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Slugworth posted:How much did you spend on your tv stand again? what in the world does that have to do with the post you are quoting
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Sep 14, 2020 04:18
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actionjackson posted:what in the world does that have to do with the post you are quoting lol
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Sep 14, 2020 04:25
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Now that we have a newborn and both of us are working from home I’m pretty drat happy about buying a house we knew we could grow into (kid 2 probably happening in a year or two, House is around 3000-3200sq ft but I believe that counts our unfinished basement and attic). Some of that square footage is our unfinished attic, which will be getting finished to be the permanent kid floor for the next 15-18 years. Having a home office was always important because we both randomly do independent work, and now with quarantine it’s been a lifesaver. We really don’t use our formal dining room outside of the few holidays we host family for dinner, but I rather be able to do that then have a smaller place — with our situation owning holidays makes our lives a lot easier. Now everything isn’t super efficient use of space, my house is three major additions that were slapped together over 200 years, but there have been times were having the space was extremely useful and it’s definitely been worth it for us. It’s a really fickle thing to prescribe onto other people and you really need to talk out what their day to day life is now and in the future, and what are those rare events they’d like to be able to support or decide it’s not worth the costs for an something that might happen once a year. God I can’t wait to finish this attic and get all the toys out of our living room.
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Sep 14, 2020 04:27
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no seriously, how is buying a nice piece of furniture conspicuous consumption? I bought it because it's a high quality piece and it really looks nice. also it was being discontinued and was a floor model which knocked 60% off. If I bought it because my neighbor got a nice media unit and I wanted to have a better one then you would have a point, but that's not what happened. I just decided I wanted something that wasn't cheap ikea crap anymore. what does this have to do with spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for more space in a home?
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Sep 14, 2020 04:28
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I'm not sure MDF is worth $2k. Or even $1kThe Dave posted:Now that we have a newborn and both of us are working from home I’m pretty drat happy about buying a house we knew we could grow into (kid 2 probably happening in a year or two, House is around 3000-3200sq ft but I believe that counts our unfinished basement and attic). Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 04:28
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i like nice words
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Anne Whateley posted:I'm not sure MDF is worth $2k. Or even $1k depends on the quality of the veneer. this thing is heavy as gently caress actionjackson fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 04:30
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https://www.dwr.com/living-media-storage/aura-media-unit/1198.html?lang=en_USquote:Materials: Look at the sides or top. I don't think slabs of walnut 20" wide and 52" long are a thing e: lol that edit Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 04:31
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Anne Whateley posted:prepare for the lecture about how your kids will grow up to hate you and be fascists No specific number of sq ft is going to stop that from happening.
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Sep 14, 2020 04:33
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yeah I fixed my post (though that is not the same one I have, mine is discontinued, but I'll assume the material is the same) I guess you think all MDF and veneers are the same (hint: they are not) what does this have to do with housing anyway? actionjackson fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 04:34
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Some people prefer to pay $1k for MDF shipped halfway around the world, even when their needs could be met by painting a local craigslist piece for $100. Some people prefer to have a dining room, even when their needs could be met by eating on the couch or at a kitchen counter. People's priorities are different, and it doesn't always make them monsters. This thread could use a lot less sneering imo.
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Sep 14, 2020 04:37
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actionjackson posted:yeah I fixed my post (though that is not the same one I have, mine is discontinued, but I'll assume the material is the same) Which isn't to say of course that mdf, or plywood are bad material choices for furniture of course. They have some admirable qualities, and some very expensive antique furniture is veneer over plywood. As to my original point, you have spent much more money than necessary to hold your tv.
