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Danger - Octopus!
Apr 20, 2008


Nap Ghost

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Which games are the best at letting you do multiple quests at once, letting you pick up mcguffins in advance, and allows you to shortcut trouble by planning in advance? (E.g. In MGSV you can skip huge chunks of traveling in some missions by hiding in a box at a delivery point.)

What games are the opposite? What games forbid you do to more than one task at once, stress that you must do everything in order, and disallow any planning or player-driven ingenuity?

Assassin's Creed Odyssey has this, to an extent. You can kill targets for sidequests you don't have yet while you're in the middle of other things (and just get the quest reward or tell the questgiver you've already done it when you meet them), and you can kill some of the cultists in the open world without having identified them yet.

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Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

RareAcumen posted:

Same, but shopping. If I cant get stuff delivered then I should be at least able to order ahead and have it ready to go when I walk in.

FFXV does this in the silliest way possible. You have cell phones (which can only be used by the game for cutscenes). You also have a car that you can drive around, and which you use to fast travel once you've visited a site once.
For some reason they set it up so you can use your car as a shop. You can buy a baseline assortment of potions and equipment when in your car but not when roaming the overworld. No in-world explanation is provided for how this works.

There are a lot of bullshit mechanics in that game and most are added for quality of life. The time travel dog, for instance, exists because otherwise you might get stuck at a certain boss and unable to grind for levels to defeat him, because you're in an area that doesn't allow backtracking out to the open world. So, at any save point you are able to whistle for the dog and he will come and magically transport you back into the open world, supposedly to an earlier point in time, but you can travel back (into the future) and keep your quest progress, exp and items... It's just stupid. They painted themselves in a corner with "no we can't allow the player to leave, it wouldn't make sense for the plot" and "no the enemies can't scale with level, that's not how we do it in FF games" and this must have been their best idea for fixing it.

Hippie Hedgehog has a new favorite as of 14:59 on Sep 21, 2020

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


I could have used that time-travel dog at some point in the Witcher 3.

RE3: It feels kind of abrupt to have the big lad show up in the first five minutes. I hear this game isn't very long so it really wouldn't hurt to stall a bit.

Inspector Gesicht has a new favorite as of 14:21 on Sep 21, 2020

SubNat
Nov 27, 2008

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

The time travel dog, for instance, exists because otherwise you might get stuck at a certain boss and unable to grind for levels to defeat him,

Time travel dog: Heeeeeey
Time travel dog: Y'know, if you use this expensive hotel behind me, you'll get a x2 XP bonus when you rest, and you'll get a lot of levels.
Time travel dog: So, how about it? Don't you feel like you should grind out all the sidequests in the previous act, so that you can make use of this?
Time travel dog: bark bark

I believe that was when I dropped out of the game the first go at it.
It really didn't help how utterly insanely loving slow loading was on the ps4pro either.
When I checked in again with the game on my pc later on the entire experience was just so so much better due to quick, snippy loads.
Which made it actually practical to use the fast travel system.

e: (For those unaware, FFXV had a system where you'd just collect XP as normal, but the XP only got applied, and people levelled up when you rested somewhere. And some inns, hotels, etc granted a XP modifier on top of everything.
Combine this with foods that give xp boosts, and you could easily rack up a ton of XP by doing a lot of battles and quests while under XP boosts, and then get a huge multiplier on top of that again when resting.
Basically you ended up with 3 different mechanics all leading you into using the dog to grind through the first act of the game.)

SubNat has a new favorite as of 15:24 on Sep 21, 2020

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

The only thing I dislike about FF7R so far is that there doesn't seem to be a way to quickly apply a bunch of potions to an injured character outside of battle. Maybe it's possible through the pause menu or something?

Robert J. Omb
Dec 1, 2005
The 'J' stands for 'AAARRGH!'

JackSplater posted:

The Xbox 360 had a profile-wide Settings page that would attempt to set the default of any game you played to what you had set there. I don't remember all the settings, but I know two of them were Look Inversion and Subtitles.

I don't think the Xbox One had that feature, though.

Another (petty, little, personal) issue I have with XBox One over its predecessor how you swap batteries in the controller.

