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Horrible Corporate Failures: https://twitter.com/arstechnica/status/1306227601854402560?s=20
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Sep 16, 2020 15:19
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angryrobots posted:What changes are they making? I've been trying to get my CDL through work now, because after the deadline our school is requiring a commitment of either 5 full weeks or 13 weekends. Lol gently caress that Salami Surgeon fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 15:53
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CommieGIR posted:Horrible Corporate Failures: When the fine is less than the profits, it's just the cost of doing business. What a load of BS.
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Sep 16, 2020 17:07
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sharkytm posted:When the fine is less than the profits, it's just the cost of doing business. What a load of BS. 
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Sep 16, 2020 17:40
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Speaking of license classes, I know how much people on here hate three wheeled "motorcycles". Saw this, thought it was funny:
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Sep 16, 2020 17:49
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Combat Theory posted:... Every Shift action on any of the 3 Transmissions requires clutch actuation (or a Throttle lift to get the load of the Teeth). ... Manual Trucks absolutely rule and are a ton of fun to drive. Using the shift pattern from the first video, you run through the gears, you're in 5L (paddle up, side switch back). You want to shift to 5H, you unload the throttle/teeth, flip the side selector forward, now you're in 5H. Going to 6L from 5H, I thought it would make most sense to: 5H -> neutral -> change side selector back / to L -> shift into 6L, continue It seems like what the first video says (starts at ~5:40), and it looks like he does in the second video, is actually: 5H -> change side selector back / to L -> neutral -> shift into 6L, continue Is that right? I think that means the clutch has to stay in from the moment the side selector is moved until release in 6L. Wouldn't it be easier (both practically and mechanically) to do the first method? Does it just not matter? I'm trying to think through the actual mechanics, and I know on a (non-truck, standard automotive) manual, the input shaft is moving with the engine even with the clutch depressed. If this is a second (or third) transmission behind the "normal" transmission, then the input shaft of this would be linked to the output of that transmission, which is undriven at any point the clutch is in. So mechanically, maybe not problematic, but man, what happens if you let the clutch out in 5L when you meant to throw it in 6L? Are there safeguards for this?
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Sep 16, 2020 17:57
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AFewBricksShy posted:I went to Ireland last year and I was afraid to rent a manual because while I drive one every day, I thought that being on the opposite side of the road and also having to learn to shift with my left hand would be too much to process. My father in law rented a manual in Ireland because he had driven one 50 years ago, and he immediately burned out the clutch and was stranded for a few hours.
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Sep 16, 2020 18:03
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Krakkles posted:snip Well, first off, he never touched the clutch pedal after he started rolling. Second, yeah he popped both switches for 6L in 5H, before he shifted, but just because the switch is flipped doesn't mean anything happens. Range and split changes don't actually get applied until you flip the switch and let off the throttle, so it's okay to go ahead and flip them before you shift as long as you're still accelerating. e. I think I see where you're going here. There is no hard connection between the switches and the transmission, they're air powered. It's okay to put air against the internal selectors - say, the range selector between 4-5 - because there is still greater mechanical pressure holding you in the bottom range. Let off the throttle, the mechanical pressure reduces, and now air pressure can go ahead and move the range selector. You're not using the clutch, you're rev matching and floating gears, so it's hard to mis-select your gear - it just physically impossible for the shifter to go into a gear it's not rev-matched to, at least without grinding gears to let you know you hosed up. Is it possible to do something really stupid, like hit the range select by accident and using the clutch, go into 4H when you meant to go into 8L? It's called a money shift, you can do it in any manual, and you will be picking pieces of broken transmission up off the road (or worse, broken engine) if you don't catch yourself in time. rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 18:10
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rndmnmbr posted:Well, first off, he never touched the clutch pedal after he started rolling. Second, yeah he popped both switches for 6L in 5H, before he shifted, but just because the switch is flipped doesn't mean anything happens. Range and split changes don't actually get applied until you flip the switch and let off the throttle, so it's okay to go ahead and flip them before you shift as long as you're still accelerating. How did this work 50 years ago? (Or were there just less gears before computers?)
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Sep 16, 2020 18:13
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Krakkles posted:Interesting! I wonder how that works - I imagine the switch tells a computer you'd like to shift, the computer waits for the right conditions then shifts? 50 years ago, there were more sticks, as I recall. But even if not, as rndmnmbr notes, the air- or electric-shifter splitter and range boxes won't shift while there is still torque applied. There's too much mechanical force. It's not really the computer doing it, it's physics. edit: At least, that's how I understood it.