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Sep 14, 2020 04:40
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Anne Whateley posted:Some people prefer to pay $1k for MDF shipped halfway around the world, even when their needs could be met by painting a local craigslist piece for $100. this is such misleading bullshit. you call it "MDF" which is different than MDF with a veneer, and even veneers differ in quality and thickness. plain MDF is just like Ikea stuff. not only that, but you talk about a difference of what... 900 dollars? The cost of getting an additional room can be hundreds of thousands of dollars when you consider the principal and interest (and to a lesser extent taxes). They are on completely different levels. Slugworth posted:Heavy furniture is a sign that it is cheap materials, not expensive ones. you completely pulled this out of your rear end. so something that is made of real wood is worse than the super light ikea fiber and particle board? actionjackson fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 04:40
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actionjackson posted:depends on the quality of the veneer. this thing is heavy as gently caress MDF is generally 30-50% heavier than walnut (ikea is mostly not mdf, it's chipboard).
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Sep 14, 2020 04:44
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can't believe I bought this horrible cheap crap from these guys when I could have just made a stand out of fedex boxes for free https://www.treku.com/en/about-us/
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Sep 14, 2020 04:50
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actionjackson posted:you completely pulled this out of your rear end. so something that is made of real wood is worse than the super light ikea fiber and particle board?
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Sep 14, 2020 04:50
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adding >500K to the cost of your house is similar to buying a nice piece of furniture when you think about it
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Sep 14, 2020 04:52
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Let's change the subject, people. Also I'm going to start probing for making GBS threads on other people's design and housing choices in this thread when they aren't actually legitimately terrible, because Anne Whateley has it right: Anne Whateley posted:Some people prefer to pay $1k for MDF shipped halfway around the world, even when their needs could be met by painting a local craigslist piece for $100.
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Sep 14, 2020 04:54
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Furniture chat is exactly my interest right now. Supposing I wanted to design my home’s interior with genuinely nice furniture, where would I go? I honestly don’t know where to start. For example, I want legitimately high quality wood bedroom furniture that’s not just pulp glued together and held together with pot metal fasteners. Searching for “heirloom” furniture just landed me a bunch of semi-local Amish woodworking shops since I’m not so far from Amish country. Maybe that’s the way to go, but I’m leery of spending >$6k on a bed and nightstand just because “Amish” is in the shop’s name. e: damnit. Someone at least post a link to earlier discussion on this?
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Sep 14, 2020 04:55
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Loucks posted:Furniture chat is exactly my interest right now. Supposing I wanted to design my home’s interior with genuinely nice furniture, where would I go? I honestly don’t know where to start. For example, I want legitimately high quality wood bedroom furniture that’s not just pulp glued together and held together with pot metal fasteners. Searching for “heirloom” furniture just landed me a bunch of semi-local Amish woodworking shops since I’m not so far from Amish country. Maybe that’s the way to go, but I’m leery of spending >$6k on a bed and nightstand just because “Amish” is in the shop’s name. for really nice furniture, I'd start with room and board, but it depends on the style you are looking for if you want something modern try blu dot or design within reach For a bedroom set I would expect to spend at least 1500-2000 on a bed, similar for a dresser but it depends on the size maybe like 500-700 for a nightstand copenhagen is a good dresser and nightstand that fits well into whatever https://www.roomandboard.com/catalog/bedroom/dressers/copenhagen-dressers
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Sep 14, 2020 04:58
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Thanks for the suggestions. That estimate is definitely within budget. I had also assumed that solid wood was always the best, but earlier posts suggest otherwise. I have some googling to do, because I’m unlikely to buy and read that comprehensive cabinetmaking book the woodworking thread seems to like.