The new one is a standard slide cover, but the 360 controller let you slap those bad boys in like a clip into a gun.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

SubNat posted:

e: (For those unaware, FFXV had a system where you'd just collect XP as normal, but the XP only got applied, and people levelled up when you rested somewhere. And some inns, hotels, etc granted a XP modifier on top of everything.
Combine this with foods that give xp boosts, and you could easily rack up a ton of XP by doing a lot of battles and quests while under XP boosts, and then get a huge multiplier on top of that again when resting.
Basically you ended up with 3 different mechanics all leading you into using the dog to grind through the first act of the game.)

Where did the whole "you only level up when you sleep" mechanic come from? It's also in such seminal hits as Oblivion and Moraff's Dungeons of the Unforgiven.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

The Moon Monster posted:

Where did the whole "you only level up when you sleep" mechanic come from? It's also in such seminal hits as Oblivion and Moraff's Dungeons of the Unforgiven.
It's in a bunch of tabletop games

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

food court bailiff posted:

The only thing I dislike about FF7R so far is that there doesn't seem to be a way to quickly apply a bunch of potions to an injured character outside of battle. Maybe it's possible through the pause menu or something?

If you have the "menu remember" option turned on (forget what's it called) it will go faster.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

It's in a bunch of tabletop games

I guess it makes sense in that context so you don't have to stop in the middle of a dungeon for Dave to painstakingly level up his goblin flautist.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.
Didn't FF15 have a similar version of the FF14 problem where the original development was taking way too long and the project leads had really stupid ideas so Square Enix had to bring in different leadership to slap together something decent at the last minute?

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




The Silver Mine in AssCreed: Odyssey is no fun at all. You have to fight enemies in a dark and cramped place and if you're not carefull the people who work in the mines (who you're supposed to liberate) will aggro on you.

tight aspirations
Jul 13, 2009

I didn't like the difficulty setting which implied you'd have to follow clues and puzzle out where event/person is, but in reality you just go to the point of interest in n/s/e/w [Specified Region].

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.
Apparently only 7.1% of Hades players have the achievement for petting Cerberus 10 times and that's just completely loving unacceptable.

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



1stGear posted:

Didn't FF15 have a similar version of the FF14 problem where the original development was taking way too long and the project leads had really stupid ideas so Square Enix had to bring in different leadership to slap together something decent at the last minute?

Kind of. FF15 was originally an FF13 spinoff.

When they announced FF13 they announced it as part of a huge thing called the FABULA NOVA CRYSTALLIS project, which would consist of three games: FF13, FF Agito 13, and FF Versus 13. They were supposed to be linked by a common mythos and have similar themes and elements, buuut development was taking way too long on the whole thing so everything got changed up.

FF13 got released, wasn't well liked, and ended up with two completely different sequels of it's own. FF Agito 13 ended up becoming FF Type-0 which got quickly forgotten.

FF Versus 13 ended up becoming FF15 and had basically everything changed from the original plans...and yet they still tried to make it into it's own universe like with FF13, with a movie and anime and poo poo.

...and now, it looks like the original plans for FF Versus 13 are being reused/retold as part of the Kingdom Hearts series, which is just kind of :psyduck:.

Modern Final Fantasy is kind of a goddamn mess.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

tight aspirations posted:

I didn't like the difficulty setting which implied you'd have to follow clues and puzzle out where event/person is, but in reality you just go to the point of interest in n/s/e/w [Specified Region].

Yeah like I thought it would be Morrowind-style follow-the-directions but it basically boils down to every quest being:

"Look at [region name], find [landmark] in region, and it's [direction] of that."

Like, every single one. There's no 'follow the path from this location and turn left' or, really, literally any variation to that basic formula.

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)
"Use your magical bird you dingus"

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




Morpheus posted:

Yeah like I thought it would be Morrowind-style follow-the-directions but it basically boils down to every quest being:

"Look at [region name], find [landmark] in region, and it's [direction] of that."

Like, every single one. There's no 'follow the path from this location and turn left' or, really, literally any variation to that basic formula.

One thing that's dragging down the AssCreed games is that there's no sense of exploration. In RDR2 you could just wander around in the world and you would see something interesting or have a cool random encounter. In the AssCreed games nothing really happens between the points of interest. Odyssey also have legendary animals like RDR2 but you don't really get anything out of it except killing a larger than usual lion. I still like the games though, I just wish I had played them before RDR2.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

food court bailiff posted:

The only thing I dislike about FF7R so far is that there doesn't seem to be a way to quickly apply a bunch of potions to an injured character outside of battle. Maybe it's possible through the pause menu or something?

