|
Wingnut Ninja posted:So here's a thing: something that's always kind of bugged me is that I don't really buy the inevitable jump from "taking over Arrakis" to "galactic jihad". For the better part of two whole books Paul keeps going on about woe is me, there's no possible way to stop this jihad, nope, nothing I can do, fire up the death squads. But it does precious little to actually show why this is; we see Fremen fired up to overthrow the Harkonnens at the end of Dune in a way that makes Paul nervous, but all of the Fremen prophecy and mythology we see revolves around fighting off oppressors and making Arrakis a better place, not so much "and then when that's done go on and take over the galaxy". It's not implausible, certainly, but it definitely doesn't feel like it should be the only path. Shooting an Elephant by George Orwell seems relevant reading. quote:I had no intention of shooting the elephant – I had merely sent for the rifle to defend myself if necessary – and it is always unnerving to have a crowd following you.
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 03:25 |
|
|
# ? Jun 8, 2024 08:11 |
|
Why doesn't the goddamn box of pain have a fancy name like the Gom Jabbar does?
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 03:26 |
|
Ror posted:Why doesn't the goddamn box of pain have a fancy name like the Gom Jabbar does? It's called "greg"
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 04:14 |
|
Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Shooting an Elephant by George Orwell seems relevant reading. I buy that for taking over Arrakis, since that was a big part of the prophecy/expectation for Paul. It's afterwards where they're sitting around watching Shaddam being stuffed back onto his ship in disgrace, and say "well, I guess now we should go rape the universe" that seems like a stretch. Like it's missing a few intermediate steps showing them develop in that direction.
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 04:47 |
|
Wingnut Ninja posted:I buy that for taking over Arrakis, since that was a big part of the prophecy/expectation for Paul. It's afterwards where they're sitting around watching Shaddam being stuffed back onto his ship in disgrace, and say "well, I guess now we should go rape the universe" that seems like a stretch. Like it's missing a few intermediate steps showing them develop in that direction. The Fremen were already fully developed in that respect before Paul even arrived on Arrakis, by the BG Missionaria Protectiva manipulating their religion and by the general circumstances of the Imperial feudal society. Humanity is stagnant and growing restless and building towards a gigantic genetic upheaval, the "race consciousness" that Paul can detect. quote:"I don’t understand you, Paul,” his mother said. The jihad is not a logical, reasoned decision on the part of Muad'dib's followers. They could never choose to stay peacefully on Arrakis in the same way Paul could never choose to not be prescient after ingesting the spice and awakening his abilities. The jihad is the inevitable consequence of the Fremen people falling into the hands of a Hero, and if it didn't happen with Paul and the Fremen on Arrakis then it would have happened somewhere else. The in-universe justification is that humanity as a race must soon explode into jihad or else die out.
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 05:37 |
|
Koopa Kid posted:He’s implied to be a failed branch of the Kwisatz Haderach program iirc, there’s a branch of time Paul sees where Fenrig kills him but he ultimately recognizes Paul’s legitimacy and does nothing. more precisely he can't forsee Fenrig at all, and intuits from this that 1) Fenrig was a side-result of the program, and 2) can absolutely kill him
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 06:27 |
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:this is the best dune video ever made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B6jgkcANRE
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 06:32 |
|
The Missionaria Protectiva is the military industrial complex bankrolling marvel movies
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 06:43 |
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:this is the best dune video ever made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B6jgkcANRE i swear chalamet's delivery of 'what's in the box' is based on the delivery in this video
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 06:45 |
|
and yeah paul isn't a good person and there's an element of cowardice in why the jihad comes about. messiah is pretty much mandatory, in that sense. 'if not me, then someone else would start the jihad'
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 06:47 |
|
The Fremen are sitting on top of the only place for Spice production. The other powers can only resist so much. Paul has visions of him dying and the Fremen still going jihad without him. It’s basically damage minimization after a certain point.
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 10:30 |
|
the dune redub is probably my favourite video ever. i have watched it hundreds of times. every line of it is etched on my soul.
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 10:47 |
|
There is a point that hasn't been brought up in this conversation about the jihad. Paul may be the duke of House Atreides, he may be the Padishah Emperor of the Galactic Imperium, he may be the leader of the Fedaykin, he may be the Lisan Al Gaib; but he is very emphatically not the "king" of the Fremen. That is what the whole business with not calling out Stilgar was about. Paul rules Arrakis in his capacity as an Imperial aristocrat; he is the leader of a force of elite fighting men and is considered a prophet by the Fremen, and these give him a position of honor and influence in their society; but the Fremen themselves are still very much under the rule of their Naibs. And now that the stranglehold of Imperial and Guild control has been broken, the Fremen are set loose over the Empire. And they are pissed, remember that they had been murdered, enslaved and abused beyond belief for thousands of years before ultimately being sent to colonize a hell world and extract a substance prized extremely highly in imperial society, to the point that the usual Fremen mantra is "We will never forgive and we will never forget." So if a group of Naibs decide to use their tribes' spice to book passage to an off-world planet and "sterilize" it, Paul cannot order them to stop. If the entire Fremen nation wants revenge on the society that treated their people like animals for millenia, he cannot stop them, not without being abandoned by his warriors and everyone but his closest friends (and probably being chopped to pieces himself.) The only thing he can do is place himself with all his abilities and his people at the head of this movement and hope that he can gently steer it away from its most destructive forms. And that is his tragedy as a Hero.
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 11:09 |
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:this is the best dune video ever made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B6jgkcANRE
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 11:45 |
|
Ingmar terdman posted:I'm a victim of circumstance said the human computer/ninja/feudal heir Welcome, traveller, to my hall of giant veiny cocks.