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Sep 14, 2020 05:35
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the product page says "...veneer OR MDF" which is confusing to me given the quality I assume it's MDF with a nice veneer I thought they actually did 100% wood but I guess not
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Sep 14, 2020 05:38
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corgski posted:Let's change the subject, people. Nobody is dunking on people for having a place that's 'a little bit' bigger or some personal preference or whatever, but there's a point where excess creates legitimately terrible problems, with raw material waste, city planning, environmentalism, land use, area affordability, utility excess, financial stress, social homogeneity and service privatization, and social isolation, which are actual issues and probably have more 'meaningful' impact than having dumb pringles can turrets or putting carpet where you piss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68c2M4r9oQg Loucks posted:Furniture chat is exactly my interest right now. Supposing I wanted to design my home’s interior with genuinely nice furniture, where would I go? I honestly don’t know where to start. For example, I want legitimately high quality wood bedroom furniture that’s not just pulp glued together and held together with pot metal fasteners. Searching for “heirloom” furniture just landed me a bunch of semi-local Amish woodworking shops since I’m not so far from Amish country. Maybe that’s the way to go, but I’m leery of spending >$6k on a bed and nightstand just because “Amish” is in the shop’s name. DWR or Hive, or Roche Bobois if you want something weird Slugworth posted:Worse is a silly term to use, as I already stated. Chipboard, mdf, plywood, are all significantly more stable than solid wood, and thus wonderful to use in furniture. Like, legitimately the superior material in a lot of uses and cheaper. Solid wood has its uses in furniture as well. Feel free to visit the woodworking thread if you fear I'm lying to you. Loucks posted:Thanks for the suggestions. That estimate is definitely within budget. I had also assumed that solid wood was always the best, but earlier posts suggest otherwise. I have some googling to do, because I’m unlikely to buy and read that comprehensive cabinetmaking book the woodworking thread seems to like. the issue is that in the consumer mind, there's either 'solid wood' or 'some cheap piece of poo poo'. there's nothing wrong with MDF, and a lot of people use MDF over solid wood, for practical reasons (doesn't expand/contract/crack, finishes well, easy to make weird shapes) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 14, 2020 05:46
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PRADA SLUT posted:Nobody is dunking on people for having a place that's 'a little bit' bigger quote:or some personal preference or whatever, but there's a point where excess creates legitimately terrible problems, with raw material waste, city planning, environmentalism, land use, area affordability, utility excess, financial stress, social homogeneity and service privatization, and social isolation, which are actual issues and probably have more 'meaningful' impact than having dumb pringles can turrets or putting carpet where you piss: We all agree McMansions and suburban sprawl are ridiculous. Nobody itt is like "hell yes give me the Versailles of Florida." But maybe we can tone down the vitriol for home sizes that are closer to reasonable (and for people who have more than one object on a flat surface, etc.) --- For furniture, I personally usually look on craigslist and take my time finding something that's right for me and my space. If you're willing to wait, you can find great pieces. It also depends on your personal style; if all you want is MCM, a million other people are going to leap on it immediately. Also, a few DIY skills can go a long way, if you're willing to repaint or do simple reupholstering. Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 05:53
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MetaJew posted:For over $3 million dollars, in a state that gets snow, I would expect a paved driveway and a garage. Otherwise, I love this house. There are some disadvantages with that house (which probably rich people dont need to care too much about). (1) Flat roofs are extremely prone to leaking and potentially having maintenance issues longer term. (2) The cooking area does not have a vented hood, which can be pretty terrible for people who cook all of the time. However, that kitchen looks more like a showcase kitchen more than anything (3) The distance in that kitchen seems a bit awkward, from getting from one place to another for cooking (4) Large windows are pretty, but not very good for insulation and also are intensively expensive when dealing with window treatments. Those windows would also eventually change the colors of the flooring. Anyway, I like true modern minimalism so I do think it's pretty, it's just not a house a reasonable person could ever replicate unless they were mega-rich.
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Sep 14, 2020 05:59
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For PRADA SLUT and anyone else interested in continuing this discussion: there is a wonderful thread in D&D for anyone interested in discussing the issues caused by suburban sprawl. Urban Planning Megathread - I'll NIMBY in your YIMBY Let's keep this thread focused on how we're decorating our houses, not the moral implications of having a house.