Hold I think R1 while using a potion or healing spell. It'll let you hit X again to use another without closing the menu.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

Vandar posted:

Kind of. FF15 was originally an FF13 spinoff.

When they announced FF13 they announced it as part of a huge thing called the FABULA NOVA CRYSTALLIS project, which would consist of three games: FF13, FF Agito 13, and FF Versus 13. They were supposed to be linked by a common mythos and have similar themes and elements, buuut development was taking way too long on the whole thing so everything got changed up.

FF13 got released, wasn't well liked, and ended up with two completely different sequels of it's own. FF Agito 13 ended up becoming FF Type-0 which got quickly forgotten.

FF Versus 13 ended up becoming FF15 and had basically everything changed from the original plans...and yet they still tried to make it into it's own universe like with FF13, with a movie and anime and poo poo.

...and now, it looks like the original plans for FF Versus 13 are being reused/retold as part of the Kingdom Hearts series, which is just kind of :psyduck:.

Modern Final Fantasy is kind of a goddamn mess.

The sheer dysfunction of Square Enix is kinda fascinating to me. They're a huge publisher, they own the two undisputed king franchises of the JRPG world, but every major FF-related thing since the merger has been prone to all sorts of chaos. I admire that the franchise keeps trying new things, but planning seems to be an issue.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


FF15 had production problems even after release seeing as they had to revamp one of the later chapters because so many people hated it. Also they announced and eventually canceled multiple DLCs.

Edit: Also the time dog was definitely a later addition as when I played it at release you could only time travel once you got to the very end of the game.

muscles like this! has a new favorite as of 20:47 on Sep 21, 2020

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



Maxwell Lord posted:

The sheer dysfunction of Square Enix is kinda fascinating to me. They're a huge publisher, they own the two undisputed king franchises of the JRPG world, but every major FF-related thing since the merger has been prone to all sorts of chaos. I admire that the franchise keeps trying new things, but planning seems to be an issue.

FF16 doesn't really interest me, but I am pulling for it to be good. Taking Nomura away and putting Yoshi-P in charge of it is probably a good idea. Nomura doesn't have to have his attention split between Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts anymore, and Yoshi-P can just work the same magic here he's worked on FF16. They didn't announce FF16 to be part of some big multimedia project or sub-franchise or anything either, so hopefully this time around they've got their poo poo all together.

SubNat
Nov 27, 2008

Unrelated to Squarechat:
The fact that it's probably going to be over a decade from Skyrim releasing, until the next TES hits. (Because Bethesda has specified that they're doing Starfield first, then the next TES game. And they still haven't shown off anything about Starfield.)

Unless Microsoft end up stepping in and escalating production of it, but it's not like they can magic up a title overnight even if they wanted to. (Other than maybe Skyrim:Legendary Edition^2: Now with raytracing features rammed in, to update it for the Xbox series X/S+PC again.)
(For anyone not aware, Microsoft is finalizing a purchase of Zenimax, which means all of Bethesda will be under their ownership once it's finalized.)

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

1stGear posted:

Apparently only 7.1% of Hades players have the achievement for petting Cerberus 10 times and that's just completely loving unacceptable.

Do you have to pet each head 10 times ?

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Lol playing Mario 64 and I found a secret tunnel cool!

Then the game tells me the secret tunnel I took is a cheat and I have to start the race over again.

gently caress you game.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
Devs who put a scoring system in their game, that scores you based on your kill count AND allow you the ability to prematurely end spawns (destroy a spawner, capture a base, ends the fight when you kill a certain enemy) but don't give you any indication of how many kills you need for the highest rank? Those devs deserve to be teabagged by a particularly unwashed scrotum.

BattleSausage
Aug 14, 2003

I'm butter side up, baby.

Taco Defender

Inspector Gesicht posted:

There's the odd time you have to kill a machine again because it now drops a trophy, but you don't need an excuse to fight a Thunderjaw or Stormbird again.

The original Xenoblade had quests where you have to "Kill 20 Bedbugs", and Bedbugs killed prior to being given the quest don't count. I think the sequel improved upon this, but that title is far too Anime for my tastes.

The Secret World MMO was really bad about this. I finally quit after getting a mission to kill 10 blue bugs. I went down to the bug area and there were blue bugs and red bugs, so you had to fight both. At the end of the trail was the Queen bug, so you had a boss fight.