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Sep 16, 2020 18:43
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Krakkles posted:Alright, I think I've got a question. I watched both videos, and the first one left me thinking something with the side switch was unclear, and the second video seemed to confirm that it doesn't work the way I expect, but now I'm not sure. Krakkles posted:Interesting! I wonder how that works - I imagine the switch tells a computer you'd like to shift, the computer waits for the right conditions then shifts? The Range and Split Switches are Pre-Selectors. You just tell the Transmission that you "want" to have that happening whenever the load comes off the powertrain. I dont think the Transmission actually has to know the load condition even. it just tries to move the Gears but because you are under load, the engangement Dogs (through their back cut) are pulled into each other and the force of the Shift actuator is not enough to move them out of engagement. Very much like a motorcycle transmission. When you remove the load from the transmission the Actuator can overcome the force holding the Dogs together and moves them out of engagment and into another gear. remeber that almost everything on a truck is air pressure actuated so i wouldnt wonder if the switches just flip some pressure valves that put the shift actuators under preload so that they will operate a change whenever the power comes off the transmission line.
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Sep 16, 2020 18:44
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Combat Theory posted:remeber that almost everything on a truck is air pressure actuated so i wouldnt wonder if the switches just flip some pressure valves that put the shift actuators under preload so that they will operate a change whenever the power comes off the transmission line. The old Allison Super10 I used to drive didn't have a range selector, but it did have a mechanical cable for the splitter. Which connected to a spring internally, IIRC, giving the same effect. Also went 1L-1H, 2L-2H, 3L-3H, then just to gently caress with your head, 4L-5L-4H-5H.
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Sep 16, 2020 18:55
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Krakkles posted:Interesting! I wonder how that works - I imagine the switch tells a computer you'd like to shift, the computer waits for the right conditions then shifts? You had a second stick which is your compound box. You can consider range selection switches working as the second shifter. Old Macks like the U/R series are famous for having twin sticks. You'd have 4-5 + reverse in the primary box and 3-4 in your compound. You will be working both to get the loaded vehicle up to speed. They're a ton of fun to drive. The Gillig I had a few years ago was a 15 speed behind a woefully gutless smallcam Cummins.
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Sep 16, 2020 18:58
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cursedshitbox posted:You had a second stick which is your compound box. You can consider range selection switches working as the second shifter. Old Macks like the U/R series are famous for having twin sticks. You'd have 4-5 + reverse in the primary box and 3-4 in your compound. You will be working both to get the loaded vehicle up to speed. They're a ton of fun to drive. Sticking your arm through the steering wheel so you can work both shifters at the same time and still steer. Also I would trade you gutless smallcam for an even more gutless 366 Chevy big block. Those GM deuce-and-a-halfs were real pieces of work, especially when the owner did fuckall maintenance.
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Sep 16, 2020 19:03
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Then you get into drag cars where some people have a transmission where each gear has its own lever and you just yank each one as you go down the drag strip.
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Sep 16, 2020 19:07
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This is art. Clutch for stop and go only, precise use of the throttle and a power band that's like 700rpms https://youtu.be/G-aDqAWkZHQ
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Sep 16, 2020 20:17
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RE: the eaton 18 speed, does anyone know why the US prefers manual trucks but auto cars, and europe vice versa? as a european heavy diesel tech all ive seen for the last 10 years are automated manuals, and synchronised manuals were the norm for 20 years prior to that. I can't think of an advantage of a crash manual in a heavy truck over an automated manual, aside from perhaps reduced wear which would be heavily driver dependent. The ones i see everyday (volvos) only have synchros on the split and range change gears, aside from that the truck handles the rev matching and the box has an air operated countershaft brake built in. It'll block shift if it needs to, it'll pull away in 5th if the suspension says its lightly loaded and you can even get it with a dual clutch which literally shifts as fast as a VW DSG.
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Sep 16, 2020 20:28
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shy boy from chess club posted:This is art. Clutch for stop and go only, precise use of the throttle and a power band that's like 700rpms One of my personal favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2zwd1iazvU warcake posted:RE: the eaton 18 speed, does anyone know why the US prefers manual trucks but auto cars, and europe vice versa? Semi autos and fully automatics are becoming the norm here in trucking. They've been a thing in buses for 40 years now.