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Sep 14, 2020 06:01
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Thanks, jerks. Now I want to throw out everything I own and completely redo my place.  This stuff ranges from amazing furniture I need to hilarious things I can only imagine people gift as pranks. It’s genuinely great.
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Sep 14, 2020 06:06
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Also, mdf has some particular structural advantages that lend it to be used very often for certain types of furniture: (a) mdf strongly resists warping. As a result, it is usually a better surface compared to plywood on certain kinds of cabinet doors. (b) On the other hand, mdf doesnt have as much structural stiffness as plywood, so there is a reason why plywood is commonly used cabinetry (solid wood is used too, but is vastly more expensive). So with veneer surfaces or special high-gloss laminates, a lot of modern european furniture makers correctly use MDF instead of either a solid or plywood backing. You're not going to see the wood in the first place, and mdf means that the surfaces when laminated correctly will stand the test of time. However, it makes sense for the structural elements that resist weight (like cabinet guts) to still be plywood, and of course using solid wood without a veneer showcases the grain of the actual wood. Finally, remember there are different levels/qualities of mdf.
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Sep 14, 2020 06:08
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ntan1 posted:Those windows would also eventually change the colors of the flooring. Do you mean the sunlight would change the flooring color? Isn't that only an issue with vinyl flooring? (or maybe that is vinyl) that house is super cool looking, I just wish there wasn't all the excess empty space, like the bedroom and living room could be quite a bit smaller and still have the same effect. I love the bed though and also all the sliding doors instead of traditional ones. ntan1 posted:
and a thicker veneer on top of the mdf is more desirable right? the one on my crate and barrel desk isn't very thick, but isn't super thin either which I'm happy about it given that c/b stuff is relatively cheap. actionjackson fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 06:09
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Wood oxidizes over time, leading its color to become more darker. That house looks like Engineered or real wood and not vinyl.
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Sep 14, 2020 06:20
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ntan1 posted:Wood oxidizes over time, leading its color to become more darker. That house looks like Engineered or real wood and not vinyl. yeah I suppose it couldn't be even LVP given the home price and appearance I have laminate, though I wasn't able to put hardwood in anyway. doesn't have those issues, just have to be careful about moisture. the flooring place did mention though that the one downside to LVP is that it doesn't do well in direct sunlight, and that people that do that typically use UV reducing window treatments. I got a laminate with a 24h moisture protection thing which is a good idea when you have a dog! actionjackson fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 06:25
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Welcome Ü
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Sep 14, 2020 07:08
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edit: sorry, posted before I saw the mod asking us not to continue this discussion. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 10:14
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The Lord Bude posted:edit: sorry, posted before I saw the mod asking us not to continue this discussion. 
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Sep 14, 2020 11:33
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Please note that I'm not intending to continuine the discussion with specific commentary but today's comic is just to on the nose not to post itt
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Sep 14, 2020 12:40
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The Bloop posted:Oh no I would definitely hate to have room for various hobbies without it interfering with the normal living space Yeah, there are people in this thread who think having a bike hooked to your living room wall is cute, rather than bizarre and impractical (it rains) and annoying and indicative of living in a hellhole with no storage space. Also with the WFH forever situation we’re in, anyone who’s not shopping for a separate office space per adult in the house is crazy.
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Sep 14, 2020 13:18
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It really sucks too for a hobby to be an immediate no because it would be annoying to support it in your main living space. My wife took up sewing for a few years and started a little etsy shop. It wasn't for money, it was just something she really enjoyed and it gave her a creative outlet. It turned into needing to store lots of fabric, the sewing machine, many spools of yarn, a big cutting board, and an inventory of baby onesies (onesis, diaper covers, and burp clothes were hear main items). Thankfully we had a guest room that it could all respectfully blend in with without it overtaking anything. When my son is older I hope he gets into music and I myself would love to get into drumming as a midlife crisis. Sure we can take classes outside of the house but it's not the same. Thankfully if we have all of that sequestered into our attic it really doesn't overtake any of our regular space (except for the potential of hearing really lovely tuba playing all night).