Great, I killed 10 blue bugs, gimme my reward. "Sure, just go kill 10 red bugs first"

Fine, go back kill 10 red bugs but since they're intermingled with blue bugs have to kill them too. Oh look, there's the Queen bug again. gently caress

"Fantastic, now go kill the Queen bug and I'll give you a reward!"

Uninstalled that poo poo never to look back again.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


BattleSausage posted:

The Secret World MMO was really bad about this. I finally quit after getting a mission to kill 10 blue bugs. I went down to the bug area and there were blue bugs and red bugs, so you had to fight both. At the end of the trail was the Queen bug, so you had a boss fight.

Great, I killed 10 blue bugs, gimme my reward. "Sure, just go kill 10 red bugs first"

Fine, go back kill 10 red bugs but since they're intermingled with blue bugs have to kill them too. Oh look, there's the Queen bug again. gently caress

"Fantastic, now go kill the Queen bug and I'll give you a reward!"

Uninstalled that poo poo never to look back again.

All quests with the Akab were garbage

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
A tangled skein of bad opinions, the hottest takes, and the the world's most misinformed nonsense. Do not engage with me, it's useless, and better yet, put me on ignore.

muscles like this! posted:

Edit: Also the time dog was definitely a later addition as when I played it at release you could only time travel once you got to the very end of the game.

What is different now? Can you use the dog to go backwards?

To contribute: Final Fantasy XIV and quests involving teleporting. Look, I've killed gods. We've saved the entire world. We have toppled nations. If you want someone to teleport to the other side of the world and fetch you a seashell, you can get a kid trying to pay for college to do it. Do you understand the power we hold, this ability to teleport at will? WE CAN TELEPORT AT WILL. This is not a power that should be used to fetch you a loving seashell.

credburn has a new favorite as of 00:05 on Sep 22, 2020

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
Only certain people have the ability to use aethrytes
:goonsay:

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

The Moon Monster posted:

Where did the whole "you only level up when you sleep" mechanic come from? It's also in such seminal hits as Oblivion and Moraff's Dungeons of the Unforgiven.

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

It's in a bunch of tabletop games

It's also a mechanic you can use to restrict player power in certain sections, think the basement of the temple in Eye of the Beholder II where you can't rest at all while you're down there.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Vandar posted:

FF13 got released, wasn't well liked, and ended up with two completely different sequels of it's own. FF Agito 13 ended up becoming FF Type-0 which got quickly forgotten.

FF Versus 13 ended up becoming FF15 and had basically everything changed from the original plans...and yet they still tried to make it into it's own universe like with FF13, with a movie and anime and poo poo.

It says a lot that the 'forgotten' parts of the whole project were probably the best ones. FFXIII-3 and Type-0 are well-liked among the people who actually played them.

The thing dragging those games down is that it's impossible to tell someone that they're good, because the reputation of the Fabula Nova Crystallis disaster precedes them. I finally turned around on the 7 remake after hearing someone say the Wait combat mode is largely based on FFXIII-3, it just took so long for somebody to say it because everyone is primed for a comparison to a XIII game to be a negative.

Riatsala
Nov 20, 2013

All Princesses are Tyrants

The rate at which you get achievement notifications in the Steam release of Control is goddamn ridiculous.

It doesn't just pop up when you complete an achievement, it pops up every time you progress 10% closer to completing one, and not only are there a lot of goddamn achievements, there are achievements that are just iterations of themselves, so you can't pull the trigger without getting YOU HAVE KILLED 10/50 ENEMIES YOU HAVE KILLED 10/100 ENEMIES YOU HAVE KILLED 3/10 ENEMIES WITH HEADSHOTS YOU HAVE FOUND 4/40 TAPE RECORDERS YOU HAVE FOUND 4/10 TAPE RECORDERS

First game in 15 years of Steam to get me to turn off the overlay, congrats.

... I still love Control, though.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

Riatsala posted:

The rate at which you get achievement notifications in the Steam release of Control is goddamn ridiculous.

It doesn't just pop up when you complete an achievement, it pops up every time you progress 10% closer to completing one, and not only are there a lot of goddamn achievements, there are achievements that are just iterations of themselves, so you can't pull the trigger without getting YOU HAVE KILLED 10/50 ENEMIES YOU HAVE KILLED 10/100 ENEMIES YOU HAVE KILLED 3/10 ENEMIES WITH HEADSHOTS YOU HAVE FOUND 4/40 TAPE RECORDERS YOU HAVE FOUND 4/10 TAPE RECORDERS

First game in 15 years of Steam to get me to turn off the overlay, congrats.

