it up for me. It was just too good.
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Sep 4, 2020 23:06
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Echo vr is still be best "feeling" vr game i've played. People who are skeptical should just give it a try given it is free.
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Sep 4, 2020 23:20
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mashed_penguin posted:Echo vr is still be best "feeling" vr game i've played. People who are skeptical should just give it a try given it is free. Eh, I had the boneworks problem where my arms keep getting stuck or "grabbing" things that are behind me that I'm not even trying to touch. Its fun and tries to do novel things though so that's not easy.
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Sep 4, 2020 23:28
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Lone Echo is pretty dang great too. I think zero g is just uniquely suited for more immersive locomotion.
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Sep 4, 2020 23:41
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Zaphod42 posted:Eh, I had the boneworks problem where my arms keep getting stuck or "grabbing" things that are behind me that I'm not even trying to touch. Your arms can't grab anything unless you're pressing the grab button, it's different from Boneworks which has your hands be physics objects no matter what and it'll bump and jostle you around when you don't intend it to. For Echo, if you're not pressing grab your arms will phase through everything. There is some somewhat odd stuff where if you're trying to grab around an object, they have some raytracing that'll grab anything between your head and your hand, so if you try to reach around something and grab the back of it, you might grab thin air once your hand starts to pass behind the object from your line of sight.
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Sep 4, 2020 23:43
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Treated myself and got a Rift S last week and I've been digging it alot. Only have Boneworks and Until You Fall so far but both are phenomoenal. I bought Alyx but I only got like 20mins in before I had to refund it since it was running like garbage even on the lowest settings and googling just returned tons of people reporting similar performance issues on Rifts but no real solutions, bummer. Maybe some day...
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Sep 5, 2020 02:37
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Alyx was the first VR thing I played outside of occasional public demo stuff, so that might've colored my experiences, but honestly I felt it was kinda just... okay?  I think a lot of the issues I might've had were just from inexperience in moving/playing in VR space, + a kinda small play area. But I will say the weapons felt unsatisfyingly weak and it was ridiculous how many handgun rounds you needed to kill a headcrab.
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Sep 5, 2020 03:33
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ishikabibble posted:Alyx was the first VR thing I played outside of occasional public demo stuff, so that might've colored my experiences, but honestly I felt it was kinda just... okay? Weapons that feel like pea shooters is a pretty common problem with Valve games, HL2 had the same problem.
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Sep 5, 2020 03:39
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Zaphod42 posted:This thread loves to get really echo chambery about how everybody is such a hardcore VR gamer but acting like motion sickness in VR is a "looming spectre" that doesn't actually exist and is a foolish thing for devs to worry about is insane. I've never said Teleportation shouldn't exist, because of COURSE not everyone's got their VR Legs, the problem is that designing with Teleportation as the core movement option first and foremost is a lot more limiting than what can be done by starting from Smooth Locomotion and adding Teleportation as a second option that just sidesteps the relative elements (eg; jumping over a gap). Especially as people can gain their VR legs over time. Motion sickness absolutely was a looming spectre in VR, as the earliest games are real conservative with movement because the assumption was that even slight movement would cause everyone to buckle and vomit. It turns out it's just based on people's tolerance for regular motion sickness and not some insurmountable wall in VR design. Having no choice but to teleport through a space you should be able to duck through, or jump over, just breaks immersion for me. Walking over narrow beams and having to jump between rickety platforms feels empty when there's zero risk of flubbing a jump and falling because you just point and click to boop between them with no danger (and, again, I totally respect that being an option to have). ishikabibble posted:Alyx was the first VR thing I played outside of occasional public demo stuff, so that might've colored my experiences, but honestly I felt it was kinda just... okay? It takes four handgun bullets to kill a headcrab. I know because I just got to the point of counting them out each time  . The shotgun and SMG felt okay damage-wise at least.
Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Sep 5, 2020 |
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Sep 5, 2020 04:06
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Having no choice but to teleport through a space you should be able to duck through, or jump over, just breaks immersion for me. Walking over narrow beams and having to jump between rickety platforms feels empty when there's zero risk of flubbing a jump and falling because you just point and click to boop between them with no danger (and, again, I totally respect that being an option to have). Those sections felt risky to me because occasionally the teleportation would just instagib me for no reason. It wouldn't show the death sign or anything, I'd just teleport to a fairly safe looking spot and immediately die. I think this was caused by a malfunction in their system that determines a deadly teleportation, speaking of which, why even allow people to teleport to death? When they show the death symbol it should just not teleport.
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Sep 5, 2020 04:15
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ishikabibble posted:But I will say the weapons felt unsatisfyingly weak and it was ridiculous how many handgun rounds you needed to kill a headcrab. The upgrade system allows you to make your weapons a lot more effective and the game is basically designed so you spend a lot of ammo, so it kinda sucks but once you start decking your guns out things get a lot more fun. Kinda a shame that your guns suck in the beginning.
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Sep 5, 2020 05:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It takes four handgun bullets to kill a headcrab. I know because I just got to the point of counting them out each time The old "enemies have more health on higher difficulties" is especially problematic in VR. Be more willing to play on easy.
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Sep 5, 2020 05:57
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Having no choice but to teleport through a space you should be able to duck through, or jump over, just breaks immersion for me. Walking over narrow beams and having to jump between rickety platforms feels empty when there's zero risk of flubbing a jump and falling because you just point and click to boop between them with no danger (and, again, I totally respect that being an option to have). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnzjqoSA8dk&t=854s This part happened early in Alyx and it made me want to loving scream, it's barely shoulder height, and right next to you on the ramp is this loving pipe  that is so obviously something you should be able to use to climb across but no you HAVE to teleport across like you're loving nightcrawler aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Sep 5, 2020 06:23
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I've never said Teleportation shouldn't exist, because of COURSE not everyone's got their VR Legs, the problem is that designing with Teleportation as the core movement option first and foremost is a lot more limiting than what can be done by starting from Smooth Locomotion and adding Teleportation as a second option that just sidesteps the relative elements (eg; jumping over a gap). Can you go further as to why you think that is? I don't think its such a big deal as you're making it out to be. Neddy Seagoon posted:Motion sickness absolutely was a looming spectre in VR, as the earliest games are real conservative with movement because the assumption was that even slight movement would cause everyone to buckle and vomit. It turns out it's just based on people's tolerance for regular motion sickness and not some insurmountable wall in VR design. Okay this is just flat not fair, you're just assuming all of this. Some of the very first VR experiences available, way back on the Oculus DK1 and DK2, were things like Half Life 2 and Team Fortress 2 ported to VR. TF2 was one of the first things Valve tried. It wasn't that they made some assumption; they tested things and found some things didn't work. Before you learn how to make fast motion comfortable, it only makes sense developers would go ahead and bang out a few games / demos with what they already know to be comfortable and safe. And even though we now have better ideas of how to make games with full locomotion, it doesn't mean that standing experiences are suddenly worthless or invalidated; many are still my favorite VR games. Try thinking about any of this from the perspective of someone actually working on a VR project. Its not that they thought it was insurmountable. It just takes time and money and with VR titles you're already working on a small install base size that limits your budgets. Neddy Seagoon posted:Having no choice but to teleport through a space you should be able to duck through, or jump over, just breaks immersion for me. Walking over narrow beams and having to jump between rickety platforms feels empty when there's zero risk of flubbing a jump and falling because you just point and click to boop between them with no danger (and, again, I totally respect that being an option to have). Plenty of people may totally hate that kind of ability to fall in a VR game, or that danger. It may not be worth developing and testing that gameplay if they know most players will turn it off or hate it if it happens. At this point you're just complaining the game isn't exactly how you want it to be, but you're taking an air of self-righteousness like, the game is just lazy or designed for bad at VR people, rather than accepting that they went with another design choice that's probably got way more mainstream appeal. Not everything is exactly how you'd have it would be; such is games and life and art. Its like complaining that fallout isn't enough of a survival sim. Its a valid take and that's your opinion, but its just your opinion. Its not really a deficiency of the game, its just a different direction. Other games could satisfy that better maybe. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Sep 5, 2020 |
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Sep 5, 2020 06:37
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