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Sep 14, 2020 14:07
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Loucks posted:Furniture chat is exactly my interest right now. Supposing I wanted to design my home’s interior with genuinely nice furniture, where would I go? I honestly don’t know where to start. For example, I want legitimately high quality wood bedroom furniture that’s not just pulp glued together and held together with pot metal fasteners. Searching for “heirloom” furniture just landed me a bunch of semi-local Amish woodworking shops since I’m not so far from Amish country. Maybe that’s the way to go, but I’m leery of spending >$6k on a bed and nightstand just because “Amish” is in the shop’s name. If you want more traditional stuff, Baker Furniture and Henkel Harris make good stuff. Their prices may be outrageous these days, but there's a ton of vintage stuff from both around that should have alot of life left in it. Thomas Moser also makes excellent stuff, but their prices actually are mostly ridiculous. There are a ton of other furniture companies of varying quality that only sell 'to the trade' through interior decorators. Especially for upholstered furniture, you will find the largest selection of fabrics at those sorts of brands. If you're in or near a largish city, there is almost certainly a small woodworker/furnituremaker somewhere near you. They'll probably do excellent, custom work much more reasonably than you might expect. Ask/google around. Nice antique shops/people that fix antiques are decent people to ask and probably know of someone. To your broader question 'what makes quality furniture' there's a few things to consider: Materials What the heck is it made out of? As others have mentioned, there's nothing inherently bad or wrong with veneer-the finest furniture ever made was veneered. Veneering needs to be done well or you start to see the problems that make people hate veneer-chipping on the edges and 'bubbles' or delaminations where the veneer becomes unglued. Keep in mind, there is 250yr old furniture where animal glue was used over solid wood that is still in good condition-we are much better at this now with more stable substrates and better adhesives applied in controlled environments. MDF/particleboard is a great substrate for veneer, but it has 3 big problems-it has very little strength/stiffness, it doesn't hold screws/fasteners well, and it swells tremendously and irreparably if it gets really wet. Furniture designers usually account for the first two problems, but it's on you the owner to make sure it never gets wet. It also tends to crumple or shatter in a way that is very hard to repair if an edge get damaged-plywood or solid wood are much better in this regard. The flat parts of most modern factory furniture is veneered over MDF, but some manufacturers do veneer over plywood. If I wanted furniture to last the rest of my life, I'd pick the plywood over the MDF. 'Solid wood' is a term that doesn't mean a ton IME. It means all exposed surfaces have to be 'solid wood', but as I understand it, plywood (which is sheets of veneer laminated together) counts as 'solid wood' where MDF/particleboard don't. Better furniture will have thick, solid wood banding on the edges/moldings/feet etc where the piece is likely to get banged up over use-solid wood holds up much better to that kind of damage than MDF/particleboard. What species of wood is actually being used is always a question- 'oak finish' or 'mahogany finish' don't mean there is any oak or mahogany in the thing. Another consideration is how 'solid' is the solid wood? Is a 3" square table leg actually made of one piece of wood 3" thick, or is it 3 1" pieces that have been glued together? If you look closely you can usually tell. The one glued up isn't bad, and I glue up legs all the time because thicker timber is hard to get these days, but solid if definitely better. Joinery/Construction/Hardware How is it made, and how is it held together? The very best stuff is almost all wood on wood joints, mortise and tenoned or dovetailed together, with a few metal fasteners as needed. A few high end manufacturers (Henkel Harris, Thos. Moser, small custom furniture shops) but very few factories do. For one, that style of construction isn't well suited to modern materials like plywood/MDF and it is not very well suited to contemporary/MCM designs. In many cases, manufacturers have found perfectly good, nontraditional ways to put together furniture, but not always. My brother's Room & Board dining room chairs, for example, are basically screwed together and that hasn't held up great. This is hard for the consumer to know much about-often times you can't see any of the joinery without deconstructing the piece. Dovetailed drawer sides are usually a good sign, as is quality hardware. Finish How is it finished? Has it all been stained with a dark stain to turn poplar and birch into 'mahogany' or has real mahogany been sensitively finished to allow it's natural grain and figure to show? Does the finish feel smooth and soft to the tough, or is it rough and grainy? Most modern finish are quite durable, but some will hold up better than others-again, this is hard for the consumer to know. If something has been sprayed with a ton of toner/dye to blend different colored woods, a scratch in the finish is going to show the light wood underneath and look pretty awful, where a scratch in a clear finish won't show up nearly as badly. Most importantly-do you like the color/look of the finish?