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Sep 16, 2020 21:40
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warcake posted:RE: the eaton 18 speed, does anyone know why the US prefers manual trucks but auto cars, and europe vice versa? For US auto cars, it's probably "I can't text my friends while I clutch & shift on the freeway"
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Sep 16, 2020 21:45
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https://i.imgur.com/P1emKo9.mp4
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Sep 16, 2020 21:59
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cursedshitbox posted:One of my personal favorites: That was my ring tone on my old phone, haha. It's even better, the sound, gauges, cow skull hanging from the mirror and the Johnny Cash shift knob
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Sep 16, 2020 22:04
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warcake posted:RE: the eaton 18 speed, does anyone know why the US prefers manual trucks but auto cars, and europe vice versa? What's the average mileage of a European truck? In the US, a million miles is just getting time for the first in-frame overhaul, and older trucks hit the secondhand market until they are literally so decrepit they cannot function anymore. And then they'll get bought for parts to keep slightly less decrepit trucks running. That, and I think there's a lot of nostalgia in trucking circles for the trucking culture of the '70s, along with a strong concept that automatics are failure-prone, fuel-inefficient, and something for weak drivers without skills. This is something that is thankfully fading. My truck-company owning uncle prefers manuals because he can drop, rebuild, and re-stab a manual in two days, whereas an automatic is a black-box to him that just costs money.
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Sep 16, 2020 22:16
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Darchangel posted:50 years ago, there were more sticks, as I recall. But even if not, as rndmnmbr notes, the air- or electric-shifter splitter and range boxes won't shift while there is still torque applied. There's too much mechanical force. It's not really the computer doing it, it's physics. You can watch our very own goon Used Sunlight Sales working an old Peterbuilt dump like a maestro. Bonus Mad Max sidekick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrbvQLxCjLM PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Sep 17, 2020 |
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Sep 17, 2020 02:21
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I was super irritated just watching the beginning of that, but the ending made it all worth it
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Sep 17, 2020 07:42
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Cojawfee posted:Then you get into drag cars where some people have a transmission where each gear has its own lever and you just yank each one as you go down the drag strip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6hLyWO2noo 
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Sep 17, 2020 12:38
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Cojawfee posted:Then you get into drag cars where some people have a transmission where each gear has its own lever and you just yank each one as you go down the drag strip. Then when you get into top fuel it's not even shifting, its just progressively applying more clutch grabbing force in the clutch pack as the engine holds WOT. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/inside-fuel-cars-3500f-slider-clutch/ toplitzin fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Sep 17, 2020 |
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Sep 17, 2020 13:28
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cursedshitbox posted:One of my personal favorites: Twin stick...pffft. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEYaTvvq4g
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Sep 17, 2020 14:01
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C-Bangin' it 
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Holy moley this is something.
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Sep 17, 2020 15:11
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Why is it set up to push the lever instead of pulling? Everyone knows that pulling the lever down to go faster is more fun.
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Sep 17, 2020 15:13
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GM had a long history of using Hurst shifters as oem, probably starting with the GTO in 1964. Olds took it a slight step further by naming a few cars "Hurst/Olds" as a special package. The Lightning Rod shifter was designed to emulate a Lenco transmission that was used in Pro Stock drag racing at the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zx54zjDU4s&t=136s xzzy posted:Why is it set up to push the lever instead of pulling? Exactly!
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Sep 17, 2020 17:35
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Darchangel posted:50 years ago, there were more sticks, as I recall. But even if not, as rndmnmbr notes, the air- or electric-shifter splitter and range boxes won't shift while there is still torque applied. There's too much mechanical force. It's not really the computer doing it, it's physics. Yeah you can experience this yourself. Just try to pull the shifter out of 3rd or whatever while you're accelerating. It's not coming out. Then let off, and it pops out of gear. Driving something like a manual sequential dog box that's a good technique. Preload the lever so when you lift or it the rev limiter it shifts to the next gear (and yes I've actually driven one). You can even use a strain gauge on the shifter so that when you pull hard enough it cuts throttle and lets you shift. jamal fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Sep 17, 2020 |
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Sep 17, 2020 17:59
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Sep 17, 2020 19:12
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I don’t know my wife likes old Fieros and I like having an off-road capable truck. Seems like a great choice for us!