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 15:13 |
|
I hope the D U N C credits are this good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRzVFlZxBv4
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 15:34 |
|
yaffle posted:Welcome, traveller, to my hall of giant veiny cocks. I'd hate to be the guy who dusts all these cocks!
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 15:37 |
|
Buddy, they don't even let me gently caress the huge cock columns (cocklumns)
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 16:34 |
|
He tried changing the future, but how many time did you see a Fremen call him Paul-Muad'Dib? He spent a decade trying to escape/locking in his vision.
|
# ? Sep 20, 2020 16:39 |
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:this is the best dune video ever made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B6jgkcANRE I've had a really, really awful week but "Welcome to Larry Town" has made everything okay again
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 01:23 |
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:You mean...Paul? Dude, spoilers!
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 01:26 |
Toon... The animated planet
|
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 01:31 |
|
An animatrix type thing for dune would probably be the best bet for getting some god emperor on the screen honestly. Or hell, like those BR2049 shorts
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 02:05 |
|
Monkeys paw curls and you get a Lord Cybertrex anime
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 03:21 |
|
The Aeon Flux guy Peter Chung could do a pretty cool Dune series I bet.
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 03:29 |
|
So... I finished God Emperor on Saturday and I'm still kind of digesting it but I definitely agree it's one of the better books. It's the first one (to my eye) that feels like Frank just said, "Screw it, I don't need to include anymore adventure stuff, I can just write my contemplative sci-fi about big ideas." Like, it reminded me a bit of Conrad's Heart of Darkness in that, sure there's a definite "journey" happening, but it's slow and there's lots of time to ruminate on the meaning of it all. It even feels a little like Duncan represents that old attitude of, "There needs to be manly-man action on every page! If there isn't, I'm gonna get restless and start climbing the walls (literally)!" I also agree with some other people in the thread that things get weirdly, very horny towards the end. The duality between Leto II and Hwi vs. Dunc and Siona was expected, Nayla's exposition was... I'm not sure what to do with that yet. I suppose like Moneo's final revelation, it was partly about her pushing against a lifetime of conditioning that The God Emperor Is Everything And Always Right. In her case, it was her own subconscious desires pushing against it where as Leto had to hammer on Moneo with, "COME ON, dude! Learn to think for yourself!" She just never quite got to the point of enlightenment, and I gotta say I was a little shocked by Dunc's response to her final act. When thinking about this cinematically, I have no idea how you'd make GE into a film that wasn't long and slow and panned by critics for crawling up its own rear end. Going back to Heart of Darkness, it *would* need to probably be an artsy Apocalypse Now affair. It occurred to me while watching the new Dune cast react to the reveal of the trailer that it didn't sound like any of them knew what happens beyond the first book, because they all had the attitude of, "Dune is about a young man finding his purpose and leading a people to freedom!" and none of them realized this is very much *not* the point of the story. That, in turn, got me thinking that Dune is really the only novel that has anything close to a "happy" ending where the "good guys win". Every subsequent book undoes that and kind of furthers the idea that there are no "good" or "bad" endings, only "change" but if you want to keep things binary then they definitely end on a downer for most if not all of the characters. I'm eager to see where things go in Heretics and Chapterhouse, but it might be a little while before I jump into those. FWIW, I really like Devon Cady-Lee's version of Leto II. It looks like Cady-Lee is a concept artist working for Warner Bros. so... maybe there's hope for a film yet!
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 17:40 |
|
Lmao he's such a goon
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 17:42 |
|
Colonel Cancer posted:Lmao he's such a goon
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 18:20 |
|
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 18:23 |
trapped in the Fremen Zone once more.
|
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 18:48 |
|
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 18:52 |
|
Lmao
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 19:03 |
|
Is Hwi Black?
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 19:10 |
|
niethan posted:Is Hwi Black? That was my impression, but fan art seems to conveniently ignore that...
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 19:21 |
|
Almost everyone I've talked to seems to think that Hwi's skin color is discussed but I really don't remember the book saying one way or another.
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 19:48 |
|
phasmid posted:Almost everyone I've talked to seems to think that Hwi's skin color is discussed but I really don't remember the book saying one way or another. At their first meeting: quote:His first view of Hwi Noree revealed a remarkable likeness to her Uncle Malky, but her grave movements and the calmness of her stride were equally remarkable in their difference from Malky. She did have that dark skin, though, the oval face with its regular features. Placid brown eyes stared back at Leto. And where Malky's hair had been gray, hers was a luminous brown. In a later meeting, she's described as having braided her hair so I figured that reinforced my assumption.
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 19:56 |
|
But she wasn’t black as if there was no intermingling with lighter skinned people in her lineage, that’s for sure.
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 20:33 |
|
Well I'll shut up then. Hah. I guess I was recalling one friend of mine who said she was definitely Asian. When I asked what part of Arrakis is Asia he admitted he just had a thing for Asian women? IDK nerds are weird.
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 20:36 |
|
phasmid posted:Well I'll shut up then. Hah. I guess I was recalling one friend of mine who said she was definitely Asian. When I asked what part of Arrakis is Asia he admitted he just had a thing for Asian women? IDK nerds are weird. If you pointed a gun at my head and demanded to know where the name "Hwi" originated, I'd probably say Asia, but not be overly surprised if I was wrong.
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 22:08 |
|
|
# ? Jun 8, 2024 08:11 |
|
Stryder posted:FWIW, I really like Devon Cady-Lee's version of Leto II. It looks like Cady-Lee is a concept artist working for Warner Bros. so... maybe there's hope for a film yet! That's the second best version.
|
# ? Sep 21, 2020 22:13 |