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Sep 14, 2020 14:29
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Loucks posted:Furniture chat is exactly my interest right now. Supposing I wanted to design my home’s interior with genuinely nice furniture, where would I go? I honestly don’t know where to start. For example, I want legitimately high quality wood bedroom furniture that’s not just pulp glued together and held together with pot metal fasteners. Searching for “heirloom” furniture just landed me a bunch of semi-local Amish woodworking shops since I’m not so far from Amish country. Maybe that’s the way to go, but I’m leery of spending >$6k on a bed and nightstand just because “Amish” is in the shop’s name. Seconding the Room and Board suggestions as a good place to start. As Kaiser said above, it can be hit or mix so definitely read reviews for the soecific item you are interested in. They've brought access to many small-ish domestic furniture companies together under their marketing/design/sales umbrella, and what they sell is what I'd call "high quality" furniture. Also echoing "solid wood =/= quality. A 5-ply lumber-core lumber-banded panel was the height of quality taught to us when I audited furniture manufacturing courses at NCSU in the oughts (audited because I was in industrial design not industrial engineering). Not much has changed as far as what is considered quality to my knowledge, other than the realization that the lumber-core part was probably overkill and quality plywood or even mdf core made an even more stable panel. Just because MDF is listed as a material doesn't immediately mean low-quality (much as "solid-wood" doesn't immediately mean "high-quality" if you look at a lot of palm wood imports etc) What has changed is the continued destruction of this industry domestically, and changing buying habits (more moving plus fast fashion/design trends plus housing taking up a higher % of an often precarious household budget means less $ to big durable goods purchases like furniture). Technology to "fake" quality signifiers have also continued to improve (we bought a sauder cabinet to throw in an alcove to serve as a second pantry at the start of covid, we knew what we were getting, but I was still a bit taken aback by how good the grain simulation has gotten on foil, foil! Not even veneer, and it lines up with the grain perfectly! Of course you can't hide the fact that ot was printed as a loupe will show you the ink dots from the printer). Bit of a ramble but maybe helpful?
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Sep 14, 2020 15:04
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I know that my furniture journey was some form of - Furniture! Good! - Cheap furniture, good? - Particle board and MDF, barf, "solid wood" for me! (mostly buying glued-up strip pine) - What's this "plywood" thing you're talking about? - Wait, why does this "solid wood" keep warping and shifting, nobody told me about that! - Hmm maybe MDF is OK sometimes, still hate particle board Still not a fan of veneers but only because I have a pathological need for my things to be "honest" even when that's not practical.
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Sep 14, 2020 15:19
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Yeah, I won't say "the presence of particle board means this furniture is low-quality garbage" but I also won't come to its defense like I will for Ply and MDF, which both do have their appropriate places where they are equivalent if not superior to other options. Also if your budget is north of 6k for a bed do look into local-ish custom furniture builders, you may be surprised by what you can get that way. (Another conversation entirely is how the Festool Domino has impacted the custom furniture builder market by increasing their efficiency because hoo boy I don't think anyone could've predicted that and anyone who wants to poo poo on domino joinery does not understand wood or adhesives.)
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Sep 14, 2020 15:27
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