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Sep 17, 2020 19:18
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Hermaphrodite posted:GM had a long history of using Hurst shifters as oem, probably starting with the GTO in 1964. Olds took it a slight step further by naming a few cars "Hurst/Olds" as a special package. The Lightning Rod shifter was designed to emulate a Lenco transmission that was used in Pro Stock drag racing at the time: Holy poo poo, the way all 3 shifters blast backwards during launch. 
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Sep 17, 2020 20:22
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Wrong thread JFC. It's even cleanly done. https://www.thedrive.com/news/29642/this-lifted-pontiac-fiero-off-roader-is-part-chevy-blazer-part-faux-ferrari-and-costs-9500
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Sep 17, 2020 21:50
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jamal posted:Yeah you can experience this yourself. Just try to pull the shifter out of 3rd or whatever while you're accelerating. It's not coming out. Then let off, and it pops out of gear. This is really easy on a motorcycle too. Apparently it's a common technique, but I discovered it by accident one day. Applied a little upward pressure and rolled off the throttle, and it slid right up into the next gear without any clutch. You can do it all day long on a bike apparently, as long as you don't push too hard with the shifter pressure. It'll suck into gear on it's own as you unload the trans.
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Sep 17, 2020 22:08
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You can get a "quick shift" kit for motorcycles too, that cuts fuel at the ECU when it detects pressure on the shifter, slipping the throttle and letting the transmission upshift, I think it works in the other direction too, adding throttle on downshifts. Sequential transmissions are cool as poo poo, hilariously simple too, I think the only reason they're not used in cars is they'd be too bulky?
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Sep 17, 2020 22:27
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They aren't bulky. If you look at the insides of a Quaife sequential you will see a similar setup to motorcycles in that a drum operates the shift forks, rather than an X-Y kinda setup that a normal H pattern uses. I would think that it is because they are a lot less convenient / efficient to use in that you need to go through every gear to move up / down / into reverse.
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Sep 17, 2020 23:05
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Elviscat posted:
Def not too bulky. You can OTOH get small(ish) kits to change a H-pattern to sequential and then of course the flappy paddle kits from there..... They aint cheap tho. But then again, A manual flappy paddle gearbox with clutchless flatshift is the ultimate for performance so.... why not if you got he cash?
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Sep 18, 2020 00:09
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There are a few reasons. Sequential transmissions need a lot of slack between the dogs which means that you'll have hefty chonk chonk noise when you drive around without precise throttle control (as the average car driver does) If you go with a carbon copy of a motorcycle transmission you not only lose the synchro rings, but also the synchro bodies which is what you usually move with the shifter forks. Because the synchro bodies sit between the gears and are not geared themselves you don't have radial or axial gear forces on the synchro bodies, except from the synchro mesh itself. In a sequential transmission you do not have synchro bodies instead you move idler gears around that actually have gearing. This way you need less space and weight in the transmission. Problem is that now you can only use straight cut gears because if you helical cut the idlers they will be pulled in and out of engagement by the axial component of the tooth force. There's also a point about driver adaptability. With every transmission and engine combination (so every combination of inertia in the transmission and on the input side) there is a perfect shift that goes with the minimal effort of synchronization energy I nthe transmission and minimal jerk when the clutch is engaged again. A lot of drivers will never develop a feel for this or the car simply doesn't allow engine speed and throttle manipulation that is fast and accurate enough to achieve a perfect shift (sad....) in either case with a synchronized transmission you do not care because thst error is ironed out by the synchronizes whereas in a dog engagement transmission there really is only one good shift and it has to be executed positively and with a certain force. The whole clicky apparatus in a motorcycle transmission is there to ensure that (and keep the transmission in gear if you ease off the throttle) but it means you can only shift with at least the force to overcome the clicky apparatus now. All in all the modern car and the modern driver don't really function with a dog box. The drivers are too used to be abled to do things wrong and the cars are way too sloppy in engine dynamics to enable the fine control necessary to shift a dog box well. E: by the way every "must" of a dog engagement transmission is a "can" of a synchronized transmission and usually a sign of good behavior with the gearbox. You must find the perfect shift in an dog box. You can find the perfect shift in a synchronized transmission. You must Rev match in a dog box with upshift timing and double clutching and heel and toe, you can do that in a synchronized transmission and it will work even better than just leaving that job to the synchro rings. Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Sep 18, 2020 |
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Sep 18, 2020 09:41
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