... I still love Control, though.

Seems like that has to be turned off on a per-game basis by the devs. Left 4 Dead used to do that too way back in the day... for the achievement where you have to kill a total of 50,000-some-odd zombies. Thankfully it was a mistake and they made it only pop up one time (the campaign finale cutscene) like it was intended to soon after.

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004

Inspector Gesicht posted:

There's the odd time you have to kill a machine again because it now drops a trophy, but you don't need an excuse to fight a Thunderjaw or Stormbird again.

The original Xenoblade had quests where you have to "Kill 20 Bedbugs", and Bedbugs killed prior to being given the quest don't count. I think the sequel improved upon this, but that title is far too Anime for my tastes.

Xenoblade had a lot of QOL issues, but one thing that was pretty neat involved collectable quests. The main character can basically see visions of the future, which is used as a combat mechanic as well as for plot stuff. It also shows up when you pick up certain collectables, if they're required for a quest you don't have yet, you'll get a vision of yourself completing the quest in the future. So then you know to hold onto Red Berries or whatever because they'll be required for a sidequest you haven't gotten yet.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Maxwell Lord posted:

The sheer dysfunction of Square Enix is kinda fascinating to me. They're a huge publisher, they own the two undisputed king franchises of the JRPG world, but every major FF-related thing since the merger has been prone to all sorts of chaos. I admire that the franchise keeps trying new things, but planning seems to be an issue.

Although FF14 was only a shitshow from release to 2011 and then they got Yoshi-P as the new producer and director and basically project-managed the entire team in 15-minute increments for like 2 years so that's been in a decent state since 2013. They put out expansions like clockwork every 2 years with the only delay being COVID now.

FF7Remake also managed to come out pretty well!

Little thing dragging FF7Remake down: the 'dressed to the nines' achievement.
Doing so requires you to get all three possible dresses for all three characters in the Wall Market sequence. Chances are you won't care about this on a first run through the game, but because the requirements for some dresses are close to exclusive for some others it means you need to replay a certain set of chapters a silly amount of times to get them all (and if the game didn't have a chapter skip nobody would ever do it). This is exacerbated by the fact that doing all the sidequests on Hard means having to replay that chapter as well, because it branches at that point.

It's a lot of doing the same one dungeon and then running around a town at the end of it.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


The worst part of Xenoblade, outside of it's extreme length and lacklustre final act, is the need to save-scum. When you kill an enemy they drop a chest. You have to save before opening this chest because 90% of the time it will be useless crap instead of a quest-time. Worse is when an entire train of rewards is blocked because you haven't picked up a Monkey Scrotum that only spawns 5% of the time out in the field.

Then there's all those items that can be found more easily by trading, only you won't know without a guide and sometimes these items are unavailable if you recruit the merchant. There's no reason why their stock should change except to gently caress with you.

jjack229
Feb 14, 2008
Articulate your needs. I'm here to listen.
Playing Resident Evil 2 remake (my first RE game) and just finished the first boss battle with G Tyrant. It is so many things that I dislike in a boss fight: kiting an enemy, can only damage the boss when it occasionally reveals a vulnerable spot, limited ammo, no feedback on the boss health remaining, and a character where sprinting is just a slightly faster walking. I find running from and occasionally taking pot shots at a boss with seemingly infinite health to be boring and frustrating, not exciting and scary like I imagine they were going for.

I'm otherwise enjoying the game. I remember watching a friend play one of them back when they first came out, so it is fun to actually try this iconic series.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012


Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.



Wedge Regret

Robert J. Omb posted:

Another (petty, little, personal) issue I have with XBox One over its predecessor how you swap batteries in the controller.

The new one is a standard slide cover, but the 360 controller let you slap those bad boys in like a clip into a gun.

This annoyed the hell out of me too because the 360 had a great set of rechargeable batteries for it that you could swap out in about two seconds since it just replaced the normal battery holder. The Xbox One also controller doesn’t seem to bring up the low battery message as quickly (I’ll usually notice the vibrations stop or sound in my headphones starts getting weird first).

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Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Your Gay Uncle posted:

Do you have to pet each head 10 times ?

The best boy only likes it when you pet his left head :